How long are they are coaches?

[Coach]

So "some people" should be grateful for fans like you...that don't claim to be a die-hard, did not follow or support the basketball team as student or as an alumni, but post about the unsatisfactory job the coaches are doing? It seems like fans/alum like this is part of the problem and why we have below average attendance. I live in the metroplex, married, and have a job, so don't lecture me about the real world.

You can find time for the things you WANT to find time for.

How have you tried to become involved and supportive for the basketball program, other than the huge contribution of this thread of course? I am not calling you out, these are your own words you used to describe your involvement, and they seem to contradict the level of support you outlined in the rest of the thread.

The basketball support at this school is a joke, and it is no wonder that CUSA passed us by. We CANNOT blame SMU or politics for this, all we can do is look in the mirror as a collective fan base and know the real reason. We have a long way to go in football, and longer in basketball. The shame of it is, everyone thinks a stadium that has not been built or funded will answer the former and nobody gives a crap about the latter.

[SUMG]

The basketball support at this school is a joke, and it is no wonder that CUSA passed us by.  We CANNOT blame SMU or politics for this, all we can do is look in the mirror as a collective fan base and know the real reason.  We have a long way to go in football, and longer in basketball.  The shame of it is, everyone thinks a stadium that has not been built or funded will answer the former and nobody gives a crap about the latter.

Great post.

[El Paso Eagle]

The basketball support at this school is a joke, and it is no wonder that CUSA passed us by.  We CANNOT blame SMU or politics for this, all we can do is look in the mirror as a collective fan base and know the real reason.  We have a long way to go in football, and longer in basketball.  The shame of it is, everyone thinks a stadium that has not been built or funded will answer the former and nobody gives a crap about the latter.

Truer words may never have been spoken (or in this case written).

[WIFE2HOT4U]

LOL, okay...........

Say what you want but my love for UNT runs deep, I value my education and enjoy the successes we have in athletics.

Anyways, I don't lecture about life it's just my opinion (on why more of us don't attend games) and WINNING PROGRAMS AGAINST RESPECTABLE TEAMS will result in support!

When you watch the BB programs that have major support, who fills the stands? Students (Unless it’s TT and there is nothing else to do in the town)! Even some Alumni of Duke are very supportive without attending every game. Why, because they don't have to the place will sell out without them.

If the SP was packed every night would anyone debate this issue.......no.

I feel I can "call out" the coaching when we lose like we have regardless of my level of support for the BB team. It’s really a cry for them to give me a reason to want to be more involved!

I agree it is sad that basically the only way I heard of our BB team in 98 was through the Greek System. So, I understand that students may not even know what’s going on and when games are…………..don’t blame me blame the school admin!

[WIFE2HOT4U]

"Any complacency by administration toward medicore basketball would only reflect the sentiment of the fan base."

IMHO

BS..............

If that were true than the TB Bucs would have never won a Super Bowl!

(Go ahead I know it's the NFL not NCAA)

It all starts at the top!

[eulesseagle]

There was a good article in the Fort Worth Star Telegram either today or yesterday stating the 22 or 23 D-1 BB coaching changes this year .... along with the records from 2003/2004 and this year.

Only about 3 or 4 of those schools had an improved record. The majority of them had the same record and a few more had worse records. Think about that.

If a majority of us "old-timers" see a pattern of success in a program then it may be best to stay the course. I may not agree with some of the play calling of JJ but we have come pretty close to winning a few more games than in the last couple of years. We could be easlily 15-7 or 16-6 right now. Even Coach Trilli in some of his immortal words said that you know you are improving when you are loosing by fewer points every year then you start winning the close ones that you are loosing then you win the ones you are suppose to win. To me that makes sense. It should make sense to you too!!!!

JJ has gotten some good players to come to UNT from a program that was not doing so well when Trilli left. It takes a little more time for a "mid-major" program like UNT to compete with the "major" programs.

Be patient.....JJ will do us a good job.

[brittain12345]

Why is lack of support not a valid excuse for mediocre performances? I don't blame the alums for not being able to travel up to Denton on a Thursday night for a game against a team like Florida International. Things like that can't be helped. Why, though, can't lack of support among the current students be a factor in continuing mediocrity? If you asked me, I would say that we are a better team this year than we were last year (I think we would have lost by 30 to TCU instead of 10) but a sought after recruit doesn't care that the team improves if he walks in and sees that more people showed up to his last high school game than for UNT. Students that WANT to be at the games become alums that WANT to drive to the games which in turn creates a situation where recruits WANT to be there because the fans are there, too.

