Seminoles Good Gfround For Name Appeal

[MeanGreen61]

Miami Herald

Executive committee member Sidney McPhee, president of Middle Tennessee State University, said he also would consider the new information. He also has been swamped with e-mails from FSU boosters.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ty/12363997.htm

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Miami Herald

Executive committee member Sidney McPhee, president of Middle Tennessee State University, said he also would consider the new information. He also has been swamped with e-mails from FSU boosters.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ty/12363997.htm

←

----Can't read this.....without signing up. I am aware that a person suggested we post links instead of articles and the reason why... but when it can't be read without signing in ---maybe the article should be posted anyway, especialy from a source that is a likely one time deal anyway.

[MeanGreen61]

Posted on Fri, Aug. 12, 2005

FSU NICKNAME

Official: Seminoles have 'good grounds' for appeal

A 'misrepresented' point of view could help Florida State's appeal of the NCAA's decision that the Seminoles nickname is `hostile and abusive.'

From Herald Wire Services

A controversial NCAA decision restricting Florida State University's use of an American Indian mascot was based on incomplete information and will be reconsidered, a top NCAA official said Thursday.

Walter Harrison, who chairs the committee that approved a policy directed at 18 schools with ''hostile and abusive'' American Indian mascots, said FSU has ''good grounds'' to appeal.

Among the reasons, he said, are that the NCAA Executive Committee thought the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma opposed FSU's use of the Seminole image as a mascot.

That was based partly on letters the committee received from David Narcomey, a member of the General Council of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma.

But Narcomey was not authorized to speak on behalf of the tribal nation and ''misrepresented'' its view, the tribe's attorney general said Thursday.

In fact, Narcomey pushed for a tribal resolution condemning the use of American Indian mascots and imagery, specifically at FSU. It was defeated last month by an 18-2 vote.

NEW EFFORTS

Harrison, flooded with hundreds of e-mails from FSU fans, also said Thursday he wants to better understand FSU's history with the Seminoles.

FSU has vowed to fight the NCAA decision.

Trustees voted Thursday to appeal the rule that, starting February, would bar the use of American Indian symbols at championship events.

''If there are appeals or attempts to change legislation, I can listen to different things,'' said Harrison, who is also president of the University of Hartford.

Harrison said he decided the NCAA should listen to FSU's arguments even before he discovered Thursday's news about the Oklahoma Seminoles.

But the new information won't necessarily change the outcome, he said. The Executive Committee's decision, he added, did not hinge on whether the Oklahoma group opposed FSU's use of American Indian mascots.

''I don't know how we would vote on it,'' Harrison said. ``But it would seem to be good grounds for a waiver request.''

FSU and the other 17 schools, including Illinois and Utah, can appeal to the Executive Committee or seek an amendment to the new rules. That would need the Executive Committee's blessing.

Two other members of the 19-person Executive Committee said the matter needs further review in light of the stance of the Oklahoma Seminoles.

''I think this is material new information,'' said committee member Arthur Kirk Jr., president of Saint Leo University. ``It is not only new, but it is counter information from what we had earlier.''

Could it have pushed FSU off the NCAA's list of 18 schools?

''I think that is a very valid question,'' Kirk said.

Executive committee member Sidney McPhee, president of Middle Tennessee State University, said he also would consider the new information. He also has been swamped with e-mails from FSU boosters.

LED ASTRAY?

The NCAA has been studying the issue for years and, in November 2004 asked 33 schools to submit a self-evaluation about their use of American Indian mascots. A special committee developed recommendations that were considered by the Executive Committee last week.

That's when Charlotte Westerhaus, the NCAA's vice president for diversity and inclusion, told the Executive Committee that the Oklahoma Seminoles opposed the practice at FSU. She was relying on letters from Narcomey, including one dated June 1 in which he said he was crafting a resolution condemning FSU's use of the Seminole name and imagery.

Narcomey's letter did not mention that the Intertribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes passed that resolution in 2001 and that it spoke generally about derogatory images that perpetuate stereotypes.

It did not name specific schools or mascots.

Nor did he mention that he sits on boards of organizations with a political agenda, including the Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism, and that he has protested at FSU in the past.

Narcomey soon became the one speaking for the 14,000 Seminoles in Oklahoma.

But he was ''unauthorized'' to speak on behalf of the nation and ''misrepresented'' its view on the issue, said Jennifer McBee, the attorney general for the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma.

[MeanGreenBuzz]

I thought they were named after the Seminoles of Florida anyway?

P.S. Post #1000!

Edited August 12, 2005 by MeanGreenBuzz

[meangreenfreak]

I thought they were named after the Seminoles of Florida anyway? 

P.S. Post #1000!

←

Congratulations!

