We’re not alone

[emmitt01]

[NT93]

It’s way worse than professional free agency.  In the college version, every player is a free agent every year.  It’s such a ridiculous, nonsensical system.  NIL in its current form is bad, but the portal is much worse.  

[DentonStang]

The portal is not the problem.  Baylor was laying down MASSIVE NIL in the last two football open portals.  They have money to retain at least part of their team. 

You don't have your team gutted like that without bigger cultural or programmatic problems. 

Not the portal's fault.   Actually good those players were able to escape.

The portal, for lack of a better word, is good. The portal is right, the portal works.  The portal clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.  The portal in all of its forms. The portal for momma, money, playing time, girls, has marked the upward surge of mid-majors, and the portal – you mark my words – could not only save UNT, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the NCAA.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

[NT93]

19 minutes ago, DentonStang said:

The portal is not the problem.  

I thought this was crazy…

 

until I read this:

19 minutes ago, DentonStang said:

The portal, for lack of a better word, is good.

[NT80]

1 hour ago, DentonStang said:

The portal, for lack of a better word, is good. The portal is right, the portal works.  

I've heard this somewhere before...

[keith]

9 hours ago, DentonStang said:

The portal is not the problem.  Baylor was laying down MASSIVE NIL in the last two football open portals.  They have money to retain at least part of their team. 

You don't have your team gutted like that without bigger cultural or programmatic problems. 

Not the portal's fault.   Actually good those players were able to escape.

The portal, for lack of a better word, is good. The portal is right, the portal works.  The portal clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.  The portal in all of its forms. The portal for momma, money, playing time, girls, has marked the upward surge of mid-majors, and the portal – you mark my words – could not only save UNT, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the NCAA.

You know, limiting players to just four transfers and this artificially imposed "window" of opportunity is kind of draconian.  Maybe what we need is insta-portal....unlimited in-season transfers (and trades).  That would be really good.  🤪     

[2020 Sucks]

9 hours ago, DentonStang said:

The portal is not the problem.  Baylor was laying down MASSIVE NIL in the last two football open portals.  They have money to retain at least part of their team. 

You don't have your team gutted like that without bigger cultural or programmatic problems. 

Not the portal's fault.   Actually good those players were able to escape.

The portal, for lack of a better word, is good. The portal is right, the portal works.  The portal clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.  The portal in all of its forms. The portal for momma, money, playing time, girls, has marked the upward surge of mid-majors, and the portal – you mark my words – could not only save UNT, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the NCAA.

That's why in the CFP, the lower tier schools got freaking destroyed...and no mid-major made it to the sweet 16 in hoops.  Sure...the portal is great!

[MeanGreenZen]

10 hours ago, DentonStang said:

The portal is not the problem.  Baylor was laying down MASSIVE NIL in the last two football open portals.  They have money to retain at least part of their team. 

You don't have your team gutted like that without bigger cultural or programmatic problems. 

Not the portal's fault.   Actually good those players were able to escape.

The portal, for lack of a better word, is good. The portal is right, the portal works.  The portal clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.  The portal in all of its forms. The portal for momma, money, playing time, girls, has marked the upward surge of mid-majors, and the portal – you mark my words – could not only save UNT, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the NCAA.

SMU has mountains more money than North Texas, is in a better conference and congrats on making the college football playoff. 
BUT WE HAVE A BETTER BASKETBALL PROGRAM THAN YOU so get out of here with that nonsense. 

[DeepGreen]

10 hours ago, DentonStang said:

The portal is not the problem.  Baylor was laying down MASSIVE NIL in the last two football open portals.  They have money to retain at least part of their team. 

You don't have your team gutted like that without bigger cultural or programmatic problems. 

Not the portal's fault.   Actually good those players were able to escape.

The portal, for lack of a better word, is good. The portal is right, the portal works.  The portal clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.  The portal in all of its forms. The portal for momma, money, playing time, girls, has marked the upward surge of mid-majors, and the portal – you mark my words – could not only save UNT, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the NCAA.

 

What a load of crap!

[Wag Tag]

Like the pro's contracts need to be put in place. It could be structured in such a fashion were you could have some type of predictability for both the team and player.

[Censored by Laurie]

1 hour ago, 2020 Sucks said:

and no mid-major made it to the sweet 16 in hoops.  Sure...the portal is great!

I'm so sick of this narrative. how often do you really think Mid-Majors make the Sweet 16?

