Dicky Buyout And Replacement

[DallasGreen]

So, before DD was here we where winning what?  The Big 12 championship?

If someone thinks that Dickey can't get us to the next level, and they are committed to spend time/money/effort to make a change, then I can respect thier position.  Even if I don't agree with it.  But more power to you if you are going to make a commitment to what you think is going to help the program grow.

If someone thinks that titles, and bowl games and facility improvements that came under DD are "crappy"... well I can't respect that.  Our program is far ahead of where it was when DD took over.

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Is it really -- check out our Seagrin rating (which will be MUCH worse this week) and see that we are not even a top 25 1-AA team. This is not progress from past teams that were competitive against D-1 competition even though we had lousy facilities and 20 less scholarships. Winning the SBC is not that much above winning the SLC, and we drew just as many people. Even with good players we were still drubbed by mediocre D-1 programs in the DD era. Being the best of the worst has made us a laughing stock in the metroplex. It completely discredits the seasons of JMo & P C. The most digusting thing is the lack of pride in our players. We no longer have the Scott Hall's and Cody Spencer's who would still step on you and spit in your eye even though down by 3 TDs. Phillip Graves is the one exception I see on this team. The rest are content to take their whipping and tuck their tails!! That reflects lack of motivation from the coaching staff. I guarantee you Corky Nelson, Hayden Fry, Chuck Mills, and others would roll some heads on this bunch and that's exactly what's needed.

[LoveMG]

So, before DD was here we where winning what?  The Big 12 championship?

If someone thinks that Dickey can't get us to the next level, and they are committed to spend time/money/effort to make a change, then I can respect thier position.  Even if I don't agree with it.  But more power to you if you are going to make a commitment to what you think is going to help the program grow.

If someone thinks that titles, and bowl games and facility improvements that came under DD are "crappy"... well I can't respect that.  Our program is far ahead of where it was when DD took over.

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Who mentioned facility improvements? and we had no Big Worst championships if that's what you're implying. Take any 1-A bottom 7 teams and form a league then beat them all, what have you really achieved? All I'm saying is that if you're happy about our past glorious sbc championships them you set the bar far too low for me and this program. Never be happy with any 54-whatever loss!

[greensteve]

Problems problems problems...is all I hear

Any SOLUTIONS...I'll take our SBC championships, and continue to build on those...And as for the idiot who put "a nationally recognized coach", I must have missed it in your post, what was his name? O yea I see it now, its blank!!! If your going to start talking that mess then have a name...dont compare a "named coach"--to that pos in s fla. Schnellenberger---all he does is ruin programs with the exception of the coattail championship he won. I'll beat your next post to the punch...we all already know they beat us last year...we were there.

[Mean Green Sig]

Here is the bottom line. You can go back to Div. I-AA and bring in second rate small schools like we did for years and have an attendance of 5,000 people..... like it was during much of the 80's and early 90's....or you could try to compete in Div. I-A like we are doing now. However, you are not going to get students, fans or even recruits interested in UNT football unless you move beyond the 2nd rate schools of the Sun Belt and you are at the very least competitive with schools like Tulsa or K-State.... and you have to start bringing bigger name schools to Denton to play. Face it, the Mean Green's following is very small.

[Cerebus]

check out our Seagrin rating...

Which is still higer now, even in the worst year this team has had in several years, than it was when DD took over.

This is not progress from past teams that...

Still lost the majority of OOC games but also didnt win thier conference?

Hate to break this to you, but we haven't been a top 25 team in over thirty years, and we only did that once. This program is far ahead of where it was when DD took over. Go over the new Mean Green Village if you need to be convinced.

Even with good players we were still drubbed by mediocre D-1 programs in the DD era.

You can replace "DD" with just about every coach we have had, unless you go back 30 years to Hayden Fry, whose clone, I am afraid to tell you, isn't cryogenically frozen waiting to be awoken and lead us to the promise land.

Even if you say "will so and so took us down and almost beat whoever" we still went on the rest of the year and either lost conference or got booted from the playoff earlys.

Being the best of the worst has made us a laughing stock in the metroplex.

We're not the laughing stock of the metroplex, we're ignored, just like SMU and TCU.

