DD's Record 2001 through 2004

UNTLifer · October 10, 2005

DD's Record is 29-21 since 2001 including bowl games. Many of you have preached that this is a sign of improvement in the program and something to be proud of. I don't mean this as to demean any of the players, because I don't believe this coaching staff is extracting their full potential. I use this to point out how unimpressive this record is and to emphasize my earlier point that DD lacks the fire to motivate these players and the creativity to adjust his game plan to take advantage of our opposition's weaknesses.

2001: 5-7; wins over Middle Tennessee, Arkansas State, NMSU, ULL and Idaho

2002; 8-5; wins over Nichols St., ASU, ULL, ULM, ID, NMSU, MUTS and Cincy

2003; 9-4; wins over Baylor, ULL, ID, USU, MUTS, Troy, ULM, ASU, & NMSU

2004; 7-5; wins over MUTS, USU, NMSU, ULM, ULL, ID, ASU

Please show me one quality win based on rankings other than Cincinnati. Every team on this list was ranked below us and typically in the Bottom 10 or 15 of all D1A schools.

DD's Bad Loses:

01: South Florida, ULM

02: South Florida, Arizona

03: Air Force, Memphis

04: FAU, Baylor, USM

Add in this year to date and DD's overall record is: 30-24

Win over MUTS

Bad Loses: All three, Tulsa, KSU, Troy because of how NT either was blown out or did not perform.

Sure, 30-24 looks good, but look at how we have lost. Even to the UT's and OU's of the world where I don't expect to win we looked horrible, not even competitive other than the defensive performance against UT with the 8 sacks.

I have watched the facilities improve, donations/season tickets improve and the talent of the recruits improve, yet we are less competitive in OOC games, our players don't look prepared or fired-up and DD still bad mouths the fans, facilities and university. Not Good.

Edited October 10, 2005 by UNTLifer

NCMeanGreen · October 10, 2005

UNTLifer, I just want to say THANK YOU for keeping it real. I know most of us cannot, or will not, admit it but what you say is all true.

The fact is, how many teams in the nation would look pretty good beating up on the lowly SB Conference schools? ANY good team from ANY other Division IA conference should be able to beat most of the SB schools. The fact that we do in on a weekly basis, win the SB Conference, and go to the NO Bowl every year (where we proceed to get our ARSES handed to us!) should not necessarily be a good indication of the progress/success of a team and/or head coach.

To me, and this is just my opinion here folks, I would look more at the OOC record, especially the teams that we SHOULD/COULD have beaten, such as (and in no particular order) AFA, S. Florida, TCU, Tulsa, Arizona, Southern Miss, Colorado State, etc.

I may have even missed some teams above. Look, the point is we have not really gained THAT much National respect (and we all piss and moan about this) because no one cares that we spank the 115th ranked team in the country. My God, we should be embarrassed to even think there is a possibility we might lose to the bottom ten teams in the country. HOPEFULLY we are all striving to become a team that is at least in the Top 50 nationally every year, and people can say, "Yeah...NT is a damn good football club!"

Well, we will NEVER get there with DD because he CANNOT win the OOC games (oh...sorry, he did beat Nichols State a couple years back, didn't he), plays an extremely boring, unimaginative game, runs the same type of game every game (as in does not know how to change-it-up for each new opponent), and the list can just go on.

Be truthful...we all somewhat liked DD when we were winning, going to the Bowl, gained some National pub, and felt like Kings in the SB. Well...that reign is over my friends...

Edited October 10, 2005 by NCMeanGreen

SilverEagle · October 10, 2005

To put a little more reality on this.

The 2001 win over NMSU took a timely (and miracle) hit on the RB to dislodge the football and then a miracle pass play at the very end. Otherwise we lose that game.

The win over ASU in 02 required a miracle throw and catch from Smith to *Marshall in the waning moments of the game.

*2The win over NMSU in 2003 took a last minute drive and a FG with seconds remaining.

