Master Plan Recommendations

NTEagle08 · August 7, 2005

Haven't looked through all of it, but if anyone is interested in what future plans on for nearly everything on campus this includes it, over 100 slides long. Saw in the DRC that they University plans on presenting this on Tuesday at the Gateway Center.

Master Plan Final Draft

Info from DRC about the presentation

NTEagle08 · August 7, 2005

Also interesting points regarding athletics:

-35,000 seat football stadium at 35 million dollars

-timeline for stadium is 5 or more years away

-indoor football practice facility not required, but a site need to be indentified for a future 40 to 50 yd bubble

-Center court of the tennis complex when built will have capacity for 600

-Track Stadium capacity at 800

-no real time lines given for any of these facilities

Edited August 7, 2005 by NTEagle08

PlummMeanGreen · August 7, 2005

Also interesting points regarding athletics:
-35,000 seat football stadium at 35 million dollars
-timeline for stadium is 5 or more years away
-indoor football practice facility not required, but a site need to be indentified for a future 40 to 50 yd bubble
-Center court of the tennis complex when built will have capacity for 600
-Track Stadium capacity at 800
-no real time lines given for any of these facilities
←

First of all, absolutely nothing has changed as far as the timeline for our new football stadium. Fouts Field will be just fine as we wait for a new stadium because it has even become a bit more fan friendly with all its new ammenities compared to how stark cold a venue it was before Rick Villarreal came to town.

None of us are really privvy' as to which Heavy Hitter NT alums and/or NT friends our campus fundraisers are talking to and which one out of that handful is the most serious. NT fundrasiers would be insane to leak out such information as to who they are talking to with this being such a huge project and one so important to the future of our entire school.

I'm afraid NORTH TEXAS officials have waited too long to build a 35,000 seat football stadium for $35 million. Lamar Hunt just finished a 21,000 seat soccer stadium over in Frisco for $80 million. I think Pizza Hut is providing a little over $1 million annually to this project for the next 20 or so years from what I have heard.

Big Donor? We needed one from the first day we knew we would build a new stadium at Eagle Point Campus as well as we all know we need one now. We could be surprised (because how else would we describe our emotions) with an announcement tomorrow OR 5 years from tomorrow. We can all speculate (and we all do) but none of us have a clue as to who might really be on the front-burner as one whose large donation could move up the 5 year timetable for our new stadium at the new Mean Green Athletic Village. Personally, I have received much solace in seeing what we have standing on those 200 acres now and what is presently being built that will soon open. 2 years ago some of you said that would never happen and you know who you are.

Guess all this ultimately depends on what kind of fundraisers we have employed at UNT who can mix well, play golf well and sell the virtures of UNT with potential Big Donors exceptionally well or if we are lucky enough--have a fundraiser on campus who actually knew a potential Big Donor or 2 before they were even hired at NT.

This present group at UNT is letting a big opportunity slip by them (and some unnecessary years to wait in building our new stadium) by not hiring soon to be honored (again) by the Houston Touchdown Club one Mr. Hayden Fry to be an NT consultant just as we did ex Aggie Gene Stallings a few years ago. Hell, we hired an Aggie, anything wrong with hiring someone who actually worked for UNT and had about 4 of his kids graduate from UNT?

Why not hire someone (Fry) who knows the mega-wealthy Caruth family of Dallas, Texas, America or a Robert Moody of the Moody Foundation to come on board the NT payroll as a constultant so he could at least introduce these people to our present fundraising employees.

Is there something we're missing here as to why this probably hasn't even been discussed on campus by even our Board of Regents? Hopefully, because the Fry (and Blakelly) idea came from a college message board is not one of those reasons. It is my hope that pride and ego will not prevent us from getting a new football stadium in Denton and that because of some really petty and small reasons. >>>>>>>>>> BTW, from a most reliable source, did you know GoMeanGreen.com had well over 10 million hits in one particular month not that long ago?

BACK TO FRY: For over 10 years the former SMU Ad and head football coach at SMU (later 6 yrs at UNT) who knows many DFW Big Hitters not even tied to SMU but who gave to SMU in the past. Maybe they are not giving to SMU post Death Penalty as that hacked off many of such larger donors away coupled with the demise of the SWC? Folks, we're in the North Texas Metroplex of almost 6 million population (according to NTCOG) and not a rural area of some backwater college town.

