Baylor...

SpaceMonkey · October 5, 2005

This game really under-whelmed me. I heard you couldn't even hear the person next to you when the opposing team was on offense because it was so loud. That was not true. Mcneal is way overrated. Bad throws all day.
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You've clearly been to a grand total of 1 A&M game in your life. You've also clearly seen a grand total of 1 game featuring Reg. McNeal. Go watch a highlight film. He's the most talented multidimensional QB in the nation. He just had a extremely unusual terrible game. We've all had them.

Plus, any QB who leads his team like he did in under 3 minutes to win the game is not overrated.

SpaceMonkey · October 5, 2005

Also heard that Guy Morris was NOT satisfied with a moral victory " playing close is like taking a shower with your sister"--- that's the attitude it takes to WIN. Remember each loss gets easier for a team with no pride and NT has pulled two big time stinkers in a row!!
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Sorry but I'll take a relaxed DD who wins 4 conference titles in a row over Guy Morris anyday. HE and his mouth have shown over the last 2 years why he's a good coach but total moron unworthy of respect for anything but getting his team ready. I had respect for him at first but after he started getting an inflated ego and running his yapper I have since turned on him. I look for coaches who coach well, but have class also. There's plenty of people like Gary Barnett out there, but the ones who make you proud of your school and make everyone else think you run a good program are the gems.

Morris is a complete moron.

Eagle1855 · October 5, 2005

You've clearly been to a grand total of 1 A&M game in your life. You've also clearly seen a grand total of 1 game featuring Reg. McNeal. Go watch a highlight film. He's the most talented multidimensional QB in the nation. He just had a extremely unusual terrible game. We've all had them.
Plus, any QB who leads his team like he did in under 3 minutes to win the game is not overrated.
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When a QB has more than a few terrible games, it isnt really considered "extremely unusual".

I would hardly call him the MOST talented multi dimensional QB. I will take Marcus Vick or Vince Young over Reggie McNeal ANY DAY. go watch a highlight reel of one of those two then get back to me. And no , I dont want to hear about how Vince Youngs unorthodox delivery, etc isnt as good as Reggie (tho VY did beat Ohio State with his arm if you caught that game). Fact is, Marcus Vick and Vince Young win. Reggie doesnt. You can aggy-ize it all you want, but the numbers and the big games they have (or in the case of McNeal, "havent") won tell the truth. Reggie is a great athlete, but his bang to hype ratio is out of wack. Oh and I think Fran has been a great disappointment for A&M.

Good thing Ok State sucks so much this year... for once Baylor wont be last in the south. Hell they may even go to a bowl game. I still contend that Baylor shouldnt even BE in the Big 12, so you gotta feel bad for them. TCU or Houston were far better suited for the Big 12, but you know the way of politics (ever noticed there are no schools in big conferences in the two hottest recruiting spots in Texas, Dallas and Houston? Coincidence? Or is it just the way Texas and A&M wanted it...)

Hard to believe Hayden Fry tried to get us in the SWC... one can only imagine where we might be today had that come to fruition. Ahh... oh well, back to Sun Belt hell...

Edited October 5, 2005 by Eagle1855

Crown Bear · October 6, 2005

Spacemonkey:

I guess that class DD has gets you to 1-3 and an offense that can bearly break 200 yards with what is supposed to be the two best backs in the nation. Lets face it, DD is not a Big 12 or any other major conference coach or he would not still be where he is. He deserves credit for winning four straight Sunbelt titles but that where it should stop. Morriss is showing that what he did at Kentucky in two years was not a fluke. I think you should listen to your UNT counterparts that actually seem to know soething about football and coaching.

As for the Troy game, I thought UNT showed some signs of improvement but has to hang on to the ball. Take the UNT turnovers away nd the game is not even close and UNT wins. I don't think the season is a loss at this point. If UNT can continue to improve and win out everyone knows Troy will lay an egg at least a couple of times in conference play. It won't be eay but winning the conference is not out of the question at this point.

SpaceMonkey · October 6, 2005

When a QB has more than a few terrible games, it isnt really considered "extremely unusual".
I would hardly call him the MOST talented multi dimensional QB. I will take Marcus Vick or Vince Young over Reggie McNeal ANY DAY. go watch a highlight reel of one of those two then get back to me. And no , I dont want to hear about how Vince Youngs unorthodox delivery, etc isnt as good as Reggie (tho VY did beat Ohio State with his arm if you caught that game). Fact is, Marcus Vick and Vince Young win. Reggie doesnt. You can aggy-ize it all you want, but the numbers and the big games they have (or in the case of McNeal, "havent") won tell the truth. Reggie is a great athlete, but his bang to hype ratio is out of wack. Oh and I think Fran has been a great disappointment for A&M.
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So you've basically just said that you don't want to hear about a huge part of skill as a quarterback, since you don't want to hear about his horrible throwing motion? Interesting approach.

maybe "extremely" was a slight overstatement. But not by much. Reggies bad games have almost always come against very good ranked opponents.

