Supporting the Longhorns and other $ schools

[eulesseagle]

I know this is too little too late but:

1. Don't all state legislatures, kind of, designate what school is going to be, "the major state school??"

2. Didn't the TX legislature designate just about all of West Tx lands to support "the" school??

3. In one of my TX History classes one prof said that Texas A&M once had to bail out the Univ. of TX in the 1870's or 1880s, financially, or they would have gone bankrupt.

4. I guess the UNT's of the world are always going to be the "ugly sisters" to all the rich universities and will probably always lack in $$ for building improvements, prestigious programs/profs and really nice 80,000 - 100,000 seat stadiums that are packed every football Saturday.

5. In the end we know that UNT will always have: the best MUSIC department in the nation, 2 MISS AMERICAS, FRY ST., Haden FRY, really good FRIED chicken, FRIED brains from posting on this board, spirited conversations with alumi so we can agree to agree or agree to disagree.

6. Wasn't Austin College really the first Texas College before it had to be moved north to avoid Indians or Malaria or something like that???

7. I tried to tip one of the concession kids delivering cokes/peanuts at the Tulsa game and he would not take it???? Said he could not take it.!!! What gives on that deal???? Is it University Policy not to TIP the walking concession kids/students???

8. Can we bring in padded seats to this game without being hassled by the front gate staff???

9. DOLLAR DOG NIGHT.....I'M THERE!!!!

[LongJim]

Just as a little comparison, our athletic budget is 12 mil right? UT's is 80 mil.  It sounds about right if you look at the size of our stadium, alumni base, FANS and winning seasons.  They sell out just about every game, and they charge good money for those tickets.  We can't understand what type of cash cow football is for that school, because it has never been an issue for us.  Why wouldn't they keep pumping money into it if they can turn a profit?

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Yepper.

Rick's links brought up some interesting figures. A couple of which were that the UT football program is now bringing in ~50 mil per year in and of itself, and that's out of around 67 million total budgeted for all sports except basketball. Around 20 million of that is from donations from the alumni!

Again: the football program GENERATES ~50 million for the athletic budget.

That is what I hope for UNT, and that's what I think UNT is shooting for. With all the new facilities and expansion, UNT can hopefully begin to generate a larger amount of cash to fund ALL their athletic programs at a higher level by putting more butts in seats, selling more UNT stuff, and hitting alumni pocketbooks. Which will (hopefully) influence recruits, generate consistent winning seasons, build ticket/donor base, and then the cycle continues...

The "big $" schools have been doing this at this level for a long time. I hope that when UNT does it--and finally has consistent success at D1 football in all aspects--that people can enjoy it for what it is, and realize it was a long time coming.

I have the feeling that you won't hear too many people pining for the days when the program "only" had $12 mil to work with. Then we'll hear: "We WORKED HARD to get to this level. Our REAL FANS deserve this success after supporting UNT through the lean years, so I don't care how big the athletic budget is!"

[FirefightnRick]

Are you implying that A&M is not a money school?

I'm willing to bet you have some other emotional attachment to A&M. Whether it's a friend or relative who went there, maybe it's a military thing, I don't know, but you defend A&M a little on this board. And that's where a lot of us are coming from.

No. Only when they play UT. A&M's budget in '03 was $43 Million by the way. I was rooting like hell for the Texas State Bobcats the other night as they drove up and down the field on a program 5 times or more their size, money wise.

The problem is Rick, why do you care who others root for?

I don't care. I said I don't understand why people root for teams like UT who buy wins all the time with a sickening amount of resources most others don't have. For me it would be boring.

Why waste your valuable time writing dissertations on some other school?

You would be surprised at all of what I have wasted, or rather spent my time on. Reminds me of a response a Blue Raider fan at the pregame tailgate party threw at me the other day when I told him I just drove in from Texas to be there for the game. With a surprised look on his face he asked: "You DROVE here.....................FROM TEXAS?!

Rick

Edited October 4, 2005 by FirefightnRick

[bflan]

OK... please don't beat me up over this one, but Texas is not THE state school. Texas A&M University was founded before Texas, 1876 and 1880.

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TExas a&m was actually part of The University of Texas System at first.

[ParksAndRecRick]

I'm with ya on this one Bro Rick!

TheOtherRick

as in ParksAndRecRick

[ipEAGLE]

Great Post. I agree 100% with everything you said.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[NM Green]

The Texas' of the world use to bother me and then I realized just how lucky I am to be a fan of ALL of college football.

