Dickey, Villareal contract extensions

[Cerebus]

How did he give up? Explain it to me. Did he run out there and pull J-mo's hamstring?

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Yes, in fact, if you carefully watch the game film... *just* as DD takes a sip of his diet coke... you see J-Mo's hamstring snap back and to the left!

*rewind* Back and to the Left

*rewind* Back and to the Left

*rewind* Back and to the Left

*rewind* Back and to the Left

*rewind* Back and to the Left

*rewind* Back and to the Left...

!

[Eagle-96]

punting on 4th and 1 in the middle of the 4th quarter.

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You mean when we were down 34-14 and punted from our own 29? Yeah that was a real give up considering we had only gained 27 yards in the 2nd half to that point and were down to our third string running back.

[NTEagle08]

You mean when we were down 34-14 and punted from our own 29? Yeah that was a real give up considering we had only gained 27 yards in the 2nd half to that point and were down to our third string running back.

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it is giving up because I hadn't seen the clock reach 0:00 yet. I could understand if it was 4th and 10, but it was 4th and 1. There were 6 drives after that punt. What did they have to lose by going for it?

[stebo]

You mean when we were down 34-14 and punted from our own 29? Yeah that was a real give up considering we had only gained 27 yards in the 2nd half to that point and were down to our third string running back.

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That is crazy, if you are down by 20 and get to 4th and 1 - you go for it. What does it matter if you lose by another 7 points? DD mailed it in on that game. I wouldn't change coaches over it but it definitely deserves criticism. 4th and 1 - down by 20 - you GO FOR IT (the first down at least)... if it had been 4th and 4 or 4th and 7 - then maybe you punt away - but even then I think you would have to think that over to what message that sends to to your offense.

[Cerebus]

I wish he had gone for it.

However, field position is very important to Dickey, and I am sure he didnt want to turn a 20pt game into a 27pt game at that point either.

[GreenN'walinsVet]

You have to look at it this way. A twenty point deficit in the middle of the 4th quarter is not impossible, but a 27 point deficit pretty much signifies the perverbial nail in the coffin.

[GrandGreen]

I am not against paying DD and RV as much is practical, however I see no benefit in extending contracts more than a couple of years out. How does it benefit the school? The coaches or AD will leave in a second if they perceive a better deal out there. But if the opposite occurs and the school wants to make a change, it is greatly hindered by the contract.

Lame duck coach if you don't have a 4 year contract? Since DD's recruiting sytle is essentially to recruit the best players possible after most of the schools have met their recruiting quotas; the lack of a contract for even one more year would not significantly harm recruiting. Imo, lifetime or no contract would not significantly effect DD's recruiting.

In any case, I would if legal put clauses in RV's contract that part of his salary be forfeited everytime he openingly applies for another job while under contract for over one more year. I can't believe that the BOD was impressed with his applying for two Belt jobs if they truely want him to remain here. Likewise, I would put some type of penalty in DD's contract for everytime he refers to the less than idea situation he has here at NT. DD has reduced the number of such statements, but still can't control himself all the time. DD's success has all been against Belt teams who have no overall advantages over NT in football budget or facilities(even with Fouts), and are all at a substantial disadvantage in local recruiting areas.

[Eagle-96]

That is crazy, if you are down by 20 and get to 4th and 1 - you go for it.  What does it matter if you lose by another 7 points?  DD mailed it in on that game.  I wouldn't change coaches over it but it definitely deserves criticism.  4th and 1 - down by 20 - you GO FOR IT (the first down at least)... if it had been 4th and 4 or 4th and 7 - then maybe you punt away - but even then I think you would have to think that over to what message that sends to to your offense.

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I wish he had gone for it to but I see the reasoning behind why he wanted to punt. We came out and punted the ball and put Baylor on their own 22 instead of taking a chance of putting them on our 29. We forced them to punt and gave ourselves the ball back with the score still 34-14. We still couldn't move the ball but at least we were still in position to win if the offense gets out of the doldrums. Be mad at the DD style of play, but to say he gave up is a far stretch. We can agree to disagree but we all still support the Mean Green and I respect your opinions.

[NTEagle08]

You have to look at it this way.  A twenty point deficit in the middle of the 4th quarter is not impossible, but a 27 point deficit pretty much signifies the perverbial nail in the coffin.

