The market will adjust

Ross Hodgeson · December 10

It has to correct itself. They don't want to discourage all of the college football fans to the point they don't care about the sport anymore. I have a feeling they will ultimately start to reign in some of this insanity but it will take some of us refusing to pay for tickets and support the program via bowl attendance etc. Always follow the money.

El Paso Eagle · December 10

14 minutes ago, Ross Hodgeson said:

It has to correct itself. They don't want to discourage all of the college football fans to the point they don't care about the sport anymore. I have a feeling they will ultimately start to reign in some of this insanity but it will take some of us refusing to pay for tickets and support the program via bowl attendance etc. Always follow the money.

I would hope you're correct but I think the problem is the power conferences, especially the P2, only care about themselves and truly could not care less if all other levels of college football disappeared.

UNT86 · December 10

I only give to the MGSF. I will support NT players, but not NIL. I pay for the name on the front, not the name on the back. And when you leave, I won't miss you for a second. Somebody else will appreciate the chance to play here. I will root for them.

Andrew · December 10

7 minutes ago, UNT86 said:

I only give to the MGSF. I will support NT players, but not NIL. I pay for the name on the front, not the name on the back. And when you leave, I won't miss you for a second. Somebody else will appreciate the chance to play here. I will root for them.

Amen.

All About UNT · December 10

1 hour ago, UNT86 said:

I only give to the MGSF. I will support NT players, but not NIL. I pay for the name on the front, not the name on the back. And when you leave, I won't miss you for a second. Somebody else will appreciate the chance to play here. I will root for them.

Until they show any type of above-average skill and leave? The wash and rinse/ reload shit is getting annoying... I barely learned this year's rosters (both FB and BB) and expect that they will all be gone at the EOY.

FirefightnRick · December 10

2 hours ago, Ross Hodgeson said:

It has to correct itself. They don't want to discourage all of the college football fans to the point they don't care about the sport anymore. I have a feeling they will ultimately start to reign in some of this insanity but it will take some of us refusing to pay for tickets and support the program via bowl attendance etc. Always follow the money.

Did you see the 109,000 plus at the Texas-Texas A&M game? You think they care? You think Disney/ESPN who line the pockets of the NCAA power brokers with billions care if next years A&M-Texas game only has 105,000?

The system is set to keep the same top 15 schools hoarding the money and players every year, and that’s how they want it.

Rick

Dannymacfan · December 10

6 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Did you see the 109,000 plus at the Texas-Texas A&M game? You think they care? You think Disney/ESPN who line the pockets of the NCAA power brokers with billions care if next years A&M-Texas game only has 105,000?

The system is set to keep the same top 15 schools hoarding the money and players every year, and that’s how they want it.

Rick

Great post Rick. I wish I knew what the solution was. Boise seems to have figured it out as a G5 playoff team. I guess they are the example of what can be achieved with a lower budget.

emmitt01 · December 10

11 minutes ago, Dannymacfan said:

Great post Rick. I wish I knew what the solution was. Boise seems to have figured it out as a G5 playoff team. I guess they are the example of what can be achieved with a lower budget.

Enjoy watching them this year. The system is designed to scavenge their roster and ensure they don’t threaten the “elites” for long.

emmitt01 · December 10

And take a look at Alabama, right after they were left out of the “playoff”.

https://www.on3.com/college/alabama-crimson-tide/transfer-portal/wire/football/

Or aTm

https://www.on3.com/college/texas-am-aggies/transfer-portal/wire/football/

Edited December 10 by emmitt01

MeanGreen22 · December 10

8 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Did you see the 109,000 plus at the Texas-Texas A&M game? You think they care? You think Disney/ESPN who line the pockets of the NCAA power brokers with billions care if next years A&M-Texas game only has 105,000?

The system is set to keep the same top 15 schools hoarding the money and players every year, and that’s how they want it.

Rick

And that's why everyone below that line needs to stop fighting it and let them have their little members only club. They are going to get their way so go on the offensive and push them away while you still have the little power you have left. Create player contracts with buyout clauses. Create a system of promotion/relegation amongst yourselves. Regionalize your divisions to bring back what college football used to be and why people fell in love with it. If the SEC/Big10 wants to be NFL-lite, fine. Go away and let us have our fun.

southsideguy · December 10

Maybe the rich teams should start paying the lesser teams money when they sigh players off the portal to help pay back the farm systems. we could have franchise players lol.

untjim1995 · December 10

9 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Did you see the 109,000 plus at the Texas-Texas A&M game? You think they care? You think Disney/ESPN who line the pockets of the NCAA power brokers with billions care if next years A&M-Texas game only has 105,000?