Are you talking about the same Vince Young who had to be benched for his performance against Missouri last year? I think so. Let's face it, Vince Young has created the most hype out of anyone in the country off of two well played games. And the Ohio State game was not really all that "great" by him.

They are lucky he only threw to interceptions. Look at the clip sof everytime he is sacked....he's waving the ball around in the air as if its a white flag. He completed, two (that I recall) maybe three or four very good passes. Even Meager had 4 well thrown passes this last week. VY was also sacked 3 times. He threw for as many TD's (2) as he threw picks. And that was against a defense that was not supposed to have a great secondary. He had no choice but to throw the ball. No one runs on those LBs.

The rest of his career he has been just above good.

You're right...Reggie can't win a big game. I mean as a true freshman he only stepped into a game against #1 ranked Oklahoma in roughly the third quarter and had 16 carries for 89 yards, went 8 of 13 for 191, one of which happened to be a 61 yd TD strike. But was that his only TD? No, he had 4.

Last year he ran for 84 yds with 14 completions for 210 yds and no picks despite an ugly loss at Utah (a BCS bowl winning team that year). His seasons stats last year are largely equal to and better than in many areas, Young's. Young outgained him on the ground, but he has to run more because his passing game stinks. Plus, not to mention Texas is just a better team. A lesser QB on a much better team will almost always outperform a more talented QB on a worse team.

I give VY the nod over Reggie because he's a better runner. By that I mean that he commits to taking a lane, and goes for it. Reggie dances around too much. But, Reggie is faster, and a much much much better passer. I'm not Aggie-ing it up, I'm just lookin at the numbers.

The VY hype is a product of recent games against good teams. If the Rose Bowl was in VY's fish year, he wouldn't have all this hype.

All that said.....I'm very disappointed in the way the A&M coaches have brought Reggie along. By a lot of accounts they've wasted him and his talent.

Spacemonkey:
I guess that class DD has gets you to 1-3 and an offense that can bearly break 200 yards with what is supposed to be the two best backs in the nation. Lets face it, DD is not a Big 12 or any other major conference coach or he would not still be where he is. He deserves credit for winning four straight Sunbelt titles but that where it should stop. Morriss is showing that what he did at Kentucky in two years was not a fluke. I think you should listen to your UNT counterparts that actually seem to know soething about football and coaching.
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Like I said, I'd rather have a classy coach who does well and run a good program than a piece of crap who wins a ton of games or even a nat'l championship.

Seems to me Baylor has such an erection for finally being able to compete and even win games that they no longer care about being honorable. Its sad that building talent at a program can cause people to put blinders over their morals.

You missed the part of my statements about morris where I said he's a good coach. If you agree with this, and you seem to think that you're a coaching genius, then my knowledge of coaching is no worse than yours. But the problem here is that I wasn't talking about football or coaching. I'm not referring to his secondary coverage, or the passing routes he has his recievers running. I'm talking about the dumb crap that spews out of his mouth everytime you put a mic in front of him.

If a tie game is like "showering with your sister" (a truly classy statement I think we'd all agree), then how must GMo feel about losing in overtime to team they he was vastly out playing? I bet it hurts pretty bad.

I'd give DD the nod over GMo right now. He's having a bad year, but thats all Baylor or UNT was experiencing before DD or GMo. Once GMo starts winning more than 2 conference games per year, let alone 4 straight conference titles, then you can whip it out and comepare size.

Edited October 6, 2005 by SpaceMonkey

Crown Bear · October 7, 2005

Space(your)monkey:

Once again you are so wrapped up in being a UNT homer that you are running off at the mouth like you say Baylor's coach is doing. While I will agree with you his comment wasn't the best thing he could have said you are acting like he insulted your mother. I would rather have a coach talk to the media and express his feelings than not talk or not let his players talk as DD did after last years Baylor game. As for DD's four conference titles and bowl games like I said earlier he deserves recognition. Let's remember the Sunbelt is a long way from the Big 12 or any other major conference. I have a feeling Kevin Steele and his Baylor teams could have won the Sunbelt. Before you start beating your gums about only two conference wins lets see if UNT can just win an OOC game. Does 100+ to 9 ring a bell. I guess the last time they did that was against Baylor at Fouts, if I didn't miss one since then. I stand by my statement that if DD was such an outstanding coach your own fans would not be talking $hit about him and some other major team would have made him an offer he would not have refused. I do believe he is about the best UNT will ever have unless they get out of the Sunbelt. As far as the offensive routes receivers run I don't think you want to compare offenses at the present time. I think it may be best for us to agree to dissagree on this one. I still hope UNT wins the Belt and plan on making at least two more of the home games.

