NHL Season ...

ntsumgspe · February 16, 2005

For those who care, if any, the 2004 - 2005 season has been officially cancelled.

NTEagle08 · February 16, 2005

Dark day for the game of hockey.

The players have let the best deal on the table slip away out of their hands because of their greed. The owners were willing to take linkage of revenues and the cap off the table, but it is almost certain that future negotiations will involve linkage on the NHL's side. Alot of people will probably say that the NHL season was cancelled just over a difference of 6.5 million, but if you look at the NHLPA's proposal, there was a 2 in 6 yr exemption which would have the cap about 10 million above what the NHL was offering.

Next move for the NHL will be to declare an impasse on the NHLPA, which could get ugly with red tape and alot of court preceeding. The NHL will try to get replacement players in for the next season, if a deal is not struck before October, but but I honestly don't see replacement players working. Under Canadian Provincial law, Montreal and Vancouver might not be able to even play with replacement players since those provinces don't allow replacement workers. Also teams could only use players from the country the team resides in, meaning the Stars and the other 23 US teams could only use American hockey players, and the 4 or 6 teams in Canada could only use Canadian players. I honestly don't see where in the world the NHL could fill 24 team rosters with American hockey players and actually make it half way watchable. I don't mind seeing these guys in the lower leagues, but don't try to put in players in which you know are far below the skill of the NHL players and still try to market and sell tickets just as if they were NHL players.

The NHL has taken a big blow today, and honestly don't know how they are going to recouperate from the damage that has already been inflicted by the cancelation of the season. The game is going to have to been greatly retooled when it comes back, including probably alot of rule changes. And personally I would love to see the contraction of a few teams in horrible hockey markets(Carolina, Florida(Miami), Atlanta, and Anahiem)

LadyGreen · February 16, 2005

The players have let the best deal on the table slip away out of their hands because of their greed.

Greed, and that is why I dont like pro sports. They are in it for the money, and not the fun, and love of the game.

UNTLifer · February 16, 2005

Not all the blame should go to the players.....Bettman should look in the mirror. He has been a disaster as NHL Commissioner.

NTEagle08 · February 16, 2005

Not all the blame should go to the players.....Bettman should look in the mirror. He has been a disaster as NHL Commissioner.

Granted Bettman has been a pretty horrible NHL commissioner, but at least he acknowledged the problem and was trying to fix it unlike Bob Goodenow and his chums over at the NHLPA that live in a fantasy world. Any sport that 75% of the revenues are going to the players, is destined to have problems. Also I put some blame on some owners that overspent and led to this point, I love the Stars and the winning of the last few years, but Hicks and his super aggresive spending has led to some of the problems that have led to this point.

Edited February 16, 2005 by NTEagle08

Rudy · February 16, 2005

Words can not ecpress how PISSED off I am about this. I think all of them are responsible, but Goodenow and Betteman are the catalysts. This has been coming for 10 freaking years, and they did not try to avoid this. I hope the NHL can rise above this, hockey is one of the greatest sports. Once you give it a shot, you can become hooked very quickly. It took me one game to get hooked back in 1992, when the Rangers and blues held a game at Reunion. The sucess of that game led to the North Stars moving to Dallas the following season and becoming the Dallas Stars.

If the NHL does have to use replacement players, it can work. Don't sell the American hockey program short. It has grown leaps and bounds the past 10-15 years. We talked about this Monday night Matt, the American teams would use players from the minors, juniors, and junior A teams. Most of those players are bound for the NHL anyways. Don't forget that Hockey is the national pasttime of Canada. Im sure they can field top notch teams. I think the Canadian government would make an exception on the no replacement workers rule. The NHL can make it work with replacement players. The true fans will still come to watch, and there there could still be some new fans that start watching.

IF this is the beginning of the end of the NHL, hockey will not die. There will could be a new league starting up. If this BS persists, There are a couple of hall of famers that are willing to start a new league.

Coach · February 17, 2005

Hockey's ratings had been so poor, it would take a miracle (ouch, no pun intended) for this not to be a severly crippling if not deadly blow for the NHL.

I heard Ralph and Razor on Galloway yesterday, and they had some good ideas to make the game better.

One that may sound silly but I agree with is the promotion of fantasy hockey leagues. I love sports, but the ONLY reason I paid ANY attention to the league before the playoffs was because I had a fantasy hockey team. This also promotes the games stars and gets people to have interest in every game, not just the hometown team's.

