Halftime incident w/the coaching staff

[Guest JohnDenver]

I never said there were no bad guys, I said there are no heros.  Ramon was wrong no question about it but I want agree that the fan bears no responsibility in this and has the right to say whatever he wants, because ?????????

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No one, let me repeat that again, NO ONE has said anyone "has the right to say whatever he wants.." Ramon even falls into that category. He drops the F-bomb on national TV!

"WHAT THE F**K IS HE DOING?"

Bill didn't say anything NEAR what Ramon was saying about Hall.

He doesn't have the right to say anything he wants either. It is a big difference between shouting out to the staff that they have work to do (i.e. "out coached") and threatening to "kick their a$$" and having to be restrained.

Edited November 7, 2005 by JohnDenver

[jjpfootball]

No one, let me repeat that again, NO ONE has said anyone "has the right to say whatever he wants.." Ramon even falls into that category. He drops the F-bomb on national TV!

"WHAT THE F**K IS HE DOING?"

Bill didn't say anything NEAR what Ramon was saying about Hall.

He doesn't have the right to say anything he wants either. It is a big difference between shouting out to the staff that they have work to do (i.e. "out coached") and threatening to "kick their a$$" and having to be restrained.

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I never defended Ramon's action, I just didn't think the other party wasn't at fault and you have taken exception to that because he is your friend and you know him personally and that is OK. Am I not allowed to express my opinion.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I never defended Ramon's action, I just didn't think the other party wasn't at fault  and you have taken exception to that because he is your friend and you know him personally and that is OK.  Am I not allowed to express my opinion.

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You can, and did, express your opinion. We can *talk* about it too...

You haven't replied to my responses. We all take criticism at our work. My woman is in her medical rotations right now ... she hears ALL the time that is too young to be doctor and too young to know what she is talking about. Or how about the old knowledge that women are nurses and men are doctors? You don't think that young (looking) doctors don't face criticism on their performance? Should the young docs jump in the face of the family members? After all, they are paying the bills. When I asked Ms. JohnDenver about such criticism, she said "it is such a part of the job that I don't even hear it. "

... but I now know you aren't defending Ramon.

So, I am defending the right to tell the coaching staff that you expect more. It isn't right to curse, get in their faces, throw objects at them, put for sale signs in their yards, or pull out the voodoo doll. However, saying "WE EXPECT MORE" is completely acceptable. Saying, "we are being out coached!" is ok. Saying, "We are being F**KING out coached you worthless SOB. PULL your HEAD OUT OF YOUR ARSE YOU MORON." That is NOT acceptable ... nor did it happen like that.

We pay the bills. You are a player's parent... I assume. Do you have to make a $250 donation to sit in Section E? Do you have to buy your tickets? As a player's parent, I expect 100% support of your son's leader. It is a different story from a pure fan's perspective. It is a big investment to go to games... and we *DO* pay their salaries. We do have a say. Ignore it. Use it. Forget it. Whatever they do, I don't care. Just don't threaten me (anyone) when you don't like it. It wasn't a threatening matter..

[Guest JohnDenver]

One more thing before I talk myself purple in the face

From a book called "Games People Play" .. It explores "transactional analysis" for peoples' relationships.

There are three types of characters (child, parent and adult).

If you draw out the truth table for the transactions, you can see the SilverEagles transaction would work. If you draw out Ramon's actions, you can see it won't.

Ramon:

Child -> Child = success

Child -> Adult = failure

SilverEagle:

Adult -> Adult = success

Adult -> Child = failure

Expressing critcism is an adult conversation.

Expressing anger in a violent way is a child conversation.

When an adult (Ramon) acts like a child in response to an adult conversation, it fails. Everytime.

****

I will spare you... but the book is a good read. I suggest it to anyone who likes putting numbers/research to personalities.

