UNT, Rice Among Universities Under DEI Investigation

[UNTLifer]

Not trying to cause issues, but people were cordial on the other thread that was shut down.

https://www.fox4news.com/news/north-texas-rice-universities-targeted-federal-dei-investigations

What they're saying:

"Students must be assessed according to merit and accomplishment, not prejudged by the color of their skin," Education Secretary Linda McMahon said in the news release. "We will not yield on this commitment."

Officials with Rice University declined to comment.

The University of North Texas has not yet returned a request for comment.

[Tommy Gadberry]

Honestly I don’t think anyone has a problem with this.  Be judged on your accomplishment .

[Censored by Laurie]

18 hours ago, Tommy Gadberry said:

Be judged on your accomplishment .

if everyone had equal access to the same tools/education/structures, then yes.

that, though, just does not exist. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

if everyone had equal access to the same tools/education/structures, then yes.

that, though, just does not exist. 

Treading in here carefully...

Would you say that DEI could still be somewhat attained if financial status were taken into account in the admissions process?   
So, you're not explicitly saying, "We're taking students' race, religion, etc... into account.", but you're still able to offer an extended branch to students that often-times fit into those same marginalized groups simply because they don't have as much money.

Because, yeah, if you're saying it should ONLY be based on grades/test scores, then students who have the means to prepare for the SAT/ACT are going to do better than those who don't.   This doesn't mean they are smarter though.

[Censored by Laurie]

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Treading in here carefully...

Would you say that DEI could still be somewhat attained if financial status were taken into account in the admissions process?   
So, you're not explicitly saying, "We're taking students' race, religion, etc... into account.", but you're still able to offer an extended branch to students that often-times fit into those same marginalized groups simply because they don't have as much money.

Because, yeah, if you're saying it should ONLY be based on grades/test scores, then students who have the means to prepare for the SAT/ACT are going to do better than those who don't.   This doesn't mean they are smarter though.

I think financial status should be a part of the consideration, but until we live in a post-racial society (will never happen), I don't think you can ever entirely remove race (...etc) from these sorts of considerations. 

I'm sure some will disagree...but I'm firmly of the belief that a white person/family has greater access to the tools of upward mobility than a person/family of color from the same economic level, so just looking to financial status would not be a true leveling of the playing field. 

beyond any of that though, to me, especially in education "DEI" (if we're actually taking it at it's face, and not just the pejorative dog-whistle the term has become) is important because our learning experience is not limited to books, lectures and exams...it is the diversity of cultural interactions and learning of different life-experiences from those around us that make better, more empathetic, well-rounded individuals. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

58 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I think financial status should be a part of the consideration, but until we live in a post-racial society (will never happen), I don't think you can ever entirely remove race (...etc) from these sorts of considerations. 

I'm sure some will disagree...but I'm firmly of the belief that a white person/family has greater access to the tools of upward mobility than a person/family of color from the same economic level, so just looking to financial status would not be a true leveling of the playing field. 

beyond any of that though, to me, especially in education "DEI" (if we're actually taking it at it's face, and not just the pejorative dog-whistle the term has become) is important because our learning experience is not limited to books, lectures and exams...it is the diversity of cultural interactions and learning of different life-experiences from those around us that make better, more empathetic, well-rounded individuals. 

I am in 100% agreement on that 3rd paragraph.   And I don't fully believe in "Color Blindness".   Often times color comes with different cultural differences that should be celebrated.   On the flipside, when looking into an individual person's soul and how God created them, color-blindness can and should be very real.

I'm sure there are cases that would prove me wrong, but I think on the whole, if there are 2 nuclear families that live next door to each other in Suburbia, making roughly the same amount of money, one is White & the other Black or Hispanic, that the access to upward mobility (viewing through the lens of college admissions here: things like SAT prep classes, volunteer opportunities, and other factors that could push your application ahead) isn't much different between the two.  It would come down to the kid & their disposition/work ethic, mostly. 

The chasm I see more is between the Suburban, nuclear-family, White kid competing for an admission spot with an urban, single-parent, Black/Hispanic kid.  The resources (finances, time, guidance) are vastly different between those two, and if you strip away any sort of protections (in this case, DEI), those resources are usually going to push the first kid through.  The second kid doesn't stand much of a chance.
Now, if you want to take a deeper dive into the societal structures built over centuries that got those two families where they are, that can & should be discussed/understood separately. 
But, again, looking specifically through the lens of college admissions, I think you can find a way to help that second kid by taking their economic/family/environmental considerations into account, and you leave the triggering "DEI" term out.   
I'm sure, as we're seeing with these voucher scams, there would be an outcry from the wealthy that "My kid is being denied based on our family's income!!  This is wrong!!".  So this would likely eventually get thrown out as well.

[MDH]

FWIW, because DEI gets used as a short-cut to race, I'm considered a DEI hire in my organization because I'm degreed from a "non-prestigious" university. Guess what? I have Ivy Leaguers reporting to me now. There were hedge funds in Dallas that would not accept my resume because I didn't come from a top 10 school - their loss.

[cousin oliver]

Feeling proud of our board participants for engaging in such a meaningful discussion with no animus. I mentioned this to my girlfriend and she didn't believe me!

[UNTLifer]

8 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

if everyone had equal access to the same tools/education/structures, then yes.

that, though, just does not exist. 

I disagree.  At least where I grew up, Denton, opportunities were the same.  Maybe not in the inner cities where local governments fleece the education coffers.

[UNTLifer]

5 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I am in 100% agreement on that 3rd paragraph.   And I don't fully believe in "Color Blindness".   Often times color comes with different cultural differences that should be celebrated.   On the flipside, when looking into an individual person's soul and how God created them, color-blindness can and should be very real.

I'm sure there are cases that would prove me wrong, but I think on the whole, if there are 2 nuclear families that live next door to each other in Suburbia, making roughly the same amount of money, one is White & the other Black or Hispanic, that the access to upward mobility (viewing through the lens of college admissions here: things like SAT prep classes, volunteer opportunities, and other factors that could push your application ahead) isn't much different between the two.  It would come down to the kid & their disposition/work ethic, mostly. 

The chasm I see more is between the Suburban, nuclear-family, White kid competing for an admission spot with an urban, single-parent, Black/Hispanic kid.  The resources (finances, time, guidance) are vastly different between those two, and if you strip away any sort of protections (in this case, DEI), those resources are usually going to push the first kid through.  The second kid doesn't stand much of a chance.
Now, if you want to take a deeper dive into the societal structures built over centuries that got those two families where they are, that can & should be discussed/understood separately. 
But, again, looking specifically through the lens of college admissions, I think you can find a way to help that second kid by taking their economic/family/environmental considerations into account, and you leave the triggering "DEI" term out.   
I'm sure, as we're seeing with these voucher scams, there would be an outcry from the wealthy that "My kid is being denied based on our family's income!!  This is wrong!!".  So this would likely eventually get thrown out as well.

Well said.  I agree 100%.