The system is set to keep the same top 15 schools hoarding the money and players every year, and that’s how they want it.

Rick

To further back you up, since over the last 60 years, there are exactly 20 programs that have won a NCAA Football Championship via the AP, then the BCS Championship, and the current playoff title. Of those 20, 2 are complete outliers--BYU in 1984 and Colorado in 1991. Three schools, Pitt, Tennessee, adn Auburn each won a title in this time frame but has won titles in the decade's past. The other 55 titles have been won by 15 programs.

Alabama, Georgia, Florida, FSU, Miami, Clemson, Penn State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, LSU, Texas, and USC.

Obviously, others can claim a UPI/Coaches' Poll title, such as Washington, Georgia Tech, Arkansas, etc...but the main title holders are listed above.

When it's all said and done, I expect that the future culling of the top end of college football to be as little as 24 schools or up to 48. It will be the top end of programs that are in these big conferences. So, if you are Rutgers, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, other middle or smaller B1G/SEC programs. most of the northern ACC schools, almost all of the Big 12, and many others will be playing at a different level than they currently do...and it will be glorious to see. LEt them go.

Censored by Laurie · December 10

2 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

To further back you up, since over the last 60 years, there are exactly 20 programs that have won a NCAA Football Championship via the AP, then the BCS Championship, and the current playoff title. Of those 20, 2 are complete outliers--BYU in 1984 and Colorado in 1991. Three schools, Pitt, Tennessee, adn Auburn each won a title in this time frame but has won titles in the decade's past. The other 55 titles have been won by 15 programs.

Alabama, Georgia, Florida, FSU, Miami, Clemson, Penn State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, LSU, Texas, and USC.

Obviously, others can claim a UPI/Coaches' Poll title, such as Washington, Georgia Tech, Arkansas, etc...but the main title holders are listed above.

When it's all said and done, I expect that the future culling of the top end of college football to be as little as 24 schools or up to 48. It will be the top end of programs that are in these big conferences. So, if you are Rutgers, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, other middle or smaller B1G/SEC programs. most of the northern ACC schools, almost all of the Big 12, and many others will be playing at a different level than they currently do...and it will be glorious to see. LEt them go.

so, basically a literal Premier League of college football. all this current era has done has done is put christmas lights around the high-gated fence that has always existed so that those still deluding themselves into the idea they might get an invite to the party could more clearly see they're not welcome.

there will eventually be "investor" fatigue...first at the fringes of the P4, then pretty quickly at all but a small handful of programs when even the elite start to see how much money they've thrown into effing college football with no return on their investment.

in the meantime, the best thing that UNT could be doing is trying to consolidate regional relationships with anyone not listed above.

and the fanbase would do well from learning to measure expectations and their metric of success. European soccer is an ideal example...England has more than 100 professional teams. 3...maybe 4 have a legit chance of the Premier League title...so fans throughout the country set different expectations and definitely do not constantly try to belittle the little moments of fleeting sports joy that they do get...like say, a bowl appearance.

DentonLurker · December 10

15 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

Maybe the rich teams should start paying the lesser teams money when they sigh players off the portal to help pay back the farm systems. we could have franchise players lol.

I keep waiting for something like this to happen. Some G5 coach will just make a deal with a P2 like UT where they get the guys for 2 years that the P2 wants in 2 years. A true baseball-type farm system.

MeanGreenTexan · December 10

6 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

so, basically a literal Premier League of college football. all this current era has done has done is put christmas lights around the high-gated fence that has always existed so that those still deluding themselves into the idea they might get an invite to the party could more clearly see they're not welcome.

there will eventually be "investor" fatigue...first at the fringes of the P4, then pretty quickly at all but a small handful of programs when even the elite start to see how much money they've thrown into effing college football with no return on their investment.

in the meantime, the best thing that UNT could be doing is trying to consolidate regional relationships with anyone not listed above.

and the fanbase would do well from learning to measure expectations and their metric of success. European soccer is an ideal example...England has more than 100 professional teams. 3...maybe 4 have a legit chance of the Premier League title...so fans throughout the country set different expectations and definitely do not constantly try to belittle the little moments of fleeting sports joy that they do get...like say, a bowl appearance.

Promotion/Relegation will never happen in college athletics though. It can't even happen in MLS. No one who's currently at the Big Boy table would allow themselves to even have a remote possibility of moving down.

...as awesome as that would be.

