Depth Chart vs ECU

[Glory to the Green]

Doesn’t appear so, but any chance we run the 4-2-5?  Craven sounded very confident on the ROF podcast today. 
 

[BillySee58]

1 hour ago, Glory to the Green said:

Doesn’t appear so, but any chance we run the 4-2-5?  Craven sounded very confident on the ROF podcast today. 
 

I think what Odom was running at USC was a 3-3-5 that had a “RUSH” position serving as a hybrid DE/LB lined up on the line of scrimmage, so really only 2 second level linebackers, making it similar to a 4-2-5 in effect. Different from Caponi’s 3-3-5 stack. Maybe someone like Chavez Brown could play that type of role but not exactly a lot of time to implement that level of scheme change.

https://usctrojans.com/sports/2022/8/31/2022-usc-trojans-football-roster-depth-chart

Edited Wednesday at 03:34 AM by BillySee58

[Glory to the Green]

27 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Maybe someone like Chavez Brown could play that type of role but not exactly a lot of time to implement that level of scheme change.

Thanks.  I’m curious to see if we see any changes.  Morris said today was a good on good day…I’m assuming starters vs starters.  Perhaps to implement a new wrinkle on defense?  Guess we’ll find out soon enough. 

[97and03]

Would seem to me that a 3-4 more likely given the personnel we have and the fact that we have run it already some this season. Not familiar with ECU’s offense, which I assume (hope?) will dictate what we look like on defense. 

[Old Denton]

12 starters on both offense and defense.  That's some 3-D chess right there

[MeanGreenTexan]

12 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

I think what Odom was running at USC was a 3-3-5 that had a “RUSH” position serving as a hybrid DE/LB lined up on the line of scrimmage, so really only 2 second level linebackers, making it similar to a 4-2-5 in effect. Different from Caponi’s 3-3-5 stack. Maybe someone like Chavez Brown could play that type of role but not exactly a lot of time to implement that level of scheme change.

https://usctrojans.com/sports/2022/8/31/2022-usc-trojans-football-roster-depth-chart

I agree it would be a quick turnaround, but I bet he'll at least have some packages ready to go this week, if not a full "base" defense ready.   

If he wants to treat this like a job interview (which he should), he'll need to implement successful changes immediately.   He'll have at least two (better be three!!) games to show what he can do.

[meangreen2016]

All I know is they need to find a way to get pressure on the QB and help with the run. So many plays this year where the 3 down linemen are hung out to dry on a pass without blitz assist or anything. All that coming after being exhausted from trying to stop the run on multiple plays beforehand. 
I’d be a mix between overjoyed/angry if they fully make this switch and our defense starts playing consistently well. Can’t crucify him for every poor decision but that would be a glaring one on EM’s record moving forward. 

[Glory to the Green]

Just now, meangreen2016 said:

I’d be a mix between overjoyed/angry if they fully make this switch and our defense starts playing consistently well.

If they shut down ECU, I’d be glad the change happened but pissed it didn’t happen sooner. 

[SilverEagle]

Porter scheduled to start?  Did I just imagine him leaving both the Army and UTSA games holding his shoulder?

[meangreen2016]

5 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

Porter scheduled to start?  Did I just imagine him leaving both the Army and UTSA games holding his shoulder?

Dude isn’t going to have an arm after this season. I swear I’ve seen him come off the field like 3 separate times holding it like it’s broken. 

[GMG_Dallas]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I agree it would be a quick turnaround, but I bet he'll at least have some packages ready to go this week, if not a full "base" defense ready.   

If he wants to treat this like a job interview (which he should), he'll need to implement successful changes immediately.   He'll have at least two (better be three!!) games to show what he can do.

Under what circumstances do you think he'd earn the permanent job?

Even if the defense performes, I'd be concerned by the 3-3-5 base Billy alluded to. If the defense performes at a high level but he keeps a 3-3-5 through the end of the season, do we still move on from him to get away from the 3-3-5 after this season or what? Just curious on others' thoughts. I'd be concerned that EM would say "look the 3-3-5 can work, we just didn't have the right DC in place" and we'd be right back here in a year.

[MeanGreenTexan]

32 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Under what circumstances do you think he'd earn the permanent job?

Even if the defense performes, I'd be concerned by the 3-3-5 base Billy alluded to. If the defense performes at a high level but he keeps a 3-3-5 through the end of the season, do we still move on from him to get away from the 3-3-5 after this season or what? Just curious on others' thoughts. I'd be concerned that EM would say "look the 3-3-5 can work, we just didn't have the right DC in place" and we'd be right back here in a year.