The win over USU in 04 took a miracle play by T.J. Covington to preserve the win.

* let it be noted that any sort of catch by Marshall was a miracle.

*2 yes, I realize that we didn't have to win that game in order to be champs and go to NO.

Edited October 10, 2005 by SilverEagle

DeepGreen · October 10, 2005

UNTLifer, I just want to say THANK YOU for keeping it real. I know most of us cannot, or will not, admit it but what you say is all true.
The fact is, how many teams in the nation would look pretty good beating up on the lowly SB Conference schools? ANY good team from ANY other Division IA conference should be able to beat most of the SB schools.
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The sad fact is, WE are now a lowly Sun Belt team. And although I believe we have benefitted somewhat from our four conference championships and bowl appearances, we still do not sign enought quality recruits to take us to the next level. I'm no coach, but if you are going play smash mouth football with a running game then your offensive line better be D1A size and depth.

And for the record, I'm off on this "stealth recruiting" philosophy. Yes, we can land a few nice recruits each year, but gosh, look at the busts and grade casualties we've had.

eulesseagle · October 10, 2005

UNTLIFER--

You make some excellent points but:

1. During this time we were 1-11 against BCS schools. It is difficult, but not impossilbe for Mid-Major programs to win against BCS schools like Tx, OU, K-State, Alabama, Texas Tech and Arkansas. I am in agreement we should have/could have won against Arizona. Naturally our loan win was against Baylor.

2. During this time we were 1-7 against other Mid-Major OOC programs. To me that is more disappointing than the loses against the BCS schools. We should have won at least 50% or more of those games.

3. We were 1-0 against the only D-1AA program we played, Nichols State.

Granted, when we said goodby to the Southland Conference and got in the BWC it was a step up from where we were in D-1AA. The SBC was a step up from the BWC but now there is no BWC and the SBC holds the spot where the BWC was.

We turned the WAC down for obvious reasons....the travel. Can you imagine how much LaTech doles out annually for all the men's and women's travel in the "World Athletic Conference?" California-Idaho-Hawaii.....If I was a student athelete at LaTech going to Hawaii would be cool once a year but the financial people must go nuts on the expenses and particularly now with the increase of fuel. That was an excellent move for UNT to turn that money trap down.

Like I have said before UNT needs to schedule one money game, two Mid-Major games and one D-1AA game annually. We have too much of a dispairity on playing way too many BCS programs over Mid-Major programs.

Bottom Line........got to win the OOC Mid-Major games!!!

Bottom Line........got to keep winning in the SBC!!!!!!!!!!!

This is going to be the ONLY way to get out of the SBC and into a better conference.

UNTLifer · October 10, 2005

I'm really not the type to focus on the negative, but this has become embarrassing. I don't have anything against DD the person. I think he is a good decent man, he just isn't doing it for me as a coach.

North Texas is the only public university in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, pretty much from Austin north, yet we keep trudging along. We should expect better.

I just want some of the faithful that come to DD's defense at every critical opinion to spin this one positively.

Edited October 10, 2005 by UNTLifer

UNTLifer · October 10, 2005

UNTLIFER--
You make some excellent points but:
1. During this time we were 1-11 against BCS schools. It is difficult, but not impossilbe for Mid-Major programs to win against BCS schools like Tx, OU, K-State, Alabama, Texas Tech and Arkansas. I am in agreement we should have/could have won against Arizona. Naturally our loan win was against Baylor.
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That's why I didn't bring most of these games up. We should have beaten Baylor both times and Arizona. We got jobbed at Arizona, but it shouldn't have even been that close.

Again, look at my post. I never mentioned the losses to UT, OU, etc....

During this timeframe, we have what I would call two quality wins: Baylor and Cincy. The Baylor win was only quality, because of what it meant to beat a local Big XII school. It wasn't because Baylor was good that year.

eulesseagle · October 10, 2005

UNTLIFER--

The facts that you have presented speak for themselves.

