Defending Dickey again

[stebo]

My thoughts on Dickey have run the gamut over the years. People on this board know that. But I think he has earned the right to have a down year. If things don't get straightened around by next year then I will be on board for getting a new guy in here to try and do something different - but for now - I will stick it out with Dickey. I think the difference between now and back when we sucked 7-8 years ago was sense of urgency. I don't feel it right now. But all mid-majors go through this for a year. UCF went winless last year. UTEP was terrible for decades with the exception of one trip to the Boise Bowl. Every peer school in the Belt has had to endure losing seasons for the lst decade. We have had success... and enough to really get our facilities jump started. I never thought I would see the type of growth that we have seen over the last few years - and winning football games has done that for us. It is never easy to accept that we are going to be down for the year but that is what I went into this season with - that acceptance. The wins we have had are the wins I thought we would have going into the year. I was hoping for a split on the Tulsa/La Tech games... but we lost em both... oh well. The kids are learning out there and we will be back. Next year we will either be back to our dominance or we will be looking for a new coach - which is exciting in itself. Either way we will be winners. But for this season, we need to look for positives and suck it up when it comes to the negative stuff. So how about we just sit back, enjoy that it is still football season - and cheer our team whether they win or lose (for once)... I have adopted a 2nd team for the year and am hoping that they (TCU) wins the MWC and the bowl that they make it to)... perhaps we should all just chill out a little on the Dickey bashing and give the man a chance to rebuild. Yes, he shouldn't have let us get into the place where we are forced to rebuild in the first place - but he did and now I want to see him take back control and move us back to the top of the mid majors. Going into the season we were a pre-season #6 in the top 25 Mid Major poll... In the past, this would have been unthinkable. We had coverage in every major magazine and newspaper in the country including a COVER story in USA Today. I think that Dickey should get a pass on this year's demise... his positives have outweighed his negatives over the last few years. Lets not be one of those schools that sbandons their team because they cannot win some games for a year. Be the fan that sticks around and can say "I was there when everyone else had jumped ship"... a few of us have been through much worse then this, 2-4 after 6 games is bad but it has been worse, trust me. Continue to talk up the program, drag friends out to the games, and lets accomplish something this season despite the play in the field, let's average over 17-18K even with a losing season. That is the type of thing that will get CUSA's attention when they add a team (which may be coming up pretty soon if Tulane drops its football program)...

[Cerebus]

Continue to talk up the program, drag friends out to the games, and lets accomplish something this season despite the play in the field, let's average over 17-18K even with a losing season.

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No matter what happens on the field, it's not a down year in tailgating.

At the Troy game I saw JohnDenver one man a keg and eat a whole live chicken... worth the price of admission alone.

I do agree that Coach Dickey has built up goodwill with his superiors, and there is going to be little to no pressure applied for having one down year. If that continues to next year, and especially if we don't win the SMU game, that could all change very quickly.

But that is just how things work in the coaching world. Go out to the game, support the coach if you think he can turn it around, and if you don't think he can then at least support the players.

This is Patrick Cobbs last year, he deserves to play in front of a crowd.

[Green92]

This is Patrick Cobbs last year, he deserves to play in front of a crowd.

That's a great point. Also, not showing up to the games is not the best way to accomplish our goals. If we start averaging 7K per game we are going to lose all hope of a stadium. Keep coming and making noise. The kids and the school deserve it whether or not you like the coaches.

[GreenFlag]

Good post Stebo and I agree with the one year "get out of jail free card." I have a close friend who joined the Mean Green Club this year and after the Troy game was thinking that by not showing up to anymore games and recinding his Mean Green Club membership would be "sending a clear message." I disagreed with him and pointed out that few fans in the stands supporting a team with a poor record was not nearly as powerful as a ton of fans in the stands supporting that same team with a poor record. He agreed.

Lots of support (by showing up) puts positive pressure on the program to succeed. Don't get me wrong-I think there is a multitude of problems right now. I appreciate the hard work the coaches and players put in but this just is not cutting it. What is the real problem? I don't know for sure but I have a pretty good idea. I know for sure that what really matters are the fans. A packed Fouts Field will get us to where we all want to be.

We would be in CUSA right now with better attendance, not a better team. Kinda the chicken and the egg thing. The coaches may slip, the AD may slip, the BOR might slip but we as fans cannot.

We must show up to the games. More fans=more better things for good ole UNT.

If you want the program to succeed then show up. If you don't like what is going on then complain appropriately-but still show up.

