All you DD lovers - I have a question?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Sonny Lubick, Colorado State - Six conference titles

Fisher DeBerry, Air Force Academy - Three conference titles

Howard Schnellenberger, Florida Atlantic - One national title

Jeff Bowers, Southern Mississippi - Four conference titles

Ken Hatfield, Rice - Four conference titles

Tom Amstutz, Toledo - Two conference titles

Just a little clarfication on the original post and these coaches.  First, I'm not saying fire DD.  Actually, I think he's earned the right to go through a rebuilding year and come through the other side and see what happens.  There may be a coach or two on the staff I'm not sure about.

The question was about other job offers and if DD has received them, not about will he stay as these coaches above have.  If DD has had serious other offers, I don't know but each of these coaches above all have a little different story for why they are where they are:

Sonny Lubick - was offered the UCLA job (before Dorrell) and the Miami job (before Butch Davis).  He's a hero at CSU and will never leave (or be fired).

Fisher DeBerry - Generation AF guy.  Part of the promote from within coaching staff that been there for some time.  He probably will never leave.

Howard Schnell - fired from last job at OU, was AD at FAU, fired the head coach and hired himself, probably not going to get many more job offers at his age.

Jeff Bowers - mentioned on ESPN 2 years ago, that he would not entertain any more coaching offers.  He's happy and doesn't want to move his family around again.

Ken Hatfield - been fired from Arkansans and Clemson he's probably happy to no longer have pressure to win.

Tom Amstutz -Toledo is his alma mater.

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So, what you're telling us is that these coaches are loyal to their programs. Good. Hopefully, Darrell Dickey is as well.

You can keep dreaming that there's abetter coach for UNT, but there probably isn't. He's got the support of the alumni who actually give money to the program. He's got strong recruiting ties from his own and his family's (dad and brother) coaching ties. And, he's willing to do the job without a major commitment to facilities and without support of the school and community.

You're sadly mistaken if you think this job is attractive to other Division I-A coaches. Dickey's job is a dogfight, and we're lucky he's chosen to keep it. He's likely the only guy out there that won't treat us like a stepping stone.

[FirefightnRick]

There needs to be a reality check here. Newsflash: We don't have the talent to compete with Kansas State right now no matter who the coach is.

I suppose Texas State needs to move up to the Big 12 considering they moved the ball at will on Texas A&Mand nearly walked out with a win last week.

Come on, tell me it was a fluke. Tell me last year, without even getting the chance to have his FIRST RECRUITING SEASON(COMPLETELY MISSED IT DUE TO THEIR LATE FIRING OF MATSAKIS) that Bailiff went in to Waco with his second string QB and nearly walked out with a win, was a fluke.

Corky Nelson didn't have $hit for money, recruits, facilities...a staff? and his teams competed very well with anyone and I never once heard the man tell the local/national media how his kids backs are against the wall when they signed on the dotted line.

Schnellinberger still doesn't have a stadium of any kind to play in, in only his third or fourth year of existence. Same for South Florida, who's coaches were in trailers the last time we went down there and got our heads handed to us.

So please tell me these guys successes against the bigger programs, programs who had/have more money, better facilities, greater fan bases were all just fluke jobs. Please tell me because I want to be an enabler too you know.

Witnessing this season of piss poor offensive performance is not, for the lack of a better statement for "Us Season Ticket Holders/Long time supporters of the Mean Green"....this is not our first rodeo.

Some of you enablers need to read up on your history. The rest of us, no, the MOST of US, have LIVED IT!

Rick

[Arkstfan]

Why is it, that a coach like DD, can win the conference 4 (soon to be 5) straight seasons, and still be our coach?  Another words, why, IF he is in fact "building" this program and taking it to such big heights, is he still our coach?  Find me a coach at a school like UNT that has won more than 2 conference titles and has not been hired away to another school.

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Coming into this season he was career 9 games under .500. That's a big strike.

He doesn't throw the ball 30+ times a game, not something that sells easily.

Gary Pinkel won three titles at Toledo and didn't get hired away until 2 years after his last MAC title when he went 10-1 (beating Penn State) and finished second in his division.

Bob Pruett took a I-AA title and six MAC titles and still is at Marshall.

Dan Hawkins has three WAC titles and three top 25 rankings and is still at Boise State and hasn't had a really big offer.

