This board is so funny sometimes....

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 26, 2005

and the others that we have won conf. Look back to all of the past seasons. Sure, we had more talent some of those years, but not all of them. In fact, this team could do nothing including losing our opening conf game the first year we won it and started like 0-5.

CHILL OUT PEOPLE - we will be fine.

UNTSIG · September 26, 2005

I think that the bar has been raised '99. Great we win conference like the last 4 years. This isn't progress....

Eagle-96 · September 26, 2005

You're right, if your idea of fine is winning the possibly the worst conference ever assembled again. We are better than 7 of the worst teams in college football, SO WHAT. The first couple of titles in 2001 and 2002 were great because we hadn't done that in forever and a day. Now more and more people are realizing that we're just the prettiest turd in the yard. We may be the prettiest but we're still a turd in the college football landscape.

pollock · September 26, 2005

There's a huge difference. There was a time not too long ago when even Texas and OU couldn't score more than 35 points on us.

54-2 is WAYYYYYYY worse than 35-10 or 27-0.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 26, 2005

I guess my message is directed towards those who don't think we will win the Belt again. I totally agree with those who are SICK and TIRED of just beating the worst teams in D1. I am sick of it myself and frankly, it is starting to BEAT ME DOWN!

Unfortunately, the only way it changes probably is getting a new coach or OC and that is not going to happen with us winning the Belt every season, and as long as the other teams in the conf continue to suck as they do.

emmitt01 · September 26, 2005

There's a huge difference. There was a time not too long ago when even Texas and OU couldn't score more than 35 points on us.
54-2 is WAYYYYYYY worse than 35-10 or 27-0.
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You are exactly right. Those 27-0 and 35-10 scores were put up when we had some semblance of experience at the QB and O-Line positions, a defensive line with real college snaps together, and one of the most dominating defensive linemen this school has ever seen (booger, who WAS NOT playing his first season on the D-line).

How long will it take for some people to realize that you don't just say "well, we've won our conference for four years, we've got some pretty talented people to plug into the empty spots, so I expect us to do great things"? Take a good hard look at Oklahoma next weekend when they play K-State. They're another team with QB inexperience, a "learn on the job" offensive line and a defense that is ramping up...and their "meal ticket" is, yep, the running game. The reason they'll stay in games this year is that their "rookies" are 5 star athletes who were recruited to a school with millions in the athletic budget. Wanna get us to that level? Cool, make your checks out to "University of North Texas Athletics" and make sure there's a lot of zeroes on there. Until then give this team one year, just one, and I bet you'll see a world of difference in '06.

IslandEagle · September 26, 2005

You are exactly right. Those 27-0 and 35-10 scores were put up when we had some semblance of experience at the QB and O-Line positions, a defensive line with real college snaps together, and one of the most dominating defensive linemen this school has ever seen (booger, who WAS NOT playing his first season on the D-line).
How long will it take for some people to realize that you don't just say "well, we've won our conference for four years, we've got some pretty talented people to plug into the empty spots, so I expect us to do great things"? Take a good hard look at Oklahoma next weekend when they play K-State. They're another team with QB inexperience, a "learn on the job" offensive line and a defense that is ramping up...and their "meal ticket" is, yep, the running game. The reason they'll stay in games this year is that their "rookies" are 5 star athletes who were recruited to a school with millions in the athletic budget. Wanna get us to that level? Cool, make your checks out to "University of North Texas Athletics" and make sure there's a lot of zeroes on there. Until then give this team one year, just one, and I bet you'll see a world of difference in '06.
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Getting a new coach....or new anything else....won't be the answer. Until we can consistently get 20,000 into the stands, win or lose, we won't get a coach or athletes any better than we have now. What kind of coach do you think a school that doesn't show fan or money support would get???

This is NOT defending DD nor our record right now. This is criticizing "magical" thinking that supposes that a change like that will somehow work wonders.

If we want to get better, we've got to do it the old fashioned way....put fans in stands and money into the program. Then we can hire the coaches we REALLY want and recruit the players we REALLY want.