So far this year the fans are the only one's pulling their weight around here. I was expecting terrible attendance at the Troy game but the UNT faithful got it done. OK, I give the AD some slack because of what he is up against.

Coaches, BOR, Presidents, AD's come and go. Some players come and go and some come back as fans. Some players parents come and go and some keep coming back as fans. I just comes down to this-the fans matter most. You can always go out and get the other components but it is us-the fans-who ultimately matter. Adler is spot on about the players and coaches acknowledging the fans. It says so much about what is broke around here.

[Stan R]

absolutely true. The only things we can really control anyway are attendance and montetary giving. If we average 17K this year, I will be very, very happy with that even with a terrible losing season.

[Stan R]

Somebody queue "Pomp and Circumstance" (graduation song)...

[IslandEagle]

Somebody queue "Pomp and Circumstance" (graduation song)... 

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Good post, Steve. We fans actually control the destiny of our program much more than either the coach, AD, or even players do. Have 1-AA attendence and we will end up back there. Have true 1-A attendence and we will move up ultimately. UTEP is a good example. UTEP had the worst "cumulative" 15-year record on any 1-A school just a couple of years back, but CUSA took them, because even with their record they put more fans in the stands, by far, than we did.

Like you, I say give Darrell his down year, and then see what happens next year. If we get a repeat, then I say it is time to start tossing the verbal bricks.

[eulesseagle]

Got to agree.

1. You can not get rid of a coach when he has brought 4 straight SBC championshios to UNT in the last 4 years.

2. So what if he ties for 2nd this year?? you still can not fire him.

3. 13 new starters and an offensive line that can not open holes for our RB's.

4. 1 Freshman QB when he "chunks the pumpkin" down field (most of the time) it is up for grabs.

5. No pass protection from the O-Line.

6. Well.....#3, #4 & #5 kinda limits the plays the OC can call.

College Football is a business and look what DD has done (yep another rehash) and the way that the BOR will look at it:

1. 4 SBC championships = $$$$

2. Increased attendance = $$$$

3. FB success = success in other sports arenas at UNT = $$$$

We have all got to agree to disagree on some issues EXCEPT the issue of what is best for the athletic programs for UNT and how we can move up out of the SBC.

Conference Realignments are NOT over but UNT has to position itself in the best possible light for other conferences to seriously offer us a "spot."

1. DD is doing that with 4 SBC championships.

2. JJ is rebuilding the BB program.

3. Women's soccer is ranked.

We have to agree that we do not know what happened behind the closed doors of some of the conferences that selected teams with "up-start" programs or those that have won 1 FB game a year for years to get into better conferences than what we are in. We can only imagine & I am not $tarting any rumor$.

UNT has always been the "step-child" in the DFW area. That means the BOR/Coaching staffs have to work harder than other schools that have alumus that contribute heavily annually.

Let us all not be too hasty to judge what is happening to the FB team this year. Step back, crack open a cool one and look at the big picture of where UNT ATHLETICS are going and how this will be the springboard for better conference realignments.

[GreenFlag]

We have to agree that we do not know what happened behind the closed doors of some of the conferences that selected teams with "up-start" programs or those that have won 1 FB game a year for years to get into better conferences than what we are in. We can only imagine & I am not $tarting any rumor$.

I think I have a pretty good idea but I don't agree with you. It was the fan$ $upport. Fan$ in the $tand$ speak$ volume$ to conference$. $o, in $ummation, fan$ $upport i$ what drive$ the bu$. UTEP had it, we didn't. I was excited about our CU$A chances until UTEP came into the picture, then I knew our $hip was $unk. I don't think it wa$ anything more than ju$t that.

And another thing-The ant$ in France $tay mainly on the plant$.

Edited October 25, 2005 by GreenFlag

[MeanGreenPOP]

Great Thread and great post Steve...this is what I've been trying to tell everyone...you have to give the man time to right the ship..there are alot of programs that would give one in year in 5 to go to 4 bowl games in a row

[untbowler]

I am playing devil's advocate here but we are so enamored with DD last 4 years, but do we choose to forget about the 3 prior years to that. He got a great recruiting class in and went on a roll and last year's class and this year's class maybe just as good, but why the tunnel vision on just the previous 4 years?

I am may not like DD at the moment but you can look at my prior responses I do not think he should fired now either, he has earned a grace period, but at what costs to progress.

We should be thinking reload (IMO means right back next year), rather than rebuild (2-3 year process).

Just my .005 cent.

[shaft]

It’s a bad idea to support the team because you expect to get a better conference out of it, because that might not happen. Support the team because you like North Texas college football.