And, as long as a team like Boise St. is hanging around getting 1st round byes in the playoff, there's always chances for outlier G5 programs to crash the party, so that proverbial fence definitely has a gate somewhere.

97and03 · December 10

2 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

I keep waiting for something like this to happen. Some G5 coach will just make a deal with a P2 like UT where they get the guys for 2 years that the P2 wants in 2 years. A true baseball-type farm system.

Ever been to a minor league baseball game? Lots of fun. Maybe it’s the future and we need to embrace it and over that same type of crazy game environment? 🤷🏻‍♂️

DentonLurker · December 10

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

as long as a team like Boise St. is hanging around getting 1st round byes in the playoff

Except I think the Boise first round bye is going to be a one year experiment. The big boys are going to change it probably the day after the NC game. It’s going to be the Top 4 ranked teams starting next year.

Censored by Laurie · December 10

9 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Promotion/Relegation will never happen in college athletics though.

I get that (agreed, unfortunately)...I used the reference more as a good reference for how fans could/should adjusting the expectations of "success".

for some Prem teams, this year's main goal is simply avoiding relegation...maybe here that means avoiding a losing season
for other mid-table teams it's finishing in the top half...call that 8-4 and a decent bowl appearance
others have hopes of Champions/Europa league qualification or a domestic cup win...maybe that's 9-3 and a bowl win

for every modicum of success we've had here in my 25 years associated with UNT...4 NOLA Bowl trips, NCAA tourney games, a Tourney win, an NIT win, Bowl wins, memorable regular season wins like Arkansas in football or OSU in basketball...I promise there have been those here quick to dismiss and downplay them as "not enough".

CMJ · December 10

54 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

To further back you up, since over the last 60 years, there are exactly 20 programs that have won a NCAA Football Championship via the AP, then the BCS Championship, and the current playoff title. Of those 20, 2 are complete outliers--BYU in 1984 and Colorado in 1991. Three schools, Pitt, Tennessee, adn Auburn each won a title in this time frame but has won titles in the decade's past. The other 55 titles have been won by 15 programs.

Alabama, Georgia, Florida, FSU, Miami, Clemson, Penn State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, LSU, Texas, and USC.

Obviously, others can claim a UPI/Coaches' Poll title, such as Washington, Georgia Tech, Arkansas, etc...but the main title holders are listed above.

When it's all said and done, I expect that the future culling of the top end of college football to be as little as 24 schools or up to 48. It will be the top end of programs that are in these big conferences. So, if you are Rutgers, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, other middle or smaller B1G/SEC programs. most of the northern ACC schools, almost all of the Big 12, and many others will be playing at a different level than they currently do...and it will be glorious to see. LEt them go.

Even with the egalitarian NCAA Basketball tournament where everyone gets a shot in if you win your league, it's not THAT much different. There are more one offs to be sure (though most aren't like a UTEP/Texas Western -- Syracuse has been hanging around the top of the sport for multiple decades, it's sorta shocking they only have one title). Eleven schools have won 48 of the championships in that same time frame.

Edited December 10 by CMJ

MeanGreenTexan · December 10

1 minute ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I get that (agreed, unfortunately)...I used the reference more as a good reference for how fans could/should adjusting the expectations of "success".

for some Prem teams, this year's main goal is simply avoiding relegation...maybe here that means avoiding a losing season
for other mid-table teams it's finishing in the top half...call that 8-4 and a decent bowl appearance
others have hopes of Champions/Europa league qualification or a domestic cup win...maybe that's 9-3 and a bowl win

for every modicum of success we've had here in my 25 years associated with UNT...4 NOLA Bowl trips, NCAA tourney games, a Tourney win, an NIT win, Bowl wins, memorable regular season wins like Arkansas in football or OSU in basketball...I promise there have been those here quick to dismiss and downplay them as "not enough".

So since we've clawed our way up to the AAC, we're like a Palace or Everton in your scenario. Safe enough to stay out of the bottom 3, but not really looking to actually be a player for a title.
However, as long as there's a slight opportunity for a 2016 Leicester City run, we can't/shouldn't abandon the system as it stands.

untjim1995 · December 10

7 minutes ago, CMJ said:

Even with the egalitarian NCAA Basketball tournament where everyone gets a shot in if you win your league, it's not THAT much different. There are more one offs to be sure (though most aren't like a UTEP/Texas Western -- Syracuse has been hanging around the top of the sport for multiple decades, it's sorta shocking they only have one title). Eleven schools have won 48 of the championships.

