Academic woes hit NT football

[twodogs]

I totally agree with all of you that it is definately the players responsiblity to maintain a passing grade and in no way hold the school or the coaching staff responsible for the few that can't or won't get thier priorities straight. The school provides all of the athletes with plenty of resources to insure thier success but the bottom line is you have to use those resources and more importantly you have to SHOW UP for class!

With that being said, I just didn't want all of the athletes grouped by blanket statements about how they are all a bunch of lazy, stupid slackers! I think the majority take school seriously and understand that playing ball at North Texas will likely be the end of their athletic careers. They need the degree that the school is paying for and are willing to take advantage of the opportunity provided them.

[Green92]

If the student had the proper upbringing, values, and work ethic this wouldn't have happened. It's not the systems fault. The system doesn't take the tests, the player does. It's nobody's fault but his own.

I agree with this. Even the BCS schools with all the money lose players to academics each year. Athletes have so many advantages. It's really a shame that one would just fail out. It has to be just not showing up.

[good_ken]

With that being said, I just didn't want all of the athletes grouped by blanket statements about how they are all a bunch of lazy, stupid slackers! I think the majority take school seriously and understand that playing ball at North Texas will likely be the end of their athletic careers. They need the degree that the school is paying for and are willing to take advantage of the opportunity provided them.

I don't think we are. I think most of us are just pissed that one of the academic casulites happened to be the quarterback who got the majority of the spring snaps; and was the penciled-in starter for LSU.

I think most folks have a pretty good grip on the academic success other athletes have.

[DeepGreen]

Just as an FYI, Nebraska has enough student assistants(tudors) on the athletic department staff, that if the player does not feel like attending class, they merely call the AD and a SA is sent to the athlete's class to take notes for him/her. Yep, my future son-in-law's brother is a starting WR for Nebraska. Missing class is not a problem for him.

[UNTLifer]

Just as an FYI, Nebraska has enough student assistants(tudors) on the athletic department staff, that if the player does not feel like attending class, they merely call the AD and a SA is sent to the athlete's class to take notes for him/her.  Yep, my future son-in-law's brother is a starting WR for Nebraska.  Missing class is not a problem for him.

Which is wrong, as is the OU example above. This is proof that some schools athletic budgets are too big when they can afford to pay someone to either follow the athletes around making sure they go to class, or someone to go and take notes in the class. What is this teaching the STUDENT athlete? Nothing.

[DeepGreen]

You're absolutely correct. When I heard what was going on at Nebraska I nearly fell out of my chair. Some of these athletes have no academic responsibility whatsoever. Truly sad.

[UNTLifer]

Going back to two dogs comment, I applaud our student athletes. It is sad when a few, five counting the Track and Field athlete, fail and people starting pointing the finger at the AD. Scott Hall, for one, was an excellent student that spoke at the commencement exercises. Our swimming and diving team is Academic All America, not a few, but the entire team. What about Jonas Buckles? Came here as a Prop 48 and graduated on time earning an extra year of eligibility.

The most disappointing and amazing thing in all of this to me is Byerly. Here's a kid that has the starting QB job in hand at a D1 school, something many kids dream about. What does he do? Doesn't keep up in school. The result? Meagher will probably be our starter, and if he stays healthy, will be for the next four years. Byerly? Ends up at some other position, if he gets his grades in shape.

[Glad To Be Green]

Not a shot back but rather an informational message.

We have good people in the academic center. It is easy to point the finger there, but the numbers say otherwise. Graduation rates are up to 60 % and our APR was the highest for public institutions in the state. We had eight teams with a 2.8 or better this past semester and only 1 student outside of football is not eligible for next year. It is not the job of anyone to sit in class with a student-athlete and make sure he goes to school. That is a responsibility of that young man or woman. We do check classes but this is not a baby sitting service. Plenty of football players are doing great and handling that responsibility.

There are any number of proposed cures including sitting in class. At Middle Tennessee they recently adopted a department-wide policy that equates missed classes with missed playing time. East Carolina has a similar program. Others teams use different approaches to promote and enforce class attendance. We have confidence that our coaches can handle their teams and currently allow them to determine their own processes, which they have done with much success in the last four years. I have consistently heard Coach Dickey as well as all of our other head coaches demand that players meet their responsibility of going to class, making the grade and getting a degree. Many student-athletes heed the words, but there is a small minority that never will.

