Defending Dickey again

[gangrene]

Higher expectations could come simply from seeing how weak the SunBelt is and watching other teams who were in the same boat with us 10 years ago far surpass us.

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Yep.

[0footballfan0]

Stick with DD until we have more than one or 2 bad years.

I wonder if Stoops is going through this. He has several great years like UNT, and is having trouble this year....like UNT. But yet they still like him. I know SBC titles are not National Titles, but I am proud of the Mean Green for what they have done thanks to DD.

I keep telling myself I will not talk about the DD debate. Sorry, I know it's old.

The good thing is we all have a common goal, but we just think differently on how to get there.

Edited October 26, 2005 by 0footballfan0

[emmitt01]

Higher expectations could come simply from seeing how weak the SunBelt is and watching other teams who were in the same boat with us 10 years ago far surpass us.

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Fair enough, but your argument refuses to acknowledge the exact point I was making. 10 years ago we had abysmal support from the administration, abysmal leadership in the athletic department and were just coming back to 1A (Or did you know all of this?)

Furthermore, name ONE team that 10 years ago was in the same boat as us and doesn't have superior facilities, fan support, monetary support and/or a winning tradition. Just one. Oh yeah, and explain how Dickey is responsible for this.

Edited October 26, 2005 by emmitt01

[Rudy]

This is directed at both, the remove dd and support dd peole on the board. I, and everyone here agree, we have improved leaps and bounds in attendance, conference domination, exposure, bowls, etc. However, at what point to we increase our level of expectations?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Maybe Coach Kenny Evans needs to change his call some from Fake Lonnie Finch to something else.

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Huh?

[DeepGreen]

I have to weigh in on this. The Sun Belt is not exactly the "premier" conference in the country, but it's the conference we are now affiliated with. Do I want to move up to a better conference? You bet. But there are no other conferences that have openings that we could join. And Independent is not an option! The WAC is not where we need to be. Is it better than the SBC? Sure. But just like the Big West days, we can't afford the travel. I'd rather take the travel money savings and pay it to the assistant coaches who are keepers. The Mountain West? Only if they are desparately looking for a travel partner for TCU. Otherwise, we are not worthy. Yet.

CUSA has no openings that I know of. So what we have to do is make the best of the SBC. As someone else pointed out, North Texas needs to build our fan base so that we can average 25-30,000 at our home games, REGARDLESS OF OUR RECORD OR WHETHER OR NOT WE AGREE ON THE CURRENT COACHING SITUATION. People, we have to show these other conferences that we support North Texas football, PERIOD! Only then will another conference will come calling.

[gangrene]

Everybody is entitled to their opinion and I respect that but man I just can't figure out why we are so content on dominating the Sun Belt.  Seriously?  I mean come on guys, how do you seriously complain on one hand that we can't get anyone in the stands and then on the other be happy that we dominate the Sun Belt? 

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From what I have been reading lately, I have come to the conclusion that some of the "long-time" supporters are the ones who are most content with the SBC domination. I think it's sort of like that old story about how some people had to walk 5 miles to school, uphill in the freezing snow. Then, they suddenly got a ride. Even if that ride was in the back of open-bed pick-up truck, it's better than walking.

UNT football was walking 20 years ago and now we're riding in the back of that pick-up truck. For those that never knew anything else, they are perfectly happy and content. But some of us have ridden in a Mercedes with heated seats and the idea of freezing our asses off in the back of that truck just doesn't seem too appealing anymore.

[emmitt01]

But some of us have ridden in a Mercedes with heated seats and the idea of freezing our asses off in the back of that truck just doesn't seem too appealing anymore.

What school were you a fan of during those "mercedes" days? Couldn't have been North Texas, unless of course you are talking about the last 4 years of our history. If that's the case then DICKEY was the coach during those years and you, more than any of us, should understand why one down year does not mean DD loses his job. Mercedes with heated seats? Were you a USC fan last year? Did you just come from Southlake Carroll High school? Huh?

Look, we'd all like to be in CUSA dominating it and getting billions of dollars in revenue. All that some of us with "lowered expectations" (cue music) ask is that you understand where we are coming from when you talk about where we should go.

[Stan R]

At the best under Dickey we're talking maybe a used Buick Park Avenue with a salvaged title..

[eulesseagle]

Gangrene----

How can you be serious about your comment of "contentment" for the long time supporters of the program?????