Too many people on this board have unrealistic expectations about this program. The coaches need to worry about regrouping and having a winning season.

The athletic dept. needs to worry about keeping up with SMU, Baylor, Tulsa, LA Tech, TCU, and the rest of the Belt.

Fans need to worry about getting to the game on time.

[gangrene]

But I think he has earned the right to have a down year.  If things don't get straightened around by next year then I will be on board for getting a new guy in here to try and do something different - but for now - I will stick it out with Dickey. 

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I have to agree with your post. I shudder to think of what would happen should we get a replacement that does even worse. DD has had some success (tremendous success if you just look at SBC games only) and I'm willing to give him at least one more year. I'm not happy about these humiliating and embarrassing OOC losses but I'm sure, as bad as it is now...it could be worse. I will certainly not tolerate any such losses to SBC opponents because, despite what some had predicted in the pre-season, the other SBC teams have not shown drastic improvements in their OOC contests either.

I do agree that Coach Dickey has built up goodwill with his superiors, and there is going to be little to no pressure applied for having one down year.  If that continues to next year, and especially if we don't win the SMU game, that could all change very quickly.

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Right now that SMU game scares the hell out of me. I've been talking smack to SMU alumns for the last 3 years...

[UNTSIG]

Forgive me...I am still not sure where the "down" part in this "down year" is....Besides losing to Troy, what's the difference? We get blown out in OOC games and don't compete against teams that we should compete against. When in the last 4 years have we done that, the lone exception being Baylor! I just don't see how we have ever been a mid major, ever! A lot of the problems I see come from the fact that we don/t know what we want. Are you happy with winning the Belt every year and then getting blown out for the rest of the season? We will never, ever build a program that way. We are like the Rodney Dangerfield's of college football. People have heard of us but we never will get any respect.

[SilverEagle]

Without picking anyone's particular quote out to use, I will offer this.

I believe that our fan base has grown MAINLY because of "gomeangreen.com" and the activities of the greenbackers and other similar groups of spirited fans. The gameday experience is what keeps bringing people back. Not our notoriety( ) as "king of the dip$hits" aka the sunbelt.

So, it's my belief that our fan base has grown "in spite" of DD, not because of him.

[El Paso Eagle]

College Football is a business and look what DD has done (yep another rehash) and the way that the BOR will look at it:

1. 4 SBC championships = $$$$ 2.  Increased attendance = $$$$

3.  FB success = success in other sports arenas at UNT = $$$$

Conference Realignments are NOT over but UNT has to position itself in the best possible light for other conferences to seriously offer us a "spot." 

1.  DD is doing that with 4 SBC championships.2.  JJ is rebuilding the BB program.

3.  Women's soccer is ranked.

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I hate to rain on the party, but until we realize that the 4 Sun Belt crowns are more than off-set by our OOC performance we are kidding ourselves. Another poster mentioned the crowds at UTEP, and regardless of why the people come to the Miners games, C-USA saw the potential of 40K to 50K there (and having Mike Price did not hurt). UTEP also has a very good average attendance in B-Ball. North Texas needs to find a way to build a following in the Metroplex, and no it won’t happen by saying “real fans should support”. We need to understand the entertainment dollar has a hell of a lot of competition in the D/FW area. I’m not saying to switch to a Texas Tech style program but we need to put a product on the field that will attract fans because our Sun Belt schedule is not going to wow over the causal fan.

[Coffee and TV]

Forgive me...I am still not sure where the "down" part in this "down year" is....Besides losing to Troy, what's the difference?  We get blown out in OOC games and don't compete against teams that we should compete against.  When in the last 4 years have we done that, the lone exception being Baylor!  I just don't see how we have ever been a mid major, ever!  A lot of the problems I see come from the fact that we don/t know what we want.  Are you happy with winning the Belt every year and then getting blown out for the rest of the season?  We will never, ever build a program that way.  We are like the Rodney Dangerfield's of college football.  People have heard of us but we never will get any respect.

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it's short, and a bit of a ramble, but you've pretty much summed up exactly what everyone who wants Dickey gone is thinking. This isn't one bad year because we didn't win the Sun Belt, this is a contiuation of lackluster performances against OOC teams.

[Cerebus]

I hate to rain on the party, but until we realize that the 4 Sun Belt crowns are more than off-set by our OOC performance we are kidding ourselves.

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I hate to rain on the pity party, but the AC and Eagle Point are only there because of what that success did to our fan base and leadership. Before those wins, no one cared enough to get on a message board and cry when we lost.