Edited August 12, 2005 by meangreenfreak

[Travis]

I just dont see how it would be fair if they were to allow FSU to keep their nickname and not every other school.

I am upset with the NCAA for not taking a more firm stance on this. They shouldn't have ever made such a ban in the first place.

[Arkstfan]

Humm. ASU's president said they had no idea the decision was coming which he said was unusual. Wonder how it is that the president of a conference mate neglected to warn us or ULM about it?

[MeanGreenBuzz]

I think MTSU should have to change its name too. Blue Raiders is "hostile and abusive" to all the friendly pirates out there.

Also, thank you MGF.

[Eagle91Gator95]

I just dont see how it would be fair if they were to allow FSU to keep their nickname and not every other school. 

I am upset with the NCAA for not taking a more firm stance on this.  They shouldn't have ever made such a ban in the first place.

←

In regard to your first comment, FSWHO has worked in conjunction with the Seminole Nation of Florida to ensure that all imagery, mascots, traditions, etc. are in keeping with the heritage of the group, and has their official blessing. Very different than a generic indian logo and costume.

In regard to your second comment, I am too confused to comment!

[UNTFan23]

My biggest concern is the slippery slope the NCAA seems to have started to slide down.

[MootPoint]

My biggest concern is the slippery slope the NCAA seems to have started to slide down.

←

First the confederate flag, now Indians, next will have to be ANIMALS! Woo! PETA is licking their chops now

[Arkstfan]

I think MTSU should have to change its name too.  Blue Raiders is "hostile and abusive" to all the friendly pirates out there.

Also, thank you MGF.

←

You mean their stolen name? From the MTSU web site.

During football season that year, the Murfreesboro Daily News Journal held a contest to name the team. The late Charles Sarver, then a Middle Tennessee football player and later principal at White County High School in Sparta, Tenn., won the $5 prize for his entry of "Blue Raiders."

Sarver later indicated he had "borrowed" the nickname of the Colgate Red Raiders, but substituted MTSU Blue for Colgate Red. Ever since then, Middle Tennessee athletic teams have been known as the Blue Raiders.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

----I am shocked at that theft...... At least we used something very original...... Eagles.

--To be politically and socially correct I guess we will next have to use to Fruit or Veggie mascots.. NT Green Beans, MTSU Blue-berries or LSU Pussy-Willows. Surely they can't object ...much.

Edited August 12, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Arkstfan]

----I am shocked at that theft...... At least we used something very original...... Eagles. 

--To be politically and socially correct I guess we will next have to use to Fruit or Veggie mascots.. NT Green Beans, MTSU Blue-berries or LSU Pussy-Willows.  Surely they can't object ...much.

←

You guys go right ahead and be fruits

[stebo]

You guys go right ahead and be fruits 

←

So what is your team going to be called now? Seriously, if you are on that list - and you aren't fighting this - then you must be changing your nickname (I take it?)

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

You guys go right ahead and be fruits 

←

---I am pretty sure that "Indians" is a variety of peaches. I haven't seen it in a while but it was when I was a kid ( my parents had several trees of them ). Guess that makes you a fruit as well..... LOL.

---Now you won't need to change your name just use a guy dressed as a peach as a mascot.

Edited August 12, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

error

Edited August 12, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNTFan23]

So what is your team going to be called now?  Seriously, if you are on that list - and you aren't fighting this - then you must be changing your nickname (I take it?)

←

Maybe I should start a poll ...

Name the new ASU mascot:

Edited August 13, 2005 by UNTFan23

[MootPoint]

Maybe I should start a poll ...

Name the new ASU mascot:

←

Is that for real!?

[Arkstfan]

Is that for real!?  

←

THAT is Red our "spirit character"

The guy that does it is awesome, he's won tons of awards (and even managed to crack me up by throwing bags of pork rinds into the stands during the Arkansas game).

But the suit looks like Doug Funny after going to Jamica and getting a new hairdo and a sunburn

[Arkstfan]

So what is your team going to be called now?  Seriously, if you are on that list - and you aren't fighting this - then you must be changing your nickname (I take it?)

←

Who knows?

I expect we will appeal. We will be one of the schools that won't win our appeal (Florida State will win their appeal).

At that point...

We might change or the administration might just say screw it and stay the Indians. The only real impact is in NCAA run post-season events. You can figure we'll be a lower seed any time we make it so we'll be in road uniforms and most of our road unis say "Arkansas State" instead of "Indians". The only thing we'd have to change would be the logo on those uniforms and that just means digging out the old stAte logo instead of the stylized ASU with the Indian embedded. Take care of that next time we order uniforms.

