How much PT should Phillips get?

[gangrene]

DD has insisted all along that two QBs would see plenty of action this year. When it was thought that Byerly would be the starter, he said Meager would play as well.

Now that Byerly is out of the picture, he's suggested that Phillips would start playing more, yet we've seen very little of him.

Meager now has four games under his belt and only one of those games was against what I would consider to be superior competition. Some of you claim to see weekly improvement from Meager but I just can't agree.

Phillips has had VERY limited playing time thus far but I've seen a lot of promise in this kid.

My question is this: how much PT should Phillips get against FIU (i.e. 1Q, 4 series, etc) and when should he be put in the game (i.e. mop up time)???

[Monkeypox]

None of those answers really fit, but here's where I would put him in.

If we don't do anything offensively for our first three series or so, put Phillips in on the next one. Give him a few series and see what happens.

I HATE this, but believe it's what needs to be done, at this point.

Edited October 7, 2005 by Monkeypox

[buff64]

This decision should and will be left entirely to the coaching staff.They see the performance of all the QB's in practice everyday and base playing time on those performances. We should hope that both ,or all the QB's, continue to improve and are ready when called on.

[PlummMeanGreen]

If 2 or more of Meager's (catchable) passes are caught the other night, we don't have this poll because a handful of our oscillating/vascillating fickle fan base would be extolling the virtues of Dan Meager; some who diss him now would be wondering how quickly we could get him in the NT Athletic Hall of Fame. I mean this is what we are getting these days from posters who I wonder if they themselves ever played the game.

According to what I read of Phillips forty yard line speed in DAVE CAMPBELL'S TEXAS FOOTBALL, he would not have had the speed to score the rushing TD that Meager scored the other night.

Like one of our best and older alums emailed me yesterday, Meager is going to be a good QB and be just fine, but that will probably be next year after he takes his knocks this year.

I think right now, we have other concerns much bigger than QB and when those concerns are addressed, the QB at NT will be one of its biggest beneficiaries.

Edited October 7, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[GoMeanGreen1999]

I personally (though I am not a coach) think that it is a bad for team chemistry to constantly be changing from two different players at one postion, as it hurts the flow of the team. That being said,

I find it increasingly funny each game I watch, that DD refuses to play Phillips when the week of the first game, he couldn't decide which QB would start, due to the race being that close. If it was in fact that close, then he really had trouble deciding which QB had the upper hand. So then why does he refuse to play Phillips when Meager is taking our offense NO WHERE?

The other thing I find funny, is that apparently we have the same problem at RB in that we have two guys with the same ability. Now I understand there is a little bit of a difference here, but seriously. How much better might this team flow if one running back was used most of the time? Yet DD just keeps sending each out there rotating them.

I don't know, just something I was thinking for my two cents on this subject.

[gangrene]

This decision should and will be left entirely to the coaching staff.They see the performance of all the QB's in practice everyday and base playing time on those performances. We should hope that both ,or all the QB's, continue to improve and are ready when called on.

←

While that's true, not everyone is capable of performing in live-game situations the same way they perform in practice.

If 2 or more of Meager's (catchable) passes are caught the other night, we don't have this poll because a handful of our oscillating/vascillating fickle fan base would be extolling the virtues of Dan Meager; some who diss him now would be wondering how quickly we could get him in the NT Athletic Hall of Fame.  I mean this is what we are getting these days from posters who I wonder if they themselves ever played the game.

According to what I read of Phillips forty yard line speed in DAVE CAMPBELL'S TEXAS FOOTBALL, he would not have had the speed to score the rushing TD that Meager scored the other night.

Like one of our best and older alums emailed me yesterday, Meager is going to be a good QB and be just fine, but that will probably be next year after he takes his knocks this year.  

I think right now, we have other concerns much bigger than QB and when those concerns are addressed, the QB at NT will be one of its biggest beneficiaries.

←

Plumm - First of all, questioning whether or not I myself "ever played the game" has very little to do with my ability to determine performance and I take that as a personal attack. One of the best college coaches for QBs right now is Mike Leach and he never played college ball. That being said, it is the knowledge I received from playing the game that allows me to recognize all the many problems Meager is having.

1. He telegraphs every pass, never taking his eye off of the intended receiver. That makes it very easy for a DB to bait him and then step in front of the receiver for a pick.

2. He can't throw on the run. Anytime he rolls out of the pocket, you can expect the ball to be bounced or thrown behind the receiver.

3. His decision-making ability is horrendous and he has trouble reading defenses.

I completely disagree with your theory that "if 2 or more of his passes were caught the other night..." because he had sooo many passes that were off the mark and uncatchable. Besides, that DD has said that Phillips would continue to see "playing time" but did not define how much. By any definition, playing time means at least one play. My point in starting this poll was curiosity about how others feel. Meager threw two interceptions and the blame for both lies predominantly on his shoulders.

