PAC soon on the Prowl again for more Football members...

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, Jason Howeth said:

Because they suck ass at basically all sports. 

And they have about 30 fans 

[NT80]

6 hours ago, Green Lantern said:

Many years ago there was data suggesting that something like 23,000 students attending UNT live within 10 minutes of campus (source “trust me bro but I’m way to lazy to look this up”) That was before the explosion of new student housing and new apts in Denton the last 5 years or so. In no world is that a “commuter” school. It hasn’t been in 10+ years. 

Fastest growing Flagship Universities (year to year basis):

RANK SCHOOL Y-O-Y CHANGE 2022 FALL ENROLLMENT 2023 FALL ENROLLMENT PROJECTED FIVE-YEAR CHANGE

1 University of Cincinnati 3,007 47,914 50,921 2.7%

2 Texas A&M University 2,666 68,461 71,127 3.7%

3 Georgia Institute of Technology 2,650 45,296 47,946 7.2%

4 University of North Texas 2,604 44,336 46,940 5.6%

5 University of Tennessee 2,499 33,805 36,304 5.7%

................................................................................................................

SUPPLY AND DEMAND VARIATION | TOP 50 SCHOOL

2023 FALL ENROLLMENT , 2023 TOTAL SUPPLY (BEDS)

1 Florida International University 56,732 21,388 

2 Utah Valley University 44,653 16,512 

3 University of Central Florida 69,320 41,656 

4 University of Cincinnati 50,921 24,120 

5 University of California - Berkeley 45,699 20,680 

6 University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign 56,403 33,693 

7 Oregon State University 36,636 14,176 

8 California State University - Northridge 36,123 14,907 

9 University of California - Davis 40,850 22,150 

10 University of Colorado - Boulder 37,153 18,917 

11 George Mason University 40,000 21,977 

12 University of North Texas 46,940 29,352

[Dannymacfan]

Our enrollment has always been impressive.

[TIgreen01]

I hated being in a west coast based league in the past.  However, after watching our basketball team get stone-walled the past several years while the MWC routinely gets in 4 teams into the tourney....I'd have a hard time not taking them up on the offer, if its serious.

[NT80]

[Green Lantern]

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

Fastest growing Flagship Universities (year to year basis):

RANK SCHOOL Y-O-Y CHANGE 2022 FALL ENROLLMENT 2023 FALL ENROLLMENT PROJECTED FIVE-YEAR CHANGE

1 University of Cincinnati 3,007 47,914 50,921 2.7%

2 Texas A&M University 2,666 68,461 71,127 3.7%

3 Georgia Institute of Technology 2,650 45,296 47,946 7.2%

4 University of North Texas 2,604 44,336 46,940 5.6%

5 University of Tennessee 2,499 33,805 36,304 5.7%

................................................................................................................

SUPPLY AND DEMAND VARIATION | TOP 50 SCHOOL

2023 FALL ENROLLMENT , 2023 TOTAL SUPPLY (BEDS)

1 Florida International University 56,732 21,388 

2 Utah Valley University 44,653 16,512 

3 University of Central Florida 69,320 41,656 

4 University of Cincinnati 50,921 24,120 

5 University of California - Berkeley 45,699 20,680 

6 University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign 56,403 33,693 

7 Oregon State University 36,636 14,176 

8 California State University - Northridge 36,123 14,907 

9 University of California - Davis 40,850 22,150 

10 University of Colorado - Boulder 37,153 18,917 

11 George Mason University 40,000 21,977 

12 University of North Texas 46,940 29,352

[greenminer]

10 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Really just shows a misunderstanding of what a commuter is. Living in an apartment half a mile from campus doesn't make you a commuter even though you're not on campus. 82% of our students living off campus is no different than many other schools.

Also from the same poster, who is very vocal in that Reddit thread:

If we’re going to take teams like UNT that make less on their AAC media deal than New Mexico, Hawaii, etc., do in the MW, we might as well have just reverse merged with the MW and saved everyone a bunch of money, time, and legal action.

[GMG_Dallas]

7 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Also from the same poster, who is very vocal in that Reddit thread:

If we’re going to take teams like UNT that make less on their AAC media deal than New Mexico, Hawaii, etc., do in the MW, we might as well have just reverse merged with the MW and saved everyone a bunch of money, time, and legal action.

