Supporting the Longhorns and other $ schools

[FirefightnRick]

The New York Yankees has made a mockery out of baseball with their endless spending and buying up all the talent. It's made watching baseball a real bore for me.

But supporting Texas and other win-at-all-cost programs is no different to me. I fully understand their alumni supporting their school, and they should. But it's beyond me how it's even remotely fun watching their program win against the ULL's, North Texas's or even the Missouri's of college football.

In it's latest report on college endowement the Startlegram reported that Texas ranked right behind Harvard with an endowement of $8.8 Billion. Apparently it's athletic expenditure has kept up as well. In a '02 or '03 issue of DCTF Mack Brown is qouted that their $60 Million athletic budget was not enough. He got his way I suppose because the 2003-2004 reporting year states their budget was up to $70 Million. I have read somewhere that this year it's higher, closer to $80 Million, but I can't find it again during several searches. In the very least I give Texas credit for once, for finally stepping up and playing the OTHER major MONEY machine, Ohio State, in an early non conference game. Ohio State reports their budget this year to be $83 Million.

Oklahoma has increased their spending to keep up with Texas and reported $70 Million as well, but that has to be a recent increase. One trip to OU's campus and a comparison of their facilities to that of UT's and you see right off who has led in the arms race between the two over the years. What about other major power schools? According to the U.S. Dept of Edu's site, Michigan, UCLA, USC, Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame,LSU, Tennessee and several others reported around $59 Million.

Now to be fair, for whatever reason, a search of these school's athletic budgets on the U.S. Department of Educations' website: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp, shows that nearly every other major(insert BCS here) program has a budget of $59 Million. I know this cannot be completely accurate. I find it very hard to believe that Missouri, Iowa State and Kansas State to have an athletic operating budget of $59 Million but as I said before, I cannot find the more accurate breakdown that was posted earlier.

Somewhere I remember reading that Oregon actually spends more on it's football program $18 Million per year than any other school. But according to the reported minutes of their January 2005 Board of Regent meeting their overall budget reported for the 2005-2006 school year is listed at $37.5 Million. So they may spend more on football, but no where near the other programs overall.

Still, it's obvious that we have between 3 and 5 other schools who buy up all the talent. I just don't see how it's rewarding to beat teams with so much less. When your system has the idea of win at all cost, MAJOR COST, it takes the fun out of competition. Texas, OU and OSU should be up for a national VOTED title every year

and when they don't, they should be recognized as huge failures for the return on that kind of investment. I would rather turn to the NFL where at least there is a salary cap.

Speaking of a salary cap, according to the Knight Commission, and while reading several other researchers point of views, most believe there is no way to account for the total spending in college athletics, nor is there any feasible way to place a cap on expenditures. So what we are seeing reported in these lists very well could be only the tip of total money spent.

Going down to Austin last year and seeing the lavish facilities reminded me of what one individual who was an extra in "Neccessary Roughness" told me once after talking about our game against UT in '88. He was a retired 12 year veteran who played for the Vikings. He was recruited by UT back in the 70's and said UT had better locker rooms than what he had in Minnesota.

And yes, Darrell Royal was a good coach. But he had everything at his disposal. EVERYTHING! He certainly should have won more than 3 VOTED national championships. In 1976, his last year as head coach, he barely squeeked out a 17-14 win against North Texas who was coached by Hayden Fry. I don't know what the differences in budgets between the two schools were back then, I'm sure it was rediculously vast, but in the 80's NT was one of the poorest funded univeristies in the state for it's size. And the facility differences between the two were phenominal back then and even greater now. As good as Royal was at Texas, imagine what Hayden Fry could have done with all that luxury?

I would much rather support the programs such as TCU or Troy, Marshall, Bowling Green, Utah, Boise St, Connecticut, Fresno St, South Florida, Southern Miss or even MTSU who have done much more with much less. But that's just me.

Rick

Edited October 3, 2005 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

Here are a couple of recent articles.

Ohio State: $91 Million budget

AD steps down...$85 Million budget last year.

Rick

[Gator]

The New York Yankees has made a mockery out of baseball with their endless spending and buying up all the talent.  It's made watching baseball a real bore for me.

But supporting Texas and other win-at-all-cost programs is no different to me.  I fully understand their alumni supporting their school, and they should.  But it's beyond me how it's even remotely fun watching their program win against the ULL's, North Texas's or even the Missouri's of college football.