[FirefightnRick]

What's Hawkins' salary? Didn't the Boise community/university give him a very large increase to stay last season?

Rick

[El Paso Eagle]

DD 1998-2000..........32%

DD 2001-2004..........72%

That is DD building a program!!!

Eagle-96 the original question was overall winning percentage....but....your point of OOC wins is well taken.....I too would like to see a better winning percentage on the OOC games but you can not deny that DD has improved UNT's winning percentage over the last 4 years despite out dismal OOC record against mostly Major D-1 BCS schools for athletic dollars which run our program......(my old English teachers would kill me on that run on sentence.)

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Hate to spoil the party, but is it just a coincidence that DD’s success started with the first season of play in the Sun Belt? I will give him all the credit for having the best program in the Belt but don’t act like he has achieved this success against quality competition.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Okay, I'll tell you - the Texas State game versus A&M was a fluke. With Hurricane Rita apporaching and the game moved up two day to Thursday, yes it was a fluke.

With the game moved on Tuesday and much of A&M's Houston area fan based worried about other things and not attending the game on Thursday instead of Saturday, I'll say, yes, it was a fluke.

With players getting an unexpectedly short week of practice due to Hurricane Rita and the game move up, yes, I'll say it's a fluke.

With A&M's many Houston-area players hearing that their parents' home and businesses may be destroyed in the next couple of days, I'd say their attention probably wasn't 100% on Texas State.

It didn't matter, anyway. A&M played the game half-hearted, leading 41-17 going into the fourth quarter, and sleep-walking through the fourth quarter. Yes, that Texas State scored two fourth quarter touchdowns made the game look closer than it really was.

Basically, then, it's was a fluke. And, as far as we're concerned, how Texas State plays A&M in unusual circumstances is hardly germane to a conversation about Darrell Dickey.

Edited September 27, 2005 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[GMoney]

You can keep dreaming that there's abetter coach for UNT, but there probably isn't. He's got the support of the alumni who actually give money to the program. He's got strong recruiting ties from his own and his family's (dad and brother) coaching ties. And, he's willing to do the job without a major commitment to facilities and without support of the school and community.

Did you read my post? I didn't mention a single thing you said! I did not say this was a dream job, I did not say he would stay, I did not mention hiring another head coach. As a matter of fact, I said right up front he's earned the right to go through the rebuilding process and come out the otherside!

Some of those guys are loyal to their programs, others have been run out of every other place they've been and one returned to his alma mater. That was not the point as I mentioned. The original question was whether or not job offers have been made to DD to lure him away and Coaches in comparable situations. I have no idea if DD has been offered better spots or if he would leave if he had. I responded to your post about the aforementioned coaches you listed. Some have stayed loyal (great), but others on your list have fallen to where they currently are.

[Arkstfan]

Hate to spoil the party, but is it just a coincidence that DD’s success started with the first season of play in the Sun Belt? I will give him all the credit for having the best program in the Belt but don’t act like he has achieved this success against quality competition.

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It's not like he accomplished those bad seasons in a quality league either.

1998. 3-2 Big West (wins over Boise State 3-5 vs. I-A, Nevada 5-5 vs. I-A, NMSU 3-8 I-A, losses to Idaho 7-3 I-A, and Utah State 2-8 I-A)

1999. 1-5 Big West (win over Boise 8-3 I-A losses to Idaho 5-4, ASU 3-7, Nevada 3-8, NMSU 5-5, Utah State 3-7)

2000. 1-4 Big West (win over NMSU 3-8 vs. I-A, losses to Utah State 4-6, Boise 8-2, Idaho 4-5 I-A, 1-1 I-AA, ASU 1-9 I-A, 0-1 I-AA).

MTSU in 2001 was easily comporable to most of those years best team, as was 2002 NMSU. There was very little difference in the caliber of schedule. Since 1996 UNT's league schedules have been roughly similar, regardless of having Big West or Sun Belt patches on the uniforms. The only difference has been UNT winning in league play the past four years.

Best I can tell UNT follows the Groucho Marx rule. He said he wouldn't join any club that would be willing to have him as member, likewise UNT fans assume any league they can win isn't worth winning.

[UNTSIG]

For anyone that is reading this board that is not from North Texas you will have to forgive some on here. We prefer to make excuses rather than demand winning. You wonder how our program has gotten to the state that it is in huh.

