Meager/Bomar Similar?

andrewrozell · October 19, 2005

In the past couple of weeks I have seen OU suck it up as well as UNT under perform. All Stoops talks about is keeping Bomar playing because he is who Stoops wants to complete the offense, so he allows Bomar to play even though he really hasn't shown anything. I wonder if Dickey is doing the same thing with Meager. Watching Meager closely, I think he makes amatuer mistakes. When given time, he throws well.

In the midst of a season unfamilar to us, we need to realize we are still getting it done where it counts and still only a 1 loss conference team. I feel we may have stepped backwards from last years team, but overall our "curve" is rising.

I will be the first to admit frustration; but I know our run was magical and teams have rebuilding seasons. I still like Dickey; and Meager is growing on me. They both have times of frustration. But Dickey has been there for this team and I think will be there to recruit and continue to elevate the team.

That is my soapbox, I will again go dormat and read the negative posts covering this board.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 19, 2005

In the past couple of weeks I have seen OU suck it up as well as UNT under perform. All Stoops talks about is keeping Bomar playing because he is who Stoops wants to complete the offense, so he allows Bomar to play even though he really hasn't shown anything. I wonder if Dickey is doing the same thing with Meager. Watching Meager closely, I think he makes amatuer mistakes. When given time, he throws well.
In the midst of a season unfamilar to us, we need to realize we are still getting it done where it counts and still only a 1 loss conference team. I feel we may have stepped backwards from last years team, but overall our "curve" is rising.
I will be the first to admit frustration; but I know our run was magical and teams have rebuilding seasons. I still like Dickey; and Meager is growing on me. They both have times of frustration. But Dickey has been there for this team and I think will be there to recruit and continue to elevate the team.
That is my soapbox, I will again go dormat and read the negative posts covering this board.
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Some of the Mean Green fanbase may have been as mistaken about their team's 2005 outlook as OU fans were. Both teams were having to start a bunch of new guys on both sides of the ball - particularly at the key position of QB.

I think Stoops realized you can't make a guy grow up overnight, but also that he won't grow unless he's in there, so he decided early on to stick with Bomar despite the fumbles and interceptions. We're in the same boat. Although, I don't think Meager has turned the ball over near as much as Bomar has.

PHSCoach · October 19, 2005

OU's production idles without protection

Sooners' troubles can be linked to offensive line's inconsistent state

11:51 PM CDT on Tuesday, October 18, 2005

By BRIAN DAVIS / The Dallas Morning News

NORMAN, Okla. – Chuck Long said an old coach once told him there was one secret to developing a good passing game.

"Protection, protection, protection," Oklahoma's offensive coordinator said.

Reasons for OU's offensive struggles this season can be traced to the trenches. Losing players to the NFL draft and others to injury have thinned the ranks on the offensive line.

But the Sooners have also battled attrition. Some recruits just didn't pan out and others didn't have the heart for football.

Oklahoma's inability to develop or stockpile talent on the offensive line has finally caught up with the Sooners (3-3, 2-1 Big 12) this season. It's a key reason why OU ranks 104th nationally in total offense by averaging 290 yards per game.

"You could point fingers all you want," coach Bob Stoops said. "But in the end, we are thin there and it has affected us to some degree."

Offensive line coach Kevin Wilson said most recruits come to school knowing they will redshirt their first season. Normally, an 18- or 19-year-old needs to adjust to the workload required by OU strength coach Jerry Schmidt.

"There's no freshman or JV team like you have in high school," Wilson said. "So after awhile, if you're not having success, it becomes frustrating. It's a lot of work, and some guys just feel like they aren't being rewarded for it."

Three recruits who signed in 2001 are now fifth-year seniors.

Tackle Chris Messner is the only junior on the two-deep roster. There are no sophomores. Everyone else is either a redshirt freshman or freshman.

Messner was part of the 2002 recruiting class that had five offensive line signees. Davin Joseph played immediately as a freshman, and the senior is now a starting left tackle.