[FirefightnRick]

WIFE, I fully understood what you meant about our facilities, and I am grateful that alumni like yourself and others are coming around. Our alumni have been crapped on for years so it is a wonderful time to see some coming back again regardless of when or for what. Do what you can, where you can and when you can. Not every alumn can make all events. That's for those 10 to 15,000 students within a mile or two of campus to do. Anyone who thinks differently has a larger, personal problem than simply our attendance issues.

Rick

[Coach]

"Any complacency by administration toward medicore basketball would only reflect the sentiment of the fan base."

IMHO

BS..............

Look at our attendance and look at the emphasis placed on a winning basketball program. That's not BS, sorry, and no amount of Tampa Bay Buccaneer refrences can twist it around otherwise.

I don't blame the alums for not being able to travel up to Denton on a Thursday night for a game against a team like Florida International.

That's one extreme, and you have a point with that specific example. How about Saturday games which are day long events for football but not worthy of 3-4 hours counting drive and gametime for basketball? You want better opponents? So do I. I know, let's get in CUSA...wait, we can't draw 3,000 for men's basketball games, that won't happen.

Not every alumn can make all events. That's for those 10 to 15,000 students within a mile or two of campus to do.

No, not everyone can make every event. But the question our fan base needs to ask itself is if they do as you say, "Do what you can, where you can and when you can. " It has been painfully obvious to me over the last 4+ years that most of our fan base can answer honestly that they fulfill that. Our football games need to be better attendend, and our basketball attendance is a freaking joke. Ignore that all you want, turn your head and whistle and pretend it was SMU's politics that kept us out of CUSA, but you might as well have your head in the sand.

If those that proclaim themselves NT's biggest fans, most loyal alumni, the die-hards so to speak can't even give the basketball team HALF the time and money they give the football team, how can we expect impressionable students, fairweather Dentonites, and local basketball fans to do the same? We can't, there is no way around it. There HAS to be improvement, and if it doesn't start with the hard core NT fans, it won't start anywhere.

Anyone who thinks differently has a larger, personal problem than simply our attendance issues.

I do have a very large personal problem. It is my alma mater not being what it can be, and until that happens, it won't be all green and all good. There has to be a change, will it start with us or will we make excuses about why we aren't accountable and pass on the same problem to the next generation of alumni?

[Coffee and TV]

At least we're not these guys...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1991648

[greenjoe]

That's too bad. But with 1,357 fans, I bet they outdrew us tonight (vs UTPB).

GO (to the games)MEAN GREEN

[FirefightnRick]

If those that proclaim themselves NT's biggest fans, most loyal alumni, the die-hards so to speak can't even give the basketball team HALF the time and money they give the football team, how can we expect impressionable students, fairweather Dentonites, and local basketball fans to do the same? We can't, there is no way around it. There HAS to be improvement, and if it doesn't start with the hard core NT fans, it won't start anywhere.

QUOTE 

Anyone who thinks differently has a larger, personal problem than simply our attendance issues.

I do have a very large personal problem. It is my alma mater not being what it can be, and until that happens, it won't be all green and all good. There has to be a change, will it start with us or will we make excuses about why we aren't accountable and pass on the same problem to the next generation of alumni?

Coach, how many die hard fans do you think we have? Not everyone that likes football likes basketball? I'll guess we have 3,000 die hard fans. Your idea of a die hard fan and mine may differ. But I would imagine many of those 3,000 football die hards who can show up for the bb games do? I'm guessing though but so what? That's not the problem. The problem is the same as for football. Until we win on a consistent basis and make some noise in the press people around Denton will find something else to do on game nights during the bb season. I saw much larger crowds at the SP when I was in school against far lesser known teams because our product was exciting and we were winning in conference. And if my memory serves me right two or maybe three of those seasons in the late 80's the team would start out 0-7 or something crazy like that. But there was just something that brought the crowds out once January got there because we all knew we had a chance.

I'll never forget Rob Coffey's...DEION HUNNNNNTTTEEERR FOR THREEEEEEE!!!!.

This arguement is rediculous. It can be made for our softball team and girls soccer as well. But I again ask those pointing(and yes, your pointing) to point to yourselves or rather our new generation of future alumni. How many road games have the current basketball student diehards been to? Very few if any. If you can't get behind your team and travel to an away game once in a while while your in school you certainly won't do it once you live away from Denton later on in life?

By the way, I told NTfan23 in the chat that the blowout tonight won't even get a whisper on the local news. I watched 5 and 8 at 10 p.m. and nothing. Not even a score.

Rick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I see our friends at Baylor made that winless season list..... 0-17 in 1945.

We beat UT tonight 103 to 44...... unfortunately it was UTPB in their first season of basketball.

When I was at UNT in the mid '60 we got a more lot attention than today.. we were playing Cincinnati, Louisville, Wichita State, and and lot of top 10 teams. Games were fun and you had be there early if you wanted a seat.. the games then were in the old Mens gym... called The Pit or Snake Pit. UNT had their best winning years in the 70's under Blakely when we won 20+ for 3 or more years. In fact we had the best 3 year winning percentage in the NCAA during that period. Only 24 teams made the NCAA playoffs and we failed to get the recognition we would get today...

Edited February 15, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Coach]

I think it's awesome you were Eppy and went to the away games. Now, don't hold it over everyone's head.

Not everyone that likes football likes basketball?

No, not everyone likes all sports.

Men's basketball has great relevance, like it or not, because the two "money" sports are football and men's hoops. Those are the two most visible aspects of almost any University. Pretending otherwise is ignoring the facts.

You have made it pretty clear that you do not like basketball. That is fine. It is also clear that WifeAintHotSoIHaveToMakeUpForItWithANerdyScreenName doesn't like hoops either. That is fine too.

With that being said, there is NO REASON to talk down on and bash those that DO. You have done it to several people now in the last few months.

If you are gonna sit it out when it comes to supporting hoops, then go right ahead, but don't throw in your negative opnion about those that do and trying to be proactive about it.

You want to know the problem with NT athletics?

I feel I can "call out" the coaching when we lose like we have regardless of my level of support for the BB team.

That's right. No need to support the program in any way, just bitch about it on the internet! We are among the best in the nation about whining and not backing it up.

THAT attitude RIGHT there, W2HFU, is where this quote came from:

"Any complacency by administration toward medicore basketball would only reflect the sentiment of the fan base."

Why should the administration care if the team is barely above .500? Nobody backs up the program, so why should it warrant their attention?

Rick, I know you have backed it up with gameday aspects of the football season. If that's all you can do, then that's all anyone can ask. But please don't encourage the attitude displayed by the quote above and rip those that use their resources- no matter how limited- on other things besides football.

Edited February 15, 2005 by Coach

[Guest e-bone]

If you can't get behind your team and travel to an away game once in a while while your in school you certainly won't do it once you live away from Denton later on in life?

Aren't you the one who always brings up how many road games you went to, and yet you don't come to basketball games even though you are "later on in life" and away from Denton? I guess that kind of blows your theory there.

[FirefightnRick]

Coach,

I think it's awesome you were Eppy and went to the away games. Now, don't hold it over everyone's head.

What the...? I don't see what my activities in the past have to do with this thread and don't believe I have held it over anyone's head either? And it's confusing how those alumni who regularly post, but do not post as often on the bb board, can be lumped into the "not supportive of basketball crowd", but then when I mention our current students not showing up I'm then holding it over everyone's head? Did I describe that right?

Not everyone that likes football likes basketball?

No, not everyone likes all sports.

Men's basketball has great relevance, like it or not,

Show me where I said it didn't have great relevance and show me where I said I didn't like Men's basketball?

You have made it pretty clear that you do not like basketball.

Again, what the...? Show me where I said I don't like basketball? Where are you coming up with this? Try some Cuervo, it takes the edge off.

With that being said, there is NO REASON to talk down on and bash those that DO. You have done it to several people now in the last few months.

If you are gonna sit it out when it comes to supporting hoops, then go right ahead, but don't throw in your negative opnion about those that do and trying to be proactive about it.

Again, I have no idea what in hell your talking about. I've only defended myself and other alumni when people generalize and criticise some stupid idea that we do not support our university as others think we should because we do not attend every home basketball game? Who in hell gives you or the others the right to judge me or any other alumn in how we support the program? Besides, I didn't even start it. Surely if I started to criticise you or someone you have known for years about your level of support, you would defend yourself and them as well? And your idea that I'm "sitting it out" is dillusional at best. Again, where do you come up with this?

And I can't speak for all of what WIFE stated, just that he asked a question about how does our facility match up with our opponents and he gets jumped on that he doesn't even know what ours looks like? He should support as best he can. He didn't go to games that much in the past while he was in school, he's admitted to that but now he does? Who in hell cares which games he goes to just as long as he's going to the ones he can, is all I'm saying. Your preaching to the wrong choir!

ebone

Aren't you the one who always brings up how many road games you went to, and yet you don't come to basketball games even though you are "later on in life" and away from Denton? I guess that kind of blows your theory there.