It is ok to be ambigous with some of the writings to present OPEN OPINIONS but when you lay the "STATS" on the table then nobody can dispute evidence.

Bottom line, again, is that we have got to win the OCC games, specifically, against other Mid-Major programs like ourselves.

ntsumgspe · October 10, 2005

So who do you have in mind to coach the Mean Green ?

UNTLifer · October 10, 2005

So who do you have in mind to coach the Mean Green ?
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I don't know, but I'm sure there are many out there that would jump at the chance. Who thought we would attract a University of Washington assistant, Simon, to North Texas when our record was so poor? I know Simon didn't pan out, but many of you act like this is an unappealing job.

These would be my requirements:

1. Good recruiter: must have ties to the Texas high school market.

2. Motivator: must be able to motivate the masses, students, alumni and citizens of Denton County to support the program.

3. Run an exciting brand of football that attracts fans. Aggressive on both sides of the ball.

Go after DeLoach for all I care, but the current attitude has to change.

ADLER · October 10, 2005

3. We were 1-0 against the only D-1AA program we played, Nichols State.
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I'm not wanting to throw fuel on the fire, but we are 1 and 3 against D-1AA programs during that period.

We beat Nichols State, but lost to South Florida, Troy State, and Florida Atlantic. All three were provisional schools that had already announced their intentions to move to 1A the following year, but were still at the 1AA scholarship limit when they beat us.

eulesseagle · October 10, 2005

ntsumgspe-

I am not advocating a coaching change.

In my opinion DD has done a great job at UNT at rebuilding the program. Some say his OOC record is horrible.....agree......but look who we have played in the BCS programs in the last 3 years (1-11). Agree that we should have won more Mid-Major games during this same time frame you mention (1-7).

I believe that DD is commited to this program and that he does not want to fail. Who does?? I support RV/DD/RF and what they have done.

DD has been able to find the talent in Texas & Oklahoma that others overlook. He has a great reputation with the high school coaches, what I have heard, in Tx and Ok..

I would 120% agree that a new stadium would help our recruiting and possibly get us out of the SBC.....but until then Fouts will be the eye sore of I-35.

I disagree with overloading our schedule with so many BCS schools.

Bottom Line is that we DO NOT need a new coach. What we need is a new stadium.

UNTFan23 · October 10, 2005

Bottom Line is that we DO NOT need a new coach. What we need is a new stadium.
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How does a new stadium change the way players perform or the coaches make adjustments to their game plan?

UNTLifer · October 10, 2005

eulesseagle, I agree we need a new stadium, but how does a new stadium change any of the following:

Poor gameplans or no variance in the gameplan depending upon the competition

Lack of emotion

Lack of in-game adjustments

Bad mouthing the fans

The appearance that the team has accepted defeat to the BcS schools instead of competing.

Lack of discipline.

Edited October 10, 2005 by UNTLifer

Eagle-96 · October 10, 2005

eulesseagle, I agree we need a new stadium, but how does a new stadium change any of the following:
Poor gameplans or no variance in the gameplan depending upon the competition
Lack of emotion
Lack of in-game adjustments
Bad mouthing the fans
The appearance that the team has accepted defeat to the BcS schools instead of competing.
Lack of discipline.
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It will magically change everything. We will start selling out games because, after all, most fans attend games because of what the stadium is like. They don't care about the product on the field. I mean just look what Ford has done for SMU. They have been selling out games like crazy and they are beating BCS teams left and right now that all the recruits want to go there. Yeah right.

Harry · October 10, 2005

- A couple of thoughts. The Sun Belt is where we are. That is by no fault of DD's. It is the fault of prior administrations. I sense that people want to lay the blame on Dickey because we are in the Sun Belt - it isn't his fault it is ours.

- Dickey has won four straight conference championships. Some like UNT Lifer and others will downplay this and say that it is a sorry conference etc. Again, I restate, it is our conference, it is the conference that we play in and recruit against. Regardless of what your opinion is of the Sun Belt winning 4 bowls is a major accomplishment - one that Fry and many others who are revered around here couldn't accomplish in their time here. 4 straight Bowl games and national television appearances have done wonders for the image of this program.