Our kids today have better facilities, more computers, more summer school and 5th year funding, and a new academic center set to open in August. People in the academic department can only do so much and I think they do a great job. The proof is in the total numbers and not just this isolated case of 5 athletes. If more money and more people were the cure, then our the Big 12 friends would have better numbers than ours.

This is a case of a small group of individuals provided with opportunities failing to take advantage of the benefits available. They have been given plenty of attention, encouragement and even prodding from the academic center to take care of business. We may be forced to change the system in the future but for now we will entrust our coaches to solve the challenges within their teams. Let's hope that these young people, as well as others, learn from this situation. They hurt not only themselves, but their teammates, their coaches and everyone who love Mean Green Athletics.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[SilverEagle]

Jackson ran a 15 and out, but Cox left the him and went 20 and out. When the ball went over Jackson's head, Cox had the only real play on it. We were joking on the sideline that Cox knew the ball wouldnt be where Jackson was.

...and yet, there was a walk-on named Scott Wissel who was working his ass off making excellent decisions, putting the ball where it needed to be, and often showing a very good touch with his throws. He also played with confidence, didn't get rattled and just generally turned the heads of just about every fan who watched spring practice. Yet, he wasn't invited back this fall. So what was the problem with him? He was generously listed as 5'11" on the program.

I get real tired of people salavating over a players size....especially at QB. As Dandy Don used to say "potential just means you ain't done it yet". Ieans has been hanging around for two years and people have been looking at his "potential"...which has yet to realized. Meanwhile, a hard working walk-on was (IMHO) "getting it done" and not being invited back.

And as to Ieans "potential" as a "possession receiver". If he HAD ANY ability as a receiver, they would have put him out there long ago.

[Greeneagle87]

There was a QB in the spring game who I had no idea who he was,he was the best looking one out there though,and he was white

It might have been the guy silver is talking about,cuz he isnt too tall.

[Guest JohnDenver]

You probably are talking about Scott Wissle. A walk on from Denton. Didn't look like he made the squad ...

[NT80]

...and yet, there was a walk-on named Scott Wissel who was working his ass off making excellent decisions, putting the ball where it needed to be, and often showing a very good touch with his throws. He also played with confidence, didn't get rattled and just generally turned the heads of just about every fan who watched spring practice. Yet, he wasn't invited back this fall. So what was the problem with him? He was generously listed as 5'11" on the program.

I get real tired of people salavating over a players size....especially at QB. As Dandy Don used to say "potential just means you ain't done it yet". Ieans has been hanging around for two years and people have been looking at his "potential"...which has yet to realized. Meanwhile, a hard working walk-on was (IMHO) "getting it done" and not being invited back.

And as to Ieans "potential" as a "possession receiver". If he HAD ANY ability as a receiver, they would have put him out there long ago.

Wissel looked impressive in that first scrimmage I saw him throw. I didn't see a better passer out there that day (Meager was injured and I haven't seen him play yet). I don't understand why Wissel was let go, if he was.

Edited July 22, 2005 by NT80

[NT80]

Not a shot back but rather an informational message.

We have good people in the academic center. It is easy to point the finger there, but the numbers say otherwise. Graduation rates are up to 60 % and our APR was the highest for public institutions in the state. We had eight teams with a 2.8 or better this past semester and only 1 student outside of football is not eligible for next year. It is not the job of anyone to sit in class with a student-athlete and make sure he goes to school. That is a responsibility of that young man or woman. We do check classes but this is not a baby sitting service. Plenty of football players are doing great and handling that responsibility.

There are any number of proposed cures including sitting in class. At Middle Tennessee they recently adopted a department-wide policy that equates missed classes with missed playing time. East Carolina has a similar program. Others teams use different approaches to promote and enforce class attendance. We have confidence that our coaches can handle their teams and currently allow them to determine their own processes, which they have done with much success in the last four years. I have consistently heard Coach Dickey as well as all of our other head coaches demand that players meet their responsibility of going to class, making the grade and getting a degree. Many student-athletes heed the words, but there is a small minority that never will.

Our kids today have better facilities, more computers, more summer school and 5th year funding, and a new academic center set to open in August. People in the academic department can only do so much and I think they do a great job. The proof is in the total numbers and not just this isolated case of 5 athletes. If more money and more people were the cure, then our the Big 12 friends would have better numbers than ours.