It just doesn't make sense that we go back into our teacher's college cocoon mode of thinking when we really have a chance to elimate that modus operendi forever while at the same time leap our school a light year or 2 forward by building the one campus facility that the largest numbers of NT Exes will ever gather together at the same time. Duh? In essence, NT "MUST" leave in the past the "we can't do that at North Texas" kind of thinking behind. Zig Ziglar in his sales seminars or in one of his many books calls all that------"stinkin' thinkin'.

IN ALL FAIRNESS TO CAMPUS FUNDRAISERS: Much of what NT fundraisers will be allowed to raise for a new stadium depends on how much the NT Board of Regents allow Chancellor Lee Jackson to influence a Big Donor who would possibly give a big chunk of cash to our new football palace in Denton, but instead use his position, power & influence to sway such possible monies that could go to our eventual new football stadium to his present pet project and agenda, ie, building a new campus in his own hometown of Dallas, ie, the University of North Texas at Dallas.

Edited August 7, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

NTEagle08 · August 7, 2005

IN ALL FAIRNESS TO CAMPUS FUNDRAISERS: Much of what NT fundraisers will be allowed to raise for a new stadium depends on how much the NT Board of Regents allow Chancellor Lee Jackson to influence a Big Donor who would possibly give a big chunk of cash to our new football palace in Denton, but instead use his position, power & influence to sway such possible monies that could go to our eventual new football stadium to his present pet project and agenda, ie, building a new campus in his own hometown of Dallas, ie, the University of North Texas at Dallas.
←

In all honestly, why is it believed on some that Lee Jackson would siphon money that would go to a football stadium to UNT-Dallas. Funding from UNT-Dallas will come through UNT-Dallas student referendums and through tuition bonds through the state. Granted they will need to build up a scholarship and endowment fund, but I don't think people are going to be directed from stadium funding to scholarship and endowment funds.

Also this time line does fit in to what I think will happen. I don't see giant multi-million dollar checks falling out of the sky anytime in the near future. An individual or corporation is only going to donate a huge chunk of money if they feel it's a good investment. And right now they see a 4 time conference championship team that can't fill a little more than half their stadium. I'm not impossing my opinion on this, I'm just saying what someone on the outside sees.

Edited August 7, 2005 by NTEagle08

PlummMeanGreen · August 7, 2005

In all honestly, why is it believed on some that Lee Jackson would siphon money that would go to a football stadium to UNT-Dallas. Funding from UNT-Dallas will come through UNT-Dallas student referendums and through tuition bonds through the state. Granted they will need to build up a scholarship and endowment fund, but I don't think people are going to be directed from stadium funding to scholarship and endowment funds.
Also this time line does fit in to what I think will happen. I don't see giant multi-million dollar checks falling out of the sky anytime in the near future. An individual or corporation is only going to donate a huge chunk of money if they feel it's a good investment. And right now they see a 4 time conference championship team that can't fill a little more than half their stadium. I'm not impossing my opinion on this, I'm just saying what someone on the outside sees.
←

Hey, we are just all expessing our .02 here as we always do.

BUT.....such thinking may even suggest that NT should have never built the Super Pit and just stayed in the Men's Gym with its varsity basketball program and we didn't fill that ancient venue each basketball game.

The Men's Gym is still (amazingly) standing, so why didn't we just do the typical NTSTC thing and merely stay in it for a few more decades and watch the NCAA Division 1 parade pass us by completely? We don't build this new stadium in due time, not only will NCAA D1-A pass us by but about 3 or 4 schools in the Sun Belt will do the same because of their "whole package" of football related venues with their stadiums as the icing on the cake.

So many of our NT alums (not saying you are one of them, NTEagle08) are like the Stepford Wives and are just tunnel-visioned or catatonic tranced to think this way when we want to progress certain areas of our school, specifically athletics. For many of us, that new football stadium will be more than just concret and steele out at Eagle Point Campus, but rather a very big symbol of what we're finally leaving behind in Denton, Texas, mostly an edifice that creates the wrong perception about our school. Those of us NT alums who have worked in DFW the last few decades could all collaberate on a book on the perception subject.