[GreenBat]

For anyone that is reading this board that is not from North Texas you will have to forgive some on here.  We prefer to make excuses rather than demand winning.  You wonder how our program has gotten to the state that it is in huh.

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For anyone that is reading this board that is not from North Texas you will have to forgive some on here for making MORONIC statments like the one listed above over a 1-2 football team.

[eagle60]

DD has to stop bad-mouthing the program here. Yes, there aren't a lot of facilities but they are coming. We have had quality recruits in the past. The big weakness is recruiting QBs. No body is going to get excited about handing off most of the game. We need to diversify our offense enough to land a few of the really good QBs in this part of the country. With a good name QB you'll find other ecruits wanting to be on an up-and-coming program. What did Texas State do to get their playters? Maybe we should find out!

[UNTSIG]

Greenbat- ok well call it moronic if you like. I understand that to try and insult someone instead of actually producing evidence to the contrary is very popular to people who think about as deep as a puddle of spit but let me offer you some advice that is not moronic. Always expect better. I am not sure about the other fans on this board but I am damn tired of being a second rate program. I don't want to hear anymore of these "I've been a Mean Green fan for 50 years so you don't know what suffering is" stories. I am tired of Corky Nelson stories. He didn't do shit either. It's time we start winning. Demand winning with your butt in the seat at Fouts Field. Demand it with your pocket book. Demand it by letting your athletic director know but stop making excuses. "They were bigger, faster, have more money, better at recruiting, have more tradition....." The list could go on and on. Is it just me or is anyone else on here tired of hearing it? When our recruiting class sucks, say it. When the other team is faster....say why the hell didn't we get that kid. I am just sick of these lame excuses that I hear all the time for North Texas football. We expect to lose to OOC oppoents. Until we change that mentality, nothing is going to change at North Texas. The next time we get beat by the Tulsa's of the world or even the UT's of the world...guess what? It's ok to be mad. That's called being competitive, something that we all should learn at North Texas.

[PlummMeanGreen]

DD has to stop bad-mouthing the program here.   Yes, there aren't a lot of facilities but they are coming.     We have had quality recruits in the past.     The big weakness is recruiting QBs.     No body is going to get excited about handing off most of the game.     We need to diversify our offense enough to land a few of the really good QBs in this part of the country.     With a good name QB you'll find other ecruits wanting to be on an up-and-coming program.     What did Texas State do to get their playters?     Maybe we should find out!

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Texas State hired the TCU Def. Coord. from over here in Fort Worth who may have even been their recruiting coordinator if I recall.

NT needs to first take care of business and that is making sure our assistant coaches are the best paid in the SBC. Lets reward all of them from top to bottom for taking our Mean Green football team to a bowl game the last 4 years instead of crucifying them for 2 losses.

Somwhere up there, Pop Noah and Theron J. Fouts have tears in their eyes over some of this bandwagon jumping. Someone said it earlier today in a post, but lets all leave those 2 behind and just ook at the Big Picture.

GMG!

Edited September 28, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

Greenbat- ok well call it moronic if you like.  I understand that to try and insult someone instead of actually producing evidence to the contrary is very popular to people who think about as deep as a puddle of spit but let me offer you some advice that is not moronic.  Always expect better.  I am not sure about the other fans on this board but I am damn tired of being a second rate program.  I don't want to hear anymore of these "I've been a Mean Green fan for 50 years so you don't know what suffering is" stories.  I am tired of Corky Nelson stories.  He didn't do shit either.  It's time we start winning.  Demand winning with your butt in the seat at Fouts Field.  Demand it with your pocket book.  Demand it by letting your athletic director know but stop making excuses.  "They were bigger, faster, have more money, better at recruiting, have more tradition....."  The list could go on and on.  Is it just me or is anyone else on here tired of hearing it?  When our recruiting class sucks, say it.  When the other team is faster....say why the hell didn't we get that kid.  I am just sick of these lame excuses that I hear all the time for North Texas football.  We expect to lose to OOC oppoents.  Until we change that mentality, nothing is going to change at North Texas.  The next time we get beat by the Tulsa's of the world or even the UT's of the world...guess what?  It's ok to be mad.  That's called being competitive, something that we all should learn at North Texas.

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Amen, brother!

Some of you other guys are conditioned to accept second-rate status. I guess I was that way too for a while. I'm tired of it. You need to raise your expectations and stop being overly patient and making excuses. Why do you do it?

