DANG IT!

greenshadow · October 7, 2005

if winning can't bring quality recruits (winning 4 SBC Championships is what the DD supporters hang there hat on) then how is a new stadium gonna do the trick when we're losing (see SMU). I will give credit that DD has been consistent. A consistent OOC record and SBC record. So if consistency proves itself right in this situation we still won't be able to compete in OOC games and we'll be rocking the sorry SBC with a half full brand new stadium...THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT

I can't wait to here (years from now) how things will just be better once we get a dome put on our stadium.

OK, LET THE EXCUSES BEGIN.

ADLER · October 7, 2005

If winning can't bring quality recruits (winning 4 SBC Championships is what the DD supporters hang their hats on) then how is a new stadium going to do the trick when we're losing (see SMU). I will give credit that DD has been consistent. A consistent OOC record and SBC record. So if consistency proves itself right in this situation we still won't be able to compete in OOC games and we'll be rocking the sorry SBC with a half full brand new stadium...THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT
I can't wait to hear (years from now) how things will just be better once we get a dome put on our stadium.
OK, LET THE EXCUSES BEGIN.
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I don't think the whole future is doomed because we have lost a few games to start this season. A lot has been accomplished in the past 5 years, and this rebuilding year won't affect the overall plans for the program.

Edited October 7, 2005 by ADLER

PlummMeanGreen · October 7, 2005

It's been posted numerous times on this forum that a new football stadium at NT must be complemented with a winning football program for all of this to work. That is the formula we must have in Denton. SMU has a nice beautiful football stadium but they opened it right in the middle of a 3 decade long losing streak--hardly the way to break in a new football stadium.

Yet at NT we all but did the same thing that SMU did with their Gerald J. Ford Stadium when we opened the Super Pit back in the 1972/1973 basketball season. When we opened our new on-campus basketball facility, we had many who thought NT would make the next expected move of elevating its hiring and its recruiting, but post-Bill Blakely, we hired coaches who would have been better suited at an NCAA Division II school recruiting for a facility much like our old Men's Gym.

YOU CAN'T DO ONE WITHOUT DOING THE OTHER: You can't half-ass it in NCAA Division 1 athletics I think we'd all agree. If you get a new faciility, the next usual (expected) step is to raise the level (and expectation) of your recruiting classes to accomodate your school's new venue. You also would expect your alums/fans to do their part and take their part to the next level by joining the MG Club in record numbers and buying season tickets like they're going out of style.

Speaking of going half-assed? I think most of you are aware by now that Troy U's head football coach gets paid much more than another SBC coach who only took his team to 4 bowl games in a row. Also, that Troy U coach is already recruiting (obviously) talanted recruits toward that new football stadium I think we'd also agree, too? Did you see Troy U's new stadium on ESPN last year when the hosted and beat Missouri? New stadiums can't help you recruit players to do that, can they?

One of Troy's alums has posted photos just today of TU's football stadium's luxury suites in another thread on GMG.com Funny how we have some at NT who still don't think we need a new football stadium. Wonder if Hayden Fry could have spoken with that hardy handful this week if they would change their minds about that subject and lay it to rest? I'd put money on it that after such a talk with Fry that they would.

BACK TO THE SUPER PIT: At NT, when we opened the Super Pit, many just thought the rest would simply take care of itself while during that era we saw no significant improvement of our recruiting, no significant growth in the Mean Green Club as to raise monies to help our coach's have funds to recruit outside Texas or (in general) any noticeable elevation of the level of our basketball program. We had a great basketball facility in Denton, Texas, that was the best on campus BB facility in Texas for many years yet with average basketball teams most of the time because we hired average personel who recruited average basketball classes.

After NT basketball coach Bill Blakely was fired, many still thought the Super Pit would be the magnet to advance our program, but we kept going the cheap route in Denton by hiring personel who might have had a problem getting a job at an NCAA D2 school (and after they left NT, some of that group were even lucky to get a Texas high school job; we also seemed to hire coaches at NT who apparently thought recruiting was some kind of necessary evil with the way they approached it with sub-par recruits that produced sub-par basketball seasons.