Abner Estrada of Carrollton played in six games as a freshman, but he left before the start of the 2003 season. Steve Taylor was considered a project when he signed and didn't pan out. Jeff Lebby suffered a career-ending back injury.

All the offensive linemen in the 2003 recruiting class are gone. Antonn Reid of Plano quietly left the team. Brian Zimpel never found his niche and left.

Akim Millington was a projected starter at right tackle before this season. But he inexplicably quit just days before the season opener against TCU.

Brandon Keith skipped almost all preseason practices in August. He eventually quit by sending a text message to Wilson's cellphone.

"I know the summer time is where they really try to weed those guys out," said Vince Carter, an All-American as a senior in 2004. "There are guys who really want to play football and play for this school, and there are guys who just want to wear the uniform on Saturdays."

But how do you measure a recruit's commitment level? Carter said one player stayed at his house one summer and gave no indication he would eventually quit.

Stoops said: "I think you're always looking for guys, especially in the offensive line, that are just tough, hard-working, fighting guys. That's what you look for. It's not always the easiest thing to find."

Wilson said the coaching staff will examine its recruiting philosophy going forward.

Coaches will now take harder looks at players in Oklahoma and Texas instead of far-flung states such as Illinois, Florida or Colorado.

Wilson said he'd rather coach players grow up wanting to be an Oklahoma Sooner and who want to stay close to home.

For example, OU has already landed an oral commitment from Cory Brandon, a 6-6, 260-pounder from Corsicana. Brandon, however, is the only offensive lineman who has committed thus far.

Wilson made it clear that OU would probably have to look at signing junior college players to help in the immediate future.

"There's a handful right now that we're pursuing within the region," Wilson said. "Some of those have already been offered, and we need to get them. Maybe that will help some of the attrition."

E-mail brdavis@dallasnews.com

gangrene · October 19, 2005

These Meager/Bomar comparisons really crack me up.

It's sort of like comparing Ben Roethlisberger to David Carr. One has a great coach and supporting cast...the other doesn't.

As I recall, Bomar was the number 1 ranked HS QB in the nation. He may never live up to his expectations, but when's the last time UNT had a #1 ranked player at any position??

Here are some more similarities:

Both have former college QBs for offensive coordinators.

Both have great RBs in their backfield.

Both are RS Freshmen.

Both have head coaches that won a national title, uh, I mean conference title.

And here are some drastic differences:

Bomar is allowed to run.

Bomar is allowed to call audibles.

Bomar doesn't play against SBC teams.

Bomar has 741 passing yards.

El Paso Eagle · October 19, 2005

These Meager/Bomar comparisons really crack me up.
It's sort of like comparing Ben Roethlisberger to David Carr. One has a great coach and supporting cast...the other doesn't.
As I recall, Bomar was the number 1 ranked HS QB in the nation. He may never live up to his expectations, but when's the last time UNT had a #1 ranked player at any position??
Here are some more similarities:
Both have former college QBs for offensive coordinators.
Both have great RBs in their backfield.
Both are RS Freshmen.
Both have head coaches that won a national title, uh, I mean conference title.
And here are some drastic differences:
Bomar is allowed to run.
Bomar is allowed to call audibles.
Bomar doesn't play against SBC teams.
Bomar has 741 passing yards.
←

Yes but………, I mean ........., well you have to understand.........

If we had a new stadium (sorry Plumm had to say it) everything would be OK

andrewrozell · October 21, 2005

took awhile to get back to the post....

but, i think gangrene has it wrong... Big Ben and David Carr is a horrible example... and as I recall, Meager did run to help us get back in the game against troy, or had you already left by then. if you had left, have you not seen meager run the option... he is faster than Scott Hall dreams about.

what does Bomar playing SBC teams have anything to do with?

i wouldn't allow a RS Freshman call audibles anyway and Meager is getting more passing oppurtunities every game.

i think i hit your four poorly put points.

UNTFan23 · October 21, 2005

Yes but………, I mean ........., well you have to understand.........
If we had a new stadium (sorry Plumm had to say it) everything would be OK
←

user posted image

[five minutes later...]