Sitting in Roundtable Pizza over the weekend watching Boise and an improved Hawaii team made me appreciate the kind of college football fan I am:

1. I woke up at 2:00am and couldn't go back to sleep I was so geeked at a full day of the pigskin - happens every Saturday.

2. Went to the gym and on a run - passed all the drunks, hookers and crazies in Waikiki - they call me names because I am running at 2:30am ~ whatever.

3. I turn on Gameday live from Sun Devil Stadium at 4:30am.

4. I watch football from morning to afternoon before passing out right before the Hawaii game for a nap.

5. I watch a really tough explosive battle reminescent of the old WAC shootout days. Hawaii almost hands us over the "Most Conference Wins In A Row" record.

6. I listen to these tourists from bama - obnoxious and definitely getting overserved as they watch and complain about the game because its not like Tuscaloosa.

That is when I am just so happy to be able to enjoy ALL levels of the great game of college football. All this dude could do was biatch about how empty Aloha Stadium was and the play of the teams...He even asked another loud fan if Boise was in the WAC. Yes, the almost always ranked Broncos of the past few years with a huge winning streak until this year, perennial bowl winner until last year does play D1A football. I can appreciate that and I firmly believe being a diehard fan of the Mean Green has kept me humble and allowed me to appreciate play at all levels. Heck I love watching the D1AA playoffs and championship!

A lot of big time program fans can't even tell you who is in which conference ~ sad to me - they could care less. I appreciate my knowledge of the great game.

Now trounce that little trojan!

GMG

[GrandGreen]

Good post Rick. I can't believe we have so many fans who defend the University sports arms race that does little for any school. The UT, OU, OSU of the world with great natural program advantages still feel it is necessary to out spend each other and distance themselves from the majority of the competition. Even Pro football realize that the key to survival is competition.

IMO it is a travesty for an institution of higher learning to spend the kind of dollars that are currently being budgeted by the big time programs. The gap between the elite college football programs and the average is growing wider every year with little hope of abatement. Two million a year coaches, elaborate training facilities, and the bending of academic requirements for players are all part of the current landscrape in big time college programs. How does any of this add to the quality and integrity of the college football game?

[greenminer]

7.  I tried to tip one of the concession kids delivering cokes/peanuts at the Tulsa game and he would not take it????  Said he could not take it.!!!  What gives on that deal???? Is it University Policy not to TIP the walking concession kids/students???

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...pretty typical of any job I ever had in retail: they make it clear to you that THEY pay you plenty, and you cannot accept tips. In my experience, and i'm not saying this applies to everyone, the bosses' felt that accepting tips meant that you were motivated to do better/worse based on what the customer might give you, rather than SUPERIOR service which should always be a given.

You can agree/disagree -- that's fine, it may be different for you -- I'm just telling it as it was for me.

-gm

[Got5onIt]

UNT students/alums that are fans of Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, or SMU still baffles me.

1. I always root for OU when they play any Texas school other than NT. It helps a very good friend of mine played defensive line at OU during the Switzer era. Now that I think about it, another good friend of mine is a huge Shorthorns fan.

2. I always root for any Texas school that plays against Texas & aTm.

3. I always root for any school that plays against mid-major Texas schools other than NT of course.

Edited October 4, 2005 by Got5onIt

[j0nat8an]

the only thing that bugs me is when people will "we" it for a $ school that didn't graduate from or never went to, especially people who currently go to NT.

[DallasGreen]

The New York Yankees has made a mockery out of baseball with their endless spending and buying up all the talent.  It's made watching baseball a real bore for me.

But supporting Texas and other win-at-all-cost programs is no different to me.  I fully understand their alumni supporting their school, and they should.  But it's beyond me how it's even remotely fun watching their program win against the ULL's, North Texas's or even the Missouri's of college football.

In it's latest report on college endowement the Startlegram reported that Texas ranked right behind Harvard with an endowement of $8.8 Billion.  Apparently it's athletic expenditure has kept up as well.  In a '02 or '03 issue of DCTF Mack Brown is qouted that their $60 Million athletic budget was not enough.  He  got his way I suppose because the 2003-2004 reporting year states their budget was up to $70 Million.  I have read somewhere that this year it's higher, closer to $80 Million, but I can't find it again during several searches.  In the very least I give Texas credit for once, for finally stepping up and playing the OTHER major MONEY machine, Ohio State, in an early non conference game.  Ohio State reports their budget this year to be $83 Million.