We also went into the usual "North Texas two-step" of trying to have major college athletics with alums who would much rather offer their opinions of everything under the sun that is wrong rather than give their dollars no matter what amount. We seem to always want Big Time sports at NT w/o any personal $acrifice.

..........................................................................

Changing the subject, it is also amazing how you never see a hardy handful of posters on GMG.com when things are rolling right along, but they come out of the woodwork when it looks like the old Mean Green ship is sinking. Also, many of that group rarely offer any positive solutions to problems but rather offer non-stop theories of "How To Burn The Whole Damn Barn Down To Kill The Mouse at UNT."

It seems we have a few of our posters who would be very comfortable living in an environment such as you used to get in Salem, Massachusetts, too, because they sure as hell are trying to create such a similar environment in Denton, Texas, America.

Edited October 7, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

greenshadow · October 7, 2005

I guess if you're happy with what's on the field then you'll be pleased, but if you'd like to see the level of play and recruiting go up in the last five years then you either be happy with what we've got or just move on. I can understand rebuilding, but I would have liked seeing a nice 2-story home rather than shed being built over the last 5 years. Being the best of the worst is just great.

PlummMeanGreen · October 7, 2005

I guess if you're happy with what's on the field then you'll be pleased, but if you'd like to see the level of play and recruiting go up in the last five years then you either be happy with what we've got or just move on. I can understand rebuilding, but I would have liked seeing a nice 2-story home rather than shed being built over the last 5 years. Being the best of the worst is just great.
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In 2002 we were not the best of the worst, we beat the CUSA football co-champion and that was an accomplishment no matter how some on this board want to pooh-pooh even that or what some on GMG.com thought of Cincy' (who I reiterate, still beat a pretty damn good TCU team that same year when we won a bowl game). Again, like Troy U, we take our program to the next level when we (like Troy U) have a new football stadium. Have you ever seen what Troy U's former football stadium looked like? Fouts looked like the Taj Mahal compared to TU's old football stadium.

You want to be the NT head football coach in the present day "facility arms race" that is what NCAA D1-A is all about these days? I wouldn't.

Granted, Hayden and Corky won with less facilities (although when both were at NT, we also claimed "Texas Stadium" as our "major collegiate" home and even took recruits to visit it over Fouts Field many times--we don't do that any longer), but that was another era before NCAA D1-A facilities became such a focal point for progressive recruiting in this new era when potential HS recruits look at the whole package of football-related facilities that a D1-A school better by-golly have.

Ask MeanGreenPop how important facilities are. We are trying to recruit his other son who Rivals is now ranking quite nicely. And a son I believe we have a chance of recruiting "IF" some of our posters don't run him off with some negative, pointless and continuous "what our problems are" kind of posts (without offering any semblance of a positive solution or donations to help solve some of those problems).

Move on? I've been faithfully following this football program since September of 1973, so I guess I'll just hang around a while longer. Move on? I am amused with the the very thought.

And to be honest about it all, I'm more disappointed with some of the responses of some of our fans during a football season that is not even completed than with our Mean Green football team.

Edited October 7, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

LongJim · October 7, 2005

I think a new stadium would be great for the school and the athletic dept. The Super Pit is still a first-class facility for basketball--probably the best I've been to as far as being close to the action and loud. It's terrific. IMO, it would be great to have a football facility that's first class, as well.

Fouts is great, and traditional and all, but it's not a first-class facility anymore, and is limited in the revenue it can generate. If UNT wants to do D1 right, then I believe they need to go all the way with everything, because it shows potential alums, recruits, and the area that they're serious about being first-class, and not half-ass.

A D1 football program should not have facilities that could be considered inferior to the high school facilities across town, (Collins) or across the county. (NWISD)

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 7, 2005

You can use the "if we had a new stadium our recruiting would go up" all you want, but I just don't buy into that. Yes it would be nice to have a new one, and yes it might help a little, but in the grand scheme of recruiting it will not matter that much. Look at the Super Pit. Players walk into that and go "wow, I would like to play here?" Then they come to a game and go "good gosh, nice place, but no one is here to watch them play." Fan support and winning go hand in hand.