Wait, were you being serious?

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 21, 2005

I actually think that Meager is better than Bomar at this point. I have watched Bomar and he can't seem to hit the side of a barn. Maybe if you put him against Sun Belt teams he might do better, but he was so bad against Tulsa, the coaching staff didn't let him attempt one single pass in the second half.

As for the audibles, coach Dickey's offense actually has audibles?

BIG DAWG · October 21, 2005

Bomar doesn't play against SBC teams.

Bomar does play in the Big XII, but he has Big XII talent surrounding him. Meager is a Sunbelt QB with Sunbelt talent supporting him.

No one is trying to say that Maeger and Bomar are equal in QB ability/talent, but they are each having the same problems in the conferences they are in.

That being said Stoops still believes that Bomar is the man at OU for the FUTURE, there is no reason that we shouldn't be able to feel the same about Meager.

MeanMag · October 21, 2005

In the past couple of weeks I have seen OU suck it up as well as UNT under perform. All Stoops talks about is keeping Bomar playing because he is who Stoops wants to complete the offense, so he allows Bomar to play even though he really hasn't shown anything. I wonder if Dickey is doing the same thing with Meager. Watching Meager closely, I think he makes amatuer mistakes. When given time, he throws well.
In the midst of a season unfamilar to us, we need to realize we are still getting it done where it counts and still only a 1 loss conference team. I feel we may have stepped backwards from last years team, but overall our "curve" is rising.
I will be the first to admit frustration; but I know our run was magical and teams have rebuilding seasons. I still like Dickey; and Meager is growing on me. They both have times of frustration. But Dickey has been there for this team and I think will be there to recruit and continue to elevate the team.
That is my soapbox, I will again go dormat and read the negative posts covering this board.
←

Both went to and graduated from highschool

Both go to college and play quarterback

Both have mothers

Both are on this planet

Yep, they're similar alright, but who cares? What's the point?

It's very apples and oranges

They (OU) still beat and get beat by good teams.

Edited October 21, 2005 by MeanMag

JayDub · October 21, 2005

I don't know anything about Bomar other than the fact that his dad was a douchebag to me when I tried to interview him on air (he's the coach at Callisburg High).

gangrene · October 21, 2005

took awhile to get back to the post....
but, i think gangrene has it wrong... Big Ben and David Carr is a horrible example... and as I recall, Meager did run to help us get back in the game against troy, or had you already left by then. if you had left, have you not seen meager run the option... he is faster than Scott Hall dreams about.
what does Bomar playing SBC teams have anything to do with?
i wouldn't allow a RS Freshman call audibles anyway and Meager is getting more passing oppurtunities every game.
i think i hit your four poorly put points.
←

Ok, I guess I have to post a rebuttal since you obviously missed by points. By the way, how do you figure you hit my four points anyway?? You gave no explanation on anything besides Meager's ability to run.

#1 - I said Bomar is allowed to run - meaning his coaches give him permission to make the first down with his legs whenever his pass protection breaks down. If you had been reading posts here you may have noticed one that referenced how Meager was chewed out for running the ball in the 1st half of the Troy game. And yes, in fact, I had left before his TD run against Troy because I brought four guests to the game, one of which had never seen a football game before. They were sooo bored that I couldn't hold them hostage any longer than Troy's last field goal...I think there was about 3 minutes left on the game clock.

#2 - As far as I know, you're not a college coach so you don't have to worry about the decision of whether or not to allow a RS Freshman to call audibles. I don't have to worry about that decision either but it is my opinion that a QB (regardless of experience) should be allowed to audible out of a play...oh let's say...when it's 1st and 10 and the defense has 8-9 in the box and the play call call from the sidelines is our typical hand-off up the middle. As far as audibling relates to this thread - I think the fact that Bomar is given that responsibility tells many stories. We already know he runs a more complex offense than UNT (anyone care to debate me on that one?) and he obviously has more things to think about each play than does Meager. Knowing that the QB has the ability to change the play also allows for better communication within the huddle. For example, a receiver notices his cover man limped off the field and sees a replacement that he can beat come in, he tells the QB to keep an eye on him because he can take the back-up DB. QB changes the play, WR receiver burns the DB and they score 6. This happens all the time (not with OU) but it happens so quickly that it can't be done from the sideline.