I think the reason that there is a new football stadium in our plans is that many of our present NT leaders (start with Norval Pohl and Bobby Ray) somewhat feel the same toward Fouts as the Jitter Nolen group did toward the Men's Gym. It was just time to upgrade and attendance had absolutely nothing to do with any of that for either the construction of the Super Pit or our eventual new football stadium.. Lamar Hunt got his soccer team out of the cavernous Cotton Bowl stadium. Why didn't he stay there because it would have been cheaper and he was not filling that venue at Fair Park?

Chancellor Lee Jackson of Dallas, Texas, was given the Chancellor's job with a charge of building the campus of UNT-Dallas toward the top of his priority list. Also, with ALL the resources of the UNT System (he offices in Denton BTW) at his disposal including the "A" list of prime donors. Many from that list that NT Athletics played a big part in keeping interested and involved in their alma mater, too.

Edited August 7, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

mhow2 · August 7, 2005

just a quick funderaiser idea

If new 35000 seat stadium cost $35 mill, that means each seat cost $1000. So we go out and find people that would be willing to to donate $1000. I think we could easily find 35000 people.

shaft · August 7, 2005

The new stadium will mostly likely be financed by the student building fee that is currently dedicated to the new health center, not big donors. It will be an ez campaign to push through the student gov/body, since it doesn't require increasing fees just keeping a fee in place that an incomming generation of students doesn't know is going to expire.

NTEagle08 · August 7, 2005

Hey, we are just all expessing our .02 here as we always do.
BUT.....such thinking may even suggest that NT should have never built the Super Pit and just stayed in the Men's Gym with its varsity basketball program and we didn't fill that ancient venue each basketball game.
The Men's Gym is still (amazingly) standing, so why didn't we just do the typical NTSTC thing and merely stay in it for a few more decades and watch the NCAA Division 1 parade pass us by completely? We don't build this new stadium in due time, not only will NCAA D1-A pass us by but about 3 or 4 schools in the Sun Belt will do the same because of their "whole package" of football related venues with their stadiums as the icing on the cake.
So many of our NT alums (not saying you are one of them, NTEagle08) are like the Stepford Wives and are just tunnel-visioned or catatonic tranced to think this way when we want to progress certain areas of our school, specifically athletics. For many of us, that new football stadium will be more than just concret and steele out at Eagle Point Campus, but rather a very big symbol of what we're finally leaving behind in Denton, Texas, mostly an edifice that creates the wrong perception about our school. Those of us NT alums who have worked in DFW the last few decades could all collaberate on a book on the perception subject.
I think the reason that there is a new football stadium in our plans is that many of our present NT leaders (start with Norval Pohl and Bobby Ray) somewhat feel the same toward Fouts as the Jitter Nolen group did toward the Men's Gym. It was just time to upgrade and attendance had absolutely nothing to do with any of that for either the construction of the Super Pit or our eventual new football stadium.. Lamar Hunt got his soccer team out of the cavernous Cotton Bowl stadium. Why didn't he stay there because it would have been cheaper and he was not filling that venue at Fair Park?
Chancellor Lee Jackson of Dallas, Texas, was given the Chancellor's job with a charge of building the campus of UNT-Dallas toward the top of his priority list. Also, with ALL the resources of the UNT System (he offices in Denton BTW) at his disposal including the "A" list of prime donors. Many from that list that NT Athletics played a big part in keeping interested and involved in their alma mater, too.
←

By no means am I saying that a new football stadium isn't needed. I am fully behind getting a new stadium, in that I know it's just one of the many things that is needed for this athletic department to move forward. Problem is right now with the football team is perception.

I hope that I am wrong, but more than likely we don't get a good perception with people who would have deep pockets to fund part of a stadium. When you see a team that is having problems meeting the bare minimum of NCAA req. attendence numbers, it doesn't send a good message to potential donors. It just proves to them that why should they donate a serious amount of money, when the athletic department isn't fully devoted to getting people in the stands. And I think most will agree that the athletic dept. could be doing alot more to get more people in the stands. When you have a large chunk of money that you are wanting to donate, I can guarantee that you are going to want to see a return on the investment. We aren't at the level of say a UT or OU, where a family or individual is going to just donate a large amount of money for the heck of it.