Eh this poster seems misinformed. We make less than they do for now because we just joined our conference. In addition, we're in a part of the country over saturated with sports options. Those MW conferences have had the benefit of occupying rather empty TV time slots due to being the secondary option on the west coast. Simple supply and demand. Hawaii and New Mexico are not worth more than we are other than that they fill TV time slots the rest of the country can't. 

[TIgreen01]

15 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Eh this poster seems misinformed. We make less than they do for now because we just joined our conference. In addition, we're in a part of the country over saturated with sports options. Those MW conferences have had the benefit of occupying rather empty TV time slots due to being the secondary option on the west coast. Simple supply and demand. Hawaii and New Mexico are not worth more than we are other than that they fill TV time slots the rest of the country can't. 

Which only helps reinforce why us joining a West Coast based league is not a great move.  It might be better than where we are if it helps translate to NCAA tourney bids...but long term we'll get less exposure out West than where we are today if we move and regress as a bball program (fail to take advantage of the extra bid potential).

[NT80]

4 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

Which only helps reinforce why us joining a West Coast based league is not a great move.  It might be better than where we are if it helps translate to NCAA tourney bids...but long term we'll get less exposure out West than where we are today if we move and regress as a bball program (fail to take advantage of the extra bid potential).

The PAC has more potential of being the top G5 conference in football and basketball.  They want to tap into the Texas markets.   You really want to hand that opportunity over to TXST and UTSA?

[TIgreen01]

14 minutes ago, NT80 said:

The PAC has more potential of being the top G5 conference in football and basketball.  They want to tap into the Texas markets.   You really want to hand that opportunity over to TXST and UTSA?

If our reason for joining is to block TxSt and UTSA, then sure.  That isn't good enough for me.  Our reason should be that we are going all-in on basketball if we make this move.  I mean all-freaking-in.  Like TCU did for football when they joined the MWC.  If we go out West and continue to do North Texas things (middling support and results) then we will wind up further behind than we are today.  There is no question that the media exposure out West will be less than what we get today.  None.  And it'll be harder for our own fans to watch away games than it is today.  However, if we go out there and dominate, continue to place top 2 in the conference every year, I'd expect that would be good enough to make the tourney every year since they get more than just the conference tourney champ in.  That could be a launch pad.

[RBP79]

So we wait till Memphis, Tulane, and possibly South Florida head over to the ACC then see who their replacements are. 

We know who most of the PAC new members are.

I don't  know......Just seems NT is always late to these parties.

Edited Friday at 08:17 PM by RBP79

[GMG_Dallas]

2 hours ago, RBP79 said:

So we wait till Memphis, Tulane, and possibly South Florida head over to the ACC then see who their replacements are. 

We know who most of the PAC new members are.

I don't  know......Just seems NT is always late to these parties.

Joining the PAC NOW guarantees we're finally not late to the party. We obviously were late to the AAC party but this is a chance to leave this before the collapse and join a conference on the rise.

3 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

If our reason for joining is to block TxSt and UTSA, then sure.  That isn't good enough for me.  Our reason should be that we are going all-in on basketball if we make this move.  I mean all-freaking-in.  Like TCU did for football when they joined the MWC.  If we go out West and continue to do North Texas things (middling support and results) then we will wind up further behind than we are today.  There is no question that the media exposure out West will be less than what we get today.  None.  And it'll be harder for our own fans to watch away games than it is today.  However, if we go out there and dominate, continue to place top 2 in the conference every year, I'd expect that would be good enough to make the tourney every year since they get more than just the conference tourney champ in.  That could be a launch pad.

It's interesting to say going out West isn't a good idea while simultaneously pointing at a program that went out West and then jumped to a P5. Yes, we'd have to go all in. No matter what we do, we should go all in. My question to you is, where do we have greater potential if we go all in: the conference that looks to be a 4-5 bid basketball conference and just had a team in the 12 team playoffs or the team that's at best a 2 bid basketball conference and who's last CFP team is now in the BIG 12? Seems pretty obvious which conference is on the rise and which one is crashing but I guess that's just me.

