UNT in other conferences

[eulesseagle]

With this year's team how would UNT fare in these conferences by the end of the season??

1. Big 12

2. Big 10

3. SEC

4. ACC

5. MWC

6. C-USA

7. MAC

8. PAC

9. WAC

[fan19740]

we would lose a lot more games.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

----Sometimes it is better to be the big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. We lost to Baylor who was the worse team in the Big-12 and the SEC might even be more difficult (except Vandy). We would be very competive in CUSA, Mac, and, WAC... the rest we would likely struggle with a 2-3 conference wins at most.

---We are getting there but not there yet in my opinion. Enjoy our success and be careful what we ask for... we might actually get it and wish we hadn't. With the Belt we have a pretty good situation... conference sucess and the ability to play good out of conference opponents if we wish (unfortunately on the road mostly). We have some control on our stronger opponents. Baylor on the other hand is forced to play top-10 teams as conference games and are seeking weaker non-conf. teams in order to hope for wins. They have very little fan excitment and no bowl games.

Edited August 25, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[BleedGreen64]

ScreaminEagle is right on target. However if we were in a BCS conference (primarily the SEC or Big 12) our recruiting would improve so that we woule be a contender in those conferences within four years.

[eeally]

we would be hurting right now this year. But in 3 yrs or less we would compete for titles like everyone else. Recruits would flock here. Sun Belt gets the last nod.

If we were Big 12 we would hit a bowl game no later than 3 yrs. (8 out of 12 teams get a bowl bid) its not that big of a deal.

[UNTLifer]

we would be hurting right now this year. But in 3 yrs or less we would compete for titles like everyone else. Recruits would flock here. Sun Belt gets the last nod.

If we were Big 12 we would hit a bowl game no later than 3 yrs. (8 out of 12 teams get a bowl bid) its not that big of a deal.

←

Love your enthusiasm, but why would we be a contender in four years when the likes of Baylor, Vanderbilt, etc... dwell at the bottom of BcS conferences?

[eeally]

Maybe 3 yrs is a stretch for a Big 12 title. But lets look at Baylor Sports.

Because partly of their conf.

Nat Champs in WBB.

NCAA college WS.

National Track Champs.

$ for facilities from Big 12 conf pull.

I think everything goes in cylces. Yes UT, AM,OK, etc. will always have a team. But look at the SWC. Every team had at one point won the Conf. and a trip to the Cotten bowl. Even Iowa State last year almost put themselves over the top. Who would think they could ever handle Nebraska. My point is a better conf. is only a good thing for all sports.

[NT91]

We should be in C-USA.. That should be our goal.

[Gakusei]

If you're talking football, we'd finish dead last in every BCS conference, and in the bottom 1/4 of the non-BCS conferences for a long time. Basketball we could become more competitive more quickly due to the facility we have.

[stebo]

If you're talking football, we'd finish dead last in every BCS conference, and in the bottom 1/4 of the non-BCS conferences for a long time.  Basketball we could become more competitive more quickly due to the facility we have.

←

Wrong, we would be competitive in the MAC and the WAC for football. As for basketball, we have to work on winning some Sun Belt games before I can believe that we would compete at a higher level. Maybe getting past the first round of the conference tourney. The new basketball schedule came out today and it absolutely sucks. Not one home game to promote.

[Gakusei]

Unless the WAC and MAC have more horrible facilities than we do, I can't imagine us being competitive. Not to mention the fact that we're 3-20 out of conference and can't even come close to beating the #4 team of CUSA. Why would we be so competitive all of the sudden?

Basketball I think we could become more competitive over time simply because people don't walk into the Super Pit and wonder what high school plays there.

[GreenN'walinsVet]

Love your enthusiasm, but why would we be a contender in four years when the likes of Baylor, Vanderbilt, etc... dwell at the bottom of BcS conferences?

←

There is one glaring difference between NT and Baylor, if we were moving to the Big XII! That major difference is that we are a state supported school with a high enrollment versus Baylor which is a small private school. That alone will have us competing at a high level within 3 or 4 years. Its all about money when trying to compete at that level, and im quite certain that in this scenerio with in 2 or 3 years we would have all the money we would need, where as Baylor just cant afford to keep up with the Jones becuase of the lack of enrollment and state funds.

[NT80]

With this year's team how would UNT fare in these conferences by the end of the season??