And also I can see where you and others are going to the change in perception with the University, but it should be the main focus point. I think if you want to change perceptions of the University, academics is the first route to take. If you build and continue to add programs that will be prestige to your school, you will gain prestige in doing so.

Also with the Frisco Soccer stadium, I think they are making a big mistake in moving that team to Frisco, and pretty much alienating their current fan base. Just look how horribly the Southlake experiment went a few years ago. But this a North Texas football board, and I won't get into that.

NTEagle08 · August 7, 2005

The new stadium will mostly likely be financed by the student building fee that is currently dedicated to the new health center, not big donors. It will be an ez campaign to push through the student gov/body, since it doesn't require increasing fees just keeping a fee in place that an incomming generation of students doesn't know is going to expire.
←

Everywhere that I have read is that the $19 fee increase that was voted on last fall for the new wellness center is going towards building, equipping, and operating the new wellness center. It will oviously cost more to staff the new building. So no, they can't siphon funds from the wellness center to football stadium construction.

ntmeangreen11 · August 7, 2005

If we had 35,000 people donate 1000 for one seat a peice w/ a guarantee of having that seat of their choice for 3 years,giving us announced attendance of 35,000,and the money to build it! Genuis! Other 15,000 for general admission.

stebo · August 7, 2005

Everywhere that I have read is that the $19 fee increase that was voted on last fall for the new wellness center is going towards building, equipping, and operating the new wellness center. It will oviously cost more to staff the new building. So no, they can't siphon funds from the wellness center to football stadium construction.
←

I think what he was trying to say is that the fee mentioned has an expiration date of like 2011. It really wouldn't turn too many heads to just continue to charge that fee as a "facilities improvement fee" and then bond out the stadium with those future funds through a BOR loan. Problem that I see is that under Pohl, that might have been slipped through. Who knows which jackass Lee Jackson will pressure the Board to push through for the new Prez. Also, our "athletic friendly" Board of Regents will all be expiring their terms next summer. About the time that Pohl's contract expires. Coincidence? I think not. I think Pohl knows the direction that this whole mess is going with Lee Jackson at the helm. We have three magical pieces to our puzzle of success - Pohl, RV, and the BOR. We are losing Pohl, we lose the BOR (if they are not replaced with a similarly enthusiastic pro-athletic group), and we all know that RV is trying to hold his breath on as much of this as possible - but we also know that he has applied for about 3 or 4 lateral move jobs in the last 2 years. I think that these guys know that they had one shot at it and it is coming to a close. We need a really good season. I don't see us ever reverting BACK; but I want us to continue to rumble forward as we have been and we have to start assembling a new puzzle for that to happen. The old (and current one) will be gone by next summer.

DeepGreen · August 7, 2005

I think what he was trying to say is that the fee mentioned has an expiration date of like 2011. It really wouldn't turn too many heads to just continue to charge that fee as a "facilities improvement fee" and then bond out the stadium with those future funds through a BOR loan. Problem that I see is that under Pohl, that might have been slipped through. Who knows which jackass Lee Jackson will pressure the Board to push through for the new Prez. Also, our "athletic friendly" Board of Regents will all be expiring their terms next summer. About the time that Pohl's contract expires. Coincidence? I think not. I think Pohl knows the direction that this whole mess is going with Lee Jackson at the helm. We have three magical pieces to our puzzle of success - Pohl, RV, and the BOR. We are losing Pohl, we lose the BOR (if they are not replaced with a similarly enthusiastic pro-athletic group), and we all know that RV is trying to hold his breath on as much of this as possible - but we also know that he has applied for about 3 or 4 lateral move jobs in the last 2 years. I think that these guys know that they had one shot at it and it is coming to a close. We need a really good season. I don't see us ever reverting BACK; but I want us to continue to rumble forward as we have been and we have to start assembling a new puzzle for that to happen. The old (and current one) will be gone by next summer.
←

Thanks Stebo. That's the most depressing post I've read in a long time. All of the pro-athletics movers and shakers that have gotten us this far over the past 4 years will be gone within a year or two. Jackson will show his "real" colors when these good people are replaced.