[MeanGreenGlory]

Now is the time to strike up conversations.

If TX State legitimately received an invite from the PAC12 with a 50% media share and declined it, it puts North Texas in a great position for negotiation.

We have more to offer than TX St, so negotiate a 70% media share to let the PAC12 schools know they're getting a discount member on the front-end. Include either an incremental increase to 100% over X years, or something more innovative that addresses the "your brand needs to contribute to the success of the conference" perspective by putting media share increases each time we win conference championships in a revenue sport until we reach 100%.

70% of the new PAC media share would likely be more than we're making in the AAC now, and it secures our seat in the most stable, and likely best, G5 conference moving forward.

Edited yesterday at 02:06 AM by MeanGreenGlory

[MeanGreenGlory]

And, I'll say it again...

Playing football in the PAC is on equal, if not slightly better, footing than in the AAC.

 

Playing Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Colorado State, Utah State, San Diego State, Boise State, Oregon State, and Washington State in basketball is WAY more exciting than our current conference schedule. Not even close.

 

Therefore, I already see the PAC as better.

 

If Memphis, Tulane, and USF bolt for the ACC when the ACC is disrupted, there's no question the PAC will be better all around than the AAC.

 

Get ahead of it.

[NT80]

2025 NCAA Tournament teams:

AAC = Memphis

Future PAC =  Colo St., San Diego St, Gonzaga, Utah St.

[GMG_Dallas]

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

2025 NCAA Tournament teams:

AAC = Memphis

Future PAC =  Colo St., San Diego St, Gonzaga, Utah St.

All of those bids are worth money for the following 6 seasons. I wonder how much we could earn being part of that conference on basketball tourney credits alone.

[NT93]

I’ve always been against moving out west, but not this time.  As several people have already said in some form or another, we need to be proactive instead of reactive.

Your random basketball junkie will come to see us play Gonzaga for sure.  Give them an entertaining game and they might come back to watch us instead of our opponent.

[keith]

22 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

Which only helps reinforce why us joining a West Coast based league is not a great move.  It might be better than where we are if it helps translate to NCAA tourney bids...but long term we'll get less exposure out West than where we are today if we move and regress as a bball program (fail to take advantage of the extra bid potential).

And the exposure out East has helped us how?   We can always schedule OOC games east of the Mississippi if we really think that's important.  I think we really need to decide where we want to be in 10, 20, 30 years, what is reasonably attainable for us and what moves will help get us there.  I don't think we've reached our potential yet and while a good conference, I don't think the AAC is the pinnacle or final resting place for our program.   If we are able to finagle our way into the PAC I don't even that would be our final stop on the conference carousel.  

Edited 19 hours ago by keith

[keith]

In the college sports world, you are largely known by the company you keep.  SMU knew that, took a look around at what the AAC had become around them and said we have to get the heck out of here.  They took advantage of the chaos and with some deep pockets was able to bolt for the ACC.  In terms of the company you keep, one measuring stick is the size of the athletic budgets of your conference members.  Our athletic budget has grown significantly in the last 10-15 years.  Using FY2023 figures here's what the member institutions spent on their athletic programs.  The PAC-12 is better funded than the AAC.  I have our FY2024 expenses because I have those numbers.  I suspect everyone below has probably grown from the FY2023 dollar amounts.  I didn't include SMU, but it had estimates of $75-80M in FY2023 before it left the conference.

AAC -----

UAB - $41.5M

Charlotte - $39M

ECU - $56.9M

FAU - $41M

Memphis - $66.4M

UNT - $47M (up to $53M in FY2024)

Rice - not disclosed ($40-45M est.)

USF - $70.4M

Temple - $68.5M

UTSA - $47.6M

Tulane - not disclosed ($50-55M est.)

Tulsa - not disclosed ($40-45M est.)