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And that's a big problem I have with DD is his play not to lose attitude in non-conference games. If it had been a conference game and he had done that, more people would have been up in arms about it on this board.

[Eagle-96]

In any case, I would if legal put clauses in RV's contract that part of his salary be forfeited everytime he openingly applies for another job while under contract for over one more year.  I can't believe that the BOD was impressed with his applying for two Belt jobs if they truely want him to remain here.  Likewise, I would put some type of penalty in DD's contract for everytime he refers to the less than idea situation he has here at NT.  DD has reduced the number of such statements, but still can't control himself all the time.  DD's success has all been against Belt teams who have no overall advantages over NT in football budget or facilities(even with Fouts), and are all at a substantial disadvantage in local recruiting areas.

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I don't think any amount of money or incentives will ever get DD to control his mouth. I think it is all a part of his "us against the world" attitude that he tries to instill in his team. He uses it as motivation and probably always will.

[GreenTiger_OriginalAcct]

52-14 * The score from the 2003 game UNT over Baylor.

That is the number one reason why I didn't mind the punt on 4th and 1. Not making it there would have given Baylor another chance on a short field to score again. And don't think they wouldn't have tried. I promise you that they were still thinking about the 52 points we hung on them in Denton and would have loved to have returned the favor.

[GreenN'walinsVet]

And that's a big problem I have with DD is his play not to lose attitude in non-conference games. If it had been a conference game and he had done that, more people would have been up in arms about it on this board.

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If you ask me going for it in the situation is giving up cuz if you dont make it then the game is over. By punting you still give yourself a chance to win the game.

I know yall will say but IF we get it then were in the game, true but to me the risk ( not making it and the game is over) of going for it at the situation doesnt outway the reward ( 1st and 10 on our own 30 or 35, with an offense that couldnt move the ball all half).

[Cerebus]

If you ask me going for it in the situation is giving up cuz if you dont make it then the game is over.  By punting you still give yourself a chance to win the game. 

I know yall will say but IF we get it then were in the game, true but to me the risk ( not making it and the game is over) of going for it at the situation doesnt outway the reward ( 1st and 10 on our own 30 or 35, with an offense that couldnt move the ball all half).

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agreed

[Eagle-96]

This thread has officially been hijacked. If you ever want to see your thread again. Please deposit $1,000,000 dollars in a Swiss Bank Account by 2:00PM. Edited August 18, 2005 by Eagle-96

[Cerebus]

Since DD's recruiting sytle is essentially to recruit the best players possible after most of the schools have met their recruiting quotas;

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Where did that idea come from? Do you think other people didn't want Jamario? Don't you remember how happy everyone was when we got Mike Pruitt to sign here after Kansas thought they had him wrapped up? Shawn Early signed with us when there where ACC/SEC offers in the works.

Yeah, if OU and UT get into a bidding war over a player, then its probably not worth our time to rack up the frequent flier miles to his house, but we do go after players that other schools want, and we have landed several.

Also, why do so many people think there haven't been intrest/offers in DD? Do you expect RV to call up the DRC and rush a news release everytime a school asks to speak with one of our coaches? That sort of thing isn't going to get our unless there is a leak.

[NTEagle08]

Also, why do so many people think there haven't been intrest/offers in DD?  Do you expect RV to call up the DRC and rush a news release everytime a school asks to speak with one of our coaches?  That sort of thing isn't going to get our unless there is a leak.

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Usually when other teams are looking for a new coach, it somehow gets out about who they are looking for to the local media. I haven't heard Dickey's name come up in anything recently. Local media in NM and TN got wind of those 2 schools looking at RV for their AD position. And oviously I wouldn't expect RV to go to the DRC and tell them that, that would be pointless, but at the same time I wouldn't expect the DRC to do enough journalistic digging to find it out either.

[UNTLifer]

Usually when other teams are looking for a new coach, it somehow gets out about who they are looking for to the local media. I haven't heard Dickey's name come up in anything recently. Local media in NM and TN got wind of those 2 schools looking at RV for their AD position. And oviously I wouldn't expect RV to go to the DRC and tell them that, that would be pointless, but at the same time I wouldn't expect the DRC to do enough journalistic digging to find it out either.

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Aren't you contradicting yourself? First you say it usually gets out to the local media, but then later you state that you found out about RV from local media in New Mexico and Tennessee. Or, is your first reference to "local media" not about the DFW/Denton market?