The game also needs to be more free flowing like the Olympic hockey games.

NTEagle08 · February 17, 2005

Hockey's ratings had been so poor, it would take a miracle (ouch, no pun intended) for this not to be a severly crippling if not deadly blow for the NHL.
I heard Ralph and Razor on Galloway yesterday, and they had some good ideas to make the game better.
One that may sound silly but I agree with is the promotion of fantasy hockey leagues. I love sports, but the ONLY reason I paid ANY attention to the league before the playoffs was because I had a fantasy hockey team. This also promotes the games stars and gets people to have interest in every game, not just the hometown team's.
The game also needs to be more free flowing like the Olympic hockey games.

When the game comes back, you will see some new rules to help create more flow to the game and diminish the clutching and grabbing. New rules will probably include decreasing the goalie pads, going to no touch icing, touch up offsides, and the possible implentation of shootouts to determine tie games. I would consider myself a traditionalist fan of the game, and if you had asked me a year ago about these changes, I probably would have been against them. But that flies out the window when the league just cancelled it season and is going to need to do something to create excitement in the game once it comes back. Also I have not seen a NHL game in HD yet, but I have heard that it translates great on HD. I know that is some people's problem with the game in that it is not tv-friendly, but hopefully with the increasing popularity in HD that can also help out the league.

Edited February 17, 2005 by NTEagle08

Rudy · February 17, 2005

The free-flowing aspect you referred to in international hockey play is largely due to a larger rink. I would not mind seeing that implemented in the NHL. Regarding rule changes, I would also like to try not calling two line passes. That has a big tendancy to slow the game. I like, NTEagle08 love hockey, but I would say that I am a student of the game. I would have been against rule changes too, but right now, we need to get more people into this sport. It truly is a great sport, one that I have spent the past 10 years loving and promoting, not to mention a few hundred $$ on it here at NT.

GreenBrigadeDebbie · February 17, 2005

Words can not ecpress how PISSED off I am about this. I think all of them are responsible, but Goodenow and Betteman are the catalysts. This has been coming for 10 freaking years, and they did not try to avoid this. I hope the NHL can rise above this, hockey is one of the greatest sports. Once you give it a shot, you can become hooked very quickly. It took me one game to get hooked back in 1992, when the Rangers and blues held a game at Reunion. The sucess of that game led to the North Stars moving to Dallas the following season and becoming the Dallas Stars.
If the NHL does have to use replacement players, it can work. Don't sell the American hockey program short. It has grown leaps and bounds the past 10-15 years. We talked about this Monday night Matt, the American teams would use players from the minors, juniors, and junior A teams. Most of those players are bound for the NHL anyways. Don't forget that Hockey is the national pasttime of Canada. Im sure they can field top notch teams. I think the Canadian government would make an exception on the no replacement workers rule. The NHL can make it work with replacement players. The true fans will still come to watch, and there there could still be some new fans that start watching.
IF this is the beginning of the end of the NHL, hockey will not die. There will could be a new league starting up. If this BS persists, There are a couple of hall of famers that are willing to start a new league.

When you boil down to it Rudy, GREED was the catalyst. The commissioner didn't make the players want more money. The players wanted more money, the fans didn't want to pay the extreme prices (I don't blame them) and the league doesn't have enough to pay for the high ludicrous salaries of the players. I am sorry, no one no matter how talented they are (and doesn't matter what sport they play either) do not deserve that much money. Yes, athletes work very very hard to keep in shape etc. Yes they deserve to make some decent money for their work. There are starving people in the third world countries. There are people who can't afford college.

But when you are making millions of dollars and that isn't enough for you, I am sorry. THAT IS GREED!!!!!!!!! Take it for what it is worth. BUT THAT IS GREEDY!!

I am sorry I see things differently. But my parents are living off about $10,000 a year. We are scraping up money for food. So I am very upset that the players want that much money. Especially with my situation at home....

KingDL1 · February 17, 2005

A sad day for Hockey, but everyone knew it was coming. The players gambled and lost, I expect some major rifts will open up in the Players Union in the the next few months. They allowed the superstars to dictate their policy and now several will never play again, some are ready to retire, some will get cut for some younger better talent that developed over this lost season. I expect many players will get hammered financially, because they never figured they would have to go the distance with their strike.