1.  Big 12

2.  Big 10

3.  SEC

4.  ACC

5.  MWC

6.  C-USA

7.  MAC

8.  PAC 10

9.  WAC

←

I predict our home attendance average would go way up in all conferences except the MAC.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

----I agree with lot of what is said and disagree with a lot of it.... Without a new stadium we will not be on a extremely competitive level with the Big-12 schools in 3-4 years, we would be winning some but still would have recruiting problems . Personally I think a lot of recruits want to go where they can play and can win and get some attention......especially those who have NFL visions.

---Baylor may not be a state school but they have a rather large pot of money and represent an extremely large religious group.... Notre Dame, SoCal. and Boston College are also private schools and they get by. Baylor has been horrible in football and basketball program has been extremely corrupt (they deserve it for hiring that old SMU coach, Bliss, from the SMU death penalty days) Their other programs , baseball and womens programs are doing well. Baylor also has a slight image problem and some players do not want to go to a "Southern Baptist" school even though we know it is not that more religious than a most other places. [The recent basketball mess demonstrates that if nothing else]

---In basketball we did rather well at times when a member of the Missouri Valley when it contained Cinncinati, Lousiville, Memphis and then a national power Wichita. Most of you can not remember that era. Those games were fun to go to. After that period, Blakely found we were in a catch-22 situation as an independent.... be weak, everyone would play you.... but get better and no one wanted to play a team without a big reputation. It was a no-win situation. We could do well quickly in basketball as a member of a well-known conference. If you have a good coach and can recruit only 2-3 outstanding athletes in basketball you are a problem to deal with... not so in football which needs many more good players.

---We would not regularly finish last in a BCS conference, but we would have trouble doing well. Some seems to think the MAC and WAC are BCS, they aren't and we could be extremely competive however recruiting becomes a problem again with those conferences because are not high profile conferences in Texas. No one in Texas cares or reads about those conferences. CUSA will be better shortly with SMU, Rice, UTEP, Houston, together along with Tulsa and Tulane nearby. That is definitely the place to go if we move.

--- I am not as "blue" as some are on this board.. We are being successful, we just just need to start winning some non-conference games to get attention and respect from people in the state of Texas and beyond. If our conference mates win that will help some as well.

---For what is is worth the sports that grab attenion in Texas is FOOTBALL and men's basketball... not the rest very much..

Edited August 25, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNTLifer]

There is one glaring difference between NT and Baylor, if we were moving to the Big XII!  That major difference is that we are a state supported school with a high enrollment versus Baylor which is a small private school.  That alone will have us competing at a high level within 3 or 4 years.  Its all about money when trying to compete at that level, and im quite certain that in this scenerio with in 2 or 3 years we would have all the money we would need, where as Baylor just cant afford to keep up with the Jones becuase of the lack of enrollment and state funds.

←

Baylor has a huge endowement and many donors to their school and athletic department, something we don't have. You don't build the facilities BU built with state funds, you build it with conference revenue and private donations. They currently receive both, while we would only add the conference revenue.

Gaksuei, regarding basketball making a jump, again, I ask why? We have had a great facility for years. The last few years we have been in a conference that is not that far below the WAC were SMU and TCU resided prior to TCU going CUSA. Now the Belt wasn't close to CUSA with Louisville, Marquette, Memphis, etc... but again not much difference between the Belt and the WAC. The Super Pit is the best facility in the Metroplex compared to SMU and TCU and is not that far behind Baylor. The facility hasn't made a big difference in our recruiting. Our decline in Bball was directly related to leaving the Missouri Valley Conference and going independent. I loved Blakely, but he mainly succeed with the prior coaches recruits.

The administration must put an emphasis on excelling in athletics and then the alumni will start to buy into it. The problem with North Texas is that none of the past administrations has ever put an emphasis on athletics. In fact, some could argue that they ignored athletics all together.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

UNT-Lifer........ it is obvious you have been around a while and understand the situation very well. Nothing is all that simple.

[Legal Eagle]

good discussion

[Gakusei]

Gaksuei, regarding basketball making a jump, again, I ask why?  We have had a great facility for years.  The last few years we have been in a conference that is not that far below the WAC were SMU and TCU resided prior to TCU going CUSA.  Now the Belt wasn't close to CUSA with Louisville, Marquette, Memphis, etc... but again not much difference between the Belt and the WAC.  The Super Pit is the best facility in the Metroplex compared to SMU and TCU and is not that far behind Baylor.  The facility hasn't made a big difference in our recruiting.  Our decline in Bball was directly related to leaving the Missouri Valley Conference and going independent.  I loved Blakely, but he mainly succeed with the prior coaches recruits. 

←

I thought our decline in recruiting was due to Vic Trilli being a moron?