In it's latest report on college endowement the Startlegram reported that Texas ranked right behind Harvard with an endowement of $8.8 Billion.  Apparently it's athletic expenditure has kept up as well.  In a '02 or '03 issue of DCTF Mack Brown is qouted that their $60 Million athletic budget was not enough.  He  got his way I suppose because the 2003-2004 reporting year states their budget was up to $70 Million.  I have read somewhere that this year it's higher, closer to $80 Million, but I can't find it again during several searches.  In the very least I give Texas credit for once, for finally stepping up and playing the OTHER major MONEY machine, Ohio State, in an early non conference game.  Ohio State reports their budget this year to be $83 Million.

Oklahoma has increased their spending to keep up with Texas and reported $70 Million as well, but that has to be a recent increase.  One trip to OU's campus and a comparison of their facilities to that of UT's and you see right off who has led in the arms race between the two over the years.  What about other major power schools?  According to the U.S. Dept of Edu's site, Michigan, UCLA, USC, Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame,LSU, Tennessee and several others reported around $59 Million. 

Now to be fair, for whatever reason, a search of these school's athletic budgets on the U.S. Department of Educations' website: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp, shows that nearly every other major(insert BCS here) program has a budget of $59 Million.  I know this cannot be completely accurate.  I find it very hard to believe that Missouri, Iowa State and Kansas State to have an athletic operating budget of $59 Million but as I said before, I cannot find the more accurate breakdown that was posted earlier.

  Somewhere I remember reading that Oregon actually spends more on it's football program $18 Million per year than any other school.  But according to the reported minutes of their January 2005  Board of Regent meeting  their overall budget reported for the 2005-2006 school year is listed at $37.5 Million.  So they may spend more on football, but no where near the other programs overall.

Still, it's obvious that we have between 3 and 5 other schools who buy up all the talent.  I just don't see how it's rewarding to beat teams with so much less.  When your system has the idea of win at all cost, MAJOR COST, it takes the fun out of competition.  Texas, OU and OSU should be up for a national VOTED title every year

and when they don't, they should be recognized as huge failures for the return on that kind of investment.  I would rather turn to the NFL where at least there is a salary cap. 

Speaking of a salary cap, according to the Knight Commission, and while reading several other researchers point of views, most believe there is no way to account for the total spending in college athletics, nor is there any feasible way to place a cap on expenditures.  So what we are seeing reported in these lists very well could be only the tip of total money spent.

Going down to Austin last year and seeing the lavish facilities reminded me of what one individual who was an extra in "Neccessary Roughness" told me once after talking about our game against UT in '88.  He was a retired 12 year veteran who played for the Vikings.  He was recruited by UT back in the 70's and said UT had better locker rooms than what he had in Minnesota.

And yes, Darrell Royal was a good coach.  But he had everything at his disposal.  EVERYTHING!  He certainly should have won more than 3 VOTED national championships.  In 1976, his last year as head coach, he barely squeeked out a 17-14 win against North Texas who was coached by Hayden Fry.  I don't know what the differences in budgets between the two schools were back then,  I'm sure it was rediculously vast, but in the 80's NT was one of the poorest funded univeristies in the state for it's size.  And the facility differences between the two were phenominal back then and even greater now.  As good as Royal was at Texas, imagine what Hayden Fry could have done with all that luxury?

I would much rather support the programs such as TCU or Troy, Marshall, Bowling Green, Utah, Boise St, Connecticut, Fresno St, South Florida, Southern Miss or even MTSU who have done much more with much less.  But that's just me.

Rick

←

Hope this makes you feel better.......Go check their Basketball record against Arizona. Zona owns them; does so with a budget a whole lot less than Texas brags about.

Lute is able to come in and pick up talent Barnes would love to have.

The Cats will be at U of H, Dec 10. Last time they played here, Arizona had move fsns in the stands than Houston.

Football aint the endall and beall.

[Eagle1855]

We are not Texas.

Texas gets more money than we do.

Texas has a better Athletic Department than we do.

Some people that didnt go to Texas root for the team because it is the STATE SCHOOL. It is called "The University of Texas"

Texas isnt the reason we only had X people in the stands for X game. Texas isnt the reason there was no pride to speak of on the NT campus for decades. Texas doesnt care about NT. There are at least 10 Div1A programs in Texas in BETTER CONFERECES than NT.

This is why we will always be viewed as small time. Its our obssessive p---- envy voiced on this board over the haves vs have nots, etc.

Im so tired of people flaming people for being fans of other programs. So what if a guy loves NT and also roots for OU or UT or A&M in their conference games. Who cares? If they come to the games, support the teams, what does it matter? I would take as many fans as we can get. We are not in a position to say "we dont need X type of fan". Laughable.