[Coffee and TV]

I hate to rain on the pity party, but the AC and Eagle Point are only there because of what that success did to our fan base and leadership.  Before those wins, no one cared enough to get on a message board and cry when we lost.

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Wasn't the AC approved in 2001 by SGA when we were the laughingstock of college football with our 5-6 NOB bid?

[eulesseagle]

El Paso Eagle --

Good points but it is difficult to compare UNT to UTEP.

1. El Paso is, literally, not close to anything and UTEP has a great deal of the entertainment dollars (for the public and students) wrapped up with the University athletic programs. Of course UTEP will have more of an average attendance than UNT even though it has a population of 585,000 people.

2. Mike Price was a Big steal just like Frank Solich (sp) was for (cant remember if it was Ohio or Miami of Ohio) and Haden Fry was to NTSU.

3. UNT has to compete with a metroplex population of about 5 1/2 million people.

As far back as the 1960's the UNT student population was pretty much apathetic to UNT sports. I will have to agree with you that the Administration MUST be more PRO-ACTIVE in getting people interested in attending the games.

4. It would be difficult to blame DD for the lack of attendance. I would bet that is not in his job description to do the promotional aspect of attendance. If you want to terminate someone then terminate the UNT promotional department and get someone in there who knows what to do. A group of graduate promotional students could do an excellent job in El Paso but could be Titantic bound in the Metroplex.

5. I would like to see things change too. I would like to see UNT out of the SBC, I would like for us to win more OOC games, I would like to see more attendance at all athletic games, I would like to see a new stadium.....I would like to see the same things as everyone else BUT having immediate "knee-jerk" reactions is not the answer. We saw what happened to all the short term coaches we have had. DD may not be the answer but he has brought us further than most of the other coaches that we have had. He just needs to get over the OOC hump.

[El Paso Eagle]

El Paso Eagle --

Good points but it is difficult to compare UNT to UTEP.

4.  It would be difficult to blame DD for the lack of attendance.  I would bet that is not in his job description to do the promotional aspect of attendance.  If you want to terminate someone then terminate the UNT promotional department and get someone in there who knows what to do.  A group of graduate promotional students could do an excellent job in El Paso but could be Titantic bound in the Metroplex.

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This is one of the biggest mistakes NT has made – DD should have incentives based on attendance. Hell go back and add them in today – they only way he gets paid is if attendance goes up and then the extra revenue is what is used to pay him. Even if it’s not in his job description he should make a better effort at growing the fan base. If he (DD) does not want to go out and be “fan-friendly” then he should at the least stop making his verbal jabs at the fans.

[Cerebus]

Wasn't the AC approved in 2001 by SGA when we were the laughingstock of college football with our 5-6 NOB bid?

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No.

Are you thinking of the Rec Center?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Good post, Stebo. Dickey's brought plenty of success here. I think all you've got to do is look 90 miles north of the border at what OU's going through to realize that even $3 million coaches with lots of OOC wins can have problems when he is starting young players all around. I doubt the Sooners are trying to throw their coach overboard, and we shouldn't be either.

But, if we're still sitting at this point next year...that's a different story.

[flyonthewall]

Maybe Coach Kenny Evans needs to change his call some from Fake Lonnie Finch to something else.

[Michael Scott]

4.  It would be difficult to blame DD for the lack of attendance.  I would bet that is not in his job description to do the promotional aspect of attendance.  If you want to terminate someone then terminate the UNT promotional department and get someone in there who knows what to do.  A group of graduate promotional students could do an excellent job in El Paso but could be Titantic bound in the Metroplex.

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Almost every college uses graduate students in their promotions department. Should UNT throw some more money into promotions - probably, but they've shown it not gonna happen anytime soon. The students are exposed to what is going on - but these students are in a culture of apathy and won't be changing their minds soon. The best course is hit them up at orientation and eagle camp, which seems to be happening. This is a process that will take years and has already come a long way since my time there in the 90s.

If the Cowboys were playing and you didn't care, but then found out you could get a t-shirt if you went, would it change your mind? Not the best example since it is not free - but be realistic. It seems like everyone thinks a few posters and shirts turn things around.

And Dickey is responsible for the fans - it is all interconnected. All of the coaches in this state, even the socially awkward Mike Leach, make an effort to do this. Regardless of your opinion on either side, Dickey could have 10-20,000 people on his side for a year like this instead of a faction of the fan base that has openly resented him for 4 years gaining fuel.