The slogan for the program should not be 'Think GREEN'. It should be 'Think BIG TIME!' If you don't think big-time you will never BE big-time.

[GreenBat]

Greenbat- ok well call it moronic if you like.  I understand that to try and insult someone instead of actually producing evidence to the contrary is very popular to people who think about as deep as a puddle of spit but let me offer you some advice that is not moronic.  Always expect better.  I am not sure about the other fans on this board but I am damn tired of being a second rate program.  I don't want to hear anymore of these "I've been a Mean Green fan for 50 years so you don't know what suffering is" stories.  I am tired of Corky Nelson stories.  He didn't do shit either.  It's time we start winning.  Demand winning with your butt in the seat at Fouts Field.  Demand it with your pocket book.  Demand it by letting your athletic director know but stop making excuses.  "They were bigger, faster, have more money, better at recruiting, have more tradition....."  The list could go on and on.  Is it just me or is anyone else on here tired of hearing it?  When our recruiting class sucks, say it.  When the other team is faster....say why the hell didn't we get that kid.  I am just sick of these lame excuses that I hear all the time for North Texas football.  We expect to lose to OOC oppoents.  Until we change that mentality, nothing is going to change at North Texas.  The next time we get beat by the Tulsa's of the world or even the UT's of the world...guess what?  It's ok to be mad.  That's called being competitive, something that we all should learn at North Texas.

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SIG,

I did not call you a MORON, I called your statement MORONIC. My point is there are lot more important things going on in the world than worrying about a program that is going to be 2-2 after it's next game.

I agree don't accept medicority, but until YOU (all MEAN GREEN Fans) are ready to open their pocketbooks, bitching only makes you feel better.

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

I agree don't accept medicority, but until YOU (all MEAN GREEN Fans) are ready to open their pocketbooks, bitching only makes you feel better.

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We need more MEAN GREEN fans, and we need people to open their pocketbooks even if they aren't fans, but at least can be made to care about the value of their diploma and the opportunity to build an educational institution that is nationally recognized as substantial. Many people don't like it, but football has its part in that. That's a tide we cannot turn.

We're not complaining; we're trying to convince you and others that it is important to lean on administrators and lawmakers and anyone else who can influence the outcome that North Texas needs to get the money to hire a coaching staff that everyone else in the world thinks of as big-time. That means they need to take some of the financial resources they have now and go on a promoting and fund-raising blitz.

Two key near-term positives will result from such a successful campaign: hanging better in games with the players on the team at the time, and the ability to recruit better players.

Somehow we managed to buy a Buick with Honda Civic money. We are thankful. However, other schools are spending Corvette money or even Ferrari money, and we aren't going to win races against them. With as many alumni as we have, we should be able to afford more, but there is a lot of selling that needs to be done for that to happen.

[Cr1028]

Wow, looks like GMG1999 was the first to call for a change for the future.

[FirefightnRick]

Wow, looks like GMG1999 was the first to call for a change for the future.

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Uh, no. Not even close. There were calls for a change IN 1999 after people had seen two years of sleep music. That was when the "Square Peg, Round Hole" offense forced several thousand, frustrated Mean Green faithful at Amon Carter early that season to accomplish it's first, unified chant while playing TCU.........."THROW.....THE .....BALL!.....THROW....THE....BALL!!!!!"

Rick

[CaribbeanGreen]

Uh, no.  Not even close.  There were calls for a change IN 1999 after people had seen two years of sleep music.  That was when the "Square Peg, Round Hole" offense forced several thousand, frustrated Mean Green faithful at Amon Carter early that season to accomplish it's first, unified chant while playing TCU.........."THROW.....THE .....BALL!.....THROW....THE....BALL!!!!!"

Rick

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That was a great day.. I was on the sidelines for that chant, and we couldn't believe it.... didn't we hold LaDainian Tomlinson to his season/career low in rushing yards that day??

[CaribbeanGreen]

btw, the best thing about this thread being resurrected is seeing examples of PMG posts pre-technicolor. Ah, the nostalgia really comes out thick during the holidays...

[good_ken]

btw, the best thing about this thread being resurrected is seeing examples of PMG posts pre-technicolor. Ah, the nostalgia really comes out thick during the holidays...

He had a monochromatic post today, it was kind of refreshing.