P.S. I hope I didn't offend you with the $hit comment. I promase it wasn't a personal attack on you like the shower comment was.

SpaceMonkey · October 7, 2005

Space(your)monkey:
Once again you are so wrapped up in being a UNT homer that you are running off at the mouth like you say Baylor's coach is doing.

Big difference in that I'm not a head football coach, and I'm posting on the internet, not talking to media. And being a homer? How am I being a homer? Being a homer is acting as if your coach can do no wrong....sort of like all your comments about Morris.

While I will agree with you his comment wasn't the best thing he could have said you are acting like he insulted your mother. I would rather have a coach talk to the media and express his feelings than not talk or not let his players talk as DD did after last years Baylor game.

And here's where we disagree. I want my coach to choose saying nothing over saying things that label you as an idiot. There's a nice medium, seems both Morris and Dickey need to work on finding that like most successfull coaches do. And I'm not even just talking about the "showering" comment. He's made a lot of arrogant comments and statements that head coaches should know better than making.

Before you start beating your gums about only two conference wins lets see if UNT can just win an OOC game. Does 100+ to 9 ring a bell. I guess the last time they did that was against Baylor at Fouts, if I didn't miss one since then.

There's quite a difference between conference wins and OOC. Baylor ought to understand that seeing as how they regularly won OOC and not won ANY conference games. Conference games get you to bowl games, OOC games make money for your team or allow you time to gear up for conference games. If OOC was more important they wouldn't play them at the beginning of the season. And you're right, NT did whip Baylor's ass that year. Just cause it was a couple years ago doesn't count. I'm sure if Baylor beat a Big 10 team in OOC they'd be yapping about for a decade.

I stand by my statement that if DD was such an outstanding coach your own fans would not be talking $hit about him and some other major team would have made him an offer he would not have refused.

Welcome to the real world where fans on every board in the nation bad mouth their coach. Guess what? Urban Meyer is known to be a great coach. And yet after losing his first Florida/Bama game they created fireurbanmeyer.com. If every great coach gets offered by a more big time program, then how long do you give Morris before he leaves for more dollars?

I do believe he is about the best UNT will ever have unless they get out of the Sunbelt.

No arguments there. I've been saying for a few years now that NT needs to switch conferences to pull in bigger recruits and the likes. Coaches are no exception.

As far as the offensive routes receivers run I don't think you want to compare offenses at the present time. I think it may be best for us to agree to dissagree on this one. I still hope UNT wins the Belt and plan on making at least two more of the home games.

You're right I dont. which is why I said I wasn't talking about football related issues such as "comparing recievers routes". Baylor has some very good players, and that huge back you guys have is a good runner. But I'm pretty sure that GMO is no exception in the fact that he'd pee his pants if he had the chance to get our two backs on his team.

P.S. I hope I didn't offend you with the $hit comment. I promase it wasn't a personal attack on you like the shower comment was.
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Even though that comment was total sarcasm I appreciate the disclaimer and the effort to be civil. No, you didn't offend me. BTW neither did his commend. I don't care what he says because he's not my classless coach. I just think someone in the bBU boosters group should tell him to calm himself down.

Green92 · October 7, 2005

Crown Bear,

Ignore the monkey, he's our new resident barometer on who or what is classless. He needs to get a job so he won't spend hours responding to posts. Guy Morris is funny. DD says stupid things all the time. BU has been the whipping boy for a while. We'll find someone else to kick since BU seems to be on the up. We always have SMU, but we play them next year so we will have to put our money where our mouth is. Should be fun.

UNTLifer · October 7, 2005

The VY hype is a product of recent games against good teams. If the Rose Bowl was in VY's fish year, he wouldn't have all this hype.

So you think if Young had had the type of game he had in the Rose Bowl during his freshman year, he wouldn't be getting all the hype? Your probably right. He'd be in the NFL by now.

Eagle1855 · October 7, 2005

So you've basically just said that you don't want to hear about a huge part of skill as a quarterback, since you don't want to hear about his horrible throwing motion? Interesting approach.