Exactly. Over the last 61 years, UCLA, UConn, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, Villanova, Indiana, MIchigan State, Florida, Louisville and NC State have finished #1 at the end of the season 52 times. Then, you have a school like Michigan that won a title to add to their two football titles. That's 12 teams in hoops only, then add in the 15 teams that have won multiple titles in football.

UTEP, Marquette, Georgetown, UNLV, Arkansas, Arizona, Maryland, Syracuse, Virginia, and Baylor are the ones who won one title. UTEP is the clear outlier (from 1965), but all of the other teams listed have all gone to the Elite Eight or farther in other tournaments to balance out their title. Quite honestly, the entire NCAA could cover about 40 schools and get all of the champions of their two main sports. But its schools like A&M that have such giant football programs and money that they will always be included in any kind of setup of top tier programs, even with no championships in these two sports.

Censored by Laurie · December 10

32 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

So since we've clawed our way up to the AAC, we're like a Palace or Everton in your scenario. Safe enough to stay out of the bottom 3, but not really looking to actually be a player for a title.
However, as long as there's a slight opportunity for a 2016 Leicester City run, we can't/shouldn't abandon the system as it stands.

More or less, yes. That Leicester City thing is such an outlier…I guess that’s maybe the equivalent of like UCF crashing the top 4…but on such an unprecedented scale that it’s hard to quantify.

Another parallel here is that throughout Europe, there are clubs renowned for their development…Ajax, Dortmund, et al…they’re deemed as “selling” clubs as eventually the elite pick off that talent, but they sustain on-field success through a balance of youth and smart senior recruitment.

As more power conference rely on transfers, more top incoming freshmen become available…early playing time at a school like UNT should become a more and more appealing pitch to HS seniors, even if the idea is that they’ll only stay a season or two. Balance a starting 22 with some experienced transfers and some higher than usual level freshmen and you could end up with exciting and consistent winning football

emmitt01 · December 10

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Promotion/Relegation will never happen in college athletics though. It can't even happen in MLS. No one who's currently at the Big Boy table would allow themselves to even have a remote possibility of moving down.

...as awesome as that would be.

And, as long as a team like Boise St. is hanging around getting 1st round byes in the playoff, there's always chances for outlier G5 programs to crash the party, so that proverbial fence definitely has a gate somewhere.

The fence doesn't have a gate though, it has the illusion of a gate. And that illusion is kept around for two reasons:

1) Most importantly to the "elites", it keeps programs like North Texas (and their fans) believing that "if we just do this or that and get things to break right, we could actually compete for a championship." It's why you hear asinine things from G5 coaches like "our end of year goal, a national championship, is what we strive for." Every team in G5 is the nerd that is told that, if they play their cards right, they might get invited to the prom queen's post-prom party...because maybe, just maybe, she'll finally admit she's loved us all along. 🙄

2) If you pretend your system has a way for the little guys to compete for a championship, you hamstring the most glaring anti-trust arguments. "Your honor, we haven't built a monopoly in college football, just look at Boise that we let play in the first round of the playoff"

emmitt01 · December 10

3 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

More or less, yes. That Leicester City thing is such an outlier…I guess that’s maybe the equivalent of like UCF crashing the top 4…but on such an unprecedented scale that it’s hard to quantify.

Another parallel here is that throughout Europe, there are clubs renowned for their development…Ajax, Dortmund, et al…they’re deemed as “selling” clubs as eventually the elite pick off that talent, but they sustain on-field success through a balance of youth and smart senior recruitment.

As more power conference rely on transfers, more top incoming freshmen become available…early playing time at a school like UNT should become a more and more appealing pitch to HS seniors, even if the idea is that they’ll only stay a season or two. Balance a starting 22 with some experienced transfers and some higher than usual level freshmen and you could end up with exciting and consistent winning football

But even that isn't a truly apples to apples comparison. Ajax can point back in their history (granted back before the current generation of fans that only remember life pre and post Ronaldo) and point to Champions League titles. North Texas has no such history to cling to, and yet we still don't want to abandon a system that has been shown, time and time again, to not truly include us.

Censored by Laurie · December 10

5 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

But even that isn't a truly apples to apples comparison. Ajax can point back in their history (granted back before the current generation of fans that only remember life pre and post Ronaldo) and point to Champions League titles. North Texas has no such history to cling to, and yet we still don't want to abandon a system that has been shown, time and time again, to not truly include us.

I mean, I’m comparing mid-tier college football and European soccer…there probably isn’t just an exact apples to apples here, more just the concept. Clubs throughout the Dutch, Belgian, Danish leagues have the same rep without near the history of Ajax.