stebo · August 7, 2005

Thanks Stebo. That's the most depressing post I've read in a long time. All of the pro-athletics movers and shakers that have gotten us this far over the past 4 years will be gone within a year or two. Jackson will show his "real" colors when these good people are replaced.
←

Please tear it down and tell me where I am wrong... I am hoping that I am being too melodramatic about it all - but I just see a storm on the horizon and can't help but comment on it. It all started when LJ flexed his muscle with Logo-gate and continued to unfurl with Pohl's announcement. We haven't even begun to pay back the loan made by the BOR for the Athletic Center build-out and they went and loaned us another $1 million bucks or so for the new turf - a pro-athletics BOR is the key to us moving forward... and with most of them leaving after next summer - the future scares this Mean Greener. The thought of having another Hurley or another BOR like the one from the 90's (when we half-assed our way back to IA) scares the crap out of me.

ntmeangreen11 · August 7, 2005

>>>>>If we had 35,000 people donate 1000 for one seat a peice w/ a guarantee of having that seat of their choice for 3 years,giving us announced attendance of 35,000,and the money to build it! Genuis! Other 15,000 for general admission.<<<<<

Well,maybe not genuis,because then we couldn't make money,but we're on to something here!

NCMeanGreen · August 7, 2005

just a quick funderaiser idea
If new 35000 seat stadium cost $35 mill, that means each seat cost $1000. So we go out and find people that would be willing to to donate $1000. I think we could easily find 35000 people.
←

Are you crazy? I hope you were just trying to be funny...

We cannot even consistently get 20K into the stands each Saturday...and you think 35K are going to donate $1000 to the school????????????

Dreeaammmm...Dream..Dream..Dream..Dreeaammmm...

ntmeangreen11 · August 7, 2005

Are you crazy? I hope you were just trying to be funny...
We cannot even consistently get 20K into the stands each Saturday...and you think 35K are going to donate $1000 to the school????????????
Dreeaammmm...Dream..Dream..Dream..Dreeaammmm...
←

If we can't get 1/3 of our alums(I believe there are 100,000) to donate 1000 to the university for athletics,we're in a sad shape...

NTEagle08 · August 7, 2005

If we can't get 1/3 of our alums(I believe there are 100,000) to donate 1000 to the university for athletics,we're in a sad shape...
←

well no offense, if we can't get more than 1/10 of them to come to a game on a given saturday then what would lead 1/3 of the alums to donate one thousand dollars to the program.

greenminer · August 7, 2005

If we can't get 1/3 of our alums(I believe there are 100,000) to donate 1000 to the university for athletics,we're in a sad shape...
←

HUH? How many friends did you have at UNT?

I can think of 40 people I knew at UNT that wouldn't give a flip about donating that much money...not even in disbursements. And, no, I don't think that's a sad ratio.

There's no way around it: you need that one BIG donor to step forward. You could probably chip off a few bucks by getting a good ratio to throw in a few dollars each, but not a THOUSAND.

Think back to your UNT days: when you were walking down the hall would you envision that every third person would give 1000 dollars 5+ years post-graduation?

Edited August 7, 2005 by greenminer

DeepGreen · August 7, 2005

Please tear it down and tell me where I am wrong... I am hoping that I am being too melodramatic about it all - but I just see a storm on the horizon and can't help but comment on it. It all started when LJ flexed his muscle with Logo-gate and continued to unfurl with Pohl's announcement. We haven't even begun to pay back the loan made by the BOR for the Athletic Center build-out and they went and loaned us another $1 million bucks or so for the new turf - a pro-athletics BOR is the key to us moving forward... and with most of them leaving after next summer - the future scares this Mean Greener. The thought of having another Hurley or another BOR like the one from the 90's (when we half-assed our way back to IA) scares the crap out of me.
←

That's the problem, Stebo, you're not wrong! I can't disagree with you because it's exactly how I see it. I hope we're both wrong, but I see a "bad moon arising", as the song goes.

