How long are they are coaches?

[WIFE2HOT4U]

Just thinking that with our BB Facility (It is nice, right?) why do we not have winning teams?

COACHING? RECRUITING?

[Guest e-bone]

Lack of support ranks pretty high up on the list. When alums don't even know if our basketball arena is nice or not, that is not a good sign of how much they support the basketball programs.

[UNTLifer]

Lack of support ranks pretty high up on the list. When alums don't even know if our basketball arena is nice or not, that is not a good sign of how much they support the basketball programs.

Lack of support does not cause a team to lose by 50 pts. on fall behind 19-1 to start a game. Besides, 3,000+ shows that attendance is improving despite the poor performances of late.

Slinker has been here too long and has proven to be a relatively good recruiter, but doesn't seem to produce much with the talent once it arrives. I think it is time for her to go. 16+ seasons with her record is unheard of.

JJ is somewhat of an enigma to me. I want to support him and see if he can revive this program from the Trilli era, but the performances of late, our record this year despite a relatively forgiving schedule is puzzling. I observe an athletic team without much court discipline. This is a direct reflection on the coach.

e-bone, I appreciate your enthusiasm and support for the b-ball games, but your constant finger pointing at alums that you don't think properly support these programs is tiring and does more harm than good.

[El Paso Eagle]

This is not something you blame on lack of support- we need to quit accepting that statement as a blanket reason when any NT team does not perform. This is not a case where we are facing Top 10 teams and we do not have the athletes or talent to compete. Bottom line is we are not performing on the court and ultimately (and I realize this is a stretch for us) we need to hold the coaches accountable.

[Guest e-bone]

Lack of support does not cause a team to lose by 50 pts. on fall behind 19-1 to start a game. Besides, 3,000+ shows that attendance is improving despite the poor performances of late.

Slinker has been here too long and has proven to be a relatively good recruiter, but doesn't seem to produce much with the talent once it arrives. I think it is time for her to go. 16+ seasons with her record is unheard of.

JJ is somewhat of an enigma to me. I want to support him and see if he can revive this program from the Trilli era, but the performances of late, our record this year despite a relatively forgiving schedule is puzzling. I observe an athletic team without much court discipline. This is a direct reflection on the coach.

e-bone, I appreciate your enthusiasm and support for the b-ball games, but your constant finger pointing at alums that you don't think properly support these programs is tiring and does more harm than good.

He left himself wide open by asking if the SuperPit is nice. It's hard to not get a little mad when someone who doesn't know if the SuperPit is a nice basketball arena questions the coaches. Show up to some games, support the teams, then ask why the teams have underperformed. Don't just jump on the dog pile of people who sit at their computers 30 miles away from Denton and either completely refuse to acknowledge the basketball teams' existence until it comes time to place blame as to why we couldn't get accepted to a better conference, or bash the basketball teams while not giving the slight effort to attempt to make a game occasionally.

The one crowd of 3,000 was impressive, but it is sad when a crowd that is inflated by a pregame activity and still only fills a third of the arena is considered impressive. Support from both students and alumni should be much higher, but it is especially hard to overlook the people who claim to be such great supporters of the school and athletics when they only care about a single sport. I'm sorry if this hits a little close to home for some of you and you think I am pointing a finger at you, but you are the people who are aware of what is going on and still don't care.

As for the coaches I think that firing a coach during a season, especially when the team has a winning record is the worst thing you can do for the team. Anyone with any kind of experience playing or following basketball knows that there are still enough games left in the season for the men to turn things around, especially with having only one more game on the road. Seasons are full of ups and downs, and all it takes is for a team to get going at the right time and they are in the NCAA tournament. If this team can starting clicking we can make a run and beat anyone in the Belt.

The women are tied for 1st in the West, so I don't see too much to complain about them this season. And I believe that a coach should only be judged in season for how his or her team has played during the season. If the team falls apart then of course what happened in previous seasons will be taken into account, but I'm not going to bash a coach is who tied for 1st in her division for what happened years ago.

[GrayEagle]

I want more than anything for JJ to succeed. He and I grew up in the same town (DeRidder, LA) but at different times. Johnny was born there while I was born in Texas and moved there before the second grade. I still have an affinity for DeRidderites whether they were from my era or not.

But, I am becoming more and more concerned of late. Poor shooting percentages are usually an indication of poor discipline and lack of teamwork. I hope that JJ can find a way to right the ship. He has the knowledge and experience to know what should work and maybe he'll find it and it will make him a better coach.