#3 - I agree with Big Dawg on a few of his comments (however, I think some people are trying to say that Meager is equal to Bomar in athletic ability). My comment about Bomar playing in the Big XII is that, while he does have Big XII offensive talent supporting him, he also has to play against very talented Big XII defenses. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'd have to guess that the DBs and LBs Bomar faces on weekly basis are superior in athletic ability than the SBC defenses Meager faces.

#4 - I guess this is four...Ben vs. Carr. Well, this is a similar point to #3, except that both QBs are supposed to have equal talent around them and face equal talent week in and week out. Would David Carr excel in Cowher's offense??? Would Bomar excel at UNT???

Would anyone trade Meager for Bomar if that was an option??? You don't have to answer that because it might cause the whole thread to be deleted...but it's certainly food for thought.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 21, 2005

#2 - As far as I know, you're not a college coach so you don't have to worry about the decision of whether or not to allow a RS Freshman to call audibles. I don't have to worry about that decision either but it is my opinion that a QB (regardless of experience) should be allowed to audible out of a play...oh let's say...when it's 1st and 10 and the defense has 8-9 in the box and the play call call from the sidelines is our typical hand-off up the middle. As far as audibling relates to this thread - I think the fact that Bomar is given that responsibility tells many stories. We already know he runs a more complex offense than UNT (anyone care to debate me on that one?) and he obviously has more things to think about each play than does Meager. Knowing that the QB has the ability to change the play also allows for better communication within the huddle. For example, a receiver notices his cover man limped off the field and sees a replacement that he can beat come in, he tells the QB to keep an eye on him because he can take the back-up DB. QB changes the play, WR receiver burns the DB and they score 6. This happens all the time (not with OU) but it happens so quickly that it can't be done from the sideline.

Bomar doesn't call his own audibles. OU coaches send two plays into the huddle. Bomar calls the #1 play. If he gets to the line and thinks it won't work against the defense he sees, he switches to the #2 play. He's not good at it either. He looks like a scared jack rabbit hopping up and down the line when he tries to change the play.

andrewrozell · October 21, 2005

Gangrene... lets review

I looked into some of the facts, and here they are... unskewed, straight facts.

Meager averages -4.2 yards rushing per game

Bomar averages 15 yards rushing per game

Meager averages 88.4 yards passing per game

Bomar averages 123.5 yards passing per game

I don't know how those numbers shows "Bomar is allowed to run", doesn't seem to be productive at all. 15 yds/game? Not a huge difference maker. And to my recollection, Meager does scramble well and run the option pretty successfully (1 fumble)

More Specifically

Meager TD/INT Ratio = .5

Bomar TD/INT Ratio = .6

Against common opponents (Tulsa, Kansas St.)

Meager had more rushing yards against Tulsa than Bomar.

Bomar had more passing yards against K-St. than Meager.

Now, I think with these numbers, its clear to see that Stoops allows Bomar to run no more than Dickey does Meager... and further more, these numbers show that Meager is just about doing the same number wise as Bomar is doing in the Big XII.

Do I think that Meager could play just as good as Bomar at OU... YES!! I do.

To breifly touch your other rash opinions... I am not a college coach, however, how do you know Quinn doesn't enter the huddle and give Meager the heads up. The fact is, you don't know when any reciever does that ever, nobody but people in the huddle know that and it is ridiculous to make judgements calls and say there is better communication when the QB has control. (ie McNabb/Owens)

Lastly, the Big XII / Sun Belt arguement I think I touched earlier... and Ben and Carr... I don't care... Carr sucks, any arguments?!

Edited October 21, 2005 by andrewrozell

FirefightnRick · October 21, 2005

JayDub

his dad was a douchebag to me when I tried to interview him on air (he's the coach at Callisburg High).