1. I do not know one poster on this board who would like to stay in the SBC.

2. I do not know one D-1 conference who is taking applications for their respective conference......not unless you do??

Sooooooo, if there are no conference shake ups presently and nobody taking applications then what should UNT do???????

Answer: Do the best we can in the conference that we are in!!! If you call that contentment then that is what it is!!!

We all respect everyone's frustration about this year and being in the SBC but let us not get down on the ones who graduated 20+ years ago. Heck, we have more personal history through the decades of experience and frustration to pull from than recent grads who have not been through this before.

[FirefightnRick]

That said would someone research how many

victories we have against 1A teams with winning records in the last

7 years.

ANSWER: 7

New Mexico State(7-5) in 2002

Cincinnati who finished their regular season (7-6) in 2002, but ended (7-7) with the loss to us.

MTSU(8-3) in 2001

Texas Tech(6-5) in 1999

Boise St.(10-3) in 1999

Boise St.(6-5) in 1998

Nevada(6-5) in 1998

Interestingly, the Tech team we also beat in 1997 under Simon finished 6-5 also.

Rick

Edited October 26, 2005 by FirefightnRick

[Stan R]

Note to RV... If we are going to schedule slaughter games, why not pick Texas Tech again? I'd enjoy watching the games and they'd love to be 1 up in the all time series which is right now tied I believe at 4-4.

[UNTLifer]

I'm a long term supporter of the program, and I am not upset with being in the SBC. I am upset with the attitude DD has and has had for his entire tenure at North Texas. We should be continually improving. Our fanbase, alumni, students and others, is not at the point to where we can expect them to stay loyal through down years. The new, non-diehard fans see this as the return to where we were and stop coming, which we can't afford to happen at this time, and DD's attitude isn't bringing any new fans to Fouts.

[UNTSIG]

Emmitt- if this program was truly turned around and this was an off year, then I would be ok with Dickey. However this is where I disagree. I don't think that DD has turned this program around, I think that us being in the Sun Belt has done more than anything. IF DD was so great, then why was his record before joining the Sun Belt similar to all the other head coaches that we have had in this program. It was not until we joined the Sun Belt that we "started turning it around." To me, it just seems logical to realize that our success has come from being in the Sun Belt, not from our coach. I personally believe that if we started this trek years ago without Dickey, we would be better off today than what we are. I think 5 years down the line from now, if we still have Dickey...we are still going to be a sub par, non mid-major program. We need a coach to take us to the next level and I don't think Dickey is the guy...

[Michael Scott]

Good point Sig - why do people fail to see the Sunbelt corrolation?

Does the fact that Temple could probably walk in and win our league not bother anyone? Does the fact that he likely champ lost to a I-AA school not bother anyone? does the fact that our league champion may have a losing or .500 record for the 2nd time in 5 years not bother anyone?

Its not progress on the field - its just finding other crap schools to play with us.

Not a perfect example: If the Tampa Devil Rays joined AAA and started winning with the same manager and team, does that mean they are better than when they were in MLB?

[UNTFan23]

MS, you're not the only one concerned about a team that lost to a 1AA representing the conference in the bowl game this season.

[medpilot21]

Emmitt- if this program was truly turned around and this was an off year, then I would be ok with Dickey.  However this is where I disagree.  I don't think that DD has turned this program around, I think that us being in the Sun Belt has done more than anything.  IF DD was so great, then why was his record before joining the Sun Belt similar to all the other head coaches that we have had in this program.  It was not until we joined the Sun Belt that we "started turning it around."  To me, it just seems logical to realize that our success has come from being in the Sun Belt, not from our coach.  I personally believe that if we started this trek years ago without Dickey, we would be better off today than what we are.  I think 5 years down the line from now, if we still have Dickey...we are still going to be a sub par, non mid-major program.  We need a coach to take us to the next level and I don't think Dickey is the guy...

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Not sure I follow your logic here. You dont think Dickey has turned the program around? We went to our first Bowl game in fifty years, and that could have been a fluke. We go to three more bowl games in successive seasons, and win one?...that is no fluke. You say it is the conference we are in that defines our success?...possible, but we didnt go to a bowl game in the Big West...which was no better than you say the Sunbelt is now? The coaches before Dickey only accomplished success in the Southland conference. I cant speak for everyone, but I certainly think the Division-IA jump was a good one. It takes time to build a team and a program, and Darrell Dickey has done that. I didnt hear anyone complaining about how he is incapable of taking this team to the next level when we hung 50 plus points on Baylor, or when we beat Texas Tech twice? This sounds a lot like the "what has he done for us lately" moan.