I am not a believer in the doom and gloom predictions of the media in regards to NHL fan base, in fact I expect the opposite. I play hockey at the Dr. Pepper Star's center in Euless and in Farmers Branch and everyone I have discussed the situation with have been looking forward to next season, because they gave up on this one last summer. My coworkers and friends outside of my hockey leagues don't really seem that pissed because they expected this season to get canceled or whatever. The big thing is no one I talked to has said anything about not watching hockey, and most say they watch it just the same when the NHL comes back. Plus if the owners do what they promised the fans by cutting prices to make games more affordable, I expect the attendance to rise.

Also back to recreational hockey, youth league hockey and high-school hockey, which have all been growing like mad around the country, should just produce more fans.

I think hockey needs to go to a salary cap, and the owners are on the way to fixing a problem that was created by all involved. If the fans see that the owners really accomplish something there will be some satisfaction for the fans. Unlike strikes in baseball, football, and basketball where by the end of the everyone concedes their points as part of a negotiating tactics, and everyone goes why. Plus I think lots of sports fans would like to see professional sports salaries get truly controlled in at least on sport.

Coach · February 17, 2005

The TV deal the NHL got was terrible from what I understand and their ratings were so low, they may not have had much of a choice. TV runs every sport from college up so that is why I think they will have major struggles. The guys who play hockey every week or follow the sport closely won't care, but hockey was struggling with the fringe fans anyway, and this could not be more poorly timed in that respect.

Rudy · February 17, 2005

True, greed is a major part. In comparison, professional hockey players make the least amount of money for the hardest sport to play. Yes the players association was greedy, but they did concede in te end. They agreed to a large pay reduction, AND a salary cap. The owners and Bettman won. but to those a-holes it wasnt enough to just win. They felt they had to crush the union, even at the expense of the fans. Bettman is the same owner who irresponsibly told the owners to spend whatever on players, because th NHL would be raking in money from endorsementsm tv deals, and ticket sales. He has run the league into near bankruptcy. Greed led to this, but Bettman's idiocy and ego are the reason this BS continues.

GreenBrigadeDebbie · February 17, 2005

True, greed is a major part. In comparison, professional hockey players make the least amount of money for the hardest sport to play. Yes the players association was greedy, but they did concede in te end. They agreed to a large pay reduction, AND a salary cap. The owners and Bettman won. but to those a-holes it wasnt enough to just win. They felt they had to crush the union, even at the expense of the fans. Bettman is the same owner who irresponsibly told the owners to spend whatever on players, because th NHL would be raking in money from endorsementsm tv deals, and ticket sales. He has run the league into near bankruptcy. Greed led to this, but Bettman's idiocy and ego are the reason this BS continues.

I don't care if they are the least paid professional sports players or not. They still make WAY too much. I still don't care if they decided to "give up" in the end. They are still money hungry goobers. I still don't even care that the commissioner is a so called a-hole. What it all boils down to is that the players are money hungry.

Don't get me wrong, I really love sports. (Those of you who know me, know that I am a HUGE sports fan) But at the same time, this whole debacle just brought up how money hungry the professional sports players are. And I guess it is really hard to swallow right now seeing how my dad lost his job two weeks ago and we don't know how we are going to make it.

KingDL1 · February 17, 2005

I think Bettman nailed it best when he compared the 52 million then later 49 million cap the player Union responded with is an arbitrary number not related to revenue, to the NFL which has a salary cap of 80.5 million with 5.2 Billion in revenue. The NFL has a great TV deal, great merchandising rights and probably has 30 times more fans. NHL revenue last year was about 2 billion.

Something to think about if you compared dollar to dollar the NFL cap would have to 127.4 million dollar cap (Based on the 49 million last offer of the players)* or NHL would have to be like 30.96 million dollars a year, which I really think makes the numbers more understandable.

*Even the owners final offer of 42.5 million comes out to 110.5 million as compared to the NFL.

The players are suckers!! NO DOUBT!!! (I am not sure off the top of my head but the maximum football roster I think is 53 players and hockey is I believe 20 players)

I really doubt the owners deal anywhere near 42.5 million again, I would start the bidding around 26 million and shoot for 30-34 million cap if I were them.