[NTEagle08]

Aren't you contradicting yourself?  First you say it usually gets out to the local media, but then later you state that you found out about RV from local media in New Mexico and Tennessee.  Or, is your first reference to "local media" not about the DFW/Denton market?

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My first reference to local media was to the media that is local to the area around MTSU and NMSU, not about the DFW area.

Edited August 18, 2005 by NTEagle08

[Cerebus]

Usually when other teams are looking for a new coach, it somehow gets out about who they are looking for to the local media. I haven't heard Dickey's name come up in anything recently. Local media in NM and TN got wind of those 2 schools looking at RV for their AD position. And oviously I wouldn't expect RV to go to the DRC and tell them that, that would be pointless, but at the same time I wouldn't expect the DRC to do enough journalistic digging to find it out either.

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So the fact that there where no Dickey stories proves the DRC can dig up these stories on thier own, and the fact that there where RV stories proves they can't dig them up on thier own?

I may have to do more reading on this.

While I haven't been reading DD's email, I know that sources I trust have told me that he has had intrest and job offers.

[Cerebus]

My first reference to local media was to the media that is local to the area around MTSU and NMSU, not about the DFW area.

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So you are expecting the mtsu beat writer to find out about job offers to the North Texas coach?

[NTEagle08]

So the fact that there where no Dickey stories proves the DRC can dig up these stories on thier own, and the fact that there where RV stories proves they can't dig them up on thier own? 

I may have to do more reading on this.  

While I haven't been reading DD's email, I know that sources I trust have told me that he has had intrest and job offers.

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you've lost me on that, what I meant to say was that when teams are looking for a new coach that gets out to the local media about who they are looking at. Like say if oh I don't know UL-Lafayette was looking for a new coach, the Lafayette newspapers would more than likely pick up on who they are looking at.

[NTEagle08]

So you are expecting the mtsu beat writer to find out about job offers to the North Texas coach?

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I would if Dickey had gotten a job offer to MTSU if that ever happened.

[GrandGreen]

Where did that idea come from? Do you think other people didn't want Jamario? Don't you remember how happy everyone was when we got Mike Pruitt to sign here after Kansas thought they had him wrapped up? Shawn Early signed with us when there where ACC/SEC offers in the works.

My idea came from observing DD's recruiting classes.

Sometimes the exception proves the rule. Jamario was a great sign but was not heavily recruited until the end and DD was on him early compared to other programs which supports your position. Signing Pruitt might have had something to do with signing 5 or 6 of his JC team mates. My glasses are as green as anyone's, but sometimes you have to face facts. Look at Texas Football ratings of NT last recruiting class, not only last but last by a long shot. Before you downgrade the recruiting ratings, which is the usual response. Think about the issue being discussed, not how good the recruits turn out to be but the competition for the recruits. When an 1-A program can count on one hand the number of recuits with multiple I-A offers then I doubt contract status is a major recruiting factor.

[Cerebus]

you've lost me on that, what I meant to say was that when teams are looking for a new coach that gets out to the local media about who they are looking at. Like say if oh I don't know UL-Lafayette was looking for a new coach, the Lafayette newspapers would more than likely pick up on who they are looking at.

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Not always. DD has had intrest, only once has that gotten out into the papers.

[Cerebus]

Look at Texas Football ratings of NT last recruiting class, not only last but last by a long shot.  Before you downgrade the recruiting ratings, which is the usual response.  Think about the issue being discussed, not how good the recruits turn out to be but the competition for the recruits.  When an 1-A program can count on one hand the number of recuits with multiple I-A offers then I doubt contract status is a major recruiting factor.

So, we should rank our recruits *NOT* by how they performed on the field, but how many people we beat to get them? Grand, excuse me, but thats INSANE.

No one besides us recruited Patrick Cobbs. No one, not one single 1A offer.

No one besides us recruited Brandon Monroe. Again, not another 1a offer.

So because of that, they are worth less than James Battle? I mean, the competition for Battle was intense, and alot of people offered him. Man, wish we could have landed him instead of Patrick Cobbs.

And, SMU beats us in recruiting every year. Thier classes are ranked higher, they get more state 100 recruits, they get more people that other schools are after. Guess what? We would still beat them.

You are putting way too much effort into these recruit rankings. I personally think our coaching staff is one of the best in the state in finding real talent. Some of the very best people on our teams only received a scholie offer from us.