Travis · September 26, 2005

and the others that we have won conf. Look back to all of the past seasons. Sure, we had more talent some of those years, but not all of them. In fact, this team could do nothing including losing our opening conf game the first year we won it and started like 0-5.
CHILL OUT PEOPLE - we will be fine.
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That is the problem. There is no progression. We aren't content in just winning the conference anymore. Especially when the conference is the worst in America. And in the perception of many, worse than some D-1AA conferences. We should be doing better than this. Dickey has complained year in and out that we do so bad because of our competition. Well, now RV has changed the schedule to find some schools on par with us and more winnable.... (la tech, smu, tulsa)

Something has got to give be it the coaches themselves or their philosophy and schemes. Changes must be made.

gangrene · September 26, 2005

Man, I am really getting tired of everyone saying that we shouldn't be alarmed because we get our ass throttled every week. That it's acceptable because we're young and inexperienced.

K-State returned 5 starters on offense (only one on the O-line yet their RB is leading the nation in rushing yds per game) and 6 on defense. Is there really that much disparity between K-States players and ours?? FIU didn't get beat 54-0...they only lost to K-State 35-21.

Marshall only returned TWO offensive starters (their LT and RT) and 3 on defense. Sure they just lost to UCF but they only lost to K-State by 2 points. And guess what?? That was their second game of the season.

Tulsa returned 5 offensive and 5 defensive starters. They have a new QB as well. Let's not forget we were favored to beat Tulsa by 6, not lose to them by 52.

TCU only returned 4 offensive starters (5 on defense) and beat OU in their first game. They lost to SMU the next week, but a back-up QB came in to lead them to a come-from-behind victory over BYU this week.

Arkansas State only returned 4 offensive starters but manage to put up 66 points in their 4th game. Anyone here think we can manage that in our 4th game?? How about when we play the same team that ASU did it to...FIU?? The same FIU team that only lost by 14 to K-State.

For whatever reason, our coaching staff never has our team prepared to play in OOC games. Take last year for example, we lost at home to Florida Atlantic. Will the same be true of our La Tech game this year and SMU next year. My magic 8 ball says "all indications are yes".

meangreanmick · September 26, 2005

We aren't ready to compete in OOC yet. I am not talking about our players and coaches, I am talking support. We have taken a giant step forward in donations, MG Club, season tix, attendance, etc. However, compare us to the teams we are playing.

I don't think we need to be demanding any kind of results on the field until we (and by we I mean Alumni, students, community, etc.) CONTINUE to give better results in giving support to our programs.

We need to be getting millions of dollars in donations to keep this thing going everyear, not hundreds of thousans. You want to get rid of body bag games, give more money. Get more people involved. Get more people to buy season tickets.

Now, obviously this is all much easier to do when you are winning, no matter who you are beating. That is why being in the SunBelt and winning is more important right now. It gives us visibility, bowl game, etc. Yes winning OOC would be even better but we don't have general support that these other teams have, yet. Want proof that this is working? Most of our largest home game attendances on campus ever have been within the last few years.

Keep building the base with what we have now and when we have 10,000 people in the MG club, we are getting 25 - 30 K REGULARLY at home games, and have a season ticket base of 15-20K, then we legitmately can EXPECT to be more competitive in OOC games. Until we are there, I would say that we who claim to be die hard supporters haven't done our job to get us there, yet.

mickey

gangrene · September 26, 2005

We aren't ready to compete in OOC yet.
I don't think we need to be demanding any kind of results on the field until we (and by we I mean Alumni, students, community, etc.) CONTINUE to give better results in giving support to our programs.
You want to get rid of body bag games, give more money.
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Are Tulsa and La Tech (and SMU next year) what you consider to be "body bag" games? If we're going to stick with that philosophy why don't we continue to schedule all OOC games on the road against Top 40 teams (for the large payout)? Then no one will expect us to win any of them.

People generally don't pay for a shitty product, no matter what their affiliation may be.

Travis · September 26, 2005

I don't think we need to be demanding any kind of results on the field until we (and by we I mean Alumni, students, community, etc.) CONTINUE to give better results in giving support to our programs.
mickey
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You tell me why anyone is going to jump on a losing bandwagon. Support for our programs will not grow until the masses see success and progression. I can't blame others for their disinterest in this program.

yyz28 · September 26, 2005

I guess my message is directed towards those who don't think we will win the Belt again.
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Can you please point out for us the evidence that would make us fell otherwise?

meangreanmick · September 26, 2005

Are Tulsa and La Tech (and SMU next year) what you consider to be "body bag" games? If we're going to stick with that philosophy why don't we continue to schedule all OOC games on the road against Top 40 teams (for the large payout)? Then no one will expect us to win any of them.
People generally don't pay for a shitty product, no matter what their affiliation may be.
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Gangrene,

No I don't consider those body bag games - K State, yes pretty much. We might play them close every so often, but they are on a different level right now.

