DD's Record 2001 through 2004

NT80 · October 11, 2005

My old High School/College friend who has started attending games with me comes for the tailgating experience......not the quality of the football game.
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My standard phrase to co-workers razzing me about UNT lately is: I know we didn't play well on the field, but our tailgating beat theirs!

Harry · October 11, 2005

Hey I write my opinions. Please allow me to do that. I give you that same opportunity. My relationship with the Athletic department has nothing to do with the opinions that I write on this board - never has never will. The best I can see is that you are trying to disrespect me, or minimize what my opinions are by making that claim. Try to defend your position on the facts instead of globally trying to dismiss what I am saying by dismissing it as skewed.

In terms of my attitude towards the athletic department, I certainly am not looking to start a lynch mob either as I see that as counter productive. I'm just a fan like many of you. I tend to look at things a little more glass half full than most, but that 's just my nature.

And one last thing, please don't spin what I said to support your agenda. I was the one who said that the comparisons of Fry and Dickey weren't fair. In fact I said, and I quote, " Some state that Fry would have accomplished more if given the situation Dickey faced. I have a lot of respect for Fry but it is in the very least debatable as to whether or not he would have fared any better than Dickey. When Fry was coach, NTSU was getting the leftovers of the SWC in recruiting. Now we have a couple dozen other BCS caliber programs recruiting in our region, not to mention CUSA/Mountain West and others. It's a different world, it's not fair to compare them."

My closing sentence in discussing Fry and Dickey is, "It's a different world it is not fair to compare them."

Let me again put my point in LARGE CAPS SO EVERYONE IS VERY CLEAR AND IT CAN'T BE TWISTED. I HAVE TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR COACH FRY AND HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS. I THINK IT IS UNFAIR TO COMPARE FRY AND DICKEY BECAUSE THEY COME FROM SEPARATE AND VERY DIFFERENT ERA'S.

In terms of the arguement over the era's, let me just say that your 20 additional scholarships arguement is full of holes. The main reason is, very simply the BC$. Back in Fry's day literally anyone could get on TV and there weren't such blatent discrepancies in terms of revenue sharing etc... heckfire, in 1977 when Fry was coaching at NTSU Arkansas State was in the top 20! We have assistant coaches at Oklahoma State making 3-4 times what our assistants are making in this crazy BCS environment. The BCS has developed a system of the Haves and Have nots. Fry didn't have that beast to overcome.

I submit that Fry had a wealth of talent in the State of Texas regardless of the scholarship situation. People weren't as willing to move and transportation wasn't as cheap. Fry could do a lot more in the recruiting game as the rules weren't near as restrictive as they are now. You didn't see the Miami's, the Florida State's and programs like that raiding the State of Texas of it's best players. Most of the best players in Texas would stay in Texas. If a player did not go to a SWC school then NTSU had as good or better a shot than anyone else. Now we see Tulsa, Colorado State, New Mexico and Tulane and La. Tech and UTEP and Memphis and ALL of the Big 12 North Programs like Kansas and KState and Colorado and Missouri that used to be in the Big 8 but now they all LIVE in Texas all recruiting year long. The other point is, yes the Texas and schools of that caliber did recruit some players to sit on the bench and not play for other teams. But I would suggest that - by in large - if a player knew that they weren't going to play they would end up transferring to another IA school.

Here's a quick chart that shows the history of scholarship limits in NCAA Division I-A football:

Years - Limit

• Pre-1977 - None

• 1977-1991 - 95

• 1992 - 92

• 1993 - 88

• 1994-present - 85

Fry was coach at NTSU from 1973-1978.

Again - if you don't agree with me or my opinions that's fine, but please don't try to label me or minimize my opinions by calling me a shill for the Athletic Department. Last I checked I wasn't on their payroll.