Tina Slinker, while a fine human being, doesn't have it as a head coach. Her fifteen years of mediocrity have proved that. It's time to see if someone else can get the job done.

[Guest e-bone]

This is not something you blame on lack of support- we need to quit accepting that statement as a blanket reason when any NT team does not perform.

I hope you aren't trying to say that is what I said.

[El Paso Eagle]

I hope you aren't trying to say that is what I said.

[UNTLifer]

ebone, not once did I state that we should fire the coach in the middle of the season, but they must be more accountable for the performance, or lack there of, of their teams. Slinkers teams, save a few years when Jalie Mitchell and Rosalyn Reades were here, have continually completed a season with a losing record. Think it is odd that the athletic webpage doesn't show her career record at NT?

JJ, I personally like him, but am starting to wonder about his ability to lead this team. Sure we have a winning record this year, but who have we really beat? I just don't believe that the other Sunbelt teams have that much more talent than we do.

Speaking of the Super Pit, it is the best facility in the Metroplex and probably only ranks behind a few in the state. We should be able to recruit better regarding the education NT provides, the facility and the area we are located. The recruiting is getting better, but their performances are ho-hum at this point. I do hope they can turn the season around and go in to the conference tournament on a positive note, but things don't look good right now.

I applaud you for your dedication to the bball cause, don't get me wrong. I just get tired of the constant rant against alumni that don't turn out for the games. The responsibilities of life, job, wife, children, etc..., are much more than the responsibilities of a student. You may not understand this now, but you will after graduation. Also, attending 15 home games including some during the week is a much larger committment than 5 or 6 home football games.

[UNT_92_Fan]

So making EVERY home game....EVERYTIME there is one on a saturday is that much easier than coming to a basketball game on any other saturday...I can understand not coming during the week...hell i am a student and it is hard for me to go to some of them....but dont give me the excuse that because you're older and married and have kids that making a game in the winter is that much harder than making one in the fall....does married Life get harder during the winter.... I am a full time student, Senior level classes, radio production projects out the backside, three jobs....it is just as hard for me i promise....i just sounded like a prick...but it makes sense...how it is easier to make an appearance at 6 home football games on a saurday but not come to many...if any....saturday basketball games

sorry if that sounded rude but i am just as tired of seeing and getting ribbed for trying to do something...I am just as tired of that as you are of seeing alumni 'gettin the finger pointed at them'....everyone and their mom knows this school supports football...but wonders why our program doesnt move up to a bigger and better conference....it falls in the super pit...If i was commish of CUSA and i saw the budding football program getting all this support and this and that...but then i attended a basketball game that was dead empty WHEN the team (win or lose) has a winning record and is looking better than they have in MY few years here, I would look elsewhere too.......understandable that they aren't playing to their top potential right now but teams go through slumps....they will fight out of it!

I guess the students shouldnt be so mad about this coaching talk, because the same thing goes on in football....lose a few...fire dickey...(i know you didn't say anything about firing) so maybe just maybe ebone....we might be getting somewhere here with the endless battle

Sorry the rant...and for sounding like an asshole...but today is a bad day....my apologies

Edited February 11, 2005 by UNT_92_Fan

[UNTSportsGuy]

This is JJ fourth season, and he is still playing with players that aren't "his" players. I don't think his firing would help basketball program, and when you fire someone you better have a better replacement ready. I was very impressed with the way the team played at Alabama, and I believe that JJ or whoever is in charge of the scheduel for the next few years will get some big names on the list. Playing teams like Alabama and Texas are great for exposure (maybe not the Texas defeat), but the Alabama game is great for the program. If he can continue to get good recruits and get exposure for the program, I don't have any issue with him being the head basketball coach. I feel that he is moving the program in the right direction, is this team not 100 percent better than when he took over?

[GrandGreen]

As an old alumni, who has 35+ years of following mean green basketball, I don't understand some of the posts pointing fingers. What purpose does that serve? How about 15,000 students that live within 5 minutes of the superpit? I will once again go on my tirade about why do the games start at 7:00 on weekdays? I have season tickets to both men and women, and I have made I think 3 weekday games this year. It is just not worth 2 hours in bascially stalled traffic to get to a basketball game from the metroplex. Also the practice of having the women and men play at the same time though not as much this year has to hurt attendence for both.

I do wish the students and most of the alumni were as lucky as I was to be a student in the Joe Hamilton, Crest Whitaker, Lee Winfield MIssouri Valley days when the snakepit was rocking and you had to make an effort just to get a ticket for the game. It had to be as good a basketball experience as there ever was available to see the nation's best teams get clobbered in the loudest venue in college basketball at the time.

I appaud anyone's efforts trying to improve the NT basketball experience. Since leaving the MVC interest has slowly declined and Trilli just about killed what little interest there was in the program. Slinkers programs have been medicore at best. Her only real success was based on her recruitment of the heart of a championship AAU team that included Reades, Mitchell, and Thomas. That class accounted for 4 of 5 of Slinker's winning seasons in sixteen years. In fairness the women's teams do play a very tough oc schedule but have also a losing conference record.

JJ's team has only two recruits from Trilli's era, Barnett and Hopkins. I don't think any reasonable person would think that they are inferior to JJ's own recruits. JJ is certainly better than Trilli but in reality who would not be. I still think JJ is a good bench coach but I fail to see how he gained his reputation as a great recruiter.

[SUMG]

If being stuck with Trilli's players is such an awful thing....how come JJ's best year (yet) was his first team? (which had all Trilli players except for Jermaine Green and Lee Green, I think).

This team got me excited early in the year. The wins over Lamar and UNC-W at home....were quality wins. But, in conference we have been abysmal. We are 2-5 in our last 7 games.

Looking ahead....I see us losing to ULL (road game); Denver and WKU (home games).

We'll probably beat S Bama, UNO and UT-Peanut Butter. (all at home)

If that's the case....we'd be 14-13 for the regular season, a season in which we had 15 home games, and a lot of cupcakes on the schedule. Also, if that scenario works out, we'd finish 6-9 in conference. I don't know if 6-9 in the West Division will be enough for us to be the #3 seed or not. If we're not the #3 seed, we'd have to win 4 games to win the SBC tourney, not three.

Anyway, this team can turn it around. Beating ULL, WKU or Denver would be big starts toward that. I hope we can do it.

GMG!

[eulesseagle]

Give JJ a chance....because....look at Coach Dickey....eveyone wanted to fire him after his 4th season and he might have gone except for the come from behind victory over NMSU.

I have seen too many really good North Texas coaches get canned and some of the not so good coaches linger on. In my opionion, Trilli was not all that bad except he let go all the players when he got here and gave us an unbelievable "ball busting" schedule that looked great on paper but got us killed on the court and ended up loosing some of our best player to other schools. Those schedules had to be demoralizing to the player to get the crap beat out of them everytime they steped on the court.

Give JJ a chance to get the players here. He is winning but not dominating yet.

I too enjoyed the years watching Whitiker, Hamilton, Mort Frayley etc play. Enjoyed it more in the old snake pit where the noise level was unbelievable with all the yelling and stomping of the feet on those old wooden bleachers. More so when the students would throw the rubber snakes onto the floor during timeouts.

[mad dog]

This really looks like the same argument I hear in the football forums:

Why is the attendance low?

Guys, it all takes time, and usually much more of it than we'd prefer. Some of you older folks will recognize that sometimes, in life, the only way you can make something happen is 1) do what you can do, and 2) wait. Some of us younger guys are understandably a bit confused and frustrated when, in the 'quick fix' world that has been presented to us, nothing we do seems to have any bit of effect.

To get where we all want to go is not something that can be accomplished overnight. You have to realize that, in the perfect situation, with flawless seasons filled with memorable moments, low ticket prices, ubiquitous and creative advertising, the time it takes for us to get to packed Super Pits will still be measured in years, not in months or weeks.

One of the most frustrating things I've learned in life so far is that sometimes you can do everything right, with all the right intentions, and still not end up getting what you want.

So what happens when, as humans, we screw something up? Let's say we drop a "gimme" game at home. Let's say we lose our star player. Let's say that we end up with a losing record. That "best case" timeframe of a couple of years might tack on a few more.

But there is hope here.

My mother, who works at a high school in Carrollton, hears more and more non-music kids "thinking about UNT," and not just because they couldn't get into UT or A&M. Our business school, our Emergency Management program, our Engineering program; all of them are starting to get noticed. We are starting to get kids here who aren't here for a "community college" experience, who expect an education and college experience commensurate to Tech, A&M, or UT.

I was met with a little shock when I asked a new student from Arkansas what he was studying. He told me that he had heard about our college of education and wanted to get a degree from here. Usually, kids from further away than Texas are either here for the music school or are exchange students. To get non- music undergraduates here from out of state, solely on our University's reputation, is HUGE.

What does this have to do with basketball? Rhetorically, have any of you been to games in the past five years? Have you noticed the change in attendance/volume of the crowd? I'm the who went to as many basketball games in the first week of this year's season than I did in four undergraduate years, and I was shocked to see literally thousands of people in attendance. I guarantee you, none of the people in the stands are "community college" minded guys. They aren't here because they couldn't afford someplace else, or because UNT was the only place they could get in. It is hard to be proud of a place you were more or less FORCED to go. These people are at UNT because they had a choice, and picked here.

The length of time between now and what we want is contingent upon too many factors for me to follow, much less understand. Wins, losses, moments, down to individual experiences, there are FAR too many variables. No one can predict when it will come, but I can tell you when it won't.

It won't happen this year. It won't happen next year. It probably won't happen the year after that. Until we cycle out every person who wants the old UNT paradigm, assuming that's even possible, we'll be stuck with unsatisfactory attendance. And what happens then, when we actually get the attendance we're looking for? There will be something else that we want.

If you keep looking at tomorrow, you'll entirely miss today. Wishing for better things is admirable, normal, and, well, human. But you might do well to enjoy how far we have come, because we certainly could do worse.

[WIFE2HOT4U]

My Commencement was in the Super Pit, along with games I have attended, so I think it is nice.

When I said "Right?” I meant compared to the other schools we compete against in regards to recruiting.

I admit I don't support the BB team like I do the F-ball team, I 'm a Texan and this is f-ball country.......IMHO

But much like the Mavs, winning keeps me watching and going to games!

When we get blown out like the last game, makes me wonder what’s going on…….

Heck, wasn’t the UT game more respectable than this one?

[SUMG]

This really looks like the same argument I hear in the football forums:

Why is the attendance low?

Guys, it all takes time, and usually much more of it than we'd prefer.  Some of you older folks will recognize that sometimes, in life, the only way you can make something happen is 1) do what you can do, and 2) wait.  Some of us younger guys are understandably a bit confused and frustrated when, in the 'quick fix' world that has been presented to us, nothing we do seems to have any bit of effect.

To get where we all want to go is not something that can be accomplished overnight.  You have to realize that, in the perfect situation, with flawless seasons filled with memorable moments, low ticket prices, ubiquitous and creative advertising, the time it takes for us to get to packed Super Pits will still be measured in years, not in months or weeks.

One of the most frustrating things I've learned in life so far is that sometimes you can do everything right, with all the right intentions, and still not end up getting what you want.

So what happens when, as humans, we screw something up?  Let's say we drop a "gimme" game at home.  Let's say we lose our star player.  Let's say that we end up with a losing record.  That "best case" timeframe of a couple of years might tack on a few more.

But there is hope here.

My mother, who works at a high school in Carrollton, hears more and more non-music kids "thinking about UNT," and not just because they couldn't get into UT or A&M.  Our business school, our Emergency Management program, our Engineering program; all of them are starting to get noticed.  We are starting to get kids here who aren't here for a "community college" experience, who expect an education and college experience commensurate to Tech, A&M, or UT. 

I was met with a little shock when I asked a new student from Arkansas what he was studying.  He told me that he had heard about our college of education and wanted to get a degree from here.  Usually, kids from further away than Texas are either here for the music school or are exchange students.  To get non- music undergraduates here from out of state, solely on our University's reputation, is HUGE.

What does this have to do with basketball?  Rhetorically, have any of you been to games in the past five years?  Have you noticed the change in attendance/volume of the crowd?  I'm the who went to as many basketball games in the first week of this year's season than I did in four undergraduate years, and I was shocked to see literally thousands of people in attendance.  I guarantee you, none of the people in the stands are "community college" minded guys.  They aren't here because they couldn't afford someplace else, or because UNT was the only place they could get in.  It is hard to be proud of a place you were more or less FORCED to go.  These people are at UNT because they had a choice, and picked here.

The length of time between now and what we want is contingent upon too many factors for me to follow, much less understand.  Wins, losses, moments, down to individual experiences, there are FAR too many variables.  No one can predict when it will come, but I can tell you when it won't.

It won't happen this year.  It won't happen next year.  It probably won't happen the year after that.  Until we cycle out every person who wants the old UNT paradigm, assuming that's even possible, we'll be stuck with unsatisfactory attendance.  And what happens then, when we actually get the attendance we're looking for?  There will be something else that we want.

