Stop Blaming Athletes and the NCAA for Ruining College Football

[BillySee58]

On 12/21/2024 at 12:49 PM, Rudy said:

I'm pretty sure it was the Northwestern players that started all of this back in 2013 when they started to demand compensation. So yeah, the players are just as guilty. 

Do you side with the institutions over the laborers in every instance? Like when a union is on strike, do you blame the workers for the disruption and put no blame on corporate greed? Or do you just reserve your institution over laborer sentiment when it’s regarding college athletes?

[El Paso Eagle]

4 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Do you side with the institutions over the laborers in every instance? Like when a union is on strike, do you blame the workers for the disruption and put no blame on corporate greed? Or do you just reserve your institution over laborer sentiment when it’s regarding college athletes?

In some cases, it is very obvious who is at "fault", while at other times, there is plenty of blame to spread around. I do enjoy your fallback of corporate greed when it seems pretty amazing that whenever a corporation or industry is suffering severely and losing money most people don't seem as concerned. If you favor corporations sharing their profits(And I'm not saying that's wrong I'm in agreement with it), Do you also believe that those employees should take pay cuts when the corporations are not doing well and losing money? Or is it only a one-way street? So yes, many of the institutions are greedy as hell and have screwed this up, but we have also come up with a way of acting like the value of a scholarship and a free education and all of the perks athletes get should somehow not be considered in the way they are compensated.
This entire situation is screwed up between the NCAA, players, and the court systems that got involved. But we also have the game to where we're calling this profit sharing which is just about as much of sharing profit as in IL was about name image and likeness when it was actually about pay to play. I agree there's a lot that can be done, but please explain to me how you have profit sharing when the majority of the institutions are probably losing money, especially if you take away the mandated student fees.

[Rudy]

18 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Do you side with the institutions over the laborers in every instance? Like when a union is on strike, do you blame the workers for the disruption and put no blame on corporate greed? Or do you just reserve your institution over laborer sentiment when it’s regarding college athletes?

I'm not exactly sure how you get that from my saying the players are just as guilty, but ok...

[BillySee58]

8 minutes ago, Rudy said:

I'm not exactly sure how you get that from my saying the players are just as guilty, but ok...

Because you’re implying they’re “guilty” just by virtue of fighting for a more fair share of the revenue that they generate for the institutions. The NCAA did everything they could for as long as they could with regards to keeping these athletes classified as amateurs so that they could cap their compensation while the value of their labor skyrocketed. Describing the players as “guilty” in that situation is very clear pro-institution framing in this case.

[BillySee58]

20 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

In some cases, it is very obvious who is at "fault", while at other times, there is plenty of blame to spread around. I do enjoy your fallback of corporate greed when it seems pretty amazing that whenever a corporation or industry is suffering severely and losing money most people don't seem as concerned. If you favor corporations sharing their profits(And I'm not saying that's wrong I'm in agreement with it), Do you also believe that those employees should take pay cuts when the corporations are not doing well and losing money? Or is it only a one-way street? 

When corporations are struggling, the employees absolutely are the ones who have to take the pay cuts first, or suffer by being laid off. That is the ordering in times of corporate deficits far before “key personnel” compensation is cut.

[Rudy]

4 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Because you’re implying they’re “guilty” just by virtue of fighting for a more fair share of the revenue that they generate for the institutions. The NCAA did everything they could for as long as they could with regards to keeping these athletes classified as amateurs so that they could cap their compensation while the value of their labor skyrocketed. Describing the players as “guilty” in that situation is very clear pro-institution framing in this case.

um ok.  So you think this mess is "fair"?  yeah ok.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

18 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Because you’re implying they’re “guilty” just by virtue of fighting for a more fair share of the revenue that they generate for the institutions. The NCAA did everything they could for as long as they could with regards to keeping these athletes classified as amateurs so that they could cap their compensation while the value of their labor skyrocketed. Describing the players as “guilty” in that situation is very clear pro-institution framing in this case.

meh

[BillySee58]

21 minutes ago, Rudy said:

um ok.  So you think this mess is "fair"?  yeah ok.