[jjpfootball]

I am a player's parent and I am "WE" too. My donation was $500 plus the cost of four season tickets. I travel to all the games and appreciate the support of all the people on this board that support the team. Being a player's parent gives me a little insight into how a player and/or coach would react to the boo-ing while the offense is trying to run the 2 minute offense and score. There is a reason they don't allow individual on the field after the game and Saturday night was a good example of that. Players and coaches are high strung individuals and when they are doing their jobs they are focused on the task at hand. They are at war with the other team they last thing they need to hear is boo-ing from the home crowd and a "Fan" yelling at him that he is being out coached. He was on his way to the locker room to make adjustements, get his guys ready for the second half. The boo-ing was not directed at the players or Ramon but how in the world do you think any of them knew that. The offense couldn't figure out what they had done wrong, they hadn't run a play yet. Many things can be mistaken when all the facts and all things are not taken into consideration. I wish Ramon had just kept walking, but again, why say anything negative if you didn't expect a response. If he hadn't reponded would you then be saying he didn't care what the fans thought, he just ignored us. I sit through every home game with about 5 different individuals that do nothing but yell derogatory comments all night long about the players and coachs. The people directly behind me wanted to know who those people were, if we knew them, we didn't, they wanted to ask them to shut up so they could enjoy the game, he was a youth minister with a group of kids. Again, I am not condoning Ramon's actions but if you don't feel that some have not been stiring the pot all year, you would be wrong.

Edited November 7, 2005 by jjpfootball

[MootPoint]

How about everybody just take a step back for a second here? Let's just let RV, DD and RF work this out for now and, if you feel the need to have input, feel free to contact them. That is your prerogative. But, I don't think we need to be bickering amongst ourselves atm. Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

[KingDL1]

How about everybody just take a step back for a second here?    Let's just let RV, DD and RF work this out for now and, if you feel the need to have input, feel free to contact them.  That is your prerogative.  But, I don't think we need to be bickering amongst ourselves atm.  Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

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People are arguing the wrong points. No matter what a fan says a professional coach can not try to physically attack a fan.

Arguing what a fan can say or not is pointless, if a fan becomes belligerent have the police remove him.

Don't try to judge it there is nothing to judge, this is black & white.

Edited November 7, 2005 by KingDL1

[Monkeypox]

People complain about someone's work all the time, but the fact that it's a KNOWN FACTOR in coaching and playing sports make it especially hard to accept from those who show an inability to take it. I'd get death threats as a UIL ref, didn't matter if it was 7th grade girl's basketball games or varsity boys. DEATH THREATS from the stands, but I never let it get to me, because that COMES WITH THE TERRITORY. You can't take the criticism you get from coaching the worst offense in the country, then it's time to do yourself a favor and quit. Unfortunately, though, wherever you go there's gonna be someone to whom you're accountable, and a lot of times there's no law saying they have to be nice about it.

[Guest JohnDenver]

No doubt the booing must have been bad to hear on the field. However, fans are there to support more than just their players. We are there to support one another as well! If I see one of my fellow alumni getting a raw deal, it is with due cause that we boo at the situation. That is pretty obvious ... you don't have this type of bond to the people around you, so you were clearly in the right to focus souly on the field. I, did both, torn between booing and cheering. I did both. I saw the great PC run in the two minute offense. I saw the wasting of the clock (with a timeout) when we had 11 seconds left. I saw the missed field goal. I also saw Rick getting a raw deal... We *should* stick up for one another. I can assure you that if you were on your way of getting kicked out for undue reasons, the booing would make you feel better about it. I think you can understand that if you look at it from that direction. You are only seeing the lack of support for players. You arne't thinking of the support for the alumni (in general) by the attention this was drawing.... If the CSC people hadn't gone bonkers, this wouldn't have been an issue.

It was an honest question about the MGC dues and ticket sales. I know that player's parents do get some free tickets (since I have used them in the past), but I wasn't sure of how many or where. BTW, many of us make as many away games as you ... Another person and I drove to the Murph to see game 1. Two other people and I drove to Ruston to see that rout. If I could get a weekend sale, I may consider going to the game this weekend... it isn't a competition. I was just really curious.

I better hear a chorus of boos the next time my group gets the raw deal from the CSC group!

Edited November 8, 2005 by JohnDenver

[Got5onIt]

People complain about someone's work all the time, but the fact that it's a KNOWN FACTOR in coaching and playing sports make it especially hard to accept from those who show an inability to take it.  I'd get death threats as a UIL ref, didn't matter if it was 7th grade girl's basketball games or varsity boys.  DEATH THREATS from the stands, but I never let it get to me, because that COMES WITH THE TERRITORY.  You can't take the criticism you get from coaching the worst offense in the country, then it's time to do yourself a favor and quit.  Unfortunately, though, wherever you go there's gonna be someone to whom you're accountable, and a lot of times there's no law saying they have to be nice about it.

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I agree 100%.

[Cerebus]

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