Middies in the Sweet 16
2024 - San Diego St., Gonzaga*
2023 - Florida Atlantic, Princeton (15 seed)
2022 - St. Peter's (15 seed)
2021 - Oral Roberts (15 seed), Loyola-Chicago
2019 - Gonzaga*
2018 - Loyola-Chicago, Gonzaga*
2017 - Gonzaga* 
2016 - Gonzaga*
2015 - Wichita State, Gonzaga*
2014 - Dayton, San Diego St.
2013 - Wichita State, LaSalle, Florida-Gulf Coast (15 seed)
2012 - Xavier (still in A-10 at the time)

take Gonzaga out of the math and you're basically at 1 per year...with maybe extra qualifiers for Xavier and SDSU...so zero isn't really a statistical anomaly...basically '16, '17, '19 were all zeroes, pre NIL/portal.

one tournament does not make a trend. 

[Udomann]

4 hours ago, keith said:

You know, limiting players to just four transfers and this artificially imposed "window" of opportunity is kind of draconian.  Maybe what we need is insta-portal....unlimited in-season transfers (and trades).  That would be really good.  🤪     

We've kinda joked about this before with post-season CFB portal windows...but we are really getting close to a point where the player shows up to the game, takes off his hoodie, only for us to discover he's now playing for the other team this week.

Sometimes you have to burn it all down so you can grow it back better.

[TIgreen01]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'm so sick of this narrative. how often do you really think Mid-Majors make the Sweet 16?

Middies in the Sweet 16
2024 - San Diego St., Gonzaga*
2023 - Florida Atlantic, Princeton (15 seed)
2022 - St. Peter's (15 seed)
2021 - Oral Roberts (15 seed), Loyola-Chicago
2019 - Gonzaga*
2018 - Loyola-Chicago, Gonzaga*
2017 - Gonzaga* 
2016 - Gonzaga*
2015 - Wichita State, Gonzaga*
2014 - Dayton, San Diego St.
2013 - Wichita State, LaSalle, Florida-Gulf Coast (15 seed)
2012 - Xavier (still in A-10 at the time)

take Gonzaga out of the math and you're basically at 1 per year...with maybe extra qualifiers for Xavier and SDSU...so zero isn't really a statistical anomaly...basically '16, '17, '19 were all zeroes, pre NIL/portal.

one tournament does not make a trend. 

Houston didn't join the Big 12 until 2023.  So you left them off of at least 2019.  Missed Nevada in 2018.  Mostly, though, 1-2 teams outside of the P6 conferences make the Sweet 16.  

I think if you look deeper at the bracketing, though, some of that is manufactured by the seedings and pairings.  Almost every year the 2 best, or 2 of the top 3 "Mid major" teams are pitted against each other in the first round.  Or they are setup against a powerhouse in the round of 32 (see FAU in 2024.  Had they beaten Northwestern they would have had to face top overall seed UCONN next).  Get past that, and they face San Diego St or UAB in the Sweet 16.  That's the 3 best mid-majors in the tournament, all lined up to face defending National Champ UCONN.  2024 was the worst year for it.  Look at some of these first round pairings:

East Bracket:

5 San Diego St vs 12 UAB

West Bracket:

5 Saint Mary's vs 12 Grand Canyon

7 Dayton vs 10 Nevada

Midwest Bracket:

5 Gonzaga vs 12 McNeese (30-3)

When you look at schools who come from G5 conferences (not counting all the basketball only schools), only FAU and Utah St were given first round games against schools NOT in other G5 conferences.  Go back through your 2021-2024 brackets and you'll see a lot of the same. 

This year, 2025, you didn't see it as much.  Why?  Not sure, other than there really wasn't a G5 school, or even a collection of them, that looked like they would really threaten to go deep into the tournament.  Up until the free transfer floodgates opened after 2024, mid-majors had an advantage over the schools chasing 1 and done NBA lottery types because we could keep a team together for 4 years and beat them collectively.  That's been the case since Butler and Wichita St led the way in the late aughts and through the 2010s.  Those days are long gone.

[Censored by Laurie]

33 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

Houston didn't join the Big 12 until 2023.  So you left them off of at least 2019.  Missed Nevada in 2018.  Mostly, though, 1-2 teams outside of the P6 conferences make the Sweet 16.  