You want people to buy NT stuff? Get it into a damned store where we can buy it. I cant find a single decent looking current NT article of clothing/merchandise in the entire Houston area. You want us to make the money? Get people to put our products on the shelves.

We need to worry about whats going on in our own back yard. We have plenty to take care of before we worry about what UT is doing.

We have plenty of positive things going on here. We have our own facilities being built. Plumm can list everything for ya if you dont know already, i am tired of typing!

Quit being so negative, we are in a good position right now to make strides in the future, considering our past.

I feel no need to defend my pride in NT, so try not to take a bunch of cheap shots telling me Im not a "real fan"... that accomplishes nothing.

Rant completed, I feel better, thanks for reading.

GMG

*Texas can be susbtituted with OU, FSU, Michigan, etc... logic applies the same.

Originally posted as its own topic so all the opinions expressed are not necessarily in response to this thread, rather a bunch of threads I read thru

Edited October 3, 2005 by Eagle1855

[Green92]

Rick, you spend way to much time worrying about these things. Be happy for what they have and move on. I can't believe someone would spend so much time writing all that down. I have strong ties to the supposed $$ schools. I wish them well. That doesn't mean I'm a traitor to NT. Your obsession just fuels the fire. If you can’t take the heat, quit being a UNT fan. Yeah, it’s easy to be a fan of a team that is successful or has more resources. However, it doesn’t make you a bad person if you went to school there or root for them. We need more fans that didn’t go to school here. You and your diatribes about UT……. Gees, take a chill pill.

[H-towngreen]

THANK YOU!!!! I could not of said it better.

[Green92]

Amen, brother!

[untgirl04]

OK... please don't beat me up over this one, but Texas is not THE state school. Texas A&M University was founded before Texas, 1876 and 1880.

[FirefightnRick]

I didn't say anyone was a traitor to NT by supporting the $ programs nor did I blame them for our problems. But I could care less if that's the way you read it.

You have your oppinions, I have mine.

I can't believe anyone would take the time to tell me otherwise after reading what I wrote.

Rick

Edited October 3, 2005 by FirefightnRick

[Eagle1855]

I didn't say anyone was a traitor to NT by supporting the $ programs nor did I blame them for our problems.  But I could care less if that's the way you read it.

You have your oppinions, I have mine.

I can't believe anyone would take the time to tell me otherwise after reading what I wrote. 

Rick

←

My post was not in response SOLELY to what you wrote. I originally posted it as its own topic, but it has been moved into this topic. Some of it applies to what you said, some applies to stuff I read in other threads, which is why I wrote it as its own topic

Edited October 3, 2005 by Eagle1855

[FirefightnRick]

Missouri $40 Million athletic budget in '04.

Here's another more accurate amount of Mizzou's budget over what I originally posted using the U.S. Dept of Education's site. Not sure why there is a difference?

Rick

[eeally]

I live in Austin and yes it is their pro-sports team. Weather you are an Alumni, student, or just live in the area you are a "Longhorn". It is like the Dallas Cowboys in Dallas. Every store has UT gear. There is a "Longhorn Radio Station." If you were raised in Austin or San Antonio. You are a Longhorn.

My advice "Tune it out!" Think about SWT. They get no respect. At least SMU and TCU are small private "rich"institutions. We have no competition in DFW...except of course : Mavericks, Rangers, Cowboys, Mustangs, Horned Frogs, UTA, ....

We are growing. No way we compete with Div 1 Top 10....But all you can do is support your team.

I am proud to be Mean Green, and always will. No way to fight the system.

[UNTFan23]

OK... please don't beat me up over this one, but Texas is not THE state school. Texas A&M University was founded before Texas, 1876 and 1880.

←

Considering one is located in the state capital and the other isn't, I don't see how one being established before the other makes it any more or any less THE state school.

ATM has always had and always will have a complex issue when it comes to Texas.

For example:

Hullabaloo, Caneck, Caneck

Hullabaloo, Caneck, Caneck

All hail to dear old Texas A&M

Rally around Maroon and White

Good luck to dear old Texas Aggies

They are the boys who show the real old fight

That good old Aggie Spirit thrills us

And makes us yell and yell and yell

So let's fight for dear old Texas A&M

We're gonna beat you all to

Chigaroogarem

Chigaroogarem

Rough, Tough, real stuff Texas A&M

Good bye to Texas University

So long to the orange and the white

Good luck to dear old Texas Aggies

They are the boys who show the real old fight

'the eyes of Texas are upon you'

That is the song they sing so well

Sounds Like Hell

So good bye to Texas University

We're gonna beat you all to

Chigaroogarem

Chigaroogarem

Rough, Tough, Real stuff, Texas A&M

Saw varsity's horns off

Saw varsity's horns off

Saw varsity's horns off

Short! A!