As far as what you read in Dave Campbell's...maybe Meager is faster than Phillips but I don't think this team really needs a running QB. We need someone who can complete a few passes down the field and take some pressure off the O-line and running game.

I know I've been very boisterous on my criticism of Meager, but I've seen some positive things from him as well. That pass to Stickler was on the money and, despite the fact that Stickler had difficulty judging the ball, that's a pass a D-1 receiver has to make. However, a few good passes a game does not make a great QB. It's all the other things I see that lead me to believe someone else needs to be given a chance. Perhaps Meager WILL be better next year and it should be at that time he gets back on the field. Meager should count his blessings that he has the full support of this coaching staff and fans like you, because at most other D-1 schools his butt would have already been benched.

It's this constant babying, nursing and complacency at UNT that leaves me hopeless we will ever be able to rise above the level of mediocrity that currently exists. Yes, we have come a long way in the last five years but does that mean we need to rest on our laurels and let other schools move ahead of us??

Edited October 7, 2005 by gangrene

[gangrene]

I personally (though I am not a coach) think that it is a bad for team chemistry to constantly be changing from two different players at one postion, as it hurts the flow of the team.  That being said,

I find it increasingly funny each game I watch, that DD refuses to play Phillips when the week of the first game, he couldn't decide which QB would start, due to the race being that close.  If it was in fact that close, then he really had trouble deciding which QB had the upper hand.  So then why does he refuse to play Phillips when Meager is taking our offense NO WHERE?

The other thing I find funny, is that apparently we have the same problem at RB in that we have two guys with the same ability.  Now I understand there is a little bit of a difference here, but seriously.  How much better might this team flow if one running back was used most of the time?  Yet DD just keeps sending each out there rotating them. 

I don't know, just something I was thinking for my two cents on this subject.

←

Good post. I completely agree with what you said about our RB situation. There's no doubt that each of our great RBs have tremendous ability, but I think they cannot get into a rhythm when they keep getting rotated. It takes time from the O-line and RB to learn each other and to gel together. JT and PC have two different running styles and read downfield blocks differently. While it would really suck for one back to be relegated to back-up duty, I think it would be beneficial to the team in the long run.

Edited October 7, 2005 by gangrene

[Eagle1855]

when was the last time rotating QB's actually worked for a college football program?

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Well I am not suggesting that it will work here, but I am suggesting that if we are going to rotate RB's (which is not at this time working), then we should rotate QB's too. At this point in time, rotating QB's would give us a chance to see them both in game time situations. Who knows.

I agree though, rotating doesn't work, though some coach tries it every year.

[gangrene]

when was the last time rotating QB's actually worked for a college football program?

←

That depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Missouri and USC have rotated QBs most recently but the most successful rotation in relation to winning games that I can recall would be Nebraska, when they rotated Brooks Berringer and Tommy Frazier. They were successful because each possessed a different set of skills. Brooks was the better passing threat and Frazier was the runner.

While Phillips needs some real game experience, rotating QBs would be more detrimental to this team than sticking with Meager. I would like to see Phillips receive more playing team for the purpose of competing for the full-time starting QB position.

[UNTLifer]

Rotating quarterbacks and rotating running backs are two totally different situations. Apples to oranges.

Rotating quarterbacks is detrimental, because they are the leaders of the offense.

[eulesseagle]

This is Coach Dickey's decision on how they perform in practice!!

We want consistancy as much as possible now.

I am fine with Meager.

[NT80]

Well, we are not rotating QBs now and we are #117 in offense. Why not try the other guy for a game or two? We can not end up any worse.

[GreenBat]

Well, we are not rotating QBs now and we are #117 in offense.  Why not try the other guy for a game or two?  We can not end up any worse. 

←

There are 119 Div. 1-A teams, so we could do worse.

[Coffee and TV]

This decision should and will be left entirely to the coaching staff.They see the performance of all the QB's in practice everyday and base playing time on those performances.

←

Really now? I thought the decisions were totally left up to us know-it-alls on this message board. Man I'm really bummed

[Green92]

Really now? I thought the decisions were totally left up to us know-it-alls on this message board. Man I'm really bummed

Know-it-alls on this board, I think you have us confused with some other board.

[NT80]

There are 119 Div. 1-A teams, so we could do worse.  

←

I believe two are provisional and the NCAA is only ranking 117 units; but whatever the number is...we are dead last...time to change something!

[ntmeangreen11]

They ruined his redshirt, Meager hasn't been performing up to hype, why the hell wouldnt they put him in there and see what hes got?

[Monkeypox]

I wouldn't suggest a rotation with the idea that it would bring us immediate success. I believe that at this point we need to find out which of our QBs is most capable, for next year and beyond.

We can't really get much worse offensively. And I agree with whoever said if we were at another school, Meager would've been benched already.

[NDT]

Are you sure that they have ruined his redshirt? I thought a little playing time early on did not automatically preclude a redshirt. I suppose that I could be wrong.