[Txballa]

Man, WTH are some of yall talking about? Facilities, funds, a new stadium, this has nothing to do with coaching. Dickey is in the hotbed of national talent and he can't bring in any recruits from the area........ Yea right.....UNT has the potential to become a decent football school, but as many have said Dickey won't do it. UNT needs a coach with some experience, who is a go getter, one who sees some potential for the program. I still don't understand how the hell you are right in the DFW area, and in the same town as one of the TX powerhouse schools, and coach at the third or fourth largest school in Texas and you can't recruit players something is terribly wrong. Hell Rice has been a terrible team for a long time, and now they are headed to a bowl game. Rice and Houston have improved their programs and UNT needs to do the same, and they made a step in the right direction by firing Dickey.

[GreenMachine]

There needs to be a reality check here. Newsflash: We don't have the talent to compete with Kansas State right now no matter who the coach is.

We aren't asking our players to compete with Kansas State. We are asking them to compete against ULM, ULL, Ark State etc.

[shaft]

DD didn't get snatched up by another school because...

1. Not enough OOC wins.

2. DD like being at UNT and absent the K-State job wasn't looking to leave.

The fact that guy didn't leave the program earlier doesn't make him a bad coach. Is RV a bad A.D. because he hasn't jumped ship? Are you a bad employee because you stayed at your job?

DD did a lot for this program. He wasn't the guy to take this program to the next level, but he was the guy who took it to this level (4 consecutive bowl games.) He's also the guy who could right the ship after last year's implosion.

DD is not the end all be all of UNT coaching, but he was really good for this program. Now its time to go a different direction. Why is it so hard for people on this board to recognize this?

[PlummMeanGreen]

Man, WTH are some of yall talking about?  Facilities, funds, a new stadium, this has nothing to do with coaching.  Dickey is in the hotbed of national talent and he can't bring in any recruits from the area........ Yea right.....UNT has the potential to become a decent football school, but as many have said Dickey won't do it.  UNT needs a coach with some experience, who is a go getter, one who sees some potential for the program.  I still don't understand how the hell you are right in the DFW area, and in the same town as one of the TX powerhouse schools, and coach at the third or fourth largest school in Texas and you can't recruit players something is terribly wrong.  Hell Rice has been a terrible team for a long time, and now they are headed to a bowl game.  Rice and Houston have improved their programs and UNT needs to do the same, and they made a step in the right direction by firing Dickey.

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And, yes, there were many of us who tried for the longest best we could (while we bit our lips not always enjoying his style of football or PR skills which I think helpled keep us at 15K per home game most of his years in Denton if that many); anyway, many on this board still supported DD Ball even in the midst of all his post game radio broadcasted jabs (which many of those even amazingly came during the bowl years).

As I've posted before, one of our fellow alums (a casual/borderline fan--you know, the ones who most always have 15,000 seats available for them most any Game Day?); anyway, our fellow alum upon his hearing DD on one particular post-game radio show that I told him to listen to on his way back to Fort Worth. Anyway, once our group all met for a post-game meal at a FW eatery he told our group he would never come back to a Mean Green FB game until that kind of UNT employee who made that kind of money from UNT was removed from the UNT payroll. That alum simply asked me: "Why in the hell is that Dickey fella' kicking our school and our alums asses? Has he forgotten who he gets his freakin' pay checks from?"

Darrell Dickey (IMHO) literally talked himself (on all those radio shows comments and selected quotes in the print media) out of his job as HFC at the University of North Texas.

On the other side of the coin, I think UNT's dismissal of him may end up being a blessing in disguise for the Dickey clan as far as his long-term health is concerned because now he will have the time to re-coop, have some nice fund$ that will give him the proper time to re-cooop and just get on with his life whether that be in coaching football (at whatever level) or going into some other kind of business.

There would (hopefully) be no one on this board who would have the ability to separate the man from the coach that would wish him nothing but good health and good fortune because (as they say) when you've lost much or all of your health you've just about lost everything (and whatever amount of money you have put away cannot always help in that part of all our lives, either).

".............riding high in April, shot down in May." (per "ol' blue eyes aka Frank Sinatra in the song "That's Life")

Yet................many of us still gave it the good ol' college try in trying to support Dickey and even thru all those times he was poking comments and jabs at our school and at our alums most of the time he was HFC, but FWIW...........wasn't his job like most of ours out here as in: "What have you done for me lately?" NOTE: Lately is some cases can be: "What did you do for our company the last quarter!"

Edited November 26, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen