Cotton, Vice And Mason

[SUMG]

One thing I really hate about the portal.....is that each year we re-load, with a bunch of juniors and seniors from other teams. Which is, I guess, the only way to go. 

But man.....it sure seems like the freshmen don't get much development.

Cotton sat out all last year......and is getting token minutes this year.

A guy who knows hoops better than anyone......told me that Vice should be getting "heavy minutes." 

And Tyrann lead all of Dallas in scoring last year. This is a team, that can be offensively-challenged.

Not trying to second guess anyone....just saying that I'd like to see these guys get more PT. 

 

[GMG_Dallas]

Wonder if our freshman development had anything to do with this guy going back on his commitment... eventually our refusal to play young guys will become a trend and the good ones will stop committing to this staff.

[Censored by Laurie]

Ross, like Grant before him, seem to lock into a rotation in pre-season and only injuries can alter that throughout the season. I have a hard time believing we'll see anything more than spot minutes for these three until until maybe when we hit that mediocre home-stand right before Christmas. the loyalty to Sissoko as a starting center is the most infuriating 

that said, I'm not really super worried about any of these underclassmen leaving...either they can't actually force their way into the rotation, which as mentioned looks pretty offensively challenged right now and/or they're only option will be to transfer down. 

[Glory to the Green]

2 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Wonder if our freshman development had anything to do with this guy going back on his commitment...

IIRC, his grandfather got sick. We released him of his commitment to allow him to play closer to home. We did him and his family a solid. 

[GMG_Dallas]

4 minutes ago, Glory to the Green said:

IIRC, his grandfather got sick. We released him of his commitment to allow him to play closer to home. We did him and his family a solid. 

Fair enough. I also wonder about Christian Moore. Arkansas Pine Bluff has struggled with a tough schedule which includes Cincinnati, Missouri, Texas Tech, USF, and Tulsa. He was 9/15 against Texas Tech in a game where he scored 20. He's hit double figures in I believe all but 2 games. Looks like most of their starters were benched midway through the Mizzou game. Hard to say if he's a capable starter at our level considering they've played up in competition but he would have been a good spark plug off the bench here. Just don't be surprised when more of our young guys leave and contribute elsewhere.

[Glory to the Green]

Just now, GMG_Dallas said:

Fair enough. I also wonder about Christian Moore. Arkansas Pine Bluff has struggled with a tough schedule which includes Cincinnati, Missouri, Texas Tech, USF, and Tulsa. He was 9/15 against Texas Tech in a game where he scored 20. He's hit double figures in I believe all but 2 games. Looks like most of their starters were benched midway through the Mizzou game. Hard to say if he's a capable starter at our level considering they've played up in competition but he would have been a good spark plug off the bench here. Just don't be surprised when more of our young guys leave and contribute elsewhere.

I get it. Our young player development has been lacking.  I thought Moore had potential, but he never really got a chance on game days. Mason looked the part the first few games..not sure why he’s not getting more PT. 

[Green Otaku]

Agree, I would like to see some of these guys get some meaningful minutes just to see what they have. It's hard since we don't see them in practice every day like Hodge does.

[NT80]

I would also like to see Vice and Mason get more minutes.   They looked good in the limited action I saw them.  

Senior privilege minutes for Sissoko and Stone are at the expense of better players.

[GMG_Dallas]

3 hours ago, Glory to the Green said:

I get it. Our young player development has been lacking.  I thought Moore had potential, but he never really got a chance on game days. Mason looked the part the first few games..not sure why he’s not getting more PT. 

It'd be one thing if we had some elite scoring options getting minutes but we don’t. We have a clear hole in the post and clearly need more scoring off the bench. I fear we'll finish around 18-20 wins like last year when I think this team could do better. I really hope I'm wrong.

[MeanGreenZen]

The team is 5-1 with wins against Minnesota and Oregon State. Ross knows what he is doing. Experienced guards win college basketball games.
There is no incentive to develop players at North Texas anymore. Either these young guys are good enough to crack the 8/9 man rotation or they are not.
If you start playing more guys than that then your BEST players get pissed about their playing time and that can mess with their effort and winning chemistry. 
Christian Moore had several years to crack the regular rotation here and couldn’t do it. 
Ross sees Vice in practice every day. If he helped us win more than Sissoko or Newell, I guarantee he would be playing. 
As for Layne Taylor, if Ross offered him, he must be good. But he is putting up points on a lower level 2-4 team that lost to BYU and Utah by 40 points each. If he keeps playing well and knows how to hustle on defense, he might get promoted to the big leagues in Denton for his junior and senior seasons.

