not only does this NT team stink...

SpaceMonkey · October 18, 2005

People already commented on how not one SBC team has an overall winning record. But check out two teams which were in SBC and then switched conferences (to the WAC). Idaho (who was decent) and New Mexico State (who was always a top foe for NT) are a combined 1-11 in the Wac. In a couple weeks another win will be added but only because these two teams are playing each other.

So, for a team who routinely whipped up on the SB, but faced some tough opponents such as MTSU and New Mexico state you can see that MTSU has experienced a somewhat equal drop compared to NT, and NT surely would not have fared much better in a different conference.

thats probably not worthy of conversation, but I found it interesting to look at the fortunes of those who jumped ship and are feeling the heat because of it.

UNTLifer · October 18, 2005

I think you have to remember that Idaho won about 4 games the last 4 years, so they are just continueing to struggle. NMSU is in its first year under Hal Mumme and his "sling it around" offense which is a big change considering they were primarily a running team under Samuels. I look for NMSU to improve and Idaho to continue to struggle.

PHSCoach · October 18, 2005

Look brain child they have played a total of 3 conf. games. Little hard to say that they will lose all the rest at this point

SpaceMonkey · October 19, 2005

Not really. Why don't you go look at their losses. Only a couple of them were anything that could be considered "games". The one win (by Idaho) was a conference game indeed, but even that was a game they only lost by a touchdown last year. Combined they are expected to win (as predicted by CFN) a whopping total of 5 games!! I guess a good question is what makes you think they will not lose all or even most of the rest of their games?

FirefightnRick · October 19, 2005

Considering how NMSU got their heads handed to them against Texas a couple of years back, and how well they played a ranked Cal team under their first year coach this season, gives reason to believe they will improve over time.

Rick

SpaceMonkey · October 19, 2005

how well they played? 41-13 allowing just under 600 yds of total offense? Yes the loss could have been a lot worse, but I'm still nto sure I'd call that game playing well. Further, its reasonable to expect that anyone will get better over time.

I should clarify something. I'm not saying that teams who jump up a conference ought to be competing right away. If NT did that I would expect them to be in the cellar for atleast 2 or 3 years, probably longer. However, some people have complained about the SB over the last couple of years (I have done that), and some of those same people have complained about not winning games this year. So I'm just illustrating that within the conference NT is experiencing the drop in production that other teams (MTSU) are, and that if they had jumped ship, we might have been complaining about that for the last couples of years.

That being said, I think that if we had moved to CUSA or a different conference roughly two years ago that we'd have seen better recruits and have better future potential than where we are now.

meangreendork · October 19, 2005

IF

The key word is "IF"

We didn't move to CUSA because of the lack of other sports programs. We're an odd school because we have 31k+ students, but our baseball team is still only a club. The same could be said about some of our other sports.

Besides which, if the invite had come, we would've taken it. Not a whole lot can be done about that now, and nothing should really be said about joining another conference until we clear that all up.

untbowler · October 19, 2005

so do you guys enjoy beating a dead horse???

Yes the Sun Belt is bad right now, but where else could we be??

We could be like Temple and be independent taking up the Wazzoo every weekend by major teams, we could be in the WAC-off Conference drowning in travel expenses and have nothing going on across I-35.

We are in a good place for now. It is upto RV and company to put the right personnel in to make a conference change plausible and then happen.

It could be a lot worse we could still have Helwig and Hurley around.

Let's be true fans and show-up no matter what happens and give the players the support they deserve, whether you like the coaches or not.

PlummMeanGreen · October 19, 2005

so do you guys enjoy beating a dead horse???
Yes the Sun Belt is bad right now, but where else could we be??
We could be like Temple and be independent taking up the Wazzoo every weekend by major teams, we could be in the WAC-off Conference drowning in travel expenses and have nothing going on across I-35.
We are in a good place for now. It is upto RV and company to put the right personnel in to make a conference change plausible and then happen.
It could be a lot worse we could still have Helwig and Hurley around.
Let's be true fans and show-up no matter what happens and give the players the support they deserve, whether you like the coaches or not.
←

You say, beat a dead horse, uh, beat a dead horse? I know, I know, I often get redundant (again), that is, I often get redundant again, but I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what: young does not, I repeat, young does not translate to stink in the NCAA; I repeat a 3'rd time, young does not translate to stink and that is not a fair word for a team with numerous 1'st time starters: We just have to give our new starters some time to grow up, fellas; you know, kinda' like most of ours first weeks in a new job when most of us didn't know what the hell was going on around us, but we began to, uh, slowly learn?

GMG!

Edited October 19, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

Eagle1855 · October 19, 2005

Losing to UT 66-7 is about the same as losing to Cal 41-13. Cal is overrated. They were overrated last year when Texas Tech beat the pants off them. That was the same Texas Tech team that got massacred by UT (yes, the "overrated" UT) by 30 points in Lubbock. The same thing will happen when they come to Austin this year. NMSU has not improved, they are terrible. Same goes for Idaho whose only win has come against the elite Utah State. Only losers have moral victories. Of course, Ive seen alot of moral victories this year- Im in the unique position of being both a NT fan and a Houston Texans fan!

