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Bye Bye Chandler Morris

GMG24

By GMG24
in Mean Green Football

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akriesman
akriesman

In the past, I would have been shocked and very upset at losing a top player. Now, I just expect it.   I just don't care about college sports that much anymore and that is very sad.

KingDL1
KingDL1

And now, the dam will break. I expect to lose all our top players. The NCAA should be sued. 

untbowler
untbowler

kick rocks, put his stuff on the curb once classes done this semester. Do not allow access to facilities to players no longer staying. 

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Cooley Mentor

Cooley

Posted
Posted
  On 12/9/2024 at 8:03 PM, keith said:

What's our fascination with short QBs?  He's listed as 5'10", but I've also seen 5'9", so he's probably 5'8".  Of course, our last 5'8" QB was pretty good.

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You just answered your question. We will always get the talented undersize players. 

RBP79 Grand Master

RBP79

Posted
Posted

What other 40000+ enrollment university is a FCS member?

What drew me back to attending NT Football in the 90's was Matt Simon's  push to get back into FBS.

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Cooley Mentor

Cooley

Posted
Posted
  On 12/9/2024 at 11:13 PM, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I don't understand the shots being taken at Mestemaker because he is a walk-on.  Didn't Georgia recently win back-to-back national titles with a walk-on QB.  And for me, walk-ons are the perfect antidote to all these "me-me-me" NIL whores.

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Lets just move down to Division III where everyone walks on.

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Cougar King Mentor

Cougar King

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2024 at 3:23 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

If the NIL collectives are offering Chandler $500k, do you think that amount plus some of momma's home cookin' would get THIS GUY  back home for a rehab season (or maybe THIS GUY for a super-Senior season)?

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https://www.247sports.com/article/former-liberty-star-qb-kaidon-salter-plans-trio-of-visits-as-he-maps-out-transfer-portal-recruitment-241670028/amp/

 

You'll have to outbid Colorado, Florida State and Syracuse for Salter

 

 

You'll have to outbid Mississippi State for Arnold

 

 

Its not impossibile but that's the nature of the best today. If UNT wants to play with the big boys, get that big package ready for one of them asap.

 

 

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TXSTFB_Fan Newbie

TXSTFB_Fan

Posted
Posted
  On 12/9/2024 at 7:41 PM, untjim1995 said:

UTSA has a giant advantage of us and others in the AAC. They are in a pro market with no pro football team, a huge city with a strong civic pride—like a bigger version of Fort Worth.

Denton will NEVER be this for UNT. You can try to make them do it or believe they’ll want to do it,  but they’ll just disappoint you.

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Nobody cares about UTSA anymore in San Antonio. In fact, we're starting to care less and less about professional sports, which now includes college football.

FirefightnRick Mentor

FirefightnRick

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2024 at 3:00 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

The US Court System stripped the NCAA of any/all power they ever had, and will continue to do so.
I'm struggling to see how a "new collegiate alliance" will somehow be immune from those same court rulings, and escape all of the same problems?   
The only thing we'd be doing in that scenario is voluntarily removing ourselves from the official "collegiate alliance", and placing ourselves in the loser bracket.

 


There are some really stupid-rich people out there.    Just so much money that 100k is "spending cash" like you or me going to Home Depot for a new pneumatic tool or something.   Unfortunately, UNT doesn't have very many of those guys, and the ones we do have are already contributing quite a bit.

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The court ruling says nothing that prevents from getting out from under the thumb of the mouse and form a new alliance that allows us to invoke rules and contractual obligations like normal business entities run on.

 

Rick

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MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2024 at 6:17 PM, FirefightnRick said:

The court ruling says nothing that prevents from getting out from under the thumb of the mouse and form a new alliance that allows us to invoke rules and contractual obligations like normal business entities run on.

 

Rick

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So, the "new alliance" is going to go back to pre-NIL, pre-transfer portal NCAA rules?  And running it on contracts with the players? 
Is that the angle?
I'm sorry, but unless you like intramural football, you won't enjoy this "new alliance".   There will be little-to-no talent coming to play in that scenario.

This idea does not seem to be thought through completely.

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Green Otaku Grand Master

Green Otaku

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2024 at 6:22 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

So, the "new alliance" is going to go back to pre-NIL, pre-transfer portal NCAA rules?  And running it on contracts with the players? 
Is that the angle?
I'm sorry, but unless you like intramural football, you won't enjoy this "new alliance".   There will be little-to-no talent coming to play in that scenario.

This idea does not seem to be thought through completely.

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Agree, there would be a huge drop off of the type of players we would be able to get. What people like FFR need to get is the only way FB goes back to pre-NIL is no more games on TV. With the way the court rulings are in place now you can't use a player's image to profit, ie: commercials, media deals, sports show highlights, etc., without them getting compensation. What players are going to go from highlighted on the national level to none?