If you keep looking at tomorrow, you'll entirely miss today.  Wishing for better things is admirable, normal, and, well, human.  But you might do well to enjoy how far we have come, because we certainly could do worse.

Thanks for the sermon. When is the offering going to be taken up?

[mad dog]

-deleted-

Edited February 11, 2005 by illuvius32

[WIFE2HOT4U]

UNT_92_Fan........

You have a point about the Married thing in regards to going to games when comparing yourself to married folks..... 3 jobs, etc.

But consider this:

http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/factfil...ducation&list=4

Over 75% of students only work part time or not at all............

Bottom line, 7pm games are almost impossible for me to make from Dallas.

Get off work @ 5pm, pick up Daughter: 5:45 then 1.5 hrs of traffic….you do the math.

It is possible on occasion, and I go occasionally!

Trust me, I worked p-time in college and it is much easier (In terms of time management) than having a family and Hotwife…..LOL

I admire your ability to take on all that responsibility and your transition into the “Real World” will be much easier than mine.

[WIFE2HOT4U]

oops, under 75%...

[UNTSportsGuy]

Maybe we could come close to filling the lower level when Tech comes in next year... <_

[Guest e-bone]

I keep seeing people say that I am "pointing fingers" at all alumni for not supporting the basketball teams. Like I have said before(in this thread even), I wish that both student and alumni support were much better. What I'm trying to get across is that I absolutely cannot understand why people who claim to be such great supporters of the University and athletics and who have attended every home football game for so and so years can't come out to the SuperPit from time to time. I'm not saying they have to come to every game as I understand that it might not be possible to make many weeknight games. But if you can find time to spend all day Saturday during the Fall to support the football team, why is it such a hard thing to spend part of Saturday evening supporting the basketball teams?

I wish that every student who lived in Denton would come to every home basketball game, but most students aren't aware of the basketball teams. You can't expect people who don't know when games are to go to games. Most students aren't going to take the initiative to get on the website and find out when the next home game is, and there isn't enough promotion on campus to make students aware of what is going on. The people who visit this website and others who support athletics cannot say the same, however. But still you see people saying "Well this is Texas and football is king", and in February saying "When does basketball season start, har har har", and the like, which is mindboggling. Many would rather sit at their computer on a Saturday night and beat the numerous dead horses that inhabit the football board rather than make the not so long drive to Denton to see the basketball teams play. My parents do it, my brother does it, people who aren't the supposed die-hards that many here claim to be do it. That is why I cannot understand why people who seem to want NT athletics to succeed just don't care about anything other than football.

[Coach]

Any complacency by administration toward medicore basketball would only reflect the sentiment of the fan base.

[Green Grenade II]

If being stuck with Trilli's players is such an awful thing....how come JJ's best year (yet) was his first team? (which had all Trilli players except for Jermaine Green and Lee Green, I think).

This team got me excited early in the year. The wins over Lamar and UNC-W at home....were quality wins. But, in conference we have been abysmal. We are 2-5 in our last 7 games.

Looking ahead....I see us losing to ULL (road game); Denver and WKU (home games).

We'll probably beat S Bama, UNO and UT-Peanut Butter. (all at home)

If that's the case....we'd be 14-13 for the regular season, a season in which we had 15 home games, and a lot of cupcakes on the schedule. Also, if that scenario works out, we'd finish 6-9 in conference. I don't know if 6-9 in the West Division will be enough for us to be the #3 seed or not. If we're not the #3 seed, we'd have to win 4 games to win the SBC tourney, not three.

Anyway, this team can turn it around. Beating ULL, WKU or Denver would be big starts toward that. I hope we can do it.

GMG!

Margie loves cupcakes and Peanut Butter, so I'm inviting her to go two the UT-Peanut Butter game. aside from the pep band, we may be the only two there! SUMG, you are almost as entertaining as PlummMeanGreen! His jokes are great, but they are way too long, and when he gets to the punch line, his bungy cord rips him back to Weatherford!

[WIFE2HOT4U]

I don't claim to be a die-hard!

Nice try though.....

Look, even in 98 or so when I was a student I never really heard about the BB team.....

I barely heard about the f-ball team and that was due to Fraternity involvement.

I think "some people" should be grateful Alumni like me/others are taking the initiative to try to be involved and supportive...........