All you DD lovers - I have a question?

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 25, 2005

Why is it, that a coach like DD, can win the conference 4 (soon to be 5) straight seasons, and still be our coach? Another words, why, IF he is in fact "building" this program and taking it to such big heights, is he still our coach? Find me a coach at a school like UNT that has won more than 2 conference titles and has not been hired away to another school.

You can't. The fact is that the big schools hire them away. But not DD. Nope, he is still here and in 8 seasons has really not had any significant offers. If he had, he would have been gone.

There are certain coaches that are good for building a team a little, but they can only take a team so far. No one in the nation respects the Sun Belt.

I think he has done a great job in bringing us to the point that we are at - but if we ever want to go to the next level, we will have to find another coach that can take us there, because DD has proved that he will not be the man to take us to the next level.

PlummMeanGreen · September 25, 2005

Why is it, that a coach like DD, can win the conference 4 (soon to be 5) straight seasons, and still be our coach? Another words, why, IF he is in fact "building" this program and taking it to such big heights, is he still our coach? Find me a coach at a school like UNT that has won more than 2 conference titles and has not been hired away to another school.
You can't. The fact is that the big schools hire them away. But not DD. Nope, he is still here and in 8 seasons has really not had any significant offers. If he had, he would have been gone.
There are certain coaches that are good for building a team a little, but they can only take a team so far. No one in the nation respects the Sun Belt.
I think he has done a great job in bringing us to the point that we are at - but if we ever want to go to the next level, we will have to find another coach that can take us there, because DD has proved that he will not be the man to take us to the next level.
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We will need a new stadium before we can go to any substantial new level that will really mean anything long-term no matter who our head football coach is.

I really feel DD wants to win OOC games as much as the next D1-A coach because I think if he has plans to move up and on, he knows he will have to start winning some of those kind of games. Until then, we should support our young Mean Green football team because they are probably hurting about all this about 10 X's more than we are.

GMG!

Edited September 25, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

keith · September 25, 2005

Our All Time Football Record*: 456-394-33

DD Era Record*: 37-46-0

Keith

*According to CFB Data Warehouse as of the end of the 2004 season.

Edited September 25, 2005 by keith

DallasGreen · September 26, 2005

We will need a new stadium before we can go to any substantial new level that will really mean anything long-term no matter who our head football coach is.
I really feel DD wants to win OOC games as much as the next D1-A coach because I think if he has plans to move up and on, he knows he will have to start winning some of those kind of games. Until then, we should support our young Mean Green football team because they are probably hurting about all this about 10 X's more than we are.
GMG!
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I really wish I believed that they took these last two whippings that seriously, but I doubt it.

gangrene · September 26, 2005

I say we let DD be the head coach for our SBC games but hire someone else to coach the OOC games and make them split the salary!!

ipEAGLE · September 26, 2005

I say we let DD be the head coach for our SBC games but hire someone else to coach the OOC games and make them split the salary!!
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Great idea!!!

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 26, 2005

Sonny Lubick, Colorado State - Six conference titles

Fisher DeBerry, Air Force Academy - Three conference titles

Howard Schnellenberger, Florida Atlantic - One national title

Jeff Bowers, Southern Mississippi - Four conference titles

Ken Hatfield, Rice - Four conference titles

Tom Amstutz, Toledo - Two conference titles

To make this easy, I just listed coaches from non-BCS schools. There's a pretty good list. Most have been at their schools for many years. And, each has had their share of ups and downs.

You also have to consider that I didn't list guys without conference title, but who have done well at their programs, such as Fresno State's Pat Hill. You think the Fresno State fans are trying to run Pat "No Conference Titles" Hill off?

You have to face reality here. Darrell Dickey can be another Fisher DeBerry, Jeff Bowers, Pat Hill. He does what he can with the little the school offers. Many of the coaches listed above took years to build their programs. The facilities at most were crappy when the coach took over.

Their on the field successes fueled donations, school administration support, and community support. Darrell Dickey only has control of one of those three things.

If you ask me, Dickey's held up his end of the deal. It's time for the school and everybody else to step forward - if they really want UNT to be a good football school.

greensteve · September 26, 2005

DD is not whats holding our football program back...its funding, if everyone would give $1000-2500 dollars we build a new stadium...we even fill that stadium, and then if we do not win an OOC then and only then can the nay sayers have there way and fire DD...

If you haven't donated...you should...if your thinkin about it, DO IT!!! There are payment options available. Let's ALL take the program to the next level!

Quick note: I just had a terrible flashback from the Parker/Simon era (1994-excluded)...

