Defending Randy Moss' moonshot

[Coach]

So, to find out...

Step 1) Ask Tony Dungy

Step 2) Dismiss what Dungy says.

Step 3) Ask drunken Packer fans. Take response as gospel truth.

Step 4) Argue on the internet.

Nobody was condoning Moss' action, Monkeypox. I think that everyone agrees it was pretty distasteful and uncalled for. The issue is that it seems pretty clear to everyone but you that the Packer fans had mooned the Viking bus and this was Moss' juvenile reaction. You seem convinced this is a vast network of lies to lessen what Moss did.

Edited January 12, 2005 by Coach

[UNTFan23]

Why defend Randy Moss? Why? Because the Cheese heads up there allegedly moon the visiting team's bus?! There are better things to defend out there ... like baby-eating as an amateur sport.

Sorry folks, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[Monkeypox]

Step 3) Ask drunken Packer fans.  Take response as gospel truth.

Step 4) Argue on the internet.

Nobody was condoning Moss' action, Monkeypox.  I think that everyone agrees it was pretty distasteful and uncalled for.  The issue is that it seems pretty clear to everyone but you that the Packer fans had mooned the Viking bus and this was Moss' juvenile reaction.  You seem convinced this is a vast network of lies to lessen what Moss did.

So I should take a single man (Dungy's) word as gospel truth, instead.

I see.

I never took the Packer fans' word as gospel truth, by the by. The thing that makes me doubt Dungy most is that, IN DECADES, this is the FIRST mentioning of such a "tradition." It never came up when he was in the NFC Central. Not in the media, not anywhere.

But I like how you guys project things like accusing Moss of baby-eating or a vast conspiracy.

More evidence points to Dungy being full of it than Moss getting mooned for years and years and thus suffering severe emotional trauma (as long as we're projecting), causing him to react in such an uncharacteristically juvenile manner.

The title of the thread is "defending Moss... blah blah blah."

It IS a defense and it IS intended to lessen what Moss did.

Edited January 12, 2005 by Monkeypox

[Coach]

I'm not defending what Moss did, I have made that clear.

I do not believe that Tony Dungy and Mike Tice outright lied to cover for him either.

I think that the Packers fans did do that, and it probably goes on in other places too.

That does not lessen what Moss did, and he is a punk that needs to grow up.

I was having fun with it, but now I officially have "fake moon" tired head.

SUMG, the tradition was carried on.

Edited January 12, 2005 by Coach

[emmitt01]

Here's an HSO. Perhaps, just perhaps, Packer fans should be more worried about their defense that couldn't keep the Vikings out of the endzone...that would prevent any "classless" mooning incidents, would it not? Or, maybe they should worry about their QB throwing 4 interceptions.

You know why T.O. and Nicolette Sheridan are news worthy? Know why Janet Jackson was news worthy? Know why Moss is newsworthy? Because people are willing to rehash their actions ad nauseum and complain for days, and days, and days, and days, and days about how bad they are. Anyone remember the class clown in grade school? No audience, no clown. Am I saying we should ignore what these people do? No, but how bout letting the NFL police their players and refusing to dignify them with our continued attention?

[Guest e-bone]

More evidence points to Dungy being full of it

It is my understanding that Dungy is one of the most highly respected coaches in the NFL, which makes me seriously doubt that he is "full of it" and is lying to cover for a player who isn't even on his team.

[JayDub]

My question is...

Where was this uproar when Denver QB Jake Plummer shot the finger to his own fans in a game earlier this season?

[UNTLifer]

Pizza anyone?

[Guest e-bone]

My question is...

Where was this uproar when Denver QB Jake Plummer shot the finger to his own fans in a game earlier this season?

I was wondering the same thing when that happened. People would be going loopies if Randy Moss or some other "thug" or "punk" flipped off the crowd. Randy did a fake moon for fun and laughs which I don't think was Plummer's intention when he flipped off his own fans behind his head.

[Monkeypox]

I was wondering the same thing when that happened. People would be going loopies if Randy Moss or some other "thug" or "punk" flipped off the crowd. Randy did a fake moon for fun and laughs which I don't think was Plummer's intention when he flipped off his own fans behind his head.

They did basically the same thing.

The biggest differences are:

1) Plummer's bird was caught on camera when he was on the sidelines. Moss did his right in front of the cameras after a TD. The difference in your media/Joe Buck type uproar is that it was barely caught, and people don't often get all excited about something they HEARD about. No reason for an analyst to throw a fit over it then. There's no difference in the actions, as both are obscene gestures, and neither one would be acceptable to me when I take my nephew to a game, regardless of whether or not it was for "fun and laughs" or the person did it out of anger. Now, as I've said, there's no difference in the actions, so one's emotional or moral response to them should be the same... Plummer's Finger= Moss's Moon. The reason there's a difference in the play of the two incidences is that hardly anybody saw Plummer's. That, and there's been more than a few times when players have flipped the bird to fans. Moss will get more play for the novelty of it.

