Question

shaft · October 24, 2005

How would a big coaching change at the end of the season help the program?

Are we really to the point as a program that we can say win the conference or your out? It seems to be these unrealistic expectations can only hurt the program.

Sure the OOC record blows, but when was this golden era of North Texas football when we were winning conference games and OOC games? People on this board need to dial back in to reality.

flyonthewall · October 24, 2005

Reality

1. We do not make our kids go to class.

2. Our team has no discipline. (penalties)

3. After 4 straight conf. championships you reload, not rebuild.

4. Recruiting has been terrible.

5. The coach is not good with donors.

6. The coach bashes supporters.

7. New athletic center, turf, weightroom, academic center, video equipment, offices for coaches, state of the art meeting rooms = bad recruiting, bad grades

8. The teams record.

9. The teams record at the end of the year.

10. 85-0 score in Baton Rouge

11. No progress in other areas than just win loss; ie grades, discipline

12. Athletic director works butt of to get tools, football coaches don't use tools.

Please refute any of these points, Please!!!!!!!

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 24, 2005

you can't refute what is true....very good points. What is so funny about Dickey, is that this team really isn't that much differenet than the other years, its just now we are not winning those games anymore.

Got5onIt · October 24, 2005

A change, IMO, would show NT's seriousness in keeping the football program moving to a high level. The Belt has a history of mediocrity in Division 1A and now NT is going to finish near the bottom after 4 straight championships.

DD "haters" aren't chanting win the Belt, just keep the team/program moving in a positive direction. Now I ask you, what have you seen so far this year that shows continued improvement? What does losing the first four games last year, then steam rolling through the Belt, and finally getting smashed in the NO Bowl tell you about DD?

NT doesn't have to spend half a million dollars on a coach. It would be nice as NT could go after a reputable person.

The current staff is not worth what NT is paying them, PERIOD. Justifying what NT pays to our head coaches with "well, that's all we can afford so we must be happy" is flat out B#LL $Hit.

Edited October 24, 2005 by Got5onIt

flyonthewall · October 24, 2005

Regardless of what other coaches make. How many people on this board actually make more than the 220 base that DD Makes. Plus all of the performance incentives his package is well over 300k.

I always tell people that I work with, if you don't like what you make here, you can always go get another job.

Who is hiring Darrel Dickey?

Money paid to coaches is not an excuse, especially when you are being compensated as much as a small cap publicly traded company CEO.

IMO

meangreendork · October 24, 2005

shaft- you gotta look deeper than just the win/loss record.

You can look at a point as shallow as the playcalling to see the problem with mediocrity and lack of a desire to take risks and make a change.

Look at the Tulsa game- the team was obviously not going to win. If I'm down by a hefty margin, I'm going to open my playbook up and start throwing different plays at them. Sure, they may not work, but it's obvious my bread and butter wasn't working either, so why not?

At this point in the year, I still want the coaches to win out. Frankly, I don't care how they do it. It can be my 50 points or by 1. But if for some reason, there are losses during the remainder of the season, I want to be able to watch the game tape and say, "Well, the coaches gave it all they had and threw the playbook at the other team."

If the team goes to Baton Rouge and gets slammed 85-0, I'll hate the loss, but if I see a coach or a player, I'd like to be able to say, "Tough loss, but you really gave it all out there, sweat and blood."

mad dog · October 24, 2005

2. Our team has no discipline. (penalties)
3. After 4 straight conf. championships you reload, not rebuild.
5. The coach is not good with donors.
8. The teams record.
9. The teams record at the end of the year.
11. No progress in other areas than just win loss; ie grades, discipline
←

I can see how you could make a solid case for these.

1. We do not make our kids go to class.

Not really sure where you get this idea. If you're talking about Joey Byerly and T.J. Raymond's ineligibility, I'd like to point out that T.J.s ineligibily was grade based, not attendance based. I'm not sure if you say that the team doesn't ask their kids to go to class based on one guy. In fact, I remember Rick V saying that we had the highest new academic rating in Texas.

4. Recruiting has been terrible.
7. New athletic center, turf, weightroom, academic center, video equipment, offices for coaches, state of the art meeting rooms = bad recruiting, bad grades
12. Athletic director works butt of to get tools, football coaches don't use tools.

These are all really related. We've had the AC for one year. There are still tons of recruits that don't even know about it. Most are surprised to see how nice it is. Personally, I'd be willing to give recruiting another year to see results. And, really, you can only accurately start to judge a class after a few years. Hard to judge washouts after a year.

6. The coach bashes supporters.

Man, this whole thing is blown out of proportion. A few offhand remarks constitute "bashing?" I don't know... I'd say the stuff said about Coach Dickey on this board constitutes bashing far more than anything he's said in public about a few fans.

10. 85-0 score in Baton Rouge

As right as you may be about this score, it hasn't happened. Yet.

untbowler · October 24, 2005

I think everypne that is ticked off at DD is b/c of the way we lose.