[Trojanman]

Dear Mean Green and fellow Sunbelt fans,

The NCAA's recent decision to ban Native American mascots and symbols has rocked the Trojan nation to its very core. Having just recently completed the changing of all of our logos and changing our building names, we truly feel for the institutions who are facing this huge financial and emotional burden. Troy University was more than happy to comply with the NCAA's request to drop the offensive term, "STATE" from our name. Much like the Denton, TX natives and the Memphis,TN natives before us, the citizens of Troy, Alabama were deeply offended by the word "STATE". The day the last "STATE" was taken off of the Adams Adminstration building at the main campus in Troy was a happy day indeed. The collective sighs of 17,000 proud men, women, and children were heard around the city of Troy as the "E" hit the ground for good. We all thought that only good times were ahead, now that we no longer had to cower under the shadow of the horrible "STATE". We all thought wrong...

Upon hearing of the NCAA's decision in favor of Native American protestors, other groups are now beginning to surface. Irishmen and women have left the bar to go to NCAA headquarters in Indianapolis to protest Notre Dame. PETA is horrified about the numerous animal mascots in use by colleges and universities. Pagan groups are irrate at the Blue Devil, Sun Devil, and Demon Deacon mascots. Christian groups are deeply offended by the mascots of the Providence Friars and San Fransico Dons. Even representatives from the Weather Channel have expressed their intentions to ban the deeply offensive natural disaster school mascots like the Hurricanes, Green Wave, Crimson Tide, and Tornadoes.

We sat in our homes in the small town of Troy. Doors locked and curtains closed, hoping we would somehow be immune to this latest dispaly of politcal correctness run a-muck. Unfortunately for us, we too would share in the misfortunes of the rest of the collegiate world. At approximately 10:15 this morning, our greatest fears were realized. A man dressed in full armour and a plumed helmet stood at the doorsteps of the Chancellor's house. He claimed he was a decendent of the Trojans of Troy and he demanded that we immediately change our nickname and mascot. Similar reports have been trickling in from Arkansas Little Rock, USC, and other teams with Trojan, Viking, and even Pirate mascots (AYE MATEY!). It seems there are small, but very passionate groups who are decedents of these now defunct nations and they are deeply offended by our mascots.

After hours of research, the fine minds of Troy University have came up with a solution to our mascot problem. After trying each and every mascot we could come up with, and finding something offensive to some minority either living or dead, we at Troy University have decided to do the only thing we can do. We have came up with a way, the only way, not to offend any minority anywhere. We have found the one group that can not be offended: the majority. From this point on, the Troy University Trojans will be known as The Troy Fighting White Crackers (thanks to TSUfaninCali for the official name). New logos and traditions are being developed as we speak. The Troy Fighting White Crackers will start a tradtion much like FSU's of Chief Osceola, in full Native American attire, riding his horse onto the field and planting a flaming spear at the 50 yard line. For the White Crackers, we will have our mascot Bubba (or Whitey we haven't decided yet) come out of a double-wide trailer in the north endzone. Bubba will be wearing a "wife-beater" t-shirt two sizes too small. He will ride on a camaflouge four-wheeler out to midfield. When he gets there, he will shotgun a Natural Light and then light a bottle-rocket on the big, white, saltine cracker logo. Other suggestions include tossing crackers after touchdowns, tailgating with our cars up on blocks, and putting the track back around the field for NASCAR events.

The Trojan... errr... Fighting White Cracker Nation expects other schools to follow suit soon and snatch up the Honkey, White Trash, "The Man", and "Middle of the Oreo Cookie" mascots.

Regards,

Troy

ps Do not think you are safe Mean Green fans! We have just received word that representatives from Seaseme Street and Crayola are on their way to Denton at this very moment!

Edited August 13, 2005 by Trojanman

[Baby Arm!]

I thought they were named after the Seminoles of Florida anyway? 

P.S. Post #1000!

←

Same tribe really. The Seminoles, Along with the Chereokee and other tribes in the Southeast were 'relocated' by a forced march to reservations in what was then Oklahoma Indian Territory. Its called the Trail of Tears. Look into it.

[MeanMag]

Nice Trojanman, the people who say that they are offended by this are the ones looking for either monetary compensation, or simply are not happy unless they are bitching about something. The same people who call them Indians anyways in a daily conversation.

Absolutely assenine

[ADLER]

I think MTSU should have to change its name too.  Blue Raiders is "hostile and abusive" to all the friendly pirates out there.

←

Middle Tennessee no longer uses the Raider image for their mascot, and the MTSU fans have conveniently forgotten on whom that image was based.

Instead, MTSU has decided upon Pegasis as their mascot. It is both a smbol from Greek mythology symbolizing hope and strength, and the name of a popular rural Tennessee activity which produced many of the MTSU fans.