SilverEagle · October 11, 2005

Hey I write my opinions. Please allow me to do that. I give you that same opportunity. My relationship with the Athletic department has nothing to do with the opinions that I write on this board - never has never will. The best I can see is that you are trying to disrespect me, or minimize what my opinions are by making that claim. Try to defend your position on the facts instead of globally trying to dismiss what I am saying by dismissing it as skewed.
In terms of my attitude towards the athletic department, I certainly am not looking to start a lynch mob either as I see that as counter productive. I'm just a fan like many of you. I tend to look at things a little more glass half full than most, but that 's just my nature.
And one last thing, please don't spin what I said to support your agenda. I was the one who said that the comparisons of Fry and Dickey weren't fair. In fact I said, and I quote, " Some state that Fry would have accomplished more if given the situation Dickey faced. I have a lot of respect for Fry but it is in the very least debatable as to whether or not he would have fared any better than Dickey. When Fry was coach, NTSU was getting the leftovers of the SWC in recruiting. Now we have a couple dozen other BCS caliber programs recruiting in our region, not to mention CUSA/Mountain West and others. It's a different world, it's not fair to compare them."
My closing sentence in discussing Fry and Dickey is, "It's a different world it is not fair to compare them."
Let me again put my point in LARGE CAPS SO EVERYONE IS VERY CLEAR AND IT CAN'T BE TWISTED. I HAVE TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR COACH FRY AND HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS. I THINK IT IS UNFAIR TO COMPARE FRY AND DICKEY BECAUSE THEY COME FROM SEPARATE AND VERY DIFFERENT ERA'S.
In terms of the arguement over the era's, let me just say that your 20 additional scholarships arguement is full of holes. The main reason is, very simply the BC$. Back in Fry's day literally anyone could get on TV and there weren't such blatent discrepancies in terms of revenue sharing etc... heckfire, in 1977 when Fry was coaching at NTSU Arkansas State was in the top 20! We have assistant coaches at Oklahoma State making 3-4 times what our assistants are making in this crazy BCS environment. The BCS has developed a system of the Haves and Have nots. Fry didn't have that beast to overcome.
I submit that Fry had a wealth of talent in the State of Texas regardless of the scholarship situation. People weren't as willing to move and transportation wasn't as cheap. Fry could do a lot more in the recruiting game as the rules weren't near as restrictive as they are now. You didn't see the Miami's, the Florida State's and programs like that raiding the State of Texas of it's best players. Most of the best players in Texas would stay in Texas. If a player did not go to a SWC school then NTSU had as good or better a shot than anyone else. Now we see Tulsa, Colorado State, New Mexico and Tulane and La. Tech and UTEP and Memphis and ALL of the Big 12 North Programs like Kansas and KState and Colorado and Missouri that used to be in the Big 8 but now they all LIVE in Texas all recruiting year long. The other point is, yes the Texas and schools of that caliber did recruit some players to sit on the bench and not play for other teams. But I would suggest that - by in large - if a player knew that they weren't going to play they would end up transferring to another IA school.
Here's a quick chart that shows the history of scholarship limits in NCAA Division I-A football:
Years - Limit
• Pre-1977 - None
• 1977-1991 - 95
• 1992 - 92
• 1993 - 88
• 1994-present - 85
Fry was coach at NTSU from 1973-1978.
Again - if you don't agree with me or my opinions that's fine, but please don't try to label me or minimize my opinions by calling me a shill for the Athletic Department. Last I checked I wasn't on their payroll.
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I'm not sure what your point is about scholorship limits re: Hayden Fry. I've only mentioned those limits when I've talked about what Corky Nelson had to deal with....which is that his program was 20 ships lighter than his opponents when he played against D-1 Schools. Not to mention fewer assistant coaches than D-1 schools.

I have to respectfully disagree with you about "anyone being able to get on TV back in the 70's". NCAA football was mainly shown on ABC. I think NBC showed some, but not many. Unless a school cut a deal with an "indy" station (of which there were few back then) you were at the mercy of big network decision makers who favored the SWC, Big 8, PAC 8, and Big 10. I don't think that North Texas was ever on TV during that era.