Oklahoma has increased their spending to keep up with Texas and reported $70 Million as well, but that has to be a recent increase.  One trip to OU's campus and a comparison of their facilities to that of UT's and you see right off who has led in the arms race between the two over the years.  What about other major power schools?  According to the U.S. Dept of Edu's site, Michigan, UCLA, USC, Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame,LSU, Tennessee and several others reported around $59 Million. 

Now to be fair, for whatever reason, a search of these school's athletic budgets on the U.S. Department of Educations' website: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp, shows that nearly every other major(insert BCS here) program has a budget of $59 Million.  I know this cannot be completely accurate.  I find it very hard to believe that Missouri, Iowa State and Kansas State to have an athletic operating budget of $59 Million but as I said before, I cannot find the more accurate breakdown that was posted earlier.

  Somewhere I remember reading that Oregon actually spends more on it's football program $18 Million per year than any other school.  But according to the reported minutes of their January 2005  Board of Regent meeting  their overall budget reported for the 2005-2006 school year is listed at $37.5 Million.  So they may spend more on football, but no where near the other programs overall.

Still, it's obvious that we have between 3 and 5 other schools who buy up all the talent.  I just don't see how it's rewarding to beat teams with so much less.  When your system has the idea of win at all cost, MAJOR COST, it takes the fun out of competition.  Texas, OU and OSU should be up for a national VOTED title every year

and when they don't, they should be recognized as huge failures for the return on that kind of investment.  I would rather turn to the NFL where at least there is a salary cap. 

Speaking of a salary cap, according to the Knight Commission, and while reading several other researchers point of views, most believe there is no way to account for the total spending in college athletics, nor is there any feasible way to place a cap on expenditures.  So what we are seeing reported in these lists very well could be only the tip of total money spent.

Going down to Austin last year and seeing the lavish facilities reminded me of what one individual who was an extra in "Neccessary Roughness" told me once after talking about our game against UT in '88.  He was a retired 12 year veteran who played for the Vikings.  He was recruited by UT back in the 70's and said UT had better locker rooms than what he had in Minnesota.

I would much rather support the programs such as TCU or Troy, Marshall, Bowling Green, Utah, Boise St, Connecticut, Fresno St, South Florida, Southern Miss or even MTSU who have done much more with much less.  But that's just me.

Rick

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In 1976 North Texas had a total athletic budget of $900K. The only reason we got the game was DKR's relationship with Coach Fry and the fact that Dr. Lorainne Rogers ( a North Texas Alum) was then President of UT. DKR did give us 1/2 the gate saying if we were good enough to play we were good enough to share the gate. This was an Earl Campbell led team and it was more Campbell that beat us than anyone else. I have never ever seen an NT team play with as much heart as that team did. It was one of the most brilliant game plans and coaching jobs I have ever seen. The Fry coached teams never heard of "body bag" games. They felt they were in the game against anyone. Instead of making excuses those coaches made game plans that fit their personnel. I do not dislike our present staff, but once you have seen what can happen when a team is truly motivated to win you can't appreciate the lack of comparison. Honor Coach Fry tonight. He is truly what college football is all about. I feel blessed to have witnessed his time here as well as coach Blakeley. I keep hoping the magic they provided will again return. So far no one else has even come close.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Great link: (Green 92's: The Handbook of Texas )

---Like it or not "The College" with the 'State Name' University in every state with very few exceptions is considered the "Name University" of the state [ not in Ohio or Pennsylvania ] .

---I AM A TEXAN from a pioneer Texas family--- I am a North Texas grad and it is my #1 university by far....but I always hope other Texas teams win ( except SMU, with reason, the cheating rats never treat us fairly ) . The only exception can be when a Texas team plays a Sunbelt team which is another group I hope wins.

---I am not jealous of the other Texas colleges, athleticly or academically. We absolutely have our strengths in academics with many better programs than they have. Some people can't separate the two but academics and athletics are two different areas.. [ note Yale and Nebraska ]. Other Texas schools often may have more money available but they "raise" that money, their athletic funds are pretty much donations and they raised it. As long as the State of Texas treats us fairly with tax money, who cares if they are able to raise outside money.... Perhaps we will be one of those in the future.