[UNTLifer]

He was a very important part of the decline, but I've tried to erase the Trilli years from my memory, much like the Moore/Tyler/Simon/Parker years of football.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Moore and Tyler hurt the program that Fry had built up. (We should have hired one of Fry's assistants who wanted the job). The item that hurt us the worse was we not doing well when I-AA was created and we no longer a member of a conference* so we really took a hit that has taken 15+ years to recover from.

One good thing we have to say about us is that UT-Arlington, Lamar Univ, and West Texas State were also put into I-AA.....and our football program has survived and made it back while the other three have disappeared or declined to an even lower level.

*thanks SMU, for voting against our SWC admission and getting two more to vote with you.

Edited August 25, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Gakusei]

He was a very important part of the decline, but I've tried to erase the Trilli years from my memory, much like the Moore/Tyler/Simon/Parker years of football.

←

My point was that it's taking JJ a while to build up his recruiting after all of that. I think we're starting to get some impressive recruits relative to where we're at. I mean in the past two years we've taken recruits away from Arizona and Texas A&M. That's progress for a consistent 250+ ranked program, I think.

Whether or not JJ is the coach to get it done on the court, I still don't know. His recruiting impresses me, though.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Baylor has a huge endowement and many donors to their school and athletic department, something we don't have.  You don't build the facilities BU built with state funds, you build it with conference revenue and private donations.  They currently receive both, while we would only add the conference revenue.

Gaksuei, regarding basketball making a jump, again, I ask why?  We have had a great facility for years.  The last few years we have been in a conference that is not that far below the WAC were SMU and TCU resided prior to TCU going CUSA.  Now the Belt wasn't close to CUSA with Louisville, Marquette, Memphis, etc... but again not much difference between the Belt and the WAC.  The Super Pit is the best facility in the Metroplex compared to SMU and TCU and is not that far behind Baylor.  The facility hasn't made a big difference in our recruiting.  Our decline in Bball was directly related to leaving the Missouri Valley Conference and going independent.  I loved Blakely, but he mainly succeed with the prior coaches recruits. 

The administration must put an emphasis on excelling in athletics and then the alumni will start to buy into it.  The problem with North Texas is that none of the past administrations has ever put an emphasis on athletics.  In fact, some could argue that they ignored athletics all together.

←

NT dropped the ball with the Super Pit because we started nickel and dime-ing our basketball budget for almost a quarter of a century and we paid dearly for it. It would be nice to have a 2006 Jaguar but you do have to put gas in the thing for it to advance and move forward.

The key to utilizing our new football stadium to the max is to go to the next level in recruiting, the continued winning of football games (some high profile OOC wins would be nice, too, but that comes with better recruiting that is attainable because we have better facilties, etc, etc, etc; and going to bowl games while winning a few of those as well.

[Gakusei]

I still maintain that we should put more time and effort into basketball than football, because we can actually gain money/recognition in that. We are in Texas, though.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

  It would be nice to have a 2006 Jaguar but you do have to put gas in the thing for it to advance and move forward.

←

---Geez... Can we even afford the gas once we own a Jag. Gas was only about $1.15 during 2000 ..... now it is $2.50+. Glad I no longer own a 40-gallon suburban.

---Basketball is rather inexpensive compared to football as well, fewer scholarships, less equiptment, and travel is more often but with less people and stuff. We should be able to do better.

--- Basketball is one sport that great athletes can be found in junior colleges. Most of those players fall into three groups.... could not get into 4-yr schools originally because of SAT scores, good and sometimes overlooked, and last some just aren't as good. Here in Midland/Odessa area, Spud Webb (overlooked), Mookie Blaylock and Larry Johnson (both Sat problems) went on to bigger and better things at 4-year schools and into the NBA.. During the late 80's when OU and Kansas played for the National championship... three MC alums were playing in that game.. one for Kansas and 2 for OU. The other two starters from that MCteam had gone to Tech and Arizona which also had good seasons.

Three of ours last year advanced to NCAA teams... Houston, Gonzaga, and another I can't remember, maybe Texas. They have played for two years and not just sat the bench as is the case had they gone to a 4 year NCAA school in the beginning.

Most juco transfers are older, more experienced, more mature, and stay out of trouble.

Edited August 25, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[eeally]

I agree. Basketball could be a huge jumping point for UNT. You only need 11 players and with the wealth of talent and popularity of the sport it would not take much. I think JJ is doing good things and can get us to where we need to go.

Also to allude to Baylor. They are Tax Exepmt since they are part of the church. When you have alumni that are DR's Laywers, Dentist, Nurses. You need tax shelters and what is a great shelter is to donate to your university that you work for. ie Baylor Medical. Any tax accountants to help me out here? I may be wrong!!