I don't compare the facilities or resources of the two coaches, but I do compare the circumstances. As I said in my comments, Hayden Fry came to North Texas when it literally was on life support. Record-wise and morale-wise, the end of the 72 season was as abysmal as North Texas has ever been... and that includes the 1-AA years. The students almost voted out football, and the campus was full of people that couldn't have cared less for sports. Hayden Fry came in and literally gave it CPR. He brought the Denton community and the North Texas community together like I've never seen before.....or since. He took a 1-10 team and by the next season he produced a 5-5-1 co-MVC championship team....with what would today be called "football spares."

He started the meangreen club and he started the NT Angels program. If there was ANY sort of speaking opportunity he would avail himself of it. If Hayden had had a game day atmosphere like we have now, he would have thought that he had died and gone to heaven. He would have had every player, assistant coach, and anyone else associated with the football program out there meeting and greeting the fans and thus creating an even better atmosphere for everyone.

Hayden could out-recruit, out-motivate, out-bullshit, and out-coach ANY coach that we've ever had here at North Texas.

Edited October 11, 2005 by SilverEagle

UNTLifer · October 11, 2005

My view of the last 4 years is this:
The OOC losses (most of them) are to teams that are top 50 caliber. UT, OU, Nebraska, Kansas, Air Force, Memphis, Baylor, et al. Losing to a better team (some of those games against top 5 teams) is not a problem.
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Please tell me when, during the past four years, NT's played Nebraska and Kansas and when Kansas or Baylor were ranked in the Top 50?

Rudy · October 12, 2005

Heres a thought on possibly getting a High school coach. I dont know if anyone on here said it already, I cant take reading this whole thread. How about Todd Dodge out of Southlake Carroll? I think he would be ready to move up soon. Would be a pay increase, without having to move. He would almost automatically be a default to get the Area and state's top recruits, they have no doubt heard of him. And with the recent success and publicity of the Dragons, we would surely be getting looked at by recruits throughout the nation. I say he may be the best choice to replace dd.

MeanGreen61 · October 12, 2005

Heres a thought on possibly getting a High school coach. I dont know if anyone on here said it already, I cant take reading this whole thread. How about Todd Dodge out of Southlake Carroll? I think he would be ready to move up soon. Would be a pay increase, without having to move. He would almost automatically be a default to get the Area and state's top recruits, they have no doubt heard of him. And with the recent success and publicity of the Dragons, we would surely be getting looked at by recruits throughout the nation. I say he may be the best choice to replace dd.
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Here's a thought. This board is loaded with experts who know what's right, what's wrong, what needs to be done and when it should be done, etc. Maybe a raffle or drawing to select one to lead us to the promise land?

VideoEagle · October 12, 2005

Heres a thought on possibly getting a High school coach. I dont know if anyone on here said it already, I cant take reading this whole thread. How about Todd Dodge out of Southlake Carroll? I think he would be ready to move up soon. Would be a pay increase, without having to move. He would almost automatically be a default to get the Area and state's top recruits, they have no doubt heard of him. And with the recent success and publicity of the Dragons, we would surely be getting looked at by recruits throughout the nation. I say he may be the best choice to replace dd.
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Been there and done that! Dennis Parker shows what a coach with a few 5A state championships as an assistant and head coach can do at the college level. The answer was not much. Although in fairness to him, the only good year Matt Simon has was his first when Parker's players were seniors.

October 12, 2005

Heres a thought on possibly getting a High school coach. ...
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Good God, Magnum! Let's set our sights higher than this.

the green rokemi · October 12, 2005

Here's a thought. This board is loaded with experts who know what's right, what's wrong, what needs to be done and when it should be done, etc. Maybe a raffle or drawing to select one to lead us to the promise land?
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I'd buy that for a dollar