Edited 17 hours ago by MeanGreenZen

[GMG_Dallas]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenZen said:

The team is 5-1 with wins against Minnesota and Oregon State. Ross knows what he is doing. Experienced guards win college basketball games.
There is no incentive to develop players at North Texas anymore. Either these young guys are good enough to crack the 8/9 man rotation or they are not.
If you start playing more guys than that then your BEST players get pissed about their playing time and that can mess with their effort and winning chemistry. 
Christian Moore had several years to crack the regular rotation here and couldn’t do it. 
Ross sees Vice in practice every day. If he helped us win more than Sissoko or Newell, I guarantee he would be playing. 
As for Layne Taylor, if Ross offered him, he must be good. But he is putting up points on a lower level 2-4 team that lost to BYU and Utah by 40 points each. If he keeps playing well and knows how to hustle on defense, he might get promoted to the big leagues in Denton for his junior and senior seasons.

Not being capable and not being given a legitimate opportunity are two different things. Moore never got a legitimate chance in my opinion. I don't think Taylor would have been given a legitimate chance either just like I don't believe Vice, Cotton, and Mason are being given legitimate opportunities to showcase themselves. We had a 20 point lead the entire second have against Evansville. They couldn't get in for 5-10 minutes with the members of the main rotation to see how they perform? Would be nice to know what we have if a main player goes down...

[Censored by Laurie]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

The team is 5-1 with wins against Minnesota and Oregon State. Ross knows what he is doing. Experienced guards win college basketball games.
There is no incentive to develop players at North Texas anymore. Either these young guys are good enough to crack the 8/9 man rotation or they are not.
If you start playing more guys than that then your BEST players get pissed about their playing time and that can mess with their effort and winning chemistry. 
Christian Moore had several years to crack the regular rotation here and couldn’t do it. 
Ross sees Vice in practice every day. If he helped us win more than Sissoko or Newell, I guarantee he would be playing. 
As for Layne Taylor, if Ross offered him, he must be good. But he is putting up points on a lower level 2-4 team that lost to BYU and Utah by 40 points each. If he keeps playing well and knows how to hustle on defense, he might get promoted to the big leagues in Denton for his junior and senior seasons.

I agree with most of this here and I don't think anyone is calling for a 12 man rotation...but imma pull two lines from above that are kinda contradictory to each other:

"Either these young guys are good enough to crack the 8/9 man rotation or they are not." and " if Ross offered him, he must be good."

this is basically Ross's roster at this point, and yes, while we're winning games, I haven't seen any world-beaters out there. so if these kids are being given opportunity to win playing time and aren't at least pushing the upperclassmen for minutes, I have questions about our freshmen recruiting...I don't know if they "must be good"

[Green Lantern]

Really would like to see Vice get worked onto the floor after these neutral site games. He’s a big Ol dude that look like he moves around pretty well out there for his size. Our lack of size & depth in the front court worries me a bit, especially after watching a team like Memphis. 

[Censored by Laurie]

28 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Not being capable and not being given a legitimate opportunity are two different things. Moore never got a legitimate chance in my opinion. I don't think Taylor would have been given a legitimate chance either just like I don't believe Vice, Cotton, and Mason are being given legitimate opportunities to showcase themselves. We had a 20 point lead the entire second have against Evansville. They couldn't get in for 5-10 minutes with the members of the main rotation to see how they perform? Would be nice to know what we have if a main player goes down...

we've a pretty low hit-rate with freshmen recruiting in the McCaslund/Hodge era. and these weren't all just swings and misses...Jackson is actually still playing at WKU and Robinson is a starter at Fresno after a few years in JUCO, so I don't think it's entirely down to not identifying decent players. 

Jalen Jackson ('19)
Rubin Jones ('20)
Abou Ousmane ('20)
Mykell Robinson ('20)
Aaron Scott ('21)
Matt Stone ('21)
Chris Morgan ('21)
Christian Moore ('22)
Alex Cotton ('23)
Brock Vice ('24)
Tyran Mason ('24)

[MeanGreenZen]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

we've a pretty low hit-rate with freshmen recruiting in the McCaslund/Hodge era. and these weren't all just swings and misses...Jackson is actually still playing at WKU and Robinson is a starter at Fresno after a few years in JUCO, so I don't think it's entirely down to not identifying decent players. 