I think we could possibly except a blow-out loss to a Top10 team and amybe a 7=10 loss to a team,like Tulsa, Kansas St., or La. Tech but instead our coaches/players go out and lay 3 straight OOC eggs and that is what has riledup the fans. We were not even competitive in any of the games, when we should have won or playe these teams to the wire.

After 6 games there appears to be little improvement anywhere on the team.

The lone bright spot has been PC getting to 100 yds in most of the games and some of the Defensive players stepping up.

Again it is not the losses themselves but the way the Coaches just blow them off as if every team we have played has been Top 10 when they are nowhere near that. We had the perfect OOC schedule and we blew it, thru bad coaching, game management and preparation. Its seems as if we go into a games blind not knowing what a team is going to do.

After 6 games it is getting very old.

the green rokemi · October 24, 2005

a good coach makes adjustmests, period. We haven't had that since Deloach left...

Coach · October 24, 2005

Man, this whole thing is blown out of proportion. A few offhand remarks constitute "bashing?" I don't know... I'd say the stuff said about Coach Dickey on this board constitutes bashing far more than anything he's said in public about a few fans.

When I first got to NT, I was told DD was unappreciative of fans, and I didn't believe it. It took a little while, but it was more than a few offhand remarks that eventually defeated me over the years. This is a legitimate complaint.

And you would think a Division I head coach would be above stooping to the level of an anonymous message board when it came to "bashing". What is said on here is no validation for any shots he has taken on our fans from someone who is paid good money to be a foremost ambassador of our school.

TIgreen01 · October 24, 2005

When I first got to NT, I was told DD was unappreciative of fans, and I didn't believe it. It took a little while, but it was more than a few offhand remarks that eventually defeated me over the years. This is a legitimate complaint.
And you would think a Division I head coach would be above stooping to the level of an anonymous message board when it came to "bashing". What is said on here is no validation for any shots he has taken on our fans from someone who is paid good money to be a foremost ambassador of our school.
←

Yep....I'm with Coach on this one. The last straw for me was Sept. 5, 2005....the green rokemi uses the quote as his signature....

"we still have the most difficult situation to overcome of anyone in the conference.....I know, I work here EVERYday" --D. Dickey

It's gonna be REAL easy to recruit kids to our school with a coach who thinks UNT sucks. Maybe he doesn't say this kind of crap behind closed doors to the recruits---yeah right! Even still, if I was a player and had to listen to my coach talk like this about the school that I chose to spend my college years at....well, I'd be less than happy.

How are you going to build anything if you don't even believe, yourself, that there's anything here worth building on??? If DD would just attempt to focus on the positives here (at all public speaking arrangements), other than always putting the school down, I would shut my mouth. ....but it has been 8 years of this. Enough is enough.

mad dog · October 24, 2005

When I first got to NT, I was told DD was unappreciative of fans, and I didn't believe it. It took a little while, but it was more than a few offhand remarks that eventually defeated me over the years. This is a legitimate complaint.
And you would think a Division I head coach would be above stooping to the level of an anonymous message board when it came to "bashing". What is said on here is no validation for any shots he has taken on our fans from someone who is paid good money to be a foremost ambassador of our school.
←

I think the error, in my own estimation, continues to be what "level" he is stooping to. I think that what has passed for "fan bashing" is really more on the level of "joking" than "bashing." Until I see or hear of Coach Dickey saying something PUBLICLY more abrasive than "I guess the fans are ready to run me out of town again," I am probably going to hold my ground on this one.

I do appreciate the civil and well thought out response though. You do make a very coherent and solid case that really made me think about where I was coming from. I kinda wish there was more of that kind of response on the board these days.

Coffee and TV · October 24, 2005

"hate" is such a strong word though, shaft.

GreenBrigadeDebbie · October 24, 2005

I admit you cannot blame Coach Dickey entirely for the lackluster results this year. The Coach can only motivate so much and a$$ kick so much. The players have to do the rest. I think both parties are to blame for the results. Remember, this sport is not a "coaching" sport or an individual sport. It is a team sport that involves both players and coaches. The Mean Green will not be successful if only one part is doing what they are supposed to. So instead of taking punches at Coach Dickey, remember this is a GROUP effort sport.

drex · October 24, 2005

If I were DD I might begin to look over my shoulder. Bobby Ray is rotating off the Board of Regents and a new president is in the immediate future. Those facts, coupled with UNT's ability to pay for anything that they really want to do, should make life a little uneasy for DD. I think that I am beginning to slightly feel the winds of change blowing into Denton. Has Dickey taken this thing as far as he can?

Perhaps, just like anyone at any job, there is finally a wall that you hit.

the green rokemi · October 24, 2005

Coach is right...

it boils down to this... as a head football coach and with any faculty staff you are an AMBASSADOR for the school, that is your job, if you can not do this then you need to go. Taking shots at the school, alumni, fans is inexcusable, period. I don't understand why someone could be like this especially since all he has done is gotten support from the school, they have done everything but have Dickey Day and have a parade for him...I would have asked DD, if you think that you have the most difficult situation of anyone in the conference what would make it easier? a fatter raise? another extension? a new stadium? new fans? Scott Hall for one more year? Patrick Cobbs could play QB? shut down gomeangreen.com?what did he mean?

eagle60 · October 24, 2005

Has R.V. posted on this board recently? Don't believe I've seen it but I remember this last summer when he did. You know he reads this board. I'd like to hear at least a small response from "the man in charge."

untbowler · October 24, 2005

My view is many are quick to attack the DD bashers, but does that mean your fine with the way the ship going??