WSU - $34.6M (non-football member)

Army and Navy - not disclosed ($45-50M est.) - football only

PAC-12 -----

OSU - $91.5M

WSU - $91.5M

Boise State- $58.6M

Colorado State - $58.2M

Fresno State - $51.4M

SDSU - $67M

USU - $47.9M

Gonzaga - not disclosed ($30-40M est.) - non-football member

[TIgreen01]

39 minutes ago, keith said:

In the college sports world, you are largely known by the company you keep.  SMU knew that, took a look around at what the AAC had become around them and said we have to get the heck out of here.  They took advantage of the chaos and with some deep pockets was able to bolt for the ACC.  In terms of the company you keep, one measuring stick is the size of the athletic budgets of your conference members.  Our athletic budget has grown significantly in the last 10-15 years.  Using FY2023 figures here's what the member institutions spent on their athletic programs.  The PAC-12 is better funded than the AAC.  I have our FY2024 expenses because I have those numbers.  I suspect everyone below has probably grown from the FY2023 dollar amounts.  I didn't include SMU, but it had estimates of $75-80M in FY2023 before it left the conference.

AAC -----

UAB - $41.5M

Charlotte - $39M

ECU - $56.9M

FAU - $41M

Memphis - $66.4M

UNT - $47M (up to $53M in FY2024)

Rice - not disclosed ($40-45M est.)

USF - $70.4M

Temple - $68.5M

UTSA - $47.6M

Tulane - not disclosed ($50-55M est.)

Tulsa - not disclosed ($40-45M est.)

WSU - $34.6M (non-football member)

Army and Navy - not disclosed ($45-50M est.) - football only

PAC-12 -----

OSU - $91.5M

WSU - $91.5M

Boise State- $58.6M

Colorado State - $58.2M

Fresno State - $51.4M

SDSU - $67M

USU - $47.9M

Gonzaga - not disclosed ($30-40M est.) - non-football member

Think WSU and OSU are going to keep spending at $90M+ once their new TV deal comes in?  Or will they skew down, closer to where the rest of that league is at?

[untjim1995]

Guys, it doesn’t matter. We aren’t going  out west. The administration hasn’t even talked to them. That’s from the biggest source out west that has covered the PAC for decades.

https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzano-next-pac-12-expansion-bite

[C Rod]

19 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

There is no question that the media exposure out West will be less than what we get today.  None.

This is TBD. All signs are pointing to Pac-12 games being on multiple partners. ESPN, TNT, FOX, CBS, & the CW have all shown interest and are in talks. We should know within a couple weeks.
 

Also, the Pac-12 is a brand with 66 years of history. It’s near death and survival to rise again will be THE media narrative moving forward. UNT being the team (or one of the teams) that gets the Pac-12 to full FBS required 8 members would be a huge national storyline and provide exposure like we’ve never seen before.

[C Rod]

29 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

That’s from the biggest source out west that has covered the PAC for decades.

John is a lightning rod and has been wrong multiple times regarding his Pac-12 insider info. He’s done his part to earn the nickname John Clownzano.

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, keith said:

In the college sports world, you are largely known by the company you keep.  SMU knew that, took a look around at what the AAC had become around them and said we have to get the heck out of here.  They took advantage of the chaos and with some deep pockets was able to bolt for the ACC.  In terms of the company you keep, one measuring stick is the size of the athletic budgets of your conference members.  Our athletic budget has grown significantly in the last 10-15 years.  Using FY2023 figures here's what the member institutions spent on their athletic programs.  The PAC-12 is better funded than the AAC.  I have our FY2024 expenses because I have those numbers.  I suspect everyone below has probably grown from the FY2023 dollar amounts.  I didn't include SMU, but it had estimates of $75-80M in FY2023 before it left the conference.

AAC -----

UAB - $41.5M

Charlotte - $39M

ECU - $56.9M

FAU - $41M

Memphis - $66.4M

UNT - $47M (up to $53M in FY2024)

Rice - not disclosed ($40-45M est.)

USF - $70.4M

Temple - $68.5M

UTSA - $47.6M

Tulane - not disclosed ($50-55M est.)

Tulsa - not disclosed ($40-45M est.)

WSU - $34.6M (non-football member)

Army and Navy - not disclosed ($45-50M est.) - football only

PAC-12 -----

OSU - $91.5M

WSU - $91.5M

Boise State- $58.6M

Colorado State - $58.2M

Fresno State - $51.4M

SDSU - $67M

USU - $47.9M

Gonzaga - not disclosed ($30-40M est.) - non-football member

The PAC desperately needs some Central time zone schools! We should join in a heartbeat!