JayDub, when did he leave Granprairie? Is he still at Callisburg now?

Rick

MeanMag · October 21, 2005

Gangrene... lets review
I looked into some of the facts, and here they are... unskewed, straight facts.
Meager averages -4.2 yards rushing per game
Bomar averages 15 yards rushing per game
Meager averages 88.4 yards passing per game
Bomar averages 123.5 yards passing per game
I don't know how those numbers shows "Bomar is allowed to run", doesn't seem to be productive at all. 15 yds/game? Not a huge difference maker. And to my recollection, Meager does scramble well and run the option pretty successfully (1 fumble)
←

I'll argue that there is a huge difference when taking avg. yards per game between -4 and 15 yds. Thats a difference of 20 yards per game. That's HUGE.

I'll also take issue that a (+) plus sign in front of yards rushing is way better than a (-) no matter how many yards are behind it.

Stop comparing them to each other, they aren't anything alike. Is this supposed to make me feel better about Meager being the starter? Because I don't and given the choice I would take Bomar. If Meager played for OU, he'd be sitting 5th string for 4 years watching Paul Thompson do his thing while holding Stoops' Caffine Free Diet Perrier, if he didn't get hurt first.

I'm not saying Meager is a bad QB, although I wouldn't argue with anyone that said he was. It's just assenine to compare the 2. So some stats are close... they have played the same amount of time in CFB, they play the same position. I bet there are more QB's than just him who have similar stats. Maybe Rice, Navy, who knows, I'm not gonna look up stats because it's BS. Hell, take any innept offense in the nation and compare them.

Fact, and I hate OU, and I would love for this not to be true:

THIS YEAR: OU beats and gets beat by good teams.

THIS YEAR: NT barely beats crappy teams, and gets beat by teams we shouldn't lose to, slobberknocked by good ones.

For some reason we want to compare a 4yr old midgets manhood with Yao Ming.

Someday, we will get there. There are too many folks that want to see this program do well. But until we get there, spare us these outrageous comparisons, that don't mean anything, please. And put away the "Meager for Heisman" signs because he is seviceable, just like any QB during Dickey's era has been.

gangrene · October 22, 2005

Gangrene... lets review
I looked into some of the facts, and here they are... unskewed, straight facts.
Meager averages -4.2 yards rushing per game
Bomar averages 15 yards rushing per game
Meager averages 88.4 yards passing per game
Bomar averages 123.5 yards passing per game
I don't know how those numbers shows "Bomar is allowed to run", doesn't seem to be productive at all. 15 yds/game? Not a huge difference maker. And to my recollection, Meager does scramble well and run the option pretty successfully (1 fumble)
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Ok Statman...or is your real name Norm Hitzges....I give...you're just too good. I simply can't argue with those "straight facts" and I don't know why every college in the country was knocking down Bomar's door when they could have signed Meager.

Maybe you should contact ESPN with your research and see if they'd be willing to do a story on the amazing similarities between Meager and Bomar...it would be great publicity for the Mean Green.

Do I think that Meager could play just as good as Bomar at OU... YES!! I do.
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Well, my question wasn't whether or not Meager could play as well as Bomar but that little statement says a lot. I think my grandmother is more knowledgeable about football than you are and she could play just as well as Bomar too if the situation was right.

H-towngreen · October 22, 2005

Wow everyones a little on edge around here as of late.

andrewrozell · October 22, 2005

MeanMag, i don't know why you are on this board. this is for UNT fans. 20 yds isn't a huge difference. its 2 first downs, a couple of penalties. and thats 20 yrds average, Bomar has managed to put 2 negative yard rushing games as well.

Big XII is on of the weakest conferences out there and by far the weakest of the BSC conferences, they don't lose to good teams (maybe Texas) and they don't beat good teams. we are not comparing a midget to Ming, but two quarterbacks. and if you could read, you would see they have more similarities than the ones you listed, get your boyfriend to translate for you.