This is a case of a small group of individuals provided with opportunities failing to take advantage of the benefits available. They have been given plenty of attention, encouragement and even prodding from the academic center to take care of business. We may be forced to change the system in the future but for now we will entrust our coaches to solve the challenges within their teams. Let's hope that these young people, as well as others, learn from this situation. They hurt not only themselves, but their teammates, their coaches and everyone who love Mean Green Athletics.

GO MEAN GREEN!

Thanks for the info Rick. It's frustrating to the fans when the program loses good players to grades ( and I applaude the rising GPA and graduation rates overall!). I don't understand some players not taking advantage of the academic help and maintaining all their opportunities, such a waste.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Not a shot back but rather an informational message.

We have good people in the academic center. It is easy to point the finger there, but the numbers say otherwise. Graduation rates are up to 60 % and our APR was the highest for public institutions in the state. We had eight teams with a 2.8 or better this past semester and only 1 student outside of football is not eligible for next year. It is not the job of anyone to sit in class with a student-athlete and make sure he goes to school. That is a responsibility of that young man or woman. We do check classes but this is not a baby sitting service. Plenty of football players are doing great and handling that responsibility.

There are any number of proposed cures including sitting in class. At Middle Tennessee they recently adopted a department-wide policy that equates missed classes with missed playing time. East Carolina has a similar program. Others teams use different approaches to promote and enforce class attendance. We have confidence that our coaches can handle their teams and currently allow them to determine their own processes, which they have done with much success in the last four years. I have consistently heard Coach Dickey as well as all of our other head coaches demand that players meet their responsibility of going to class, making the grade and getting a degree. Many student-athletes heed the words, but there is a small minority that never will.

Our kids today have better facilities, more computers, more summer school and 5th year funding, and a new academic center set to open in August. People in the academic department can only do so much and I think they do a great job. The proof is in the total numbers and not just this isolated case of 5 athletes. If more money and more people were the cure, then our the Big 12 friends would have better numbers than ours.

This is a case of a small group of individuals provided with opportunities failing to take advantage of the benefits available. They have been given plenty of attention, encouragement and even prodding from the academic center to take care of business. We may be forced to change the system in the future but for now we will entrust our coaches to solve the challenges within their teams. Let's hope that these young people, as well as others, learn from this situation. They hurt not only themselves, but their teammates, their coaches and everyone who love Mean Green Athletics.

GO MEAN GREEN!

For you newbies or visitors to GMG.com, "Glad to be Green" is the Director of Athletics at the University of North Texas, one Mr. Rick Villarreal.

Like Reagan once stared into a TV camera and asked Americans this question in a presidential debate: "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" (As one who voted for Carter the first time I would have to admit that we were not better off).

Well, in Mean Green Country, we know we are better off than we were 4-5 years ago which was about the time our AD started rolling up his sleeves in Mean Green Country. This 1976 NT grad offers a Texas-sized----Thank You, Rick V, and I know many others on this forum feel as strongly and will state such on this forum or in a personal email to you.

Anyone else needing further proof of this progress only has to look out between those 2 interstates at the 200 acres of an olympic-type village at our Eagle Point Campus. Just look out and see facilities already completed and others rising up on the rolling Texas prairie like the Phoenix off the desert sands with every bit of this under the watch of University of North Texas Athletic Director Rick Villarreal.

GMG!

Edited July 22, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[3XNTGRAD]

Graduation rates are up to 60 % and our APR was the highest for public institutions in the state.

Thought I might also add that this graduation rate is significantly higher than the student body as a whole.

[FirefightnRick]

I'm not sure the specifics on Mitch Maher, possibly someone here can include his academic highlights. But including him, two of our previous 3 all time great QB's, Scott Davis '87-'90 and Scott Hall '00-'04 played their senior season while attending grad school, and Hall was an honor student/deans list member nearly every semester he attended. He persued a masters in engineering I believe.

This is the standard set by our athletic department and the type of kids our coaches have recruited over the years.

With that said, I attended a select little league tournament in Burleson last night and guess who's assistant high school coach I ran into? Incoming Mean Green QB Steve Warren. I asked him his oppinion on Steve and he said right off, "he's real fast!". He ran a 10.78 in the 100 meters this past spring and was an all around athlete. He's a leader, a hard worker and running the ball was his strength but he has a strong arm too. But I outright asked him what kind of grades he made and the coach laughed because he knew why I was asking. He said we shouldn't have to worry. That was all I needed to hear.