My point is, for example, Tulsa's football expenses are significantly higher than ours. Why? Football revenue/football donors. Yes, in a series, I would expect games between us and Tulsa to be more evenly matched. We played ONE time and got our butts kicked. You want to EXPECT to beat them every time out? THEN WE FIRST NEED TO BE EVENLY MATCHED OFF OF THE FIELD. That is my point.

“You tell me why anyone is going to jump on a losing bandwagon. Support for our programs will not grow until the masses see success and progression. I can't blame others for their disinterest in this program.”

My point exactly Travis. We need to focus on winning what we are funded and supported to win right now (SunBelt and as many OOC games as we can). We need to build that funding and support to a level that allows us to consistently compete at the next level (another conference or at least beat other conferences teams regularly in OOC). We need to continue to build season ticket holders, donors, facilities, etc while we continue to win what we can win. We when have comparable in all of those, then you can EXPECT another level. Till then, you are just wishing and hoping.

I disagree with you on one point. It sounds like you are saying we just expect the team to win and then the masses will come. If you are a supporter and you want to see improvement, you can't just sit back and hope the masses will come. You have to be part of the effort, win or lose. Is it easier to get people to come watch a winning team, yes. Is it impossible to get people to come to games even in years we aren't winning everything, no.

Gator · September 26, 2005

Gangrene,
No I don't consider those body bag games - K State, yes pretty much. We might play them close every so often, but they are on a different level right now.
My point is, for example, Tulsa's football expenses are significantly higher than ours. Why? Football revenue/football donors. Yes, in a series, I would expect games between us and Tulsa to be more evenly matched. We played ONE time and got our butts kicked. You want to EXPECT to beat them every time out? THEN WE FIRST NEED TO BE EVENLY MATCHED OFF OF THE FIELD. That is my point.
“You tell me why anyone is going to jump on a losing bandwagon. Support for our programs will not grow until the masses see success and progression. I can't blame others for their disinterest in this program.”
My point exactly Travis. We need to focus on winning what we are funded and supported to win right now (SunBelt and as many OOC games as we can). We need to build that funding and support to a level that allows us to consistently compete at the next level (another conference or at least beat other conferences teams regularly in OOC). We need to continue to build season ticket holders, donors, facilities, etc while we continue to win what we can win. We when have comparable in all of those, then you can EXPECT another level. Till then, you are just wishing and hoping.
I disagree with you on one point. It sounds like you are saying we just expect the team to win and then the masses will come. If you are a supporter and you want to see improvement, you can't just sit back and hope the masses will come. You have to be part of the effort, win or lose. Is it easier to get people to come watch a winning team, yes. Is it impossible to get people to come to games even in years we aren't winning everything, no.
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Gator · September 26, 2005

How many of the inexperienced lineman, backs etc spent the summer in Denton? NCAA now allows them to be on scholarship, in dorms prior to start of fall practice.

Work during June and July could have shortened the learning curve.

gangrene · September 26, 2005

Yes, in a series, I would expect games between us and Tulsa to be more evenly matched. We played ONE time and got our butts kicked. You want to EXPECT to beat them every time out?
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Nope, I just wanted to beat them THIS time...when we were favored and played them at our stadium and were SUPPOSED to win. Hell, I wouldn't even be so upset if it would have been a close loss. But it wasn't!! We got our butts kicked at home by a team that (arguably) has less talent than us. We were outcoached and outplayed. It has nothing to do with money or alumni support. If you have better talent, better coaching and home-field advantage you're supposed to win the game.

ntsumck · September 26, 2005

Most of this discussion can be traced back to recruiting. We have to win some of those battles before we can win them on the field. If you look at most of our loses in recent years, we are outmatched up front. Both offensively and defensively. I am not talking about the UT's, OU's of the world, but Colorado St.,Memphis, Southern Miss, Tulsa, etc. They were a lot bigger than NT up front.

We need to get some beef. I would like to see a recruit on campus for a visit that is bigger than our normal 6-2 lineman. These kids are out there. Right in our backyard. We need to recruit DFW better.