2) Where was this defense of Plummer? No coaches came out and said, "Well, some of the fans in Denver have a tradition of flipping off Jake Plummer, so I understand where it's coming from." Even if there were, there probably wouldn't be people all over the web lining up to defend Plummer (who is, by the way, just as much of an ass as Randy Moss).

And, for the record, once you've been convicted of battery, been kicked out of school for drug use, run over a civil servant, and arrested for beating up your girlfriend, you more than qualify for the title of "thug." When you've done all the detrimental things Randy Moss has done to the Vikings (contact with official, multiple taunting incidents, taking plays off), you've earned the title of "punk." Thus, there's no reason to put those in quotes, as if to point to some unwarranted perception of Randy Moss. He is both a thug and a punk, and deserves every bit of his reputation.

[Guest e-bone]

They did basically the same thing.

The biggest differences are:

1) Plummer's bird was caught on camera when he was on the sidelines. Moss did his right in front of the cameras after a TD. The difference in your media/Joe Buck type uproar is that it was barely caught, and people don't often get all excited about something they HEARD about. No reason for an analyst to throw a fit over it then. There's no difference in the actions, as both are obscene gestures, and neither one would be acceptable to me when I take my nephew to a game, regardless of whether or not it was for "fun and laughs" or the person did it out of anger. Now, as I've said, there's no difference in the actions, so one's emotional or moral response to them should be the same... Plummer's Finger= Moss's Moon. The reason there's a difference in the play of the two incidences is that hardly anybody saw Plummer's. That, and there's been more than a few times when players have flipped the bird to fans. Moss will get more play for the novelty of it.

2) Where was this defense of Plummer? No coaches came out and said, "Well, some of the fans in Denver have a tradition of flipping off Jake Plummer, so I understand where it's coming from." Even if there were, there probably wouldn't be people all over the web lining up to defend Plummer (who is, by the way, just as much of an ass as Randy Moss).

And, for the record, once you've been convicted of battery, been kicked out of school for drug use, run over a civil servant, and arrested for beating up your girlfriend, you more than qualify for the title of "thug." When you've done all the detrimental things Randy Moss has done to the Vikings (contact with official, multiple taunting incidents, taking plays off), you've earned the title of "punk." Thus, there's no reason to put those in quotes, as if to point to some unwarranted perception of Randy Moss. He is both a thug and a punk, and deserves every bit of his reputation.

I'm not going to get into an essay writing contest with you as I really think this whole thing is being overblown and I'm tired of hearing about it. A fake moon does not equal flipping the fans off. Plummer flipped the fans off because he was angry at the fans for booing him. Moss did a fake moon touchdown celebration because it was creative in that it kind of gets back at the Green Bay fans who moon the opposing team's bus. I didn't see the fake moon when it happened, so I didn't hear what the announcers said and that does not factor into my opinion. Anyone who watched ESPN saw Plummer flip off the fans, so it wasn't really this big secret that no one knows about.

[Monkeypox]

A regional Denver game vs. a national playoff game.... huge difference in exposure. In the game vs. on the sidelines... huge difference again.

ANd yes, fake mooning is the same as flipping the bird (in my eyes AND the NFL's). They're both obscene gestures. It doesn't matter what your intentions are.

EDIT: The NFL just fined Moss $10,000, even though this was technically his first offense (As far as obscene gestures).

Now, THIS I totally disagree with. You can't give him a larger fine than something warrants just for perception. It should be $5,000 (the number previously reported).

Edited January 13, 2005 by Monkeypox

[Eagle-96]

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/planetary..._moon_color.jpg

fine me!

Edited January 13, 2005 by Eagle-96

[SUMG]

A regional Denver game vs. a national playoff game.... huge difference in exposure.  In the game vs. on the sidelines... huge difference again.

ANd yes, fake mooning is the same as flipping the bird (in my eyes AND the NFL's).  They're both obscene gestures.  It doesn't matter what your intentions are.

A fake mooning is the same as flipping someone off? Gimme a break. What is evident to me, Monkey Pox, is that you are a huge Packers fan. Would that be correct? Because for the life of me, I can't figure out why 4 days after the game, you're still going on and on about this...........

btw.....One gesture means "f you".......the other just is simulating the dropping and baring of one's rear end: If you think they're both equal..........then I'll stop mooning you when I read one of your posts, and switch to gesture #2.