I think if you look deeper at the bracketing, though, some of that is manufactured by the seedings and pairings.  Almost every year the 2 best, or 2 of the top 3 "Mid major" teams are pitted against each other in the first round.  Or they are setup against a powerhouse in the round of 32 (see FAU in 2024.  Had they beaten Northwestern they would have had to face top overall seed UCONN next).  Get past that, and they face San Diego St or UAB in the Sweet 16.  That's the 3 best mid-majors in the tournament, all lined up to face defending National Champ UCONN.  2024 was the worst year for it.  Look at some of these first round pairings:

East Bracket:

5 San Diego St vs 12 UAB

West Bracket:

5 Saint Mary's vs 12 Grand Canyon

7 Dayton vs 10 Nevada

Midwest Bracket:

5 Gonzaga vs 12 McNeese (30-3)

When you look at schools who come from G5 conferences (not counting all the basketball only schools), only FAU and Utah St were given first round games against schools NOT in other G5 conferences.  Go back through your 2021-2024 brackets and you'll see a lot of the same. 

This year, 2025, you didn't see it as much.  Why?  Not sure, other than there really wasn't a G5 school, or even a collection of them, that looked like they would really threaten to go deep into the tournament.  Up until the free transfer floodgates opened after 2024, mid-majors had an advantage over the schools chasing 1 and done NBA lottery types because we could keep a team together for 4 years and beat them collectively.  That's been the case since Butler and Wichita St led the way in the late aughts and through the 2010s.  Those days are long gone.

oh I definitely think there's some power conference collusion going on in seeding...taking from your above post, that Dayton/Nevada game stands out, especially when you have UT/Colorado State and UF/Colorado on 7/10 lines...but what are you meant to do when 3 of your 5 seeds are middies like SDSU, St. Mary's, Gonzaga? 5s have to play 12s and 12s are usually the top programs in the mid-major tier.

I mean, I guess you can split hairs that a 5 could've been a 4 (the 4s went 3 of 4, with 2 advancing to at least the Elite8 or a 12 should've been an 11 (the 11s went 3 and 4 as well, all against power conference foes). the 5/12s here read way less of protectionism and more of just math

in the end, all I'm really trying to convey is that, ya, maybe the mid-major cinderella is dead, but the evidence of one year's tournament isn't enough to make that definitive determination. 

and while maaaaaybe the days of building around 4 years-at-one-school players does feel like it's near done, I don't think keeping key parts of a roster together for 2-3 seasons at a Mid-Major is out of the question...relationships still count for a lot in this game. I firmly believe that we'd have a roster of at least Floyd, Newell...maybe B-Lo...and a couple of the bench kids back this season if Hodge hadn't been hired away. and goodness knows that all the CSU kids aren't getting million dollar deals to come to UNT...no clue on their NIL situations, but by and large those kids are here because of Robinson

[NorthTexasWeLove]

4 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'm so sick of this narrative. how often do you really think Mid-Majors make the Sweet 16?

Middies in the Sweet 16
2024 - San Diego St., Gonzaga*
2023 - Florida Atlantic, Princeton (15 seed)
2022 - St. Peter's (15 seed)
2021 - Oral Roberts (15 seed), Loyola-Chicago
2019 - Gonzaga*
2018 - Loyola-Chicago, Gonzaga*
2017 - Gonzaga* 
2016 - Gonzaga*
2015 - Wichita State, Gonzaga*
2014 - Dayton, San Diego St.
2013 - Wichita State, LaSalle, Florida-Gulf Coast (15 seed)
2012 - Xavier (still in A-10 at the time)

take Gonzaga out of the math and you're basically at 1 per year...with maybe extra qualifiers for Xavier and SDSU...so zero isn't really a statistical anomaly...basically '16, '17, '19 were all zeroes, pre NIL/portal.

one tournament does not make a trend. 

You did all that research to prove yourself wrong... so, in conclusion, mid majors make the s16 a lot. 

[Censored by Laurie]

8 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

You did all that research to prove yourself wrong... so, in conclusion, mid majors make the s16 a lot. 

If only half your bravado were intelligence you’d probably be half-decent contributor here…but instead here we are.

lets even include Gonzaga and Houston in the conversation…there’s an average of about 2 mid-majors reaching the sweet 16. 

1 season of 0 mid-majors when your average is 2 for a decade-plus isn’t really significant. Had that average been 4 or 5, ya, then maybe that’s a bigger deal (though statistics it could just be an outlier) 

[MCMLXXX]

7 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'm so sick of this narrative. how often do you really think Mid-Majors make the Sweet 16?

