Is K-State slipping ?

MeanGreen61 · June 20, 2005

Manhattan malaise

Is K-State slipping, or can Snyder turn it around?

Posted: Tuesday June 14, 2005 3:40PM

It's one of those things that kind of got lost in the shuffle last season, what with other, more pressing stories such as Auburn's Orange Bowl slight, Utah's BCS run and Penn State's quest for a first down. But with season-preview time fast approaching, I recently conducted a little self-refresher course on how certain teams fared last season and couldn't help but do a double-take upon reaching one particular squad.

Kansas State really went 4-7 last year?

I realize this would not have been considered big news back in the 1980s ... or '70s, '60s, '50s or '40s. But lest you've been living under a rock during the past decade, you may remember that the men of Manhattan had, until last year, been making regular appearances in the top 10, having produced six 11-win seasons during a seven-year span (granted, some of those win totals may have been inflated by head coach Bill Snyder's traditional Louisiana-Lafayette/Ball State/Western Kentucky preseason tour, but it was impressive nonetheless). Just the year before last, KSU went 11-4 and stomped previously undefeated Oklahoma in the Big 12 championship game behind a Herculean performance by should-have-been-a-Heisman-finalist running back Darren Sproles.

Then, last season, both Sproles and the Wildcats suddenly vanished off the face of the earth, finishing tied for last in a division -- the Big 12 North -- where none of the other teams were particularly good, either, and prompting Dennis McCulloch of Kansas City, Mo., to ask:

Can Bill Snyder rebuild the Wildcats to their '90s level again? He recruited from Texas when that state's schools were down. Now that those programs are back up -- and given Snyder's age -- can he bring K-State back?

My initial instinct would be to say yes, absolutely, of course he will. Look what happened the last time the Wildcats had a "down" season, in 2001, when they went 6-6 and were stomped by Syracuse in the Insight.com Bowl. They came right out the next year and went 11-2. Quarterback Ell Roberson, who struggled through a season-long shuffle with Marc Dunn in '01, emerged as a star in '02 much the same way many K-State followers expect the talented Allen Webb to do this year after splitting time last season with Dylan Meier.

Still, there was something particularly troubling about last year's Kansas State team: It was terrible on defense, allowing nearly 31 points per game. In the past, no matter how much player turnover occurred from year-to-year, no matter the revolving door of defensive coordinators (Bob Stoops, Mike Stoops, Phil Bennett, Bret Bielema), you could always count on a dominating defense from Snyder's crew.

Bielema's departure after the 2004 season to Wisconsin -- where he instantly turned the Badgers into one of the nation's top defenses -- and the loss of seven starters probably didn't help, but the fact is the Wildcats simply lacked the type of playmakers they've had in the past, particularly in the secondary, whose members were a far cry from Terence Newman, Jarrod Cooper, Chris Canty et al. And I don't put much stock in the Texas recruiting theory, because Mack Brown and Bob Stoops have been cleaning up there for years and K-State was still doing just fine until last season.

Though KSU's defense should be better, on the whole I'm having trouble finding reasons to be overly optimistic about Snyder's prospects this season. The 'Cats lose not only Sproles, who was basically their entire offense last year, but four experienced offensive linemen. And even if K-State is improved, you have to think the rest of the Big 12 North can't help but be, either.

Colorado, the division champ last year with an inspiring 4-4 conference record, returns 17 starters. Iowa State, behind breakout freshman QB Bret Meyer and receiver Todd Blythe, showed the most promise of anyone the second half of the season. Nebraska won't yet be ready to return to elite status this year, but should be better equipped to run Bill Callahan's West Coast offense now that he's recruited a couple of quarterbacks who can throw. Missouri, lest you forget, still has Brad Smith, one of the most talented players in the country when his coach isn't screwing with his head. And Kansas probably would have reached a bowl game last season had quarterback Adam Barmann not gotten hurt.

Snyder will always be remembered for orchestrating arguably the greatest turnaround of a program in college football history, and, because his recalcitrant nature, probably doesn't get nearly the credit he deserves. Let's hope he's not on the verge of a Paterno-like slide that would erode his final legacy.

eeally · June 20, 2005

I cannot wait until the K-State game. We should be prepared, but several question marks to be answered...?

DallasGreen · June 20, 2005

I can certainly wait. I was there in Manhattan in 1989 when we as a 1-AA broke the nation's longest losing streak for then new head coach, Bill Snyder. KSU has come a long way since then and even if they are coming off a down year I would rate NT's chances only slightly better than against LSU ( absolutely NO CHANCE IN HE-- again LSU to slim and none at KSU).