PlummMeanGreen · September 27, 2005

DD is not whats holding our football program back...its funding, if everyone would give $1000-2500 dollars we build a new stadium...we even fill that stadium, and then if we do not win an OOC then and only then can the nay sayers have there way and fire DD...
If you haven't donated...you should...if your thinkin about it, DO IT!!! There are payment options available. Let's ALL take the program to the next level!
Quick note: I just had a terrible flashback from the Parker/Simon era (1994-excluded)...
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Exactly...

In fact, I just got my monthly MG Club statement in today's mail. Funny how I love filling out the check to the MG Club over my other bills.

1-800-UNT-2366 will get you to someone who can sign anyone up for the Mean Green Club and that call is even on the NT Athletic Department's 1-800 nickel, too.

GMG!

Edited September 27, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

Rudy · September 27, 2005

DD is not whats holding our football program back...its funding, if everyone would give $1000-2500 dollars we build a new stadium...we even fill that stadium, and then if we do not win an OOC then and only then can the nay sayers have there way and fire DD...
If you haven't donated...you should...if your thinkin about it, DO IT!!! There are payment options available. Let's ALL take the program to the next level!
Quick note: I just had a terrible flashback from the Parker/Simon era (1994-excluded)...
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Hell, thats a great idea. I only make $20K/year busting my ass WITH overtime, and thats before my bills. Why don't I just automatically give a Quarter of my income.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 27, 2005

you guys hit it on the head - the only reason we aren't competing is because of facilities. So if we have a new stadium we won't run it up the middle on 3rd and 15?

Give me a break. But here is what I think.....keep DD and when we have a new stadium and the same team, just keep him.

KingDL1 · September 27, 2005

Not really sure how come a new stadium would change how DD traditionally calls his games.

eulesseagle · September 27, 2005

Keith---

UNT's record is 37-46 with DD at the helm.....BUT......he took over from Matt Simon who had a terrible record and forced him to rebuild.

Now, if you look at DD's record prior to winning the first SBC Championship and during our current run with the SBC Championships you will find this out:

Prior to SBC Championships (1998 - 2000): 8 - 25

Our current run:..................(2001 - 2004): 29 - 21

You belate DD on his overall record but the facts show that he, his staff and the team has improved the record over the last 4 years.

You can try to skew the numbers all you want but the fact remains that during all 4 years of winning the SBC we do have a winning record. By the end of this year we will have another winning record.

OldTimer · September 27, 2005

"You can try to skew the numbers all you want but the fact remains that during all 4 years of winning the SBC we do have a winning record. By the end of this year we will have another winning record."

Didn't the first year winning the conference we went to the NO Bowl with an overall losing record? I seem to remember it lead to a chance in NCAA rules to prevent that from happening in the future.

PlummMeanGreen · September 27, 2005

Not really sure how come a new stadium would change how DD traditionally calls his games.
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A new football stadium for NORTH TEXAS is not exclusively for any one person or any one group, but I sure as hell know a bunch of older nestors who will sure enjoy all the modern new amenenties that our future new stadium will give to all of us, no matter which era you attended NT.

Folks (you get tired of "folks") you cannot fire a head football coach who has taken your school's football team to 4 bowl games in row. Some of you have already brought up this point, but which coach would come to a school who would do such a deed that has any semblance of pride and ego (and allegiance to the coaching fraternity)?

We need to give Darrell Dickey all the NCAA D1-A facilities ammo within reason for a school whose alums have chosen the level we compete (our attendance figures have determined that) because he has not had that at NT compared to 99.9% of the other NCAA D1-A schools he has to recruit and compete against. If after he has all that and it doesn't happen in Mean Green Country, then you probably have a case.

We are even losing some kids to perennial loser SMU because of their faciliities (Gerald J. Ford among others they built with it) for those of our elect who don't quite understand or can fathom the cold harsh reality that there really is a NCAA D1-A facility arms race going on out there. NT has been behind with football related facilities since Fry left Denton (and even before that). We are (finally) slowly but surely catching up.

What about you? You get excited about driving the hand-me-down Ford Maverick over a bright new shining dark green Jaguar XJS? Well..............do you?

GMG!

Edited September 27, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

the green rokemi · September 27, 2005

So if I donate money, DD will win out of conference games

are we buying new players? paying off the refs? please explain....

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 27, 2005

So if I donate money, DD will win out of conference games
are we buying new players? paying off the refs? please explain....
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There needs to be a reality check here. Newsflash: We don't have the talent to compete with Kansas State right now no matter who the coach is.

Whether Dickey and Flanigan planned to run 100% of the time or pass 100% of the time would not have mattered. Our players aren't as fast as K-State's. They're not as big as K-State's. They're not as talented as K-State's. Period.

Look, we have a good football coach. What we don't have is the facilities and support to help said good football coach consistently attract top flight talent.

Compounding the difficulty is that we are in a state with nine other Division I-A schools trying to sign the best football recruits in the state. Not only that, but our state is bordered by Lousiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, and New Mexico. Combined, those states have 15 Division I-A schools, and each regularly recruits Texas as hard as they can.

So, within our region we've got 25 Division I-A schools, at minimum, chasing the best of our state's players. Folks, that's over 20% of all Division I-A football schools in and around our state - and that's before the Miamis, USCs, Nebraskas, etc. of the football world come in to do their cherry picking!

If you don't think Darrell Dickey has done a great job against those recruiting odds, you're living in a dream world. We've got what we need in a coach - someone who wins with the players he can get. But, Dickey can't do everything.

As mentioned in another insightful post, there is a football arms race going on out there. Some schools' administrations have recognized it and done all they could to keep up. Other haven't. Ours simply hasn't.

Not only that, but some communities get behind their home team. Look at Fresno State, which has been embraced by that whole valley area to the extent that the team wears a "V" on the back of their helmets to represent the community.

Austin supports the 'Horns, Norman supports the Sooners, College Station supports A&M to the hilt. You drive through Fort Worth neighborhoods and many of the houses in all types of neighborhoods have the purple "TCU" emblazoned on their curbs with the house address. It's a pride factor that Denton sorely lacks.

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, believe me, because we all want the same thing. But, tossing out Darrell Dickey based on games scheduled against opponents who have much more talent than we do is stupid.

What we have in Darrell Dickey could be what Air Force has in Fisher DeBerry, what Fresno State has in Pat Hill, what Colorado State has in Sonny Lubick, what Southern Miss has in Jeff Bowers - if everyone else will just step up!

It's the 21st Century, folks. Division I-A football is a 24 hour a day, 365 days a year job for everyone involved - coaches, players, administration, fans, community. The whole kit and kaboodle.

So, the bottom line, really, is step up or shut up. No 21st Century football coach will succeed at a Division I-A program without support, no matter how good he is.

MeanGreenSig · September 27, 2005

According to Keith's post

All time winning %-53.65%

DD Winning %-44.58%

In my business that is underperformance!(spin and make excuses, but fact is fact)

And don't bring up the SBC championships, conference championships have helped us, but come on the SBC is horrible! The SBC championships will not take us to the next level as the conference stands today. To put something another way that has been mentioned on this board-You can't keep doing the same thing(level of recruiting, SBC championships, non-conf game performance, gameplan) and expect better results. I was once told "A good coach can make adjustments to his game plan within three series" and I think that is reasonable.

I agree with the fans that say DD has done a great job but question his ability to take us to the next level. But, I think the jury is still out let see what happens with this YOUNG team and our next recruiting class, if he can't make significant progress over the next 12 months I would look elsewhere. I do think he has earned a little patience from us.

GMG!!!!

Edited September 27, 2005 by MeanGreenSig

LongJim · September 27, 2005

There needs to be a reality check here. Newsflash: We don't have the talent to compete with Kansas State right now no matter who the coach is.
Whether Dickey and Flanigan planned to run 100% of the time or pass 100% of the time would not have mattered. Our players aren't as fast as K-State's. They're not as big as K-State's. They're not as talented as K-State's. Period.
Look, we have a good football coach. What we don't have is the facilities and support to help said good football coach consistently attract top flight talent.
If you don't think Darrell Dickey has done a great job against those recruiting odds, you're living in a dream world. We've got what we need in a coach - someone who wins with the players he can get. But, Dickey can't do everything.
I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, believe me, because we all want the same thing. But, tossing out Darrell Dickey based on games scheduled against opponents who have much more talent than we do is stupid.
It's the 21st Century, folks. Division I-A football is a 24 hour a day, 365 days a year job for everyone involved - coaches, players, administration, fans, community. The whole kit and kaboodle.
So, the bottom line, really, is step up or shut up. No 21st Century football coach will succeed at a Division I-A program without support, no matter how good he is.
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Hammer. Nail. Etc.

Eagle-96 · September 27, 2005

Keith---
UNT's record is 37-46 with DD at the helm.....BUT......he took over from Matt Simon who had a terrible record and forced him to rebuild.
Now, if you look at DD's record prior to winning the first SBC Championship and during our current run with the SBC Championships you will find this out:
Prior to SBC Championships (1998 - 2000): 8 - 25
Our current run:..................(2001 - 2004): 29 - 21
You belate DD on his overall record but the facts show that he, his staff and the team has improved the record over the last 4 years.
You can try to skew the numbers all you want but the fact remains that during all 4 years of winning the SBC we do have a winning record. By the end of this year we will have another winning record.
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You seem to be skewing the numbers as well:

OOC record for 2001-2004

4-20

We have beaten Baylor, Troy, Cincinnati, and Nichols State in that span. Add two more OOC losses this year so far and his record is 30-23 overall but 4-22 in OCC.

eulesseagle · September 27, 2005

MeanGreenSig---

All time UNT recored 53%

DD record................44%

DD 1998-2000..........32%

DD 2001-2004..........72%

That is DD building a program!!!