Edited January 13, 2005 by SUMG

[Monkeypox]

A fake mooning is the same a flipping someone off? Gimme a break. What is evident to me, Monkey Pox, is that you are a huge Packers fan. Would that be correct? Because for the life of me, I can't figure out why 4 days after the game, you're still going on and on about this...........

btw.....One gesture means "f you".......the other just is simulating the dropping and baring of one's rear end: If you think they're both equal..........then I'll stop mooning you when I read one of your posts, and switch to gesture #2.

They are. Sorry, but they're both obscene gestures, and outlined as such by the NFL.

I would put the fake moon the same as grabbing your crotch and flipping the bird. I wouldn't want kids watching any of the above.

I've said it several times in this thread, though. My main problem is with all the people coming to Moss's defense. THAT is what I can't understand.

This isn't a thread about the incident, but about DEFENDING Randy Moss.

For the record, I'm a Cowboys fan, and I follow the Bengals as well (long story).

[SUMG]

They are.  Sorry, but they're both obscene gestures, and outlined as such by the NFL.

I would put the fake moon the same as grabbing your crotch and flipping the bird.  I wouldn't want kids watching any of the above.

I've said it several times in this thread, though.  My main problem is with all the people coming to Moss's defense.  THAT is what I can't understand.

This isn't a thread about the incident, but about DEFENDING Randy Moss.

For the record, I'm a Cowboys fan, and I follow the Bengals as well (long story).

MP.......if you re-read all the above posts.....no one said that they were a huge Randy Moss fan. As a matter of fact, most (like Coach and myself) who defended him on this one incident.....said he was a punk.

I think the incident the week before (where he walked out before game time had expired) was inexcusable.

The only reason I started this thread......was that I was po'ed about Moss doing the fake moon....just like you......UNTIL I read about the Green Bay tradition of mooning the opposing team's bus. Is that true? I don't know......but when I started this thread....it was under the assumption that it was/is a Green Bay tradition.

One more thing: I think Moss is a punk.......but after seeing both of their careers.....the Cowboys would have still gotten more value out of the punk than they have out of Greg Ellis.

[Coach]

I've said it several times in this thread, though. My main problem is with all the people coming to Moss's defense. THAT is what I can't understand.

Then why did you go back and forth with me, when made it clear I was NOT condoning Moss' action, but took issue with your insistance that Tony Dungy lied to cover for a player on another team? Nevermind, I don't want to know why, rhetorical question, just something to think about.

I wouldn't want kids watching any of the above.

Now this made my day. It took four days, but someone finally broke it out.

Please think of the children!

Won't someone please think of the children!

[Monkeypox]

I think the incident the week before (where he walked out before game time had expired) was inexcusable.

The only reason I started this thread......was that I was po'ed about Moss doing the fake moon....just like you......UNTIL I read about the Green Bay tradition of mooning the opposing team's bus. Is that true? I don't know......but when I started this thread....it was under the assumption that it was/is a Green Bay tradition.

One more thing: I think Moss is a punk.......but after seeing both of their careers.....the Cowboys would have still gotten more value out of the punk than they have out of Greg Ellis.

Here are my stances, since everyone in this thread is confused (including me)

1) Fake moon = Crotch grab or Shooting the bird

2) Moss's $10,000 fine is wrong. He should get the same as Plummer.

3) Moss's fake moon is indefensible

4) Walking out on the team is far worse than the fake moon (interesting note on this: weren't they kicking an onside at the time? is Moss not on the hands team?)

5) A LOT of teams passed on Randy Moss because he's a criminal, not just the Cowboys, and the Cowboys were attempting to overcome serious character perceptions at the time. I can say without a doubt, I'm happy with the Ellis pick. I know guys who used to be big Vikings fans, but don't watch anymore because of Moss. Now, don't ask me about any of the other Cowboy picks from that same time period, though.

[Guest e-bone]

ANd yes, fake mooning is the same as flipping the bird (in my eyes AND the NFL's).  They're both obscene gestures.  It doesn't matter what your intentions are.

Well in the eyes of the NFL, Randy Moss's simulated moon was worse than Eric Barton's forearm to Drew Brees' head, so I wouldn't go using how the NFL punishes people as an aid to your argument. Unless you really think that blatantly trying to injure someone is indeed worse than someone simulating a moon.

[Monkeypox]

Well in the eyes of the NFL, Randy Moss's simulated moon was worse than Eric Barton's forearm to Drew Brees' head, so I wouldn't go using how the NFL punishes people as an aid to your argument. Unless you really think that blatantly trying to injure someone is indeed worse than someone simulating a moon.

Yeah, I disagree with a lot of the NFL's rulings (see: $10k for Moss moon), but their classification of the moon as an obscene gesture is spot on.

[UNTFan23]

[Greeneagle87]

The only WR's I wanna see getting a TD is the Cowboys's, noone else, because I want 16-0 next season.

[eagle60]

Greeneagle87, I hope you are not holding your breath and live long enough to see the Cowgirls go 16-0!