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

Problems problems problems...is all I hear

Any SOLUTIONS...I'll take our SBC championships, and continue to build on those...And as for the idiot who put "a nationally recognized coach", I must have missed it in your post, what was his name?  O yea I see it now, its blank!!!  If your going to start talking that mess then have a name...dont compare a "named coach"--to that pos in s fla.  Schnellenberger---all he does is ruin programs with the exception of the coattail championship he won.  I'll beat your next post to the punch...we all already know they beat us last year...we were there.

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Yeah, let's start calling each other names and being obstinate. That's going to get it done.

All I'm saying is pay the money to get someone who's put together a winning program on the 'real' 1-A level already. I think there could be several candidates. Like I said, it would cost a lot of money. Raising the money will take a year, but let's get it going. I'm not talking about someone like Schnellenburger, more like raiding one of the current coaches from a big conference. It may sound impossible to you, and if that's the case I say you are hopeless.

[Mean Green Sig]

Those crappy sbc championships have sent us to the NO Bowl four times. What has winning a normal OOC game done for the program?

By the way, what is a normal ooc game?

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Winning a normal OOC game gives the program credibility, whereas beating beating Arkansas State does nothing but prove we are the best of the worst.

Tap the breaks on the NO Bowl. There is a reason why it is the first bowl game of the year and why they are lucky to get an attendance of 20,000 people there and why no one knows it's even on tv.

[Cerebus]

Who mentioned facility improvements?

I did, because they are a huge part of the program, you have to see that.

Take any 1-A bottom 7 teams and form a league then beat them all, what have you really achieved? 

More than any of the other teams, and enough to get more season ticket holders, new facilities, and media attention since Hayden Fry.

All I'm saying is that if you're happy about our past glorious sbc championships them you set the bar far too low for me and this program. 

Where should the bar be set? What are you doing to make sure we get there? Thats the question everyone should be asking themselves.

Never be happy with any 54-whatever loss! 

Who said they where happy with a 54-whatever loss. I am just saying complaining is easy. Improving the situation is tough.

[Cerebus]

Raising the money will take a year, but let's get it going.

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If that's how you really feel, then waiting for the school or someone else to get it doesn't isn't going to help you much.

I really don't care if people love Coach Dickey and want him signed to a 20 year extension, or want him fired as soon as the charter enters Texas air space.

I am really really tired of people just complaining and venting and doing nothing to try and improve what they seem to think is a bad situation.

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

Winning a normal OOC game gives the program credibility, whereas beating beating Arkansas State does nothing but prove we are the best of the worst.

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Watch out. stAte had sort of an explosion today. Now it was FIU they detonated, but goodness gracious.

[DallasGreen]

Which is still higer now, even in the worst year this team has had in several years, than it was when DD took over. 

Still lost the majority of OOC games but also didnt win thier conference?   

Hate to break this to you, but we haven't been a top 25 team in over thirty years, and we only did that once.  This program is far ahead of where it was when DD took over.  Go over the new Mean Green Village if you need to be convinced.

You can replace "DD" with just about every coach we have had, unless you go back 30 years to Hayden Fry, whose clone, I am afraid to tell you, isn't cryogenically frozen waiting to be awoken and lead us to the promise land. 

Even if you say "will so and so took us down and almost beat whoever" we still went on the rest of the year and either lost conference or got booted from the playoff earlys.

We're not the laughing stock of the metroplex, we're ignored, just like SMU and TCU.

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Since you are counterpointing tell me how this team hasn't totally checked it in these last 2 games. or did lack of a stadium cause that? Make all the excuses you want there are some of us who have seen much better with far less resources. Read the DMN tommorrow if you think we are not a laughing stock-- we made them look like fools for promoting this back to back stuff and longest winning streak against garbage competition. Give me a WIN over SMU and you can have 10 SBC titles in return. The first two games of 2006 will bring the biggest disgrace on record since Dennis Parker apologized for being non-competitive against Nebraska!!

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

I am really really tired of people just complaining and venting and doing nothing to try and improve what they seem to think is a bad situation.

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Man it is not 'seem to think' .... it IS. Could it be worse? Yes. Should we sort of just go along being thankful it isn't? NO.