Of course it’s not fair but it’s far closer than it was. Or are you saying it’s unfairly weighted towards the players over the institutions now? If so, explain how? Otherwise there’s just no substance behind anything you’re contending.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

3 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Of course it’s not fair but it’s far closer than it was. Or are you saying it’s unfairly weighted towards the players over the institutions now? If so, explain how? Otherwise there’s just no substance behind anything you’re contending.

Fair? We are talking about fair? Is show and tell up next at the top of the hour? 

[meaniegreenie]

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

NIL was a horrible idea that continues to destroy competition in sports

I don't see how anyone blames this mess on the athletes.  Sure they are going to do what is best for them, perfectly understandable.  

The NCAA should fight NIL, but apparently the leadership is a lot more interested in protecting the status quo and players than to listening to the fans.

Like has been said many times, there's plenty of blame to go around, BUT it's my understanding that the NIL concept originated with a player's lawsuit. In reality, it's probably a lawyer or agent type that got the idea and then used some players to advance it. 

[BillySee58]

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Fair? We are talking about fair? Is show and tell up next at the top of the hour? 

Yeah, go tell that to a union member on strike who is using the word “fair” to describe what they are fighting for through a collective bargaining process.

[GMG_Dallas]

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Yeah, go tell that to a union member on strike who is using the word “fair” to describe what they are fighting for through a collective bargaining process.

I don't have any issue with players being compensated as a whole. If you want argue it's more fair that it was, sure, for the players but not the fans. The issue with the current system is the NCAA isn't paying the players and the conferences/schools aren't paying their players through media deals. The current format is not employees getting paid from revenue as it would be with any pro league or corporation, it's employees getting paid from donations with no salary cap. There is no trickle down, just chaos. 

[wardly]

1 hour ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I don't have any issue with players being compensated as a whole. If you want argue it's more fair that it was, sure, for the players but not the fans. The issue with the current system is the NCAA isn't paying the players and the conferences/schools aren't paying their players through media deals. The current format is not employees getting paid from revenue as it would be with any pro league or corporation, it's employees getting paid from donations with no salary cap. There is no trickle down, just chaos. 

One of the problems might be is that the players are not employees but probably classified by the IRS as independent contractors. Even the big boys are seeking some type of control on the college era of " pay for play" which the NCAA legally has no control over[they also have no legal control over the portal].I certainly am not an attorney but perhaps if the players were classified as employees the universities could bring the NIL in house and require them to sign enforceable contracts otherwise the inmates will continue to run the asylum. If any barristers are in the house please comment.

[meaniegreenie]

5 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I don't have any issue with players being compensated as a whole. If you want argue it's more fair that it was, sure, for the players but not the fans. The issue with the current system is the NCAA isn't paying the players and the conferences/schools aren't paying their players through media deals. The current format is not employees getting paid from revenue as it would be with any pro league or corporation, it's employees getting paid from donations with no salary cap. There is no trickle down, just chaos. 

Especially when (and yes I keep harping on this same thing) the whole thing started because players were initially claiming they should have a share of the revenues generated from the use of their N.I.L. in broadcasts and video games.  It's interesting that the ONLY share they've gotten from those is the $600 EA Sports money and NO TV revenue. Regarding "trickle down", that's gonna' be hard to do when most schools are LOSING money on FB.

https://www.on3.com/nil/news/what-is-nil-everything-you-need-to-know-about-this-major-change-in-college-athletics/

You're right about the chaos and I'm all for MORE of it in order finally force some kind of sanity to this whole thing. 

 

[rojomojo]

15 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Like any market system, including capitalism, there are piles of regulations. Collegiate athletics need regulation. I know it doesn't fit your lib agenda on sticking it to the "old white people" tirade. Instead, communicate full circle and not in slanted drivel. Nevertheless, go back to celebrating Mario's brother. 