[Monkeypox]

Are you sure that they have ruined his redshirt?  I thought a little playing time early on did not automatically preclude a redshirt.  I suppose that I could be wrong.

←

You play for a single snap and you can't get a redshirt unless you're a BCS player who gets severely injured or, of course, drunk a lot.

[FirefightnRick]

His decision-making ability is horrendous and he has trouble reading defenses.

I agree with most of your oppinions on this subject other than this statement gangreen, in that Danny isn't taught to "READ" defenses in this system like what most would believe. Let me explain. For years we have been wondering why our passing seems so watered down? It became apparant to some that Hall/Smith never seemed to audible. Plus, if we pass, we pass regardless if the reciever was there or not, unless the QB is forced to run. Later on in his carreer Hall learned to throw it away more if the reciever on that side of his rollouts(ALWAYS an indication of a pass...ALWAYS) was covered. Finally, last year there was a report on Scott Hall, DD, Flanigan and our offense and it revealed what many here had guessed for years. In the report Hall admitted to the reporter that, unlike most high schools, we do not allow our QB to audible out of the play. Scott stated he could change which side the play is to go to, but he could not audible out of the called play. It explained a lot, at least to me it did.

Therefore, it is my oppinion from the fact that this inept offense not only handcuffs the most powerful weapon on the field, the QB, from allowing him to change the play at the line of scrimmage, I also do not believe the QB checks off recievers.

One reason for this oppinion:

You never see our QB's roll out and throw towards a covered WR(either throwing it away or forcing it, making a bad read) while everyone on the sideline and in the stadium is yelling for him to look at some other reciever that the defense allowed to slip by and getting wide open. You know those: AH, look, look, look, he's wide, he's wide, Ahhh No, no damnit he was wide open!!!! type of plays. I know this doesn't happen a lot of times with other programs, but you see it now and then. Never at NT.

Also,

The "OTHER" reciever knows the ball isn't coming his way so you always see him get down field, clearing his man, then start to block with his back to the ball. If he was an option, he would be trying to gain separation by continuing his route or coming back, instead of blocking away from the play.

Read those last two lines...again. If you have watched enough Mean Green football these past 8 years, this makes perfect sense for what you have seen.

I would like to propose a question to everyone. Not including punters or Brian Waters, who's the last offensive player to make it to the NFL? 4 conference championships now, surely somone made it, right?

Still pulling my hair out!

Rick

Edited October 8, 2005 by FirefightnRick

[vpackrats]

I would like to propose a question to everyone.  Not including punters or Brian Waters, who's the last offensive player to make it to the NFL these past 8 years?  4 conference championships now, surely somone made it, right?

Still pulling my hair out!

Rick

←

Rick, I know you're on the anti-Buick wagon right now, but that last point kind of hurts your case right now instead of helps it. NFL scouts spot talent when they see it, no matter what school (A few examples: Larry Allen -- Sonoma State, Patrick Crayton -- Northwestern Oklahoma State & Demarcus Ware -- Troy). The fact we've been able to win 4 Sun Belt Conference Championships w/only ONE guy getting drafted all these years (Cody Spencer to the Raiders) tells me coaching must be one of the key ingredients for our success.

Or, to put it another way...why were all the Ohio State alumni so eager to see John Cooper get the boot? 'Cuz that guy was turning out not just NFL talent, but numerous 1st round talent year after year & yet Michigan, Wisconsin, etc were the dominant Big 10 teams. He didn't get the job done. Dickey has gotten the job done, despite having no NFL talent on his roster (not trying to compare conferences here ), but hopefully you get my point. Think about it ....

[NT80]

The fact we've been able to win 4 Sun Belt Conference Championships w/only ONE guy getting drafted all these years (Cody Spencer to the Raiders) tells me coaching must be one of the key ingredients for our success.

←

It could just be that the SunBelt is a REALLY lousy conference, considering we've only beaten a poor Cincy team in the New Orleans Bowl after those 4 championships. Humm...come to think about it, what good OOC teams have we beat under DD?? How many maginal ones have we lost to in that same time?

[FirefightnRick]

Rick, I know you're on the anti-Buick wagon right now, but that last point kind of hurts your case right now instead of helps it. NFL scouts spot talent when they see it, no matter what school (A few examples: Larry Allen -- Sonoma State, Patrick Crayton -- Northwestern Oklahoma State & Demarcus Ware -- Troy).

No, I'm on the anti-Our offense wagon. And most who know me personally know I have been so for 8 years now. Maybe I should have explained that better.

Without specualting about the other positions, although you would have thought if anyone had the best shot on offense to make it that Zuniga would have. He got an invite to the combine but that was it. And it looks as if Patrick will get his shot as well, we will see. I should have said, you won't see any QB's getting looks from this system. I'm not saying Danny couldn't make it or not. But I'm guessing that he could start the next 3 years and won't get enough opportunities to get anything on tape or during games to show what he can do to a defense.

Rick