Gangrene, don't be jealous because you were talking out of your rear and i pulled in stats. i am no Norm, but put Meager in Bomar's shoes and he would do just as good. i don't know why you blew up so much about the word "could", kinda mute point in the scheme of my post.

why can't anyone support our team when its losing?!!

untbowler · October 22, 2005

Big XII is on of the weakest conferences out there and by far the weakest of the BSC conferences, they don't lose to good teams (maybe Texas) and they don't beat good teams.
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Are you kidding me the Big XII is not weak, they would heads up beat any non-BCS conference and let's not forget they also have the Big East and Pac -10 outside of USC and UCLA.

I could use some of that Green Koolade your drinking though.

MeanMag · October 22, 2005

MeanMag, i don't know why you are on this board. this is for UNT fans. 20 yds isn't a huge difference. its 2 first downs, a couple of penalties. and thats 20 yrds average, Bomar has managed to put 2 negative yard rushing games as well.
Big XII is on of the weakest conferences out there and by far the weakest of the BSC conferences, they don't lose to good teams (maybe Texas) and they don't beat good teams. we are not comparing a midget to Ming, but two quarterbacks. and if you could read, you would see they have more similarities than the ones you listed, get your boyfriend to translate for you.
Gangrene, don't be jealous because you were talking out of your rear and i pulled in stats. i am no Norm, but put Meager in Bomar's shoes and he would do just as good. i don't know why you blew up so much about the word "could", kinda mute point in the scheme of my post.
why can't anyone support our team when its losing?!!
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Now, I think I hit a nerve somehow. I don't see why you have such a hard on for Meager. Maybe it's you that has the boyfriend. I think you are a very insecure person, otherwise there is no excuse for that sentence to be in there. If you have to resort to trying to make me look gay, it just shows how little ground you have to stand on with this subject and maybe college football. Just because you can get on the internet and look up stats doesn't mean that you automatically gain credibility for your point. Any educated football fan will tell you that 20 yards a game difference IS huge. And if you watched UNT football this season, you would realize that we need every yard we can get, we can't be losing yards on avg. at the QB position. It is a couple of penalties, penalties that we have too many of. It's a 1/5 of a football field. When our offense is straining to get yards, it could put us or take us out of field goal range.

I am on this board because I am a UNT fan. Maybe you would like to be stuck in mediocrity for the rest of your life. Now, I have been a fan of UNT football for 5 years, a member of the board for almost as long, I don't have to defend my pride in UNT to some newcomer statboy that thinks MEAGER is better than Bomar. Give me a break.

The Big XII is not one of the weakest, There are at least 4 conferences weaker and the SBC is the weakest. I guess your right TCU isn't a good team. And Tulsa, boy, they weren't good either. Kansas State was a horrible team. But Troy was good. Don't let your love of UNT football cloud your judgement. You will lose your credibility to make a valid point to any college football fan, not just me. Then you will have to question everyones sexuality because someone doesn't see things your way.

We are UNT fans, I will personally be at the next home game. I support our team. It has nothing to do with comparing these 2 qbs. Now grow up, stop getting so defensive because not everyone sees Meager as the next John Elway.

andrewrozell · October 22, 2005

i have said everything in jest... sure edgy jest, but jest none-the-less. and unfortunately, me saying a comment about "boyfriend" hit a nerve on you... easy boy.

the reason i said that, was to take a stab at your knowledge of football, as if you were a girl, not a homosexual (no offense to girls )

i have lived in Denton for 13 years now and have seen first hand our success, yes even at fouts.

it is fantastic to hear you have been a fan for 5, but i think the general public comes down way, way to hard on a freshmen QB. maybe phillips should be given a shot, but Dickey has made a point to make meager starter, and i have (well, want) to back that... anyway possible.

Big XII really is a weak conference this year, but you can start another post to argue that... any day of the week I think ACC, SEC, Pac-10, Big Ten could win (on average of course... lets dismiss the Vanderbilts, Dukes and OkSt.s), i am talking say Indiana vs CU or Ole Miss vs say, A&M. (Big XII has Texas... thats all)

i think the post has taken the wrong turn. please forgive me for trying to pull in some stats... i thought i was interesting.