Rick

Edited July 22, 2005 by FirefightnRick

[DeepGreen]

Ths US Army took the flunkies and sent them to Nam.

And the US Army took those of us who just graduated from good ole NTSU too. <_< Sumbitchin' Nam. <_<

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

And the US Army took those of us who just graduated from good ole NTSU too. <_< Sumbitchin' Nam. <_<

----I managed to avoid "the trip". I took my physical at age 24 (during the Tet offensive) and only one of the 12-14 guys of my age passed the physical (he was 22 and in construction) meanwhile all of the 18-19 years that took it that day passed. That era was so ridiculous, it was obvious they didn't really want us that were older and more educated (and harder to push around). I have later read the average recruit in Nam was 19.5...... in WWII the average recruit was 26. The USA sent as bunch of kids, not men as in other wars. I respect those who went just no respect for those who sent them, especially McNamara. Those whiz-kid, Ivy league advisors (first appointed by JFK) were misinforming LBJ left and right --especially about the events in the Bay of Tomkin.

---About the only good thing it accomplished was a lot of guys in my age that may not have finished college got degrees because no one wanted to be draft-bait.

Edited July 22, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[DeepGreen]

----I managed to avoid "the trip". I took my physical at age 24 (during the Tet offensive) and only one of the 12-14 guys of my age passed the physical (he was 22 and in construction) meanwhile all of the 18-19 years that took it that day passed. That era was so ridiculous, it was obvious they didn't really want us that were older and more educated (and harder to push around). I have later read the average recruit in Nam was 19.5...... in WWII the average recruit was 26. The USA sent as bunch of kids, not men as in other wars. I respect those who went just no respect for those who sent them, especially McNamara. Those whiz-kid, Ivy league advisors (first appointed by JFK) were misinforming LBJ left and right --especially about the events in the Bay of Tomkin.

---About the only good thing it accomplished was a lot of guys in my age that may not have finished college got degrees because no one wanted to be draft-bait.

Well, I certainly put my NT Marketing Degree to good use in the U.S. Army - I performed firing data for 105mm howitzers!!! Yes, Viet Nam was a joke, and I can tell you stories to prove it. All of the draftees like me wanted to do was survive, serve our year(or more) and get the hell out of there.

[MeanGreen61]

Well, I certainly put my NT Marketing Degree to good use in the U.S. Army - I performed firing data for 105mm howitzers!!!  

So you specialized in long distance "hard sell".

[SilverEagle]

Well, I certainly put my NT Marketing Degree to good use in the U.S. Army - I performed firing data for 105mm howitzers!!!   Yes, Viet Nam was a joke, and I can tell you stories to prove it.  All of the draftees like me wanted to do was survive, serve our year(or more) and get the hell out of there.

Deep, a friend of mine was in artillery, but he was in the Marines. From that era they used the term "clicks" as a unit of measuring distance. But I forgot how much distance it represented. I believe that the term came from the artillery. Can you confirm this?

BTW, while I was at NT I did not apply for a deferrment. I was never even called for a physical.

[SUMG]

I'm glad the Viet Nam War was over by the time I got to college.

If it hadn't have been, I would be posting right now on the message board for The University of Winnipeg Fightin' Moose Killers.

GMK

[Guest JohnDenver]

Deep, a friend of mine was in artillery, but he was in the Marines. From that era they used the term "clicks" as a unit of measuring distance. But I forgot how much distance it represented. I believe that the term came from the artillery. Can you confirm this?

BTW, while I was at NT I did not apply for a deferrment. I was never even called for a physical.

A Click ?

by Steve on 05/13/03 at 19:59:16

During coverage of the war, I heard some references to a "click". As in "The enemy was about 2 clicks away"

What is the distance of a "click" and where did the term originate ? My only guess is it comes from the clicks of a rifle scope in terms of Minute of Angle and all that stuff. Just curious.

Steve

Re: A Click ?

by Daver on 05/14/03 at 01:20:35

Click is a slang for kilometer.

I lived in Saudi Arabia in the 80's and heard the term used there frequently, ironically by American expatriate workers.

Possibley they picked it up from European expatriate workers, or maybe it is an oilpatch term.