Edited June 20, 2005 by DallasGreen

Greeneagle87 · June 21, 2005

they only beat U-Lala by 20 last season, coach dickey wants a W there, and so do I, we'll do it.

OldTimer · June 21, 2005

I can certainly wait. I was there in Manhattan in 1989 when we as a 1-AA broke the nation's longest losing streak for then new head coach, Bill Snyder. KSU has come a long way since then and even if they are coming off a down year I would rate NT's chances only slightly better than against LSU ( absolutely NO CHANCE IN HE-- again LSU to slim and none at KSU).

My wife and I were at that game in Kansas....it was one of the hottest days I can remember....Nt was # 1 in !AA and KSt had a record losing record...which they broke at the very last minutes of the game. The heat just wore NT out .

FirefightnRick · June 21, 2005

user posted image

I was there too and here is the front of the sports page of the Topeka paper along with my ticket stub. Plum, do you see something that interests you on the ticket stub? I have a picture of it somewhere? It was pretty hot that game, a day game at that and I remember the girl who performed as Eppy/Scrappy nearly vapor locked after the game. Several of their fans in our section told us we were favored in the papers but I'm not sure about that. If you can, read the final drive in the article. It was sickening because the final drive started inside their 15. Then their QB gets sacked back to their 6 yard line with the clock running under 2 minutes or something like that. Then, came the bull$hit pass interference call that started the drive for them. Our DB and their reciever Micheal Smith trip over each others feet right in front of our bench while watching the pass sail over their heads and land 10 feet up field, PASS INTERFERENCE....FIRST DOWN! The rest was history as their drive ends in a final second, TD pass from their 12. The students tore down the goal post and hauled it up onto campus.

Our guys did a hell of a job going up against a much larger, faster, taller Big 8 team but the defense wore down that final drive. I remember one TD where Scott Davis drilled a pass between two defenders that had to of been greased and had a rocket strapped to it for it to have found it's target. What a cannon of an arm.

This game was just an unreal effort by our guys and the K State folks were amazed by their level of play yet ecstatic for the win, but all of us who made the trip were not surprised at all because we had become used to Davis and company performing this way against the big boys. Everyone of the play makers from that era deserve to be in our Hall of Fame.

Rick

Edited June 21, 2005 by FirefightnRick

The Voice of Reason · June 21, 2005

Steve Spurrier's Duke Blue Devils upset #7 Clemson that day, too.

pollock · June 21, 2005

Is Billy Ray Cyrus a KSU fan?

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NCMeanGreen · June 21, 2005

So, you mean to tell me that nothing little KSU was ECSTATIC about beating powerhouse NT???

...and 15 years later little ol' NT will be ECSTATIC about beating powerhouse KSU!

stebo · June 21, 2005

I thought that we were UNT by 1989.

GrayEagle · June 21, 2005

I thought that we were UNT by 1989.

We were...the year before, 1988. My guess is that when the game was scheduled we were North Texas State and KSU went ahead and had the tickets printed with that name. I did not see a single instance of the Capital-Journal calling us North Texas State.

I do think that K-State has slipped a little but they had a pretty lofty perch. I don't think that they've slipped far enough to lose to us; at least not this early in the season.

GreenEddieNT · June 21, 2005

We were...the year before, 1988. My guess is that when the game was scheduled we were North Texas State and KSU went ahead and had the tickets printed with that name. I did not see a single instance of the Capital-Journal calling us North Texas State.
I do think that K-State has slipped a little but they had a pretty lofty perch. I don't think that they've slipped far enough to lose to us; at least not this early in the season.

I agree. Anytime we play on the road and especially with crooked Big-12 refs the chances of victory are remote. Last year we thought Baylor and Colorado had slipped far enough that we could waltz into their stadiums and whip them but we were the ones that got whipped. I'd love to see us go into Manhattan and pull off the upset but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen. Now if we could get them to come play at Fouts I might be more optimistic about our chances of winning.

Edited June 21, 2005 by GreenEddieNT

PlummMeanGreen · June 21, 2005

I agree. Anytime we play on the road and especially with crooked Big-12 refs the chances of victory are remote. Last year we thought Baylor and Colorado had slipped far enough that we could waltz into their stadiums and whip them but we were the ones that got whipped. I'd love to see us go into Manhattan and pull off the upset but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen. Now if we could get them to come play at Fouts I might be more optimistic about our chances of winning.

Never would they play us at Fouts, but a new 35-40,000 seat stadium would enhance our chances dramatically and would with others similar I feel.

A new stadium is being built so we can host such schools like KSU. When we do that, we make more money in one of those games than maybe half an SBC home football schedule in Denton. There are many positive reasons we need this new stadium besides the obvious one TxDOT has given us.

Edited June 21, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen