WKU played UNT like chumps

GreenEggs&Ham™ · February 13, 2005

Summary

WKU 93 UNT 92 F

UNT blew a 25 point lead.

Had 22 turnovers.

Squandered away last four minutes of the game.

WKU chumped UNT into last second win !

WKU allowed UNT to score the last second shot so they could win.

That's because they knew UNT would fall for it and not defend the inbounds or Winchester for the last shot. I made that very prediction to my wife with 6 seconds to go when it was 90 - 90 and I was right.

I guess I shouldn't complain, UNT played an excellent first half and our players are good from the free throw line. Not so good at defending off the dribble, but with some impoved COACHING, we have a chance come tourny time in 3 weeks at home.

Edited February 13, 2005 by GreenEggs&Ham™

SUMG · February 13, 2005

The final was 93-92, btw.

I listened to the game...I guess maybe you got it on televison back in Bowling Green...right GE &H?

I had no idea that we didn't guard the inbounds pass. For those who don't know, we go up 92-90 with 3 seconds left.....and let them get the ball in (unguarded I now gather).....to a point guard who gets the ball to their hottest player (the guy had 33 b-4 the final three).

You are definitely right....that inbounds pass needed to be guarded.

Edited February 13, 2005 by SUMG

bflan · February 13, 2005

Quite a bummer that they couldn't close the deal. I listened to the game and was impressed, at least, that some of the players seemed to step up a bit.

The team could use a winning streak.

February 13, 2005

I'm sorry, but no coach is going to tell his team to let their opponent score with 3 seconds left with the reasoning that they will have a chance to attempt to go the length of the court and shoot a near half court shot for the win.

GangGreen · February 13, 2005

I think the thought on not guarding the inbounds pass is to have 5 defenders on four offensive players. With three seconds to go, this makes sense, because the man throwing the inbounds pass will not be involved in the play.

Winchester made a very unlikely shot.

SUMG · February 13, 2005

One other thing about the inbounds situation.....they had to get it in....because they were out of timeouts.

Also, if you're not going to guard the inbounds....you would think two guys would have been on Winchester (who had 33 before hitting the winning 3 pointer). Their other best scorer had fouled out (Lee--that great freshman of theirs).

Did we have two guys on Winchester....when he hit that shot???

GangGreen · February 13, 2005

Actually, they called timeout before inbounding the ball. As far as a double-team goes, I'm not sure, but Isaac Hines was in his face when he shot the ball.

February 13, 2005

The way our defense was set up had Hines in the backcourt and the other four defenders spread out about half way between the 3 point line and half court. It was a good defensive set up in that we were aligned to make them make a long shot. As was stated already, Hines was on Winchester when he shot, but what I didn't understand is why none of the other four defenders stepped up to help when it seemed that is why the defense was set up that way.

Guarding the inbounds is necessary when there is only enough time for a catch and shoot. 3.4 seconds is enough to allow the team to cover enough ground to make it past half court. It is sound strategy to have that fifth defender who would be guarding the inbounds back defending the shot with the amount of time there was left. There is no excuse however for the other four defenders falling back and making Hines guard the shooter by himself. There was not enough time for anything other than a couple of dribbles and a shot after Winchester got the ball, and I don't understand why no one stepped up to make him shoot over someone. Maybe they were afraid of fouling, but you still have to make the person shoot a difficult shot.

UNTSportsGuy · February 13, 2005

They should have either guarded the inbound, or should have fronted the players running towards the inbounder, and had the extra defender inside half-court to help out on the long pass.

SUMG · February 13, 2005

Actually, they called timeout before inbounding the ball. As far as a double-team goes, I'm not sure, but Isaac Hines was in his face when he shot the ball.

What I meant Gang Green....is that they were out of timeouts (after having called that one before the inbounds play). And because of that, if we had guarded their players well, to where he didn't have anyone open to throw to......the player inbounding the ball couldn't call a timeout.

Sorry if I wasn't clear what I meant there.

GreenEggs&Ham™ · February 13, 2005

What I meant Gang Green....is that they were out of timeouts (after having called that one before the inbounds play). And because of that, if we had guarded their players well, to where he didn't have anyone open to throw to......the player inbounding the ball couldn't call a timeout.
Sorry if I wasn't clear what I meant there.

Defending the inbounder in this situation is a MUST considering WKU had no timeouts and it forces them to come to the inbounder to catch the pass which in turn starts the clock and forces them to make a much more difficult shot (i.e longer and at an angle).

In todays Bowling Green paper, Anthony Winchester mentioned that he practices 35 foot jumpers "alot.....EVERYDAY". Of course he practices this every day!

Coach Horn also said the last play went perfectly as planned.

Problems I have with this game:

1. Squandered huge lead !

2. 22 turnovers ( 9 turnovers in the final 8 minutes !)

3. Only 2!!!!!!!! field goals in the final 8 minutes.

4. Not going for the last shot. We layed it in with 3.1 seconds remaining.

5. Not guarding the inbounds and giving the best shooter in the conference a wide open 35 footer. (Folks, that is not as low a percentage shot as you may think with the talent that I see up here in Kentucky and Indiana.

6. Horn wanted to avoid OT at all cost, and we let him do just that.Chances of WKU winning in OT ~10% with there injuries and the fact they were on the road and WKU played 5 games in 10 days. Winchester hitting 35 footer 40% or better IMHO. I would have fould UNT and gone for the final shot personally.

Coach · February 13, 2005

First of all, I had no problem at all with Watson's lay in with 3.2 left. That was a very high percentage shot that will win the game in that situation 9 times out of 10.

About the final play, the problem wasn't if the inbounds pass was guarded or not. It was with the lack of aggresiveness by four of the players on the court who essentially stood there and watched Winchester do his thing. That was not the first time of that game or this season that style of defense has been displayed.

It should never have come to that though. The substitution patterns and as usual-the use of timeouts were perlpexing the whole game. Most teams would lose some edge after going up that big that early, but some of that mentality was encouraged by the coaching style during that time. They should have kept the pedal to the metal, not go to all D-no O lineups and running the same tired play again and again on offense (which WKU had learned so well by the end of the first half, they were beating NT to their spots). This was a good program in WKU they were playing, not SOSU.

Once again, the defensive rebounding was lackluster. Even my wife, who doesn't even really like hoops, and knows nothing about it, asked "why do we keep letting them get it back?" Between that and the silly fouls giving Winchester two consecutive and 1's and getting guys in foul trouble, the discipline on this team is spotty at best. The turnover story backs up that point as well.

A loss like this is tough, but you just have to hope that the team learned some lessons from it that will prevent it from happening again.

MeanGreenHoops · February 13, 2005

First of all, I had no problem at all with Watson's lay in with 3.2 left. That was a very high percentage shot that will win the game in that situation 9 times out of 10.
About the final play, the problem wasn't if the inbounds pass was guarded or not. It was with the lack of aggresiveness by four of the players on the court who essentially stood there and watched Winchester do his thing. That was not the first time of that game or this season that style of defense has been displayed.
It should never have come to that though. The substitution patterns and as usual-the use of timeouts were perlpexing the whole game. Most teams would lose some edge after going up that big that early, but some of that mentality was encouraged by the coaching style during that time. They should have kept the pedal to the metal, not go to all D-no O lineups and running the same tired play again and again on offense (which WKU had learned so well by the end of the first half, they were beating NT to their spots). This was a good program in WKU they were playing, not SOSU.
Once again, the defensive rebounding was lackluster. Even my wife, who doesn't even really like hoops, and knows nothing about it, asked "why do we keep letting them get it back?" Between that and the silly fouls giving Winchester two consecutive and 1's and getting guys in foul trouble, the discipline on this team is spotty at best. The turnover story backs up that point as well.
A loss like this is tough, but you just have to hope that the team learned some lessons from it that will prevent it from happening again.

I'm sure they did learn some things, problem is we'll still have Johnny on the bench at the next game, and he still won't adjust to the game situations, and he'll still make weird substitutions and we'll still lose, unless they totally suck like NMSU.

GreenEggs&Ham™ · February 13, 2005

I agree with Coach. The game should have never came down to a last second winning 3 pointer considering how badly WKU played in the first half. It is rare to see a team squander such a huge lead in a game, but it occassionally happens.

I shouldn't complain though. UNT is a much improved program compared to the Trilli years and Jimmy Gails final years.

Buford_Julep · February 13, 2005

JJ explained the strategy on the radio show. Don't foul and don't let the other team have a good shot at the basket.

The defenders lined up about 30 feet from the basket. When they saw no WKU player was going to try to get behind them, Hines and Hopkins moved up to the midcourt stripe. Winchester took the pass dribbled between the defenders and threw up a desperation shot on the run from about 30-35 feet that bounced off the glass and into the basket. It was by far the poorest percentage shot that was attepted by either side in the game. JJ's strategy achieved what it was planned to do.

If somehow he had known in advance that the shot would go in, I am sure he would have played pass denial defense. He had his players playing what he thought gave them the highest percentage chance of winning the game.

Brent · February 13, 2005

When we scored that basket with 3.2 left and WKU called timeout, my friend asked what I would do.

I told him WKU should go for the a 3 and the win and we should foul the player who gets the inbound. It sounds crazy, but if they miss one (and our guys do the job by blocking out) we win. If they make both, then we have a chance to do what they did, and at worst we go to overtime...and being the home team, we would have had the advantage. They wanted no part of OT.

Alas, we allow thier best player (last night) to get off a not too contested shot from much closer then he should have been allowed and give up two leads that should have be too much for anyone to come back from.

We will see how they play Monday night against a patsy.

gksmith · February 14, 2005

A few more performances like that and UNT won't even make the SBC tournament that they are hosting.

February 14, 2005

A few more performances like that and UNT won't even make the SBC tournament that they are hosting.

Every team in the conference is in the tournament.

If we play the way we did against WKU against pretty much any other team in the league we will win.

Edited February 14, 2005 by e-bone

NTEagle08 · February 14, 2005

It looks as though North Texas will have to play a Friday game during the tourny, unless they can pretty much win out for the season and hope that UNO loses a game(minus the game they have against NT).

gksmith · February 14, 2005

Every team in the conference is in the tournament.
If we play the way we did against WKU against pretty much any other team in the league we will win.

Unless they changed the rules on who makes the tourny. UNT did not make the tournament last season. I thought only the top 3 or top 4 in each division made the cut. UNT right now is #4 in the division.

Regardless, if they can't hold a 25 point lead, UNT stay in the tournament won't be very long.

February 15, 2005

Unless they changed the rules on who makes the tourny. UNT did not make the tournament last season. I thought only the top 3 or top 4 in each division made the cut. UNT right now is #4 in the division.
Regardless, if they can't hold a 25 point lead, UNT stay in the tournament won't be very long.

Last year they experimented with dropping the bottom 3 from the tournament, and yes, North Texas was in the tournament.