Another possibility would be from racing circles, lots of people there were into gokarts and dirtbikes.

Re: A Click ?

by Robert Fogt on 05/14/03 at 03:51:17

Yes that is correct. I have both click, and alternate spelling klick on the length/distance conversion page.

I am certain it started in the military, but unsure of exactly how.

My theory is that those big ancient military guns were adjusted by turning knobs or wheels. 1 turn on the knob was a "click" which moved the sights a kilometer.

I see the term on old marine sniper sites, so it may also have something to do with the marines snipers.

Re: A Click ?

by Steve on 05/14/03 at 12:33:33

My first though was the snipers and high power rifle scopes as well. They do use the terms clicks but the reference is to the "click" of the elevation/windage dial on the scope which is in MOA/inches and changed for yards/meters. A Kilometer is a bit far for a sniper so it probably does not apply

My Father is an old (he says young) military man so he might have some insight on older artillery weapons and field usage

Steve

Re: A Click ?

by kim on 08/08/03 at 22:12:36

In Canada, we call them "klicks". It's a slang term. Like how "5 bucks" is 5 dollars.

Re: A Click ?

by John C Studdard on 08/13/03 at 21:09:15

A "click" is an Americanized shortening of kilometer.

[SilverEagle]

A Click ?

by Steve on 05/13/03 at 19:59:16

During coverage of the war, I heard some references to a "click". As in "The enemy was about 2 clicks away"

What is the distance of a "click" and where did the term originate ? My only guess is it comes from the clicks of a rifle scope in terms of Minute of Angle and all that stuff. Just curious.

Steve

Re: A Click ?

by Daver on 05/14/03 at 01:20:35

Click is a slang for kilometer.

I lived in Saudi Arabia in the 80's and heard the term used there frequently, ironically by American expatriate workers.

Possibley they picked it up from European expatriate workers, or maybe it is an oilpatch term.

Another possibility would be from racing circles, lots of people there were into gokarts and dirtbikes.

Re: A Click ?

by Robert Fogt on 05/14/03 at 03:51:17

Yes that is correct. I have both click, and alternate spelling klick on the length/distance conversion page.

I am certain it started in the military, but unsure of exactly how.

My theory is that those big ancient military guns were adjusted by turning knobs or wheels. 1 turn on the knob was a "click" which moved the sights a kilometer.

I see the term on old marine sniper sites, so it may also have something to do with the marines snipers.

Re: A Click ?

by Steve on 05/14/03 at 12:33:33

My first though was the snipers and high power rifle scopes as well. They do use the terms clicks but the reference is to the "click" of the elevation/windage dial on the scope which is in MOA/inches and changed for yards/meters. A Kilometer is a bit far for a sniper so it probably does not apply

My Father is an old (he says young) military man so he might have some insight on older artillery weapons and field usage

Steve

Re: A Click ?

by kim on 08/08/03 at 22:12:36

In Canada, we call them "klicks". It's a slang term. Like how "5 bucks" is 5 dollars.

Re: A Click ?

by John C Studdard on 08/13/03 at 21:09:15

A "click" is an Americanized shortening of kilometer.

I looked it up on a Vietnam veteran's slang website.

KLICK, K: short for kilometer (.62 miles).

Edited July 22, 2005 by SilverEagle

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Deep, a friend of mine was in artillery, but he was in the Marines. From that era they used the term "clicks" as a unit of measuring distance. But I forgot how much distance it represented. I believe that the term came from the artillery. Can you confirm this?

BTW, while I was at NT I did not apply for a deferrment. I was never even called for a physical.

----If you ever had a II-S (or II-A) classification instead of I-A you had a deferment. You did not exactly request a deferment. North Texas and other colleges automaticly mailed your draft board a statement of enrollment. It was in you college registration papers (at least that is the way it was in (1962-66) and (67-68)) that you receieved each semester. You were suppose to carry the classification card in your wallet at all times... that is the card several people burned instead of their draft registration card.

If you never had a card then maybe you didn't register for the draft...which was a crime if caught but I suspect you registered because getting caught was easy, especially if you attended college.. You may not have been called for a physical because of the lottery system put in later (Fall of 68) and you had a really late number.. The second option was you were older than I am and got to age 26 before they needed you. My physical was before the lottery system was put in place.

Edited July 22, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66