It also blows my mind that people who lived through the drop to 2A and saw the consequences it created want to repeat the same thing.

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Green Lantern Veteran

Green Lantern

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2024 at 4:45 AM, GrandGreen said:

Why do you think NT has money in the budget to increase NIL?  If you are not aware, most of NT funds come from student fees, it is certainly not profits from athletics.  

Students are funding the vast majority of money to compete in sports.  So you are advocating that students, most that never go to a NT athletic event, willingly give more money to athletes.  Press it and someone will call for the recall of student funding for a foundering athletic program.  

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What I’m saying is that with an annual budget with revenues of $858,492,640 for FY 2023 like UNT had, that it is completely absurd for the institution to be asking people like you and I to be funding player salaries - and make no mistake that’s exactly what NIL is. If we wanted to put aside $3,000,000 a year from the annual budget for player salaries, that would constitute .35% of the total revenue generated.

Having worked at UNT for 16 years previously, I know how much waste, bloat, and inefficiency is all through the institution and system. We could come up with $3,000,000 a year in wasted, unneeded, consultant fees and barely scratch the surface of what’s available. It’s not a matter of resources being available, it would simply be the will to allocate differently. My suggestion is to allow Universities in FBS to pay players directly from the annual university budget, allocate it directly to Athletics to distribute to athletes as employees of the university, and overall treat it as a sunk cost marketing expenditure - as athletics on TV weekly is basically just advertising for the schools.

As for student fees, well there’s a whole pile of mandatory fees the universities impose onto students for all types of services most students don’t utilize at all. No one forces anyone to attend an institution of higher education. Don’t like the fee structure at UNT, find another place. Maybe UH, Tech, Tx State ect are more to your liking? But I doubt it.

IMG_7106.png

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TIgreen01 Veteran

TIgreen01

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2024 at 6:22 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

So, the "new alliance" is going to go back to pre-NIL, pre-transfer portal NCAA rules?  And running it on contracts with the players? 
Is that the angle?
I'm sorry, but unless you like intramural football, you won't enjoy this "new alliance".   There will be little-to-no talent coming to play in that scenario.

This idea does not seem to be thought through completely.

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Why would they not come?  You're talking about going from a 1 year deal today to a multi-year contract.  That's what I think would have to happen.  So, a kid is offered a 3 or 4 year deal.  UNT is on the hook to pay him whether he pans out or not.  That's better than possibly be out of a scholarship after one year if the staff wants to push me out (today that's happening just as much as players choosing to leave on their own).

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Green Otaku Grand Master

Green Otaku

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2024 at 6:40 PM, Green Lantern said:

What I’m saying is that with an annual budget with revenues of $858,492,640 for FY 2023 like UNT had, that it is completely absurd for the institution to be asking people like you and I to be funding player salaries - and make no mistake that’s exactly what NIL is. If we wanted to put aside $3,000,000 a year from the annual budget for player salaries, that would constitute .35% of the total revenue generated.

Having worked at UNT for 16 years previously, I know how much waste, bloat, and inefficiency is all through the institution and system. We could come up with $3,000,000 a year in wasted, unneeded, consultant fees and barely scratch the surface of what’s available. It’s not a matter of resources being available, it would simply be the will to allocate differently. My suggestion is to allow Universities in FBS to pay players directly from the annual university budget, allocate it directly to Athletics to distribute to athletes as employees of the university, and overall treat it as a sunk cost marketing expenditure - as athletics on TV weekly is basically just advertising for the schools.

As for student fees, well there’s a whole pile of mandatory fees the universities impose onto students for all types of services most students don’t utilize at all. No one forces anyone to attend an institution of higher education. Don’t like the fee structure at UNT, find another place. Maybe UH, Tech, Tx State ect are more to your liking? But I doubt it.

IMG_7106.png

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That's sort of being addressed in the new House v. NCAA case we keep hearing about. Eseentially they want to move NIL inside the athletic departments and allow schools to directly pay players, they will also have up to 20% revenue sharing from the athletic budget.

https://www.ropesgray.com/en/insights/alerts/2024/11/ncaa-proposed-settlement-receives-preliminary-approval

This part is particularly interesting, as it seems they are trying to stop some of the bloated NIL deals:

  Quote

Like the Original Settlement, the Amended Settlement allows the NCAA and the former Power Five college athletics conferences to prohibit Associated Entities or Individuals from making NIL payments to “current or prospective student-athletes unless the license/payment is for a valid business purpose related to the promotion or endorsement of goods or services . . . at rates and terms commensurate with compensation paid to similarly situated individuals with comparable NIL value.”11 The purpose of this provision in both the Original Settlement and Amended Settlement is to prevent “pay-for-play” deals between third parties and student-athletes that are disguised as NIL payments.11 The inclusion of language related to the “promotion or endorsement of goods or services” at rates “paid to similarly situated individuals” clarifies that a third party may not make an irrationally large offer to a student-athlete that goes beyond the reasonable value of that student-athlete’s NIL. The reason to make such an offer would no longer be for the value of the NIL, but instead for the student-athlete’s performance for a particular institution (i.e., pay-for-play). Student-athletes may receive payments for performance under their school’s revenue sharing model, but the settlement prevents affluent third parties from circumventing the revenue sharing cap and other restrictions through oversized payments. By including this language and continuing to prohibit pay-for-play payments from third parties, the NCAA is likely trying to find the balance between the former model of amateurism and the new era of student-athlete compensation.