---Success by any Texas team reflects well on all major universities in Texas (my oppinion) . I be damned if I would support a 'Yankee' Ohio State team over UT, [ as some people here did ] ---- lots of my friends went to UT, A&M, or TTU, not Ohio State. [not every school has the same majors available so UNT was not even an option] I also expect them to support us as well, not Middle Tennessee, Alabama, or someone else. ---I consider us " Texan brothers" ......Brothers fight and compete but are loyal to each other.

_________________________

Note: My wife is from Tech, one son is an Aggie (engineering dept) , and my two best life-long friends went to Baylor (Law) and UT. ---I do not support out of state colleges, why would I.????? I have spent lots time and had friends on every one of campuses, never at Ohio State, Eastern Michigan, etc.

Edited October 4, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[FirefightnRick]

Other Texas schools often may have more money available but they "raise" that money, their athletic funds are pretty much donations and they raised it.

No sir. Only roughly $20 Million of tU's $83 Million budget comes from donations. The rest come from yours and my pockets.

Rick

[Tramp96]

No sir.  Only roughly $20 Million of tU's $83 Million budget comes from donations.  The rest come from yours and my pockets.

Rick

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Only if we taxpayers are buying tickets, concessions, or UT paraphanailia. I guess if we do business with the companies that advertise during a UT televised sporting event that would count as well.

UT's $83 million athletic budget does not contain any taxpayer dollars or PUF dollars. PUF can only go to facilities and capital items...and the facility has to be an academic facility. Taxpayer dollars go to a school based on credit hours reported...and trust me...us taxpayers are only funding about 20-30% of the cost per student it costs to educate them.

Believe it or not, the UT's, tOSU's, Arkansas' and Nebraska's have these huge budgets solely from the following:

1. Donations

2. Ticket and parking sales (80,000 seats + donor-based seating + seat licenses = TONS of money)

3. Concessions

4. Licensure of official logo merchandise

5. Merchandise sales

6. Conference shared revenue (TV and Bowl revenue)

7. Bowl revenue separate from the conference share (although it is shared, UT gets some off the top from the bowl payout before it goes to the conference coffers)

AD's this rich actually give money back to the school...unlike here where the school has to help fund the AD.

[EagleD]

I know this is like going to the tobacco company for advice on lung cancer, but here's a quote from utexas.edu

19. Why can’t the athletics budget be used to address the university’s budgetary needs?

The entire budget for men’s and women’s intercollegiate athletics makes up only 4 percent of the university’s total operating budget. The UT Austin athletics budget is almost wholly self-sustaining, meaning it self-generates the monies it needs to fund its budget—which is not the case for most university athletic programs. The university funds only a very minor portion of the athletics budget, and that support will be reduced to zero over the next few years. If the entire athletics budget were used in one year to cover a recurring institutional deficit, these funds would not be available the following year because the athletics program would cease to exist.

[MeanMag]

A year or 2 ago, OU was looking to raise student fees and tuition because they were going to have an academic shortage do to the misappropriation of funds in that states government. The AD raised ticket prices i think 2$ or 3$ a ticket to pay 3 million $ into the school academic budget.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

No sir.  Only roughly $20 Million of tU's $83 Million budget comes from donations.  The rest come from yours and my pockets.

Rick

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----The pockets it comes from is not tax money.... The extreme high price of tickets at UT and A&M plus the number of people attending games creates a huge pile of money. The same laws apply to all state schools.... that is why we have to raise money to build a stadium and a lot of of the athletic facilities. No doubt some of our/their athletic facilities do qualify as academic structures for PE, dormatory, and other uses but nothing like what you seem to think. I would think that they also rake in a great of money from sales of school clothing and other types of items, a lot of which likely can be legally defered into the athletic budget. That is not tax money and the sales exists largely because of athletics.

---They have no tax money advantages over us... It is not legal. One advantage they have over us is funding from the university lands. The athletic programs take in a forture in TV revenue. I was at UNT just prior the baby boom hitting and the answer the State of Texas came up in 1965 was to rename a lot of campuses as "UT-Whatever" so those schools could pull from that university lands fund. (West-Texas oil fields, where I live) That freed up money from Texas-Western (UTEP) and Arlington-State (UTA) for us and others to use. More colleges have been renamed since. None of that money that money can be used for athletics either. You can bet that what we are getting for TV Sunbelt games doesn't equal what they get for Big-XII games. We are an inexpensive program for ESPN but they can't charge as much for advertising as they could for a UT or OU game.

_____________________________

Be thankful we weren't named UT-Denton. It has always been a possibility for funding..

Edited October 4, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66