Jalen Jackson ('19)
Rubin Jones ('20)
Abou Ousmane ('20)
Mykell Robinson ('20)
Aaron Scott ('21)
Matt Stone ('21)
Chris Morgan ('21)
Christian Moore ('22)
Alex Cotton ('23)
Brock Vice ('24)
Tyran Mason ('24)

Vice is a D1 transfer, not a true freshman.

[Glory to the Green]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

we've a pretty low hit-rate with freshmen recruiting in the McCaslund/Hodge era. and these weren't all just swings and misses...Jackson is actually still playing at WKU and Robinson is a starter at Fresno after a few years in JUCO, so I don't think it's entirely down to not identifying decent players. 

Jalen Jackson ('19)
Rubin Jones ('20)
Abou Ousmane ('20)
Mykell Robinson ('20)
Aaron Scott ('21)
Matt Stone ('21)
Chris Morgan ('21)
Christian Moore ('22)
Alex Cotton ('23)
Brock Vice ('24)
Tyran Mason ('24)

Clearly Hodge prioritizes defense.  If our guys look confused/unsure of themselves, they rarely see the court.  Vice didn’t look confident on defense when he played. 

Like you mentioned earlier, you’d think squeezing in a couple of minutes of PT would be beneficial, but Hodge thinks differently.  Stone didn’t see the court last night. 

[MeanGreenZen]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I agree with most of this here and I don't think anyone is calling for a 12 man rotation...but imma pull two lines from above that are kinda contradictory to each other:

"Either these young guys are good enough to crack the 8/9 man rotation or they are not." and " if Ross offered him, he must be good."

this is basically Ross's roster at this point, and yes, while we're winning games, I haven't seen any world-beaters out there. so if these kids are being given opportunity to win playing time and aren't at least pushing the upperclassmen for minutes, I have questions about our freshmen recruiting...I don't know if they "must be good"

Ross has been elite at identifying and acquiring talent that fits his system throughout his career. 
Our team is 5-1, there are probably some good players on our roster who can’t crack the rotation. That would be a good sign. 
And I wouldn’t mind them getting garbage time minutes either. But I do think an 8/9 man rotation works best.

[NT80]

3 hours ago, Green Lantern said:

Really would like to see Vice get worked onto the floor after these neutral site games. He’s a big Ol dude that look like he moves around pretty well out there for his size. Our lack of size & depth in the front court worries me a bit, especially after watching a team like Memphis. 

Agree.  Vice could do what Sissoko is doing, I saw him already do it, but with more offensive potential.   Loyalty to players staying in the program is not the same as playing the best players.  

[Censored by Laurie]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Vice is a D1 transfer, not a true freshman.

yes...I'm aware. so he should be even more developed with a season of practice against one of the best centers in the country and a Top 25 roster. 

 

2 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Ross has been elite at identifying and acquiring talent that fits his system throughout his career. 
Our team is 5-1, there are probably some good players on our roster who can’t crack the rotation. That would be a good sign. 
And I wouldn’t mind them getting garbage time minutes either. But I do think an 8/9 man rotation works best.

let's tap the breaks on "elite". 

[GMG_Dallas]

4 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Ross has been elite at identifying and acquiring talent that fits his system throughout his career. 
Our team is 5-1, there are probably some good players on our roster who can’t crack the rotation. That would be a good sign. 
And I wouldn’t mind them getting garbage time minutes either. But I do think an 8/9 man rotation works best.

We have a good rotation of guards but our forward/center depth is nonexistent. We've got Lorient and that's about it. I try not just look at numbers to determine value on the court but Newell and Sissoko just aren't producing much. Those two are shooting less than 50% from the field. Regarding Sissoko especially since he takes most of his shots around the basket, we just can't have that against the better teams.

[3_n_out]

Playing this kind of in your face defense all season in this conference can wear us down by the time tourney season comes along. So, I’m hoping Ross stretches the bench so as not to wear these guys down too much. 

[NT80]

3 minutes ago, 3_n_out said:

Playing this kind of in your face defense all season in this conference can wear us down by the time tourney season comes along. So, I’m hoping Ross stretches the bench so as not to wear these guys down too much. 

Yes, we saw what injuries did to us last season.