Again, another generalization. I have brought it up twice now, not "ALWAYS". And I have done so in defense of current students criciticizing supportive, money donating alumni for not attending basketball games. And how do you know how many basketball games I have attended? I didn't realize there was an FFR meter at the SuperPit? I'm honored.

Speaking of meters, one of my last projects before I graduated was to build a giant, lighted noise meter. Back then, the Super Pit got pretty damn loud at times. Some of the other programs such as New Mexico and UNLV at the time had these and it encouraged their crowds pretty good. I had the plans and material but lost contact with the EE from Dallas that was to build it. I had Super Pit officials ready to agree that we could hang it off to the side in the southeast corner over the Talon section. Like the scoreboard that was located in the center over the floor at the time, it could be raised or lowered as needed. It's not too late for this as I see there is a need now and I don't think there is one in Texas still? Possibly at Tech? We just need to find someone good with wiring up the circuitry as the materials were fairly inexpensive?

Seriously though, not that I owe anyone here an explaination nor does anyone else for that matter, but if there was anyway I could convince my wife into moving to Denton then I'd be there every night the doors were open. Of course, she say's that would be the exact problem and that I would never be home if that were to happen so we're staying put for now. What's a Mean Green fanatic to do?

Rick

[meanrob]

"We could be easlily 15-7 or 16-6 right now"

Not really. We are what we are. We've lost one game on a last second shot so please explain how we could be improved by that much.

There are no excuses for this basketball program. I'm not expecting Duke but 4-7 in Sun Belt play??? No excuses for a fourth year coach with no injuries and a very easy non-conf schedule.

[Coach]

I don't see what my activities in the past have to do with this thread and don't believe I have held it over anyone's head either?

You know what I am talking about and anyone else who frequents the board does too. Twice this basketball season you have got sensitive when someone actually starts holding people accountable for the state of our basketball program and you have started a new thread about the 1988 season. One, you described the Utah sunrise and the other you asked how many away games everyone has attended. No reason to play dumb, you know what the intentions of that were, and that is called holding it over someone's head.

Show me where I said I don't like basketball? Where are you coming up with this? Try some Cuervo, it takes the edge off.

You don't have to say specifically "I don't like basketball". Like I said, you have made that clear. And I am not the only one to catch on to this, so please don't single me out and make it look like it was something I have dreamed up. Your comments on here have made me think you don't like basketball for years, and this season you have been even more outspoken.

He should support as best he can. He didn't go to games that much in the past while he was in school, he's admitted to that but now he does?

I'm pretty sure he dodged the direct question about it that I asked him and then was let off the hook when you jumped in and told him not to worry because anyone that asks that has a personal problem. He had said that he is taking initiative and supporting the program, but when pressed for how, the subject was changed. Do we really think that whining on the internet is "initiative" or "support"? I knew our fans were cheap, but that cheap?

I feel I can "call out" the coaching when we lose like we have regardless of my level of support for the BB team.

That is the mentality of too many of our fans. All bitching with no accountability.

No, I don't go to the volleyball games, but you don't see me starting a thread asking how long the coach will be around either. Our fans have it way too easy. They don't do what they can, and if anyone tries to hold them accountable, people like you stick up for them. Anyone can make up excuses all day about why it's just impossible to go to games, but like I said, you can find time for the things you WANT to find time for.

FFR, you can laugh this off as me being on "edge", but it isn't the first conversation like this you have had in the last few months and maybe that should tell you something. It should say that there are some young NT basketball fans that are just as just as passionate about the hardweood as the gridiron. And rather than encourage that on these boards, every time you have talked down, personally taken shots at, and argued with them.

Look at my signature. If you have done all you can about that sad state of our hoops program, then that's all anyone can ask. If not, then I guess continue to argue about nothing and maybe it will take the focus off that.

If someone feels uncomfortbale because of my signature...GOOD.

Edited February 15, 2005 by Coach

[CMJ]

Awesome signature Coach. Our basketball attendance always got my goat as a student.

And yes - I know I haven't been to a game since 2001. I have a decent reason though.

[SUMG]

I have to side with our younger fans on this one. All they are trying to do, is to encourage fans to attend home basketball games. Is that such a sin? I do realize that on this board, any encouragement of fans to get involved (attend games of different sports, join the Mean Green Club) is looked upon as being judgemental. Only at North Texas, would that be judgemental.