Edited February 17, 2005 by KingDL1

UNT_92_Fan · February 17, 2005

i was excited to wake up to the announcement....it assured me that hockey would not get in the way of basketball and baseball highlights on sportscenter! Sorry, I am not the best person to comment on this topic...never got into Hockey....

But I think it is all based on greed....you are gettin money to PLAY the game you "LOVE"....I would play baseball for a living for minimum salary...if they HAD to pay me!

NTEagle08 · February 18, 2005

There are actually rumors swiriling around right now that there are players trying to come up with a deal to possibly save the season. I am taking this with a grain of salt in that I am not wanting to give my hopes up again, but I don't think it's fair with how the media, players, and league are playing the fans like this, it's almost cruel.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=115266

Edited February 18, 2005 by NTEagle08

Rudy · February 19, 2005

It is just coming out that the season has been officially uncancelled, and it will be announced Saturday. This is great news for us hockey fans. The way its coming across is that the players and some of the owners were pissed about the way this was handled, and they were also upset that the fans were being treated. The parties involved met, once again excluding Goodenow and Bettman. I know some of you will not like this, and some still think this was all of the playes fault to begin with. If you look at it in more depth, yes, it was caused by BOTH parties, not just the players. The owners and Bettman probably esclated it more than necessary by the way it was handled. As this went on, more of the lockout has to fall on the Bettman. As its falling now, I think this will save the NHL, and help move hockey into the spotlight with the other 4 major sports. I believe it was stated best as "A little revolution now and then is a healthy thing." What you will see happen is Gary Bettman and Rick Goodenow will be fired, most likely after this abbrevieated season. The new commissioner will be someone who understands hockey, its legacy and history, and its close link with the fans. I think you will see the likes of a Mario Lemiuex as the new commish. Now as to what led to this development, like I said, the players and some owners like Gretzky and Lemiuex who understand the ties to the fans, made this happen. Some of you may not like this, but professional hockey players are the most down to earth, friendly, and the most appreciative athletes. In then end, they realized that the fans were getting screwed and they stepped up. I have to give props to the players for not giving up. Im not saying they were totally innocent in all of this, because they werent, but in the end, they, Lemiuex, and Gretzky fixed this. I also think this is the first step in sloving the problems the NHL has had.

Now, I know some of you don't like hockey and that is fine, but please don't demean or badmouth this sport. I don't go around slamming basketball, soccer, tennis, or other sports that many of you like, please return the favor.

GreenBrigadeDebbie · February 19, 2005

It is just coming out that the season has been officially uncancelled, and it will be announced Saturday. This is great news for us hockey fans. The way its coming across is that the players and some of the owners were pissed about the way this was handled, and they were also upset that the fans were being treated. The parties involved met, once again excluding Goodenow and Bettman. I know some of you will not like this, and some still think this was all of the playes fault to begin with. If you look at it in more depth, yes, it was caused by BOTH parties, not just the players. The owners and Bettman probably esclated it more than necessary by the way it was handled. As this went on, more of the lockout has to fall on the Bettman. As its falling now, I think this will save the NHL, and help move hockey into the spotlight with the other 4 major sports. I believe it was stated best as "A little revolution now and then is a healthy thing." What you will see happen is Gary Bettman and Rick Goodenow will be fired, most likely after this abbrevieated season. The new commissioner will be someone who understands hockey, its legacy and history, and its close link with the fans. I think you will see the likes of a Mario Lemiuex as the new commish. Now as to what led to this development, like I said, the players and some owners like Gretzky and Lemiuex who understand the ties to the fans, made this happen. Some of you may not like this, but professional hockey players are the most down to earth, friendly, and the most appreciative athletes. In then end, they realized that the fans were getting screwed and they stepped up. I have to give props to the players for not giving up. Im not saying they were totally innocent in all of this, because they werent, but in the end, they, Lemiuex, and Gretzky fixed this. I also think this is the first step in sloving the problems the NHL has had.
Now, I know some of you don't like hockey and that is fine, but please don't demean or badmouth this sport. I don't go around slamming basketball, soccer, tennis, or other sports that many of you like, please return the favor.

I am glad that you get your hockey back.

Rudy · February 19, 2005

Debbie, i understand your POV in this, Ive been there, done it, got the t-shirt, and had it signed. I just don't know if you are looking at the big picture in this. Im not critisizing you, but if you want, I'd be happy to have a discussion with you sometime, pull me aside at the next bball bame.