Middies in the Sweet 16
2024 - San Diego St., Gonzaga*
2023 - Florida Atlantic, Princeton (15 seed)
2022 - St. Peter's (15 seed)
2021 - Oral Roberts (15 seed), Loyola-Chicago
2019 - Gonzaga*
2018 - Loyola-Chicago, Gonzaga*
2017 - Gonzaga* 
2016 - Gonzaga*
2015 - Wichita State, Gonzaga*
2014 - Dayton, San Diego St.
2013 - Wichita State, LaSalle, Florida-Gulf Coast (15 seed)
2012 - Xavier (still in A-10 at the time)
 

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

If only half your bravado were intelligence you’d probably be half-decent contributor here…but instead here we are.

 

When I read your first post and saw that you left San Diego State (the national runner up) off your 2023 list I didn't bother to check the rest. I am surprised you were not immediately corrected by a dozen posters. I have not bothered to check the rest of your "research" because I could not take your list seriously from just a first glance. You may or may not be correct I just have no interest in verifying the information. As to your second post that I quoted remember the proverb about "Glass Houses".   

[GMG_Dallas]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

If only half your bravado were intelligence you’d probably be half-decent contributor here…but instead here we are.

lets even include Gonzaga and Houston in the conversation…there’s an average of about 2 mid-majors reaching the sweet 16. 

1 season of 0 mid-majors when your average is 2 for a decade-plus isn’t really significant. Had that average been 4 or 5, ya, then maybe that’s a bigger deal (though statistics it could just be an outlier) 

Off the top of my head, you forgot SDSU in 2023 who played the championship game so that year had 3.

I don't disagree that one year isn't enough to show a trend but overall, this year you had fewer mid-majors advance to the second round than I can remember in a long time. I may be off, but wasn't the final 4 all number 1 seeds? Maybe the committee just got the seeding incredibly accurate this year, I don't know.

I do think if we go from an average of 2 middies in the S16 to 0 for 2 or 3 seasons, it's cause for concern. This is all TBD in my opinion.

Appreciate y'alls back and forth!

[NorthTexasWeLove]

3 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

If only half your bravado were intelligence you’d probably be half-decent contributor here…but instead here we are.

lets even include Gonzaga and Houston in the conversation…there’s an average of about 2 mid-majors reaching the sweet 16. 

1 season of 0 mid-majors when your average is 2 for a decade-plus isn’t really significant. Had that average been 4 or 5, ya, then maybe that’s a bigger deal (though statistics it could just be an outlier) 

Got it. So, again, a lot. 

[GMGGWBG]

The thing is, money is number one.  Then culture and location.  Drew is a good coach and we benefited from his asst coach development.  But who wants to move to Waco?  Davidians?

[Censored by Laurie]

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Got it. So, again, a lot. 

I guess if 12.5% is a lot to you...sure...keep doubling-down

[Censored by Laurie]

2 hours ago, MCMLXXX said:

When I read your first post and saw that you left San Diego State (the national runner up) off your 2023 list I didn't bother to check the rest. I am surprised you were not immediately corrected by a dozen posters. I have not bothered to check the rest of your "research" because I could not take your list seriously from just a first glance. You may or may not be correct I just have no interest in verifying the information. As to your second post that I quoted remember the proverb about "Glass Houses".   

I didn't read a thing but here is my opinion on it seems to sum you up pretty well.

[Censored by Laurie]

2 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Off the top of my head, you forgot SDSU in 2023 who played the championship game so that year had 3.

I don't disagree that one year isn't enough to show a trend but overall, this year you had fewer mid-majors advance to the second round than I can remember in a long time. I may be off, but wasn't the final 4 all number 1 seeds? Maybe the committee just got the seeding incredibly accurate this year, I don't know.

I do think if we go from an average of 2 middies in the S16 to 0 for 2 or 3 seasons, it's cause for concern. This is all TBD in my opinion.

Appreciate y'alls back and forth!

you're right...I missed a big one with SDSU. mea culpa. 

yes, this year's Final Four was all #1 seeds. but then so was 2008...years before anyone could conceive of NIL or the transfer portal. 

the bolded part is spot on. 

[UNTLifer]

50 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

you're right...I missed a big one with SDSU. mea culpa. 

yes, this year's Final Four was all #1 seeds. but then so was 2008...years before anyone could conceive of NIL or the transfer portal. 

the bolded part is spot on. 

Must be nice living in your little world thinking your opinion is superior to everyone else and belittling those you disagree with.