No, its irrelevant how he throws if he gets the ball there. He threw for 270 on OSU. Its unorthodox, he throws picks more than you would like. I think alot of that comes from him trying to make a big play on every play. It can be controlled.

Are you talking about the same Vince Young who had to be benched for his performance against Missouri last year?

Ok, fair enough. Reggie has had his fair share as well. 77-0 OU. Countless games against Texas, etc...

And the Ohio State game was not really all that "great" by him.

See above. 270 yards passing, 70+ rushing against a great defense. Not sure how you measure greatness.

Look at the clip sof everytime he is sacked....he's waving the ball around in the air as if its a white flag.

And this comes from someone defending a QB who spends half his time in the fetal position.

The rest of his career he has been just above good.

He's lost 2 games as a starter over the past 3 years...

You're right...Reggie can't win a big game. I mean as a true freshman he only stepped into a game against #1 ranked Oklahoma in roughly the third quarter and had 16 carries for 89 yards, went 8 of 13 for 191, one of which happened to be a 61 yd TD strike. But was that his only TD? No, he had 4.

You point out 1 game where he has been brilliant , 4 years ago. I will give you that one.

Last year he ran for 84 yds with 14 completions for 210 yds and no picks despite an ugly loss at Utah (a BCS bowl winning team that year).

He lost, it doesnt really matter. The game wasnt even close.

The VY hype is a product of recent games against good teams. If the Rose Bowl was in VY's fish year, he wouldn't have all this hype.

Typical aggy logic (or lack of). I dont even know how to respond to this.

Eagle1855 · October 7, 2005

Really, i think Vince young and Reggie McNeal are some of the most exciting players to watch in CFB... I love watching the games they play for that reason. I think with Reggies speed, he is more likely to play CB or Safety in the NFL. VY may be a QB (remember he still has ANOTHER season to develop as a QB), but may go the route of TE or WR... who knows.

I think Marcus Vick is going to surpass all of them as a multidimensional player... he is freakishly similar to his brother and has been nothing short of impressive so far this season.

I wish NT could pull in a QB like that, maybe one like Texas States QB... I was really impressed by his play @ Pyle field

This thread has officially been jacked however, so Im signing off.

SpaceMonkey · October 7, 2005

So you think if Young had had the type of game he had in the Rose Bowl during his freshman year, he wouldn't be getting all the hype? Your probably right. He'd be in the NFL by now.
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I think if he had had that game as a fish he would have had all this hype, and then after the other performances he had the hype would settle down a lot. Non-die hards at the water cooler talk most fervently about what has happened recently not over the course of a career. Remember, VY has also been fortunate to have players such as Roy Williams and Ced Benson with him. He gets all the credit fo the Ohio St game because he won by throwing 2 or 3 very good passes. But OSU botched most of their scoring chances. Winning is what determines it, you helped me prove that point by saying Reggie's good stats vs Utah (comparable to VY's vs OSU) were unimportant because of the loss.

Texas won that game because OSU didn't execute on offense. If you want to go back and look at VY's stats for that game you'll notice that long passes of 24, 36, and 63 account for nearly half of his passing totals. 3 passes netted him 123 yards. The other 15 gained him roughly the same amount. 1/3 (6) of his passes were to Jammal Charles, who gained 69 yards off them. 1 pass was for 36 yards, so the other 33 yards came on 5 passes. Those passes were mostly out in the flat so thats not exactly picking apart the D with your arm. I'm not saying he didn't play well, I'm just saying I think that the VY praise is a bit inflated. But he's still a great player and a tough opponent, I'll never deny that. Its very relevant how he gets that ball in there. Pro scouts are worried what that delivery will allow NFL defenses to do. If he plays QB in the pros then it will be with a team that is willing to make his throwing motion a high investment project.

All that said McNeal has more talent. McNeal has been wasted by those coaches. The way he is used means that as McNeal goes, so goes that team. He doesn't get as much support from anyone else like VY has had, and so during games like the massacre in Norman, when he's off the team can't find an answer. You'll find that in most of their losses he still performs up to par (50% completions, few picks, good yardage both passing and running) but the rest of the team can't pick up the slack.

I think you're right M. Vick is performing the best out of all of them. I still think that raw talent wise Reggie is at the top. he just hasn't been brought a long as well as Beamer or Brown have done with their coaches, and thats why I cited his fish game vs OU. Anyone who does that as a fish ought to be much more improved by his Sr. year. Even more agreement with you that the TSU kid looked outstanding.