UNTLifer · October 7, 2005

I really don't think our recruiting has been that bad. I really believe the problem is that the coaching staff is not utilizing the opportunities to prepare the players to move into the starting line-up. I would have liked to see us sign a QB or two and some players from the Metroplex that were ranked by the recruiting services, but we have recruited the Houston area and Oklahoma well. Again, I question whether the players are being prepared to step into the starting lineup properly.

Got5onIt · October 7, 2005

I really don't think our recruiting has been that bad. I really believe the problem is that the coaching staff is not utilizing the opportunities to prepare the players to move into the starting line-up. I would have liked to see us sign a QB or two and some players from the Metroplex that were ranked by the recruiting services, but we have recruited the Houston area and Oklahoma well. Again, I question whether the players are being prepared to step into the starting lineup properly.
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I agree.

PlummMeanGreen · October 8, 2005

I think a new stadium would be great for the school and the athletic dept. The Super Pit is still a first-class facility for basketball--probably the best I've been to as far as being close to the action and loud. It's terrific. IMO, it would be great to have a football facility that's first class, as well.
Fouts is great, and traditional and all, but it's not a first-class facility anymore, and is limited in the revenue it can generate. If UNT wants to do D1 right, then I believe they need to go all the way with everything, because it shows potential alums, recruits, and the area that they're serious about being first-class, and not half-ass.
A D1 football program should not have facilities that could be considered inferior to the high school facilities across town, (Collins) or across the county. (NWISD)
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LongJim, your posts on GMG.com and you being a Texas Ex have been most inspiring. You represent a microcosm of what we need to be doing in Denton County and that is going after Texas Exes, Former Students at TAMU, Big 10 alums and the like when you all are not at your respective schools supporing your schools we want all of you in Mean Green Country on Game Day on our campus.

NOTE: In your post, I highlighted in gray a prime reason we need a new stadium that doesn't get much recognition as another reason we need the new stadium at UNT.

You are right, the Super Pit is an amazing ageless facility that many outsiders might find it difficult to believe that it actually made its premier in the 1972/1973 basketball season. If one would tell some outsiders that it was built 10 years ago you would find many of that group who would believe that (albeit the fact that it has been over 30 years since it was built). NT officials have improved its interior in recent years to make a modern facility look even more modern.

Fouts Field will be replaced in a time shorter than I think most will ever believe and I've expressed that gut feeling for almost a year now. The main problem I have with Fouts besides the track is that our crowd noise accoustics are dismal. We can have good crowds at games yelling their lungs out but the noise seems to go out the north end zone en route to Gainesville

LongJim, we appreciate your support for Mean Green athletics (even though you are a Tea-Sip)!

GMG!

PS: Good luck today against the Sooners!

Edited October 8, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

FirefightnRick · October 8, 2005

4 words.

Hayden Fry.........Corky Nelson

Rick

Gator · October 8, 2005

I get the feeling that bunches of those who could care less about a new stadium have that feeling about football and all sports in general. They see nothing valuable coming from these programs.

LongJim · October 11, 2005

LongJim, your posts on GMG.com and you being a Texas Ex have been most inspiring.

Thanks! Just trying to call it like I see it.

You represent a microcosm of what we need to be doing in Denton County and that is going after Texas Exes, and the like when you all are not at your respective schools supporing your schools we want all of you in Mean Green Country on Game Day on our campus.

See, I totally agree with you. There's no way that I have the time, (w/kids' school/wife/job/etc. not to mention the $$) to get down to Austin for every home game. No way. But what are you going to do if you're still a college football fan, and you like to attend games when you can get the time? (My wife says I'm obsessed.) Around here, it's either SMU/TCU or UNT. Growing up in Denton Co., I don't have to tell you which team I support.

LongJim, we appreciate your support for Mean Green athletics (even though you are a Tea-Sip)!

Heh! Well...some do. Like most others here, I've watched UNT for years, and have a desire to see them do well. The last 4-5 years have been great, and from an outsider's perspective, I'd like to see the progress continue! There's no reason SMU or TCU should do better than "us" in D1 athletics. None!