Varsity's horns are sawed off

Varsity's horns are sawed off

Varsity's horns are sawed off

Short! A!

I know the Texas fight song makes a small reference to ATM, but not nearly as much as the Aggies do to Texas in their fight song.

[FirefightnRick]

Iowa State: $19 Million in 2001.

Rick

[EagleD]

Rick,

I have to say I think that is the most incisive, well argued post I've ever read on a message board. Good job, sir. I only disagree a little. But it also reaffirms why I watch Boise, or UTEP or (insert sbc school here), because they have to try harder.

I do love TX/OU, FLSt/Mia, etc. It's a big explosion! And nothing would fill my life with joy quite like seeing North Texas in the middle of one of those parties. And we're getting there, but don't hate those who have, after all, that's what we want.

GO MEAN GREEN!!!!!!!

Tell me the truth. When A&M plays Texas, are you a closet Aggie?

[UNTSportsGuy]

What is our budget?

[FirefightnRick]

UT's 2005 budget: $80 Million

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

What is our budget?

North Texas budget in '03 was $11,326,041

Seems like I read this year it went up to $12 Million and some change.

Yes Eagle D, I root for the Aggies when they play tU. But I root for anyone playing the Longhorns as I do for most financial underdogs.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

OU budget over $60 Million

Rick

[UNTSportsGuy]

It's the Red Sox/Yankees of College Football.

[Green92]

OK... please don't beat me up over this one, but Texas is not THE state school. Texas A&M University was founded before Texas, 1876 and 1880.

Ahh, but neither are the oldest by far....

The Handbook of Texas

[EagleD]

Rick, the title of your post is "Supporting the Longhorns and other $ schools".

Are you implying that A&M is not a money school?

I'm willing to bet you have some other emotional attachment to A&M. Whether it's a friend or relative who went there, maybe it's a military thing, I don't know, but you defend A&M a little on this board. And that's where a lot of us are coming from. I hold a wierd allegiance to Penn St and Joe Paterno, I always root for Army over Navy, and I grew up in burnt orange. But ask me who my team is and the answer is always, "Mean Green, baby!"

Summed up best, "Don't be a playa hayta."

[Green92]

Yes Eagle D, I root for the Aggies when they play tU. But I root for anyone playing the Longhorns as I do for most financial underdogs.

The problem is Rick, why do you care who others root for? Everybody that pays attention on this board knows you hate "tU". And we should care, why? I have a lot of respect for all the work you do for our university. You are a champion through and through for all things green. Why waste your valuable time writing dissertations on some other school? You get so wound up it seems your head is going to explode inside your green firefighter helmet.

[UNTSIG]

We have enough problems in our own backyard. I hate TU. For many reason. I think that they are under achievers and I also just can't stand "bandwagon" fans period. I support the same teams regardless if they win or lose. Atlanta Braves, Mavericks, Cowboys, North Texas, OU and A&M. I grew up liking these teams and will continue to like them regardless. However, I do have respect for TU. They DEMAND winning. $80 million buys the fans an opinion down there and their opinion is you either win or you get fired. I wish we had that same expectations around here. At North Texas you either win or wait til next year and maybe we will win then.

[MeanMag]

Well, then screw the Cowboys and all 5 of their championships. They were all bought. I can't beleive I rooted for a team with a lot of money. What was I thinking?

I think Rick's point of view is that he fears change and thinks maybe that UNT should cut back it's budget. If we ever spend that much on football or have millions of fans, Rick can't be a fan. I saw it written somewhere... at the top of this thread.

Rick, I really admire what you do for this board and the program, keep it up. I don't disagree that maybe that type of spending is disgusting to us now, but if it were reversed I really wonder what your opinion would be.

Just as a little comparison, our athletic budget is 12 mil right? UT's is 80 mil. It sounds about right if you look at the size of our stadium, alumni base, FANS and winning seasons. They sell out just about every game, and they charge good money for those tickets. We can't understand what type of cash cow football is for that school, because it has never been an issue for us. Everyone around Austin loves the Longhorns, It is the only major team there. Everyone buys the merchandise and gets spoonfed Longhorns because it is a one man show down there. MERCHANDISE SALES ARE HUGE FOR UT. Why wouldn't they keep pumping money into it if they can turn a profit?

I bet if we compared the budget/people who consider themselves fans ratio NT would come out on top.