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MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2024 at 6:58 PM, TIgreen01 said:

Why would they not come?  You're talking about going from a 1 year deal today to a multi-year contract.  That's what I think would have to happen.  So, a kid is offered a 3 or 4 year deal.  UNT is on the hook to pay him whether he pans out or not.  That's better than possibly be out of a scholarship after one year if the staff wants to push me out (today that's happening just as much as players choosing to leave on their own).

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Wait, I don't think you're speaking for FFR here.   This seems like another tangential idea.

But in your scenario... you're saying UNT is going to have enough NIL funding to GUARANTEE (contractually) 3 or 4 years worth of money for each and every player that comes through here, even if they're not good?   This sounds even more expensive than what we're currently doing... and for lesser-quality players.
Again, not thought-out very far.

FirefightnRick Mentor

FirefightnRick

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 12/10/2024 at 6:22 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

So, the "new alliance" is going to go back to pre-NIL, pre-transfer portal NCAA rules?  And running it on contracts with the players? 
Is that the angle?
I'm sorry, but unless you like intramural football, you won't enjoy this "new alliance".   There will be little-to-no talent coming to play in that scenario.

This idea does not seem to be thought through completely.

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No, there can be NIL and transfer portal.  There will just be rules set in place for them.  Or we can just keep doing the same and sit on our hands and watch this shit show continue.

 

Rick

Edited by FirefightnRick
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MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2024 at 8:04 PM, FirefightnRick said:

No, there can be NIL and transfer portal.  There will just be rules set in place for them.  Or we can just keep doing the same and sit on our hands and watch this shit show continue.

 

Rick

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OK... then what's the difference between status quo VS what you're proposing that couldn't be attacked and forced to be changed by the courts when players inevitably sue?

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TIgreen01 Veteran

TIgreen01

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 12/10/2024 at 7:02 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

Wait, I don't think you're speaking for FFR here.   This seems like another tangential idea.

But in your scenario... you're saying UNT is going to have enough NIL funding to GUARANTEE (contractually) 3 or 4 years worth of money for each and every player that comes through here, even if they're not good?   This sounds even more expensive than what we're currently doing... and for lesser-quality players.
Again, not thought-out very far.

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I'm more talking along the lines that Green Lantern and Green Otako are.  Move the entire thing into the AD.  Make them paid employees and pay them out of our general budget.  I think that's probably coming to all of the NCAA schools, so I don't know that splitting out will be necessary.  However, if not everyone is on-board, we should join the side that is.  

I tend to think that splitting is more risky than staying where we are.  What would not be good would be for us to split from the football factory schools and then have them enact rules that essentially eliminate roster size limits or create actual barriers to competition that are not easily overcome from the outside.  I'm of the opinion that we need to continue to have a seat at the table, be in on the conversation and are continuing to drive it to a place that works for us.  Not a fan of taking my ball and going home.

Edited by TIgreen01
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Shark84 Mentor

Shark84

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 12/10/2024 at 12:59 AM, Green Lantern said:

Because the whole system is flat ridiculous. Why should the fans have to directly fund “NIL” ie player salaries? These Universities- UNT included - have $600M+ a year annual budgets. Make the schools pay for all of this shit that literally no fans of any school asked for. Cut down the ridiculous coaching salaries and administrative bloat and pay the players with that.  The system needs to be changed fundamentally, not ratcheting up pressure on schools fanbases to be complicit in this nonsense.

There is no transparency in the NIL world. Just put $$$ in a pool and hope the Collective Leadership are effective sales people and good stewards of those funds? No thanks!

UNT would be better off if we could just flat pay players out of the University’s annual budget. It’s now a University Marketing expense. Problem solved for UNT and every other school out there.

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As a pro sports fan, I don't pay money for the players on the teams I root for. They get my money in team apparel, tickets, parking, consessions, ect.  Since college athletes are now professionals, getting paid and free college room and board, I don't see why I should have to pay into an NIL for them. Go out and get corporate sponsors like the pros do. Coca cola, Miller, Peterbilt, Acme brick, ect. Someone is making a ton of money from ESPN, ABC, Fox and CBS for the rights to show these college games. 

Edited by Shark84
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