Until we get bigger it will be difficult to get much better.

Got5onIt · September 26, 2005

You are exactly right. Those 27-0 and 35-10 scores were put up when we had some semblance of experience at the QB and O-Line positions, a defensive line with real college snaps together, and one of the most dominating defensive linemen this school has ever seen (booger, who WAS NOT playing his first season on the D-line).
How long will it take for some people to realize that you don't just say "well, we've won our conference for four years, we've got some pretty talented people to plug into the empty spots, so I expect us to do great things"? Take a good hard look at Oklahoma next weekend when they play K-State. They're another team with QB inexperience, a "learn on the job" offensive line and a defense that is ramping up...and their "meal ticket" is, yep, the running game. The reason they'll stay in games this year is that their "rookies" are 5 star athletes who were recruited to a school with millions in the athletic budget. Wanna get us to that level? Cool, make your checks out to "University of North Texas Athletics" and make sure there's a lot of zeroes on there. Until then give this team one year, just one, and I bet you'll see a world of difference in '06.
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Money is only part of the problem. Look at Bowling Green, they've gone through Josh Harris and now have Omar Jacobs. This team has not lost step. TCU, although they aren't as good as the Printers/Tomlinson years, have seen their success take them into the MWC. South Florida blew out a National Title contender over the weekend. Northern Illinois was in the top 25 two years in a row.

Money makes the athletic world go 'round, but what's your response to programs like Baylor & SMU? Bowling Green would smash both these teams in a matchup.

I think blaming the issues with this athletic program on money & facilities are merely scratching the surface.

Edited September 26, 2005 by Got5onIt

WIFE2HOT4U · September 26, 2005

I see a lot of people saying, "Write larger checks if we want to see improvement"!

My question is, do the OU's UT's Tenn etc get the majority of their Athletic

Budget from donations -OR-

Sales from merchandise and advertisers?

I would think the way to generate more $ is to make it "COOL" to wear NT

clothing (Not just in Denton) and own flags, cups footballs etc.

I know we may never be the UT's of football but a couple of yrs ago, I thought

we may become a Marshall or TCU...

Every day on my way to work I see cars w/ UNT stuff on them and I wonder

"Do they even on a NT T-Shirt?

I think a school has 2 options in regards to "Cool" perception:

1) Academic Ranking

2) Athletics (F-ball or BBall)

Sometimes if a Uni is lucky they have both like UT.

IMHO I think UNT is on the fence.....

Pretty good Academics (Tier 4) and ok athletics (SBC).

(Looking w/ lightly green tinted shades).

I see improvement in academics and football but much more needs to be done.

We need to make a commitment to FBALL like we have academics.

How much would it take to get a Big Time coach in here?

1 mill yr?

Could NT not come up with 3mil somehow?

El Paso Eagle · September 26, 2005

Money is only part of the problem. Look at Bowling Green, they've gone through Josh Harris and now have Omar Jacobs. This team has not lost step. .... Bowling Green would smash both these teams in a matchup.
I think blaming the issues with this athletic program on money & facilities are merely scratching the surface.
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Just wondering, have you ever seen BG’s facilities?? It’s been about 3 years but I passed it 2 times before I realized it was a college stadium. Maybe the facilities are not the only key.

kj86 · September 26, 2005

Nothing funny about not even being in the same galaxy as teams we'd like to think we can compete with, i.e. Tulsa. We will not win the Sunbelt. It does not matter who your competition is if you cannot score. We lose to 3 of Troy, ULL, FAU and ASU.

PlummMeanGreen · September 26, 2005

You are exactly right. Those 27-0 and 35-10 scores were put up when we had some semblance of experience at the QB and O-Line positions, a defensive line with real college snaps together, and one of the most dominating defensive linemen this school has ever seen (booger, who WAS NOT playing his first season on the D-line).
How long will it take for some people to realize that you don't just say "well, we've won our conference for four years, we've got some pretty talented people to plug into the empty spots, so I expect us to do great things"? Take a good hard look at Oklahoma next weekend when they play K-State. They're another team with QB inexperience, a "learn on the job" offensive line and a defense that is ramping up...and their "meal ticket" is, yep, the running game. The reason they'll stay in games this year is that their "rookies" are 5 star athletes who were recruited to a school with millions in the athletic budget. Wanna get us to that level? Cool, make your checks out to "University of North Texas Athletics" and make sure there's a lot of zeroes on there. Until then give this team one year, just one, and I bet you'll see a world of difference in '06.
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Some very good points, Emmitt...