- Some have short memories. We were - at best - an average I-AA program. Sure we had the big upsets of downtrodden SWC team now and again, and beat a post death penalty SMU but all in all we did not win more than we lost. Some state that Fry would have accomplished more if given the situation Dickey faced. I have a lot of respect for Fry but it is in the very least debatable as to whether or not he would have fared any better than Dickey. When Fry was coach, NTSU was getting the leftovers of the SWC in recruiting. Now we have a couple dozen other BCS caliber programs recruiting in our region, not to mention CUSA/Mountain West and others. It's a different world, it's not fair to compare them.

- I would love to see how the 2002 team would have fared against this years schedule. Unfortunately most of the players on that team aren't here anymore. We suffered some key losses to graduation and academics. We are young at many positions including quarterback and the defensive line.

- The Troy loss hurt (13-10) but I thought our defense fought hard and gave us a chance to win that game. I am not yet ready to give up on this team and I hope that they will continue to improve as the season goes on. I am watching the La. Tech game and the remainder of the SBC slate closely.

- It is very clear that we need help in several areas, namely the offensive and defensive lines. This is not necessarily a Dickey phenomenon, as many mid-majors struggle to get the better linemen. I think they landed a quality one in TJ Raymond but ended up losing him to grades. Is this Dickey's fault? I think it is TJ's fault primarily, but I also think that you need to have an academic support structure in place to assist the student athletes that need extra help.

- To not think that we would hit a bump in the road along the way from where we have been was probably naive and count me among the guilty here. The first major problem is starting a quarterback that had no college experience. That is probably the hardest deficiency to overcome.

- I think it would be wise® to question the coaching after the season is over. There is still a lot of football left to be played and we should assess the season in aggregate. I believe to start down the road of whether Dickey deserves to be here is premature.

- I share the pain of losing like we did to Tulsa at home and then Troy in front of good crowds. Those losses sting. I'm sure Dickey feels the same way. As bad as those losses hurt, let's see how he and the team respond in the remainder of the season and not be too quick to judge.

Cooley · October 10, 2005

I'd like to see a coach get 1 metroplex kid (top 100) to list UNT in their top 5 choices (in October.)

El Paso Eagle · October 10, 2005

- Dickey has won four straight conference championships. Some like UNT Lifer and others will downplay this and say that it is a sorry conference etc. Again, I restate, it is our conference, it is the conference that we play in and recruit against. Regardless of what your opinion is of the Sun Belt winning 4 bowls is a major accomplishment - one that Fry and many others who are revered around here couldn't accomplish in their time here. 4 straight Bowl games and national television appearances have done wonders for the image of this program.
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Harry,

Your points are valid but the fact is that the team’s total failure in OOC games only highlights how poor the Sun Belt has been. If it is agreed that the Belt has been the worst 1-A conference then the success DD has obtained has been tainted. This is highlighted by this very thread in as much as the “pre” Belt years are left off.

the green rokemi · October 10, 2005

Do I think DD is a great coach? No, but at the same time he has recruited us to 4 straight conference titles. That being said, if he needs a year to rebuild than so be it. Let's see our players grow this year and reassess where we are next season...we can't just buy out a coach that just signed an extension...

El Paso Eagle · October 10, 2005

Do I think DD is a great coach? No, but at the same time he has recruited us to 4 straight conference titles. That being said, if he needs a year to rebuild than so be it. Let's see our players grow this year and reassess where we are next season...we can't just buy out a coach that just signed an extension...
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Question - Are we rebuilding into a team that can and will compete in OOC games, or the team that only seems to perform in Sun Belt games?

H-towngreen · October 10, 2005

It's pretty much a fact, that after 3-4 good years any team will need a year to rebuild. This is our rebuilding year. Look at TCU, yes I know they lost to SMU, a disappointing year last year but now they are 5-1 and ranked #25. You have to reload and it takes time. Just wait till next year, I guarantee we will praising DD and the players.