Well the last I'll say on this is, OK I will lean on the administration; I will work through the Exes; and I urge all of you to do the same.

[Cerebus]

Since you are counterpointing tell me how this team hasn't totally checked it in these last 2 games.

Yeah, I don't think I ever said I didn't think the last two games have been awful, or that I was happy with how the games went.

I am sorry that you have such a vendetta against DD that you can't see how someone could think the program is better of than it was when he took over, and still be angry and want changes, because what is happening now isn't working.

or did lack of a stadium cause that?

I don't think that a stadium is a cure all, or even close to being a #1 problem, save that canned response for someone else.

Make all the excuses you want...

Point all the fingers you want, but that isn't going to make the situation better.

Since you want DD gone, what are you doing to make that happen?

there are some of us who have seen much better with far less resources.

Honest question: What time period are you referring to?

Read the DMN tommorrow if you think we are not a laughing stock-- we made them look like fools for promoting this back to back stuff and longest winning streak against garbage competition.

the DMN is going to ignore us and run a small story just like it did when we won the NOB and pretty much like it did when TCU had a near BCS game season.

The first two games of 2006 will bring the biggest disgrace on record since Dennis Parker apologized for being non-competitive against Nebraska!!

I expected this to be a down year (I did expect for the scores to be more competitive). I expect next year to better, we are in the bottom five of all 1a teams as far as the number of returning starters we have.

[Cerebus]

Man it is not 'seem to think' .... it IS. Could it be worse? Yes. Should we sort of just go along being thankful it isn't? NO.

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I didn't say it wasn't a bad situation. I just said if you think its a bad situation, and all you do is complain, and not really do anything to make the situation better, then why bother complaining?

OK I will lean on the administration; I will work through the Exes; and I urge all of you to do the same.

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Involved alumni and fans is what this school needs!

[GreenBat]

Well the last I'll say on this is, OK I will lean on the administration;

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Thank the Lord!

I will work through the Exes; and I urge all of you to do the same.

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Good luck on getting an Exes officer to call you back.

[Rudy]

Guys, all of this bitching at each other is totally pointless. dd isnt going anywhere and neither are we.

[meangreenfreak]

I think that the buy out clause in Dickey contract involves a 600K figure that gets smaller each year and down to 0 in the last year.

I remember this being discussed around the time that Dickey contract in question. Oddly enough is was about the same time the Jim MacInvale donated his 1 million dollars.

I am not one who thinks it is critical to rid ourselves of Coach Dickey. He has done a ton for this program. However, I don't understand how we can't beat anyone outside the SBC. We will love him again when he wins the SBC.

[Gator]

With 4 conference titles and 4 bowl games you would think recruiting would have become more productive. Talent, however young, does not get hammered like these last two games.

[Cerebus]

I think that the buy out clause in Dickey contract involves a 600K figure that gets smaller each year and down to 0 in the last year.

That buy out is the amount another school would have to pay off to North Texas if they wanted to hire DD.

It is not the amount North Texas would have to pay if they wanted to buy out DD's contract and go another direction.

[Cerebus]

With 4 conference titles and 4 bowl games you would think recruiting would have become more productive.  Talent, however young, does not get hammered like these last two games.

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I don't think you can blame the talent. The talent is there.

If you are running an offensive scheme that everyone has figured out how to overload, it really doesn't matter what kind of talent you have running it.

[chomp]

I understand the frustration with Dickey. I have only followed UNT since I started working here a few years ago and the failure to win OOC games is definitely disappointing. Those who want to fire Dickey seem to naturally assume that his replacement will be an improvement. If UNT does not win the SBC and Dickey were to be fired this year, what coach is going to want to take a job at a school that fired its coach after winning 4 consecutive conference titles? That is a pretty high bar to set for a new coach coming to a program that, while showing great promise for the future, also has some real question marks in terms of funding, fan support, facilities, etc.

Just my <.02

Edited September 25, 2005 by chomp

[Cerebus]

  Those who want to fire Dickey seem to naturally assume that his replacement will be an improvement.  If UNT does not win the SBC and Dickey were to be fired this year, what coach is going to want to take a job at a school that fired its coach after winning 4 consecutive conference titles?  That is a pretty high bar to set for a new coach coming to a program that, while showing great promise for the future, also has some real question marks in terms of funding, fan support, facilities, etc.