We have some very unaccepting, unrealistic fans that I just guess cannot read some very young NT player's bios in our 2005 MG FB media guide that ( in essence) tells the whole story about this Mean Green FB team up to this point of this season. I bet they will show some most noticable improvement. Any taker$ on that?

Darrell Dickey is not the anti-christ and he is not the whole problem here. It is a team effort that also includes too many of our penny/ante "want it all for free" alumnus base that has much to do with this as anyone. How could that be? Just look at CUSA budgets compared to ours for starters?

Anyone think if the Mean Green Club were contributing $2 million per year (which is really where a school our size should be) that NT would be taking an athletic budget back seat to "ANY" CUSA school? Most of you reading this do your part in giving and attending games where it counts the most and those are the ones at Fouts Field.

Yet why the need for a larger athletic budget at NT? How about where we can start paying our coaches more so they look at recruiting more than want-ads at other NCAA outposts? Did yall see today in the DMN where SMU Coach Bennett makes over $400,000 per year? Has DD done more than Bennett? Hell yes! He deserves to make as much as Phil Bennett. Sue me!

Yet, salaries raises should also focus on our NT assistant coaches, they do have to feed their families. Why more athletic budget at NT? How about having more football recruiting budget as to allow our coaches to be on the road longer (and further down that road) than what a small NT athletic budget presently allows? Lets quit comparing our budgets to SBC schools, folks, because most of you say you want out of that league. Well, it will take money to do that. It's really always about money in NCAA D1-A, fellow Mean Greeners.

But still, this is just as much about our NT alums and fans who have kept a 32,000 plus enrollment Texas university (you know, Texas, where football is King? barefoot and pregnant (so to speak). It is this constituency who have kept NT somewhat stuck in a time warp of not showing the kind of dramatic growth at the turnstiles you'd expect a school that has as many students and alums as our school has would exhibit.

It is about the kind of attendance habits at Fouts Field games after the team has had some losses and the MG fans choosing to not show at Fouts Field based on such losses that keeps some conferences from really seriously looking at us when they are looking for new members. Do any of you really think it was "going on 60 years old" Fouts Field that kept us out of CUSA? Twasn't Fouts at all, but it was the empty seats at Fouts Field that cemented our not getting key votes from all the right CUSA schools that kept us out.

If our school had been averaging 30,500 the past few years (and we all know we have the reservoir of fans to do that), there is no way CUSA Commissioner Brit Banowsky could have conjured up real bonafide (believable) excuses for a few select private schools (who probably draw less than half that number) to even think about black-balling a large Texas public university from CUSA membership. Well, we make sure almost every Fall that they don't even have to exert efforts to do such in those smoke-filled rooms, our fans will jump off the Mean Green bandwagon for all to see in the Sunday Dallas Morning News boxscores attendance section of our games.

And FWIW, for all these years if we had done our part as alums/fans instead of always pointing fingers other directions than opposite where our thumbs always point and playing this constant annual blame-game, it might be NORTH TEXAS in CUSA instead of 1 or 2 others AND (amazingly) we would have done all this W/O a new football stadium for crissakes!

GMG!

Edited September 26, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

FirefightnRick · September 26, 2005

Don't compare us to OU, compare us to programs more on our level who seem to still find ways to compete each year on offense.

Everyone loses players.

Rick

UNTSIG · September 27, 2005

You folks that keep talking about the young qb, I think that (unfortunately) we are once again being apologistic Mean Green fans. Let's say that this is a "fluke" year and those other great teams are behind us that were full of experience. Let's look at the past 3 years OOC record one more time where everyone can be on board. NOT COUNTING THIS YEAR....we have a 3-14 record against OOC opponents (4-13 if you count Troy because I believe that when we played them 2 years ago they were not in our conference) We lost to teams such as the mighty somethings of FAU, Baylor, Air Force, TCU and South Florida just to name a few. Where was our "youth and inexperience" problems then? We have an excuse year after year. Why is it so wrong to demand more? Maybe we should also stop the "North Texas fans suck" bandwagon and think of this.... Did anybody notice that the movie industry was down this summer? Nobody was going to the movies. Why? The movies sucked. Think about it.