There is still some talk that this deal is not going to happen.

Coach · February 19, 2005

I doubt you will take the same stance on the impending NBA lockout judging by bringing up the only politcially incorrect thing KG has ever said in another thread and your comments about the Malice at the Palace.

All these major sports labor issues are greed and irresponsiblity from both sides. I think that the owners have the better plan with the NHL lockout, but they got themselves in the problem in the first place. The players ignoring the facts and still holding out to make way more than what they know is there is greed as well.

Fortunately for hockey, nobody watched the games so they have no celebrity multi-millionaire like Ron Artest (Tie Domi) to villify. Then idiots like Latrine Sprewell ruins the image for guys like Mike Finley.

I don't have sympathy for either side, and I don't have sympathy for fans. Just follow college sports, or high school, I bet you will find that they are more pure and enjoyable anyway. And I love pro sports, but that is still the truth. They don't owe me anything, and I could get my fix without them.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Coach

Rudy · February 19, 2005

I haven't heard anything about the possible NBA lockout, so I really would not be able to comment on it. As far as the KG comment, I just thought it was freakin hilarious. Like I said, both parties were responsible, but I think the owners escalated it beyond the necessary level. Hockey has its black eyes so to speak. Marty McSorley had his career ended due to a momentary lack of judgement, when he high sticked Donald Brashear. This past season, Bertuzzi took a cheap shot. Neither of those guys are dirty players, they just lost their temper. Much like Artest or Sprewell lost their tempers. Now I don't know what type of players Ron or Latrell are, maybe they really are aholes, maybe not, but they lost their temper and that helps to make the NBA look bad. Anyways, it still remains to be seen if the NHL will resume play this year.

Coach · February 19, 2005

Artest is actually a pretty complete player, plays defense, hustles, scores. He is just insane.

Sprewell is the epitome of everything wrong with the modern professional athlete both on and off the court. If the NBA did not have that stupid guaranteed contract thing, he wouldn't have a job right now. Maybe they can fix that this summer when they have a lockout.

All I understand about it, is that the owners will lock out the players the second the CBA ends, but they are expected to get a deal hammered out by the time the season starts. That of course could change for the worse quickly.

GreenBrigadeDebbie · February 19, 2005

Debbie, i understand your POV in this, Ive been there, done it, got the t-shirt, and had it signed. I just don't know if you are looking at the big picture in this. Im not critisizing you, but if you want, I'd be happy to have a discussion with you sometime, pull me aside at the next bball bame.
There is still some talk that this deal is not going to happen.

You understand my point of the players being greedy? Your parents have been fired/laid off and been forced to scrape money up just to put a side salad on the table? I am sorry if anything I have said has offended you. But honestly, I don't care how bad the commissioner was or is, to me the whole NHL debacle came down to greed. I am still baffled that millions of dollars is still not enough. Because there are so many people who can't even buy essentials. For instance, I just want to buy a dependable car. I want to put food on the table. And right now I can't do either. So yes the debacle hit me wrong. That is why I am upset. It doesn't matter how much they are paid because they should be playing for the love of the game.

But you are entitled to be a hockey fanatic. I can't take that away from you and I hope that I haven't bashed it for you. I am not an anti hockey fan (I actually want to go to a Stars game really bad) but it is their greed that turns me off (that is why I haven't been to one of my beloved Cowboy games. $40 for the cheap seats is not worth it right now). So with that being said, I said what I wanted to and got it off my chest!! Have a great weekend Brian!!

Edited February 19, 2005 by GreenBrigadeDebbie

NTEagle08 · February 19, 2005

I don't have sympathy for either side, and I don't have sympathy for fans. Just follow college sports, or high school, I bet you will find that they are more pure and enjoyable anyway. And I love pro sports, but that is still the truth. They don't owe me anything, and I could get my fix without them.

Hockey is alot different from fooball, baseball, and basketball in that the best players for the most part don't play high school hockey, and about 90% of them don't play college hockey. Hockey is a pretty difficult sport to follow outside the local minor leagues and the NHL, since college hockey is pretty much unheard of down here and you pretty much have to have a dish to follow it. And some of the best amateur hockey isn't even in the States, it's up in the junior leagues in Canada, which you pretty much can't follow unless you live in Canada.