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Chomp,

thank you for arguing my point better than I did

I like DD (I am not pleased with the OOC results), I have seen real improvement since he was hired. However, is a coach that was nearly guaranteed to have even more success showed intrest in North Texas....

However, lets look at the past UNT coaches:

*Matt Simon? Never won more than 3 1a games in a year.

*Dennis Parker? Never had a winning season in 1aa.

*Corky Nelson? Won 2, 8, 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 5, and 6 games. Never won a post season game.

*Bob Tyler? Ouch.

*Jerry Moore? No.

*Hayden Frye: YES!

But lets face the facts here, Frye last coached here ***27*** years ago.

If we get rid of DD, how long till we can find a coach that can be as successful? 27 Years? 13? 8? Any of those and the program will be in real trouble.

[0footballfan0]

Nothing wrong with DD, and I am tired of the coach getting the blame.

Snellenberger must be a bad coach at FAU. Replace him. He is 0-4 and getting kicked around as well.

This is a joke, but you get my point.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I understand the frustration with Dickey.  I have only followed UNT since I started working here a few years ago and the failure to win OOC games is definitely disappointing.  Those who want to fire Dickey seem to naturally assume that his replacement will be an improvement.  If UNT does not win the SBC and Dickey were to be fired this year, what coach is going to want to take a job at a school that fired its coach after winning 4 consecutive conference titles?  That is a pretty high bar to set for a new coach coming to a program that, while showing great promise for the future, also has some real question marks in terms of funding, fan support, facilities, etc.

Just my <.02

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Well put, chomp...

I stand amazed at how fickle some NT fans can be. Granted, no one is singing "Happy Days Are Here Again" based on our young team's performance the last 2 weeks, but the key word is still just that..........young. Are we just not going to ever allow NT to have a young team again? Our NT offensive line is not so young but just about every other part of our team is.

Our team is taking their knocks this season and that is probably what this season is going to be all about. For those who threaten to stop their support and/or attendance for the balance of this season, that ultimately only hurts those who were here before DD arriived and those who will be here once DD moves on; in other words my fine feathered Eagle friends, that would be us--the fans and the alums.

Some of you get off on self-inflicted wounds? Well, just stop supporting this Mean Green football team with your financial gifts and your regular attendance because THAT is the very ammo that Chancellor Lee Jackson and the anti-athletic forces on campus need. It has nothing to do with the last 2 week's score of 2 football games. And FWIW, NT Board of Regent Chairman Bobby Ray is the main cog in the wheel at NT and it is he who has more to do with LJ or DD's future than any 10 influential NT alums.

If there are intentions from anyone on this message board to actually think they can hurt DD by with-holding financial support or by ceasing to attend our remaining home football games, then you are being very naive because don't forget that it will be DD who still collects his pay checks no matter what you do (which on some of your parts I'm afraid may be more about working on an ulcer than anything else).

Hey, we have very well organized Game Day activities in place at NT no matter our W/L record and no matter our oppenent. What about this concept: Lets just support the Mean Green football team now just like we would any family member who might be going thru bad times, that is, unless you enjoy kicking any of your family members in the family jewels when they are down, too.

AND....Lee Jackson is too late to stop what has already begun on those 200 acres at our Eagle Point Campus. Come on, people, lets give him some credit for being an intelligent man who would merely be showing complete abject stupidity to tamper with the toy deparmtent (varsity athletics) of the 4'th largest university in the Lone Star State AND where the largest group of NT alums will ever gather at the same time and place on campus, ie, a Mean Green home football game. Anyone think he wants to get rid of all that and still hang onto his job and his scalp?

GMG!

Edited September 25, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[rcade]

So what should we do to win OOC games?

Schedule more out of conference games against teams we have a realistic chance of beating, like Tulsa, Baylor, and the University of South Florida, and less paycheck games like Kansas State, Texas, and Alabama.

A team that's good enough to run the Belt for four straight years is good enough to beat some bottom-25 I-A teams.