Arkstfan · October 10, 2005

The Belt is no worse than the Big West was. It's not like UNT got a pass joining the Sun Belt.

While no one is claiming the Belt is a beast, the current Sun Belt members since 2001 have wins over:

Vanderbilt (3 times)

Mississippi State

Missouri

Hawaii

Tulsa

Marshall (2 times)

UAB (2 times)

UConn

Akron

Baylor

Cincinnati

Of those 15 wins, UNT has contributed 2.

The conference cannot recruit for you nor can it provide coaches. It can eliminate the need to find X number of opponents each year (in the Belt X=7). It can provide television opportunities. It can provide post-season play opportunities. UNT has taken advantage of the scheduling and produced baskets of wins. UNT has not been as effective in taking advantage of the TV opportunities or the post-season opportunities but the responsiblity for that rests with UNT, not the Sun Belt.

IslandEagle · October 10, 2005

Question - Are we rebuilding into a team that can and will compete in OOC games, or the team that only seems to perform in Sun Belt games?
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Dickey has said more than once over the past few months that he wants to win more OOC games. Since he usually says what he wants and doesn't play to the fans, I assume that he sees that as the next step, though obviously his first step is assessing what all is wrong with the current team and either trying to correct that or use that information for recruiting this year. If he doesn't win conference, as now seems likely, you can bet he will be hitting the trail extra hard. One year down can happen to any team Two years down starts a vicious dowward cycle that can be hard to overcome. I think that DD understands that.

eulesseagle · October 11, 2005

UNTLIFER---

The teams EMOTION, BAD MOUTHING AND DISCIPLINE, in my opionion is the lack of SENIOR leadership on the team. Scott Hall was the leader on the team for the last 3 years. Has anyone heard of one of the seniors steping up for the leadership role. Usually that is the QB.

DD is responsible for the game plan and adjustments. In the past he has had the ability to be myopic on his run...run...run offense. The last two games he has had to be a little more innovative in using the pass. Like I pointed out earlier the last two games about 45% of his plays were pass. Maybe we will see a metamorphasis of DD from now to the end of the year with more flexibility/innovation.

The teams defeatist attitude...I have no contact with any of the players so I really dont know what is going on in their heads......But......the last 3 years and including this season we have been beaten by BCS teams by an average score of 39 to 8.

UNTFan23 · October 11, 2005

UNTLIFER---
The teams EMOTION, BAD MOUTHING AND DISCIPLINE, in my opionion is the lack of SENIOR leadership on the team. Scott Hall was the leader on the team for the last 3 years. Has anyone heard of one of the seniors steping up for the leadership role. Usually that is the QB.

Hate to say this, but I think we lead the conference in penalty yards last year. A lot of those yards were from unnecessary unsportmanship/personal fouls. This has been a continuing problem over the years. In the past though we had enough offense to overcome such mistakes. This year, well, we need to make as few mistakes as possible if we're not going to get blown out.

DD is responsible for the game plan and adjustments. In the past he has had the ability to be myopic on his run...run...run offense. The last two games he has had to be a little more innovative in using the pass. Like I pointed out earlier the last two games about 45% of his plays were pass. Maybe we will see a metamorphasis of DD from now to the end of the year with more flexibility/innovation.

The thing I see most lacking in imagination is using misdirection to get an over-aggressive defense to bite hard on a play. Most every play we run it's easy to tell what we're doing exactly.

The teams defeatist attitude...I have no contact with any of the players so I really dont know what is going on in their heads......But......the last 3 years and including this season we have been beaten by BCS teams by an average score of 39 to 8.
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Nothing like a 5-to-1 scoring margin. I'm sure most any elite B©S program would schedule (I mean pay) us with such good numbers.

I also wonder what the average score is for all OOC games is, seeing how we've won so few of them. I bet the ratio goes down to something like 3-to-1.