Im still not sold that the WAC is all that much better a conference to try to "recruit" in than the sunbelt-- both suck, the WAC just sucks a little less because it has 2 higher-profile teams. Boise State? Big deal. After the top two in the WAC, the Belt and WAC are similar conferences- ours just makes more sense geographically. I would rather play against other Texas and Louisiana teams. We need to beat the teams we compete against in recruiting. We would have that opportunity in C-USA, not the WAC. The nations best recruiting areas are in our backyard. So glad we said no to the WAC, and I hope we would say the same if they come sniffing around here again!

Edited October 19, 2005 by Eagle1855

UNTLifer · October 19, 2005

The one win (by Idaho) was a conference game indeed, but even that was a game they only lost by a touchdown last year.
←

Now that's a head scratcher.

So are you saying they lost their one win by a touchdown?

Edited October 19, 2005 by UNTLifer

FirefightnRick · October 19, 2005

how well they played? 41-13 allowing just under 600 yds of total offense? Yes the loss could have been a lot worse, but I'm still nto sure I'd call that game playing well. Further, its reasonable to expect that anyone will get better over time.

NMSU racked up 346 yards and 22 first downs against Cal and was only 13 points down to them going into the 4th quarter. NMSU lacks a good defense right now and gave up two long 80+ yard drives in the 4th quarter and allowed it to get away from them. Considering how North Texas has played it's OOC games, to me that is playing well in my book anyday.

Losing to UT 66-7 is about the same as losing to Cal 41-13.

No it's not, see my post above.

Cal is overrated

Maybe, but they are a hell of a lot better than Tulsa and K State.

But to give your mentioning of NMSU's loss to UT credit, I'd take that 66-7 loss over our's last year, considering NMSU took the opening kickoff and drove for the opening score and the lead, giving the 80,000 plus UT faithfull something to worry about, if only for a few minutes.

NMSU's coach is selling excitement right now and giving the Lac Cruces community a reason that they will be ablet to compete in the future with the bigger programs and vie for a conference championship.

Here's what former Kentucky president Charles Wetherington and former Kentucky A.D. C.M. Newton had to say about Hal Mumme:

"I think Hal Mumme is an excellent football coach," says former University of Kentucky President and member of the NCAA Board of Directors and NCAA Executive Committee Charles Wetherington. "I believe NMSU has made a good choice. He has a great offensive mind. The fans will love his style of football and that’s very important. He has those kinds of leadership qualities that prove to be successful in any endeavor. If I had the opportunity, I would certainly hire him again."...
...."I was looking for someone who played differently than the norm," says former Kentucky athletics director C.M. Newton. "We had a tradition of having some very good football coaches, but not being able to win with the traditional approach. I was looking for someone who did things differently. The best way to describe it is that you will see a team that presses and fast breaks on grass. It’s a very sound system of football. He uses the pass to set up the run. It’s fun. The thing that I observed is that the players really enjoyed playing. He did a tremendous job. We were able to enlarge our stadium because of the interest. I think Hal is a much better football coach right now than when he came to UK. He learned a lot at Kentucky."

NMSU is currently 0-7. Big deal, North Texas is 13 gifts away from being 0-5. Considering what the two schools have to look forward to for the future an exciting 0-7 team in NMSU's current situation isn't all that bad.

Rick

Edited October 19, 2005 by FirefightnRick

Eagle1855 · October 19, 2005

Agree with most of your post Rick, especially the part about us being 13 gifts away from a winless season. Mumme should be a good coach for NMSU once he gets comfortable there. I do not think NMSU's future is brighter than NT's however (not sure if thats what you were implying, if not, no worries!). I think we have alot to look forward to in Denton.

I still disagree with you on the part about putting up 346 yards against Cal being comparable to their loss at Texas... Texas has had a killer defense over the past few years- Cal has not. Even really good teams have had a hard time moving the ball against Texas this year and last. But its really irrelevant how well Texas or Cal play against other teams. We would suck BAD against either of them, thats the relevant problem and the cause for concern. Because as you stated, Cal is better than KSTATE and TULSA, and we all know what happened there...

Edited October 19, 2005 by Eagle1855

FirefightnRick · October 19, 2005

I still disagree with you on the part about putting up 346 yards against Cal being comparable to their loss...

True, and a loss is a loss. But what would you give for North Texas to only be down by 13 to a ranked team going into the 4th quarter, any ranked team?

Rick

SpaceMonkey · October 19, 2005

Now that's a head scratcher.
So are you saying they lost their one win by a touchdown?
←

No, that is the team they beat this year (their exaulted conference win) came against a team that they lost to last season by a TD. My apologies for confusion of semantics.

I agree with the post about playing Texas teams and La teams. I look forward to next year's SMU game, but I've been telling my dad for years now that UNT would heavily benefit from a yearly matchup with TCU and/or SMU. Someday that might come about because of conference alignment, but I think now would be a good time to institute one of those (I'm not sure if next year's SMU game is intended to become a yearly event).

The reason I say its beneficial is that at least metroplex channels would carry the game, and attendance would be larger than usual. Not to mention that recruits who are looking to stay in the DFW area would be able to see that going to UNT would mean getting area recognition as the top team in the metroplex.

As far as the SB being more geographically convenient that is only the case as of this year, and even now it still has its troubles (traveling to Miami) but then again, the Big 12 has that problem too, to a minor extent (ranging from College Station and Austin to Ames, IA). But previously NT had to travel to Idaho, and even to Utah I believe. I think smaller conferences are starting to realize they need to become more clustered when they can rather then extending across 7 state lines. Being an Indy def does not help this. ND has to travel all over the map.