If you don't like basketball.....that's fine. But then, don't post your thoughts on a basketball board discussing basketball issues. You should leave those discussions to those who do love the game.

Man cannot live on bread alone. And this particular man, needs more than football.

[FirefightnRick]

FFR, you can laugh this off as me being on "edge", but it isn't the first conversation like this you have had in the last few months and maybe that should tell you something. It should say that there are some young NT basketball fans that are just as just as passionate about the hardweood as the gridiron. And rather than encourage that on these boards, every time you have talked down, personally taken shots at, and argued with them.

This is a damn lie and just as I thought, you cannot show where I have said I don't like basketball or held anything over anyone's head. And yes, I'm glad there are a few passionate students that love our program but your generalizing, taking what I have typed and placed it as you want to in order to argue with me. You don't know my level of support for the basketball team as you don't know anyone elses. You and a couple of the others took my tongue in cheek remark two months ago about "It's not basketball season yet?", which GreenBat had to freakin point out to you as being sarcastic, and turned everything I have posted into "FFR hates basketball", which couldn't be further from the truth.

And get this,... get this. Anytime you criticise someone on this board about anything, they are more than likely going to defend themselves. It doesn't mean they don't like basketball or football or softball or soccer, and it doesn't mean they dislike you or anyone else! Does that read plain enough for you?

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

I have to side with our younger fans on this one. All they are trying to do, is to encourage fans to attend home basketball games. Is that such a sin? I do realize that on this board, any encouragement of fans to get involved (attend games of different sports, join the Mean Green Club) is looked upon as being judgemental. Only at North Texas, would that be judgemental.

If you don't like basketball.....that's fine. But then, don't post your thoughts on a basketball board discussing basketball issues. You should leave those discussions to those who do love the game.

Man cannot live on bread alone. And this particular man, needs more than football.

John,

I have to agree with you here. They are trying to encourage fans to come to the games and that is great, but let me remind you this entire thing with me and the others started by JayDub's post on the FOOTBALL board about how sick he is of all the other topics we were all discussing..ON THE FOOTBALL BOARD other than what JayDub wanted us to talk about. Then the same thread turned into a personal attack on Jim Plummer and why or why not can he make the basketball games and that is when I stepped in to defend him and other alumni like you and myself who live more than an hour away from Denton.

I would have loved to have seen some of your more witty remarks back at them had they attacked you instead. That would have made for some funny shiz!

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

MeanRob

We could be easlily 15-7 or 16-6 right now"

Not really. We are what we are. We've lost one game on a last second shot so please explain how we could be improved by that much.

There are no excuses for this basketball program. I'm not expecting Duke but 4-7 in Sun Belt play??? No excuses for a fourth year coach with no injuries and a very easy non-conf schedule.

Easy Rob, your treading on thin ice.

Rick

[Guest e-bone]

MeanRob

Easy Rob, your treading on thin ice.

Rick

Thanks for giving us an example of your love for NT basketball. You don't have to come out and directly say it, but your veiled insults of the basketball team and the basketball fans say all that needs to be said.

[Coach]

This is a damn lie and just as I thought, you cannot show where I have said I don't like basketball or held anything over anyone's head. And yes, I'm glad there are a few passionate students that love our program but your generalizing, taking what I have typed and placed it as you want to in order to argue with me. You don't know my level of support for the basketball team as you don't know anyone elses. You and a couple of the others took my tongue in cheek remark two months ago about "It's not basketball season yet?", which GreenBat had to freakin point out to you as being sarcastic, and turned everything I have posted into "FFR hates basketball", which couldn't be further from the truth.

And get this,... get this. Anytime you criticise someone on this board about anything, they are more than likely going to defend themselves. It doesn't mean they don't like basketball or football or softball or soccer, and it doesn't mean they dislike you or anyone else! Does that read plain enough for you?

Rick

You brought yourself into this thread, plese don't spin it like I called you out. W2HFU said he took initiative and supported the team, I asked him how other than this sparkling thread and you rushed to his defense.

You want to know how you hold your days as Eppy over everyone's head to show they could never support the team as well as you did in 88 and how you are immune from contributing anything to the program? Fine.

For all the GREAT (but not as great as FFR) hoops fans

Look how many road trips I went on...

Now, I would appreciate the liar comment to be taken back.

SUMG is right...we must be the only school where encouraging fans to go to games is a sin that gets you ripped apart. Sad. Look out Savannah State!