This is a trend that happens every year, we are the laughing stock of the region in our OOC games but still win the Belt only to get clobbered by a middle of the pack CUSA team. If anyone is ok with this trend then so be it, that just explains the apathy present. Those who are critical DD are tired of the status quo (excessive penalties, embarassing losses home/away, fan bashing (whether joking or not), and lack of communication between Athletics and fans (i.e. autograph sessions skipped)).

Why should the bashers be criticized for looking to the future and wanting more and feeling that current product will not get us to the next level, that hopefully many others would like to see.

Edited October 24, 2005 by untbowler

Stan R · October 24, 2005

Amen bowler. Just because some of the players seem to support their coach through thick and thin doesn't mean the paying fans that really run this program should support him no matter what. I support the success of this program. Not any one head coach. I do support the players and I think they are (maybe they should) be intelligent enough to know my comments are directed at the coaching staff and not them, indirectly or not.

This is how every other program in D1A is run. Why should we be so averse to taking a hard look at what's going on in the program? If you disagree fine but don't call me a bad fan because of it. I'm at the games, that's my job and I'm taking care of my responsibility - show up at games and buy season's tickets.

- Stan

TIgreen01 · October 24, 2005

Amen bowler. Just because some of the players seem to support their coach through thick and thin doesn't mean the paying fans that really run this program should support him no matter what. I support the success of this program. Not any one head coach. I do support the players and I think they are (maybe they should) be intelligent enough to know my comments are directed at the coaching staff and not them, indirectly or not.
This is how every other program in D1A is run. Why should we be so averse to taking a hard look at what's going on in the program? If you disagree fine but don't call me a bad fan because of it. I'm at the games, that's my job and I'm taking care of my responsibility - show up at games and buy season's tickets.
- Stan
←

I'll go ahead and expand that to be, "Not any one INDIVIDUAL." Throw everyone under that umbrella....students, faculty, staff, administrators, coaches, players, etc. I don't care who you are, if you'd rather be someplace else.....go. I'm proud of UNT....and not just the UNT football team, but every school under it and every quirky thing about the university. There isn't a person that knows me that does not know that one simple fact about me. Not one. We should not have to question whether or not certain leaders feel the same way.

greensteve · October 24, 2005

RELOAD...NOT REBUILD!!!

Seems like alot of teams are having trouble RELOADING this year...

See OKLAHOMA, OK ST, LOUISVILLE, MEMPHIS, UTAH, TENNESSE...

Fire these Coaches...this is an outrage!!! GET A ROPE!!!!

Green92 · October 24, 2005

good point Steve.

I guess if it was as easy as some people think, every school would win every game. Now how is that possible? What's really sad is that some on this board have sunk so low they are fighting with parents of our players. They have much more at stake than we do. Some people need to step away from the keyboard and go back to D&D or whatever it was they where doing before they started paying attention to football.

ipEAGLE · October 24, 2005

Reality
1. We do not make our kids go to class.
2. Our team has no discipline. (penalties)
3. After 4 straight conf. championships you reload, not rebuild.
4. Recruiting has been terrible.
5. The coach is not good with donors.
6. The coach bashes supporters.
7. New athletic center, turf, weightroom, academic center, video equipment, offices for coaches, state of the art meeting rooms = bad recruiting, bad grades
8. The teams record.
9. The teams record at the end of the year.
10. 85-0 score in Baton Rouge
11. No progress in other areas than just win loss; ie grades, discipline
12. Athletic director works butt of to get tools, football coaches don't use tools.
Please refute any of these points, Please!!!!!!!
←

POST OF THE YR.

untbowler · October 24, 2005

RELOAD...NOT REBUILD!!!
Seems like alot of teams are having trouble RELOADING this year...
See OKLAHOMA, OK ST, LOUISVILLE, MEMPHIS, UTAH, TENNESSE...
Fire these Coaches...this is an outrage!!! GET A ROPE!!!!
←

Exactly how many of those teams are getting blown out by an avg of 40 pts by mid-level and lower teams??

Got5onIt · October 24, 2005

RELOAD...NOT REBUILD!!!
Seems like alot of teams are having trouble RELOADING this year...
See OKLAHOMA, OK ST, LOUISVILLE, MEMPHIS, UTAH, TENNESSE...
Fire these Coaches...this is an outrage!!! GET A ROPE!!!!
←

This would be a legitimate argument if NT had even a particle of the success some of these schools have had over the years. The problem here is that NT wants to get where these schools are at in terms of their football programs. When that happens, you'll gain permission to use your argument.