ntmeangreen11 · August 7, 2005

HUH? How many friends did you have at UNT?
I can think of 40 people I knew at UNT that wouldn't give a flip about donating that much money...not even in disbursements. And, no, I don't think that's a sad ratio.
There's no way around it: you need that one BIG donor to step forward. You could probably chip off a few bucks by getting a good ratio to throw in a few dollars each, but not a THOUSAND.
Think back to your UNT days: when you were walking down the hall would you envision that every third person would give 1000 dollars 5+ years post-graduation?
←

I'm 14,a sophmore in high school.

greenminer · August 7, 2005

I'm 14,a sophmore in high school.
←

Good to have you as a UNT fan. Don't take my perception as a knock on UNT though: I think any athletic director in the country, including ones in Austin, Ann Arbor, Tallahassee, etc would DREAM to have a 1/3 ratio that gives 1000 dollars.

jjpfootball · August 7, 2005

Florida State get about $30,000,000 per year..(It may be Florida)

PlummMeanGreen · August 7, 2005

If we can't get 1/3 of our alums(I believe there are 100,000) to donate 1000 to the university for athletics,we're in a sad shape...
←

The question some of us might ask is do we have 1/3 of those registered with GoMeanGreen.com giving to the chief fundraising arm of NT Athletics, ie, the Mean Green Club?

So then the journey of 1,000 miles begins with the first step? Well, at NT the first step might mean folks like those of us on this message board (who may be NT's most enthusiastic) all becoming financial investors into NT Athletics because God Almighty Himself knows most of us have given NT Athletics enough free advice and ideas over the years.

.........................................................................................................

The new stadium is on the drawing board, folks, but lets all remind ourselves as to what wasn't on the drawing boards 4 years ago.

(1) How about starting with the moving of most athletic operations to the new 200 acre Mean Green Athletic Village on land between those 2 interstates?

(2) How about a state-of-the-industry and now completed Athletic Center?

(3) How about an ultra-modern Victory Hall dormitory out at the MG Athletic Village complex?

(4)) How about a Wimbleton-type tennis complex now under construction that will allow NORTH TEXAS to finally become a player in NCAA Division 1 tennis?

(5) How about all the Liberty Christian School land and specifically all of its athletic venues most of which are now being modernized?

.........................................................................................................

I feel we will all be surprised with a new stadium sooner than later (and I realize others of you don't) but a big motivator now for the NT Administration, the NT Board of Regents and NT fundraisers is because NORTH TEXAS has too much perception-wise to lose (some call it losing face) if we don't attach a 35-40,000 seat stadium to our present south end zone facility. This Athletic Center which already has a veranda for approximately 1,000 MG Club donors facing northward is for allowing our largeest donors to watch a Mean Green football game at a brand spanking new football stadium. I don't think NT leaders had the veranda put on the Athletic Center's blueprints so NT donors could look out at the Denia Neighborhood duck pond.

So lets not panic about any of this until we see warheads coming straight at us, fellow NT'ers. I don't think an NT Board of Regents that is chaired by NT grad Bobby Ray (who will probably be asked by the Governor of Texas to serve in that position again) are going to allow anyone they hire in the NT administration to start pressing buttons that would arm and then aim any of those warheads at NT's Department of Athletics, either.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

<>*<> Harry/Cerebus, I think it would be great if you guys would share with the Mean Green Nation just how many bytes GoMeanGreen.com receives periodically. It would open a few eyes on campus and beyond and that's a guarantee.

GMG!

Edited August 8, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

UNTFan23 · August 7, 2005

At this point in the game, I'd like to see if it's possible to get 5000 fans to donate $1000 (or more). At the very least, set up some sort of incentive plan where season tickets priority is based off of level of giving for the new stadium.

mhow2 · August 7, 2005

just a quick funderaiser idea
If new 35000 seat stadium cost $35 mill, that means each seat cost $1000. So we go out and find people that would be willing to to donate $1000. I think we could easily find 35000 people.
←

The basic gest of what I was getting at is that maybe a way to raise some needed money is to do this instead of looking for that one big donor. I personally know about 20 to 30 people that would donate $1000. Plus you will have some small to midsize companies that would most likely donate a larger amount. Then with this tally you go to the big donor.

Also it would most likely take 2 to 3 years to build the stadium so that $1000 pledge would only cost you $500 dollars or less a year.

Edited August 8, 2005 by mhow2