Good point. Well said

 

And Hell no... I do not want to live in a real life Clockwork Orange. Luigi can rot

Edited 21 hours ago by rojomojo

[GMG_Dallas]

6 hours ago, meaniegreenie said:

Especially when (and yes I keep harping on this same thing) the whole thing started because players were initially claiming they should have a share of the revenues generated from the use of their N.I.L. in broadcasts and video games.  It's interesting that the ONLY share they've gotten from those is the $600 EA Sports money and NO TV revenue. Regarding "trickle down", that's gonna' be hard to do when most schools are LOSING money on FB.

https://www.on3.com/nil/news/what-is-nil-everything-you-need-to-know-about-this-major-change-in-college-athletics/

You're right about the chaos and I'm all for MORE of it in order finally force some kind of sanity to this whole thing. 

 

I too am for more chaos. Eventually boosters will get tired or paying 13 million for a freshman QB just to go 8-4.

Back to the NIL part of the post, I think the trickle down stuff could happen but it's going to require more NCAA regulation backed by the legal system. If they made the conferences all regional and eliminated conference-specific media deals, I think it would be a huge step to giving equal media payouts across the board. The NCAA as a whole is a product but it's not treated as such. Can you imagine if the NFL allowed teams to get division-specific media deals and the teams just moved around all the time to join the teams with more value? Half the teams wouldn't survive on their smaller media deals. The NFL doesn't allow it because the Cowboys and 49ers aren't the product, NFL football is the product. The NCAA needs to do the same.

Regional conferences, equal media payouts, salary caps, true playoff with each regional conference champion. Give everybody an equal chance and you can do all of that.

[wardly]

3 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I too am for more chaos. Eventually boosters will get tired or paying 13 million for a freshman QB just to go 8-4.

Back to the NIL part of the post, I think the trickle down stuff could happen but it's going to require more NCAA regulation backed by the legal system. If they made the conferences all regional and eliminated conference-specific media deals, I think it would be a huge step to giving equal media payouts across the board. The NCAA as a whole is a product but it's not treated as such. Can you imagine if the NFL allowed teams to get division-specific media deals and the teams just moved around all the time to join the teams with more value? Half the teams wouldn't survive on their smaller media deals. The NFL doesn't allow it because the Cowboys and 49ers aren't the product, NFL football is the product. The NCAA needs to do the same.

Regional conferences, equal media payouts, salary caps, true playoff with each regional conference champion. Give everybody an equal chance and you can do all of that.

The NCAA is powerless to stop NIL or the Portal. They lost both cases in the courts as well as the recent JUCO decision. Their power started waning when Oklahoma successfully sued them regarding control of games that would be shown on t.v. Quite honestly I think the NCAA has lost it's usefulness.

[Coffee and TV]

Nobody blinks an eye when a guy moves up in the corporate world and jumps 3 or 4 times in 6 years, but when a college athlete does it for the same reason he's a greedy gus.

[GMG_Dallas]

1 hour ago, Coffee and TV said:

Nobody blinks an eye when a guy moves up in the corporate world and jumps 3 or 4 times in 6 years, but when a college athlete does it for the same reason he's a greedy gus.

Apples to oranges. Any pro athlete can't jump from team to team under contract unless it's bought out in some way. They want to be paid like pro athletes but not treated like pro athletes when it's an inconvenience or detrimental. By all means, pay them, but bring all the other baggage as well.

[GMG_Dallas]

2 hours ago, wardly said:

The NCAA is powerless to stop NIL or the Portal. They lost both cases in the courts as well as the recent JUCO decision. Their power started waning when Oklahoma successfully sued them regarding control of games that would be shown on t.v. Quite honestly I think the NCAA has lost it's usefulness.

I'm not smart enough to understand how college athletes can be treated like pro athletes when convenient but not treated like pro athletes when inconvenient.

[rcade]

I don't care about blame. There's enough to go around.

I'm fine with college football players being paid and them getting more transfer opportunities, but the way both of those things are currently implemented has been a Hindenburg-level disaster for college football.

Uncontrolled and unaccountable money from boosters and a transfer portal during the season are terrible ideas.

[meaniegreenie]

12 hours ago, Coffee and TV said:

Nobody blinks an eye when a guy moves up in the corporate world and jumps 3 or 4 times in 6 years, but when a college athlete does it for the same reason he's a greedy gus.

Sounds like you've never been one of the primary people leading a product to completion, only to have people you depended on leave to chase bigger $.  Just because people understand why they left doesn't mean that others aren't upset.