Eagle-96 the original question was overall winning percentage....but....your point of OOC wins is well taken.....I too would like to see a better winning percentage on the OOC games but you can not deny that DD has improved UNT's winning percentage over the last 4 years despite out dismal OOC record against mostly Major D-1 BCS schools for athletic dollars which run our program......(my old English teachers would kill me on that run on sentence.)

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 27, 2005

The out of conference talk is a waste of time. We don't play in Conference USA. We don't play in the Big 12. We don't play in the SEC. We play in the Sun Belt.

Now, believe me, I' m no fan of playing the whip-our-butts-for-money games. I'd rather build it up the way Kansas State did - open the season playing teams we have a realistic chance of beating. Before Kansas State got good, no one accused them of playing an easy schedule. Once they got good, however, everyone accused them of playing cupcakes. Funny how that works.

But, what Bill Snyder convinced the athletic director was that the team developed better if you could play winnable games in the beginning. You don't pick up a ton of confidence from being anhilated for money. Nor are you able to really try different things with your offense and defense.

I like match-ups like we had with Tulsa. Granted, we went into the game with nine new guys on defense, and they have an offense full of experience players. In other years - next year - that game is closer. One we can build with.

I like the idea of starting with a Divison I-AA opponent, then scheduling a couple of Division I-A school we can realistically beat or compete with. The examples here, again, are currently Tulsa and Baylor.

The other side of this is, though, generating money during home games. That mean actually filling up Fouts Field for home games, buying programs, getting a hat or shirt once a year, etc. See, if people are offering us $500,000 to whip us, we have to be able to generate about that amount regularly enough in home games that our AD can say to the LSUs and OUs of the world, "No thanks. We've got a team and program to think about here, too." We're not at that point. And, it's not Darrell Dickey's fault.

Gut check time is here folks. We're young and going to make more mistakes this year than in past years. But, will you still be at the games? Can we be like South Carolina fans and sell out the stadium even to watch an 0-11 team? Or, do we just jump on and off the bandwagon year to year, pointing the finger when things don't go right.

Gut check time. Who's in; who's out?

Edited September 27, 2005 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

Stan R · September 27, 2005

I'm in, as always.

Eagle-96 · September 27, 2005

Can we be like South Carolina fans and sell out the stadium even to watch an 0-11 team? Or, do we just jump on and off the bandwagon year to year, pointing the finger when things don't go right.
Gut check time. Who's in; who's out?
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Are you kidding me? We can't even sell out Fouts as the four time conference champs. If we went 0-11 you'd see just how empty the stadium would be.

That is a ridiculous statement about finger pointing. Just because you voice your opinion about a terrible OOC record does not make you a bandwagoner.

GMoney · September 27, 2005

Sonny Lubick, Colorado State - Six conference titles

Fisher DeBerry, Air Force Academy - Three conference titles

Howard Schnellenberger, Florida Atlantic - One national title

Jeff Bowers, Southern Mississippi - Four conference titles

Ken Hatfield, Rice - Four conference titles

Tom Amstutz, Toledo - Two conference titles

Just a little clarfication on the original post and these coaches. First, I'm not saying fire DD. Actually, I think he's earned the right to go through a rebuilding year and come through the other side and see what happens. There may be a coach or two on the staff I'm not sure about.

The question was about other job offers and if DD has received them, not about will he stay as these coaches above have. If DD has had serious other offers, I don't know but each of these coaches above all have a little different story for why they are where they are:

Sonny Lubick - was offered the UCLA job (before Dorrell) and the Miami job (before Butch Davis). He's a hero at CSU and will never leave (or be fired).

Fisher DeBerry - Generation AF guy. Part of the promote from within coaching staff that been there for some time. He probably will never leave.

Howard Schnell - fired from last job at OU, was AD at FAU, fired the head coach and hired himself, probably not going to get many more job offers at his age.

Jeff Bowers - mentioned on ESPN 2 years ago, that he would not entertain any more coaching offers. He's happy and doesn't want to move his family around again.

Ken Hatfield - been fired from Arkansans and Clemson he's probably happy to no longer have pressure to win.

Tom Amstutz -Toledo is his alma mater.