I know it is difficult to handle losing the way we are, but it happens to every program in college football. If Bob Stoops and Joe Paterno can have a bad seasons with THEIR recruits at THAT talent level, then I have to believe it is possible for Darrell Dickey to have one. If your biggest complaint is the OOC record?, then you have a valid point. But that is not how I judge the success of my UNT football team? My simple view is "Do we win games?...no matter who we play?" Everyone has their opinion, of course... but if you honestly believe any coach could have come in here years ago and we are better off than we are now?, you may be a little off center with your thinking. Coaches before DD tried it and failed, and DD has the skins on the wall. Rick Villareal is very good at what he does, and he believes Darrell Dickey is the Coach to lead this program. I trust RV...period. In my book, the proof lies with what people outside the program think as well as the fans. Darrell Dickey is the four-time reigning CONFERENCE Coach of the Year. Whether or not you think he is the right coach for North Texas is another argument, but the other coaches in this conference think he is the best among them. That says something clear to me. I dont compare apples to oranges. OOC losses bite....no argument there. But DD coached teams have won this conference, and have given this team national exposure. North Texas was nowhere close to signing a talent like Michael Ruff without Darrell Dickey. Regardless of what happened to the kid afterwards, I talked to him at a Fouts field practice, and he said he had other offers from bigger colleges. Dont fool yourself into thinking DD inst doing everything in his power to recruit talent and win. This is just one of those unfortunate years we all live thorugh... However, we get to watch some young players grow into themselves. The way we watched Scott Hall and Cody Spencer become the players they were.

Instead of doubting a coach who has shown you what a championship feels like,(yes, even if you believe the sunbelt is that bad) be patient enough to be a realist with the rest of us. Partly becuase you have no choice...DD is here to stay, but also becuase you have faith in the assistant coaches. They recruit also, and we have to trust that the talent they have brought in for us will pay off. We said the same thing with the players from 2001, and they certainly came together. Darrell Dickey does know what he is doing. There are too many signs, and too much talent not to be successful. Give him the time to teach these guys how to be champions, and they will be...

GMG!!!

[MootPoint]

Note to RV... If we are going to schedule slaughter games, why not pick Texas Tech again? I'd enjoy watching the games and they'd love to be 1 up in the all time series which is right now tied I believe at 4-4.

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They're not too keen on playing us

Edited October 26, 2005 by MootPoint

[VideoEagle]

First about Tech, Mike Leach has said he will not play us again for a long, long time.

Secondly about the SBC being the reason for our success, I should point out that we're playing many of the same teams we played in the Big West, but not we starting winning games against teams we lost to before.

[UNTLifer]

You say it is the conference we are in that defines our success?...possible, but we didnt go to a bowl game in the Big West

Correct, and what bowl did the winner of the Big West go to? The Boise Bowl? Where is the Big West conference now? The past coaches at North Texas didn't go to a bowl because there weren't as many bowls in those days and we didn't have the automatic tie-in.

It takes time to build a team and a program, and Darrell Dickey has done that.

Look at DD's record prior to joining the SBC. I am glad to be in the SBC and like what it has done for us by winning conference, but let's look at the competition. The best team in the Sun Belt is currently ranked #119 by the Sagarin ratings. BTW, there are 117 D1A teams.

But that is not how I judge the success of my UNT football team? My simple view is "Do we win games?...no matter who we play?" Everyone has their opinion, of course... but if you honestly believe any coach could have come in here years ago and we are better off than we are now?, you may be a little off center with your thinking.

Do we win? Yes, against the sister's of the poor. The teams we should be on par with, Tulsa, La. Tech, etc... are hammering us.

Rick Villareal is very good at what he does, and he believes Darrell Dickey is the Coach to lead this program.

RV is very good at what he does, I agree, but I'm not sure if he totally believes in DD, or that he is the one deciding who leads the team.

North Texas was nowhere close to signing a talent like Michael Ruff without Darrell Dickey.

You don't think grades were an issue with him not signing with a "big" school and NT taking a chance on him?