It would be pretty dumb of him to not treat this as an audition, and if it works, you have to think about keeping him.

There are times when a 3-3-5 stack works.   It's starting to lose it's effectiveness though as more and more offenses scheme to it's weaknesses.  You really have to have the right DL (nose, specifically) to make it work.   Rod Brown is awesome, and is doing a great job in his role there.  Then, you have to have great secondary pieces.   Remember our 2017-18 defenses when Kemon Hall, Nate Brooks, Kahiri Mohammed & Eric Jenkins were all patrolling back there in Reff's 3-3-5 stack?   Great defenses!  It doesn't appear that's what Coach Odom would run if it were his show though...

If you take a closer look at what @BillySee58 was saying, Odom seems to work in more of a 4-2-5 formation like Coach Bennett last year.   I like this defense a little more, assuming we have good, fast, thumper LBs, (Brown & Smith will do), because it allows a 4 man rush on the regular, while maintaining a strong secondary presence.

[wardly]

13 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Would seem to me that a 3-4 more likely given the personnel we have and the fact that we have run it already some this season. Not familiar with ECU’s offense, which I assume (hope?) will dictate what we look like on defense. 

ECU's offense looks to me like a mirror image of UTSA.

[GMG_Dallas]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

It would be pretty dumb of him to not treat this as an audition, and if it works, you have to think about keeping him.

There are times when a 3-3-5 stack works.   It's starting to lose it's effectiveness though as more and more offenses scheme to it's weaknesses.  You really have to have the right DL (nose, specifically) to make it work.   Rod Brown is awesome, and is doing a great job in his role there.  Then, you have to have great secondary pieces.   Remember our 2017-18 defenses when Kemon Hall, Nate Brooks, Kahiri Mohammed & Eric Jenkins were all patrolling back there in Reff's 3-3-5 stack?   Great defenses!  It doesn't appear that's what Coach Odom would run if it were his show though...

If you take a closer look at what @BillySee58 was saying, Odom seems to work in more of a 4-2-5 formation like Coach Bennett last year.   I like this defense a little more, assuming we have good, fast, thumper LBs, (Brown & Smith will do), because it allows a 4 man rush on the regular, while maintaining a strong secondary presence.

Honestly I don't even hate the defensive scheme much on the surface (3-3-5 or 4-2-5). My biggest concerns have been in the secondary. They rarely seem to be in a position to challenge catches and the tackling is often weak at that level. That along with the lack of blitzing from the secondary has been frustrating which, from what I'd read in the past, was one of the benefits of having 5 DBs. Gives more flexibility to send a blitzer from different areas of the field while keeping the offense guessing as to where it's coming from. If they're not covering well, not tackling well, not blitzing much, then what are they doing? They started generating turnovers lately but not enough to make-up for the soft coverage. Think it's a coincident Caponi was also over DBs? Like you said, you have to have great secondary pieces. I think we have good talent in the secondary but they haven't been coached up enough.

Anyways, I hope this move works. A new DC will bring in new coaches, possibly a completely new scheme, and with that new players which then delays us another year. 

[BillySee58]

23 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

It would be pretty dumb of him to not treat this as an audition, and if it works, you have to think about keeping him.

There are times when a 3-3-5 stack works.   It's starting to lose it's effectiveness though as more and more offenses scheme to it's weaknesses.  You really have to have the right DL (nose, specifically) to make it work.   Rod Brown is awesome, and is doing a great job in his role there.  Then, you have to have great secondary pieces.   Remember our 2017-18 defenses when Kemon Hall, Nate Brooks, Kahiri Mohammed & Eric Jenkins were all patrolling back there in Reff's 3-3-5 stack?   Great defenses!  It doesn't appear that's what Coach Odom would run if it were his show though...

If you take a closer look at what @BillySee58 was saying, Odom seems to work in more of a 4-2-5 formation like Coach Bennett last year.   I like this defense a little more, assuming we have good, fast, thumper LBs, (Brown & Smith will do), because it allows a 4 man rush on the regular, while maintaining a strong secondary presence.

I think the biggest weakness in the front for me has been not being able to set the edge as a defensive line. When your DEs are lined up more inside the tackles it’s harder to set the edge effectively, especially when some of those DEs are more like undersized DTs who aren’t as quick or hard to reach block.

We have had a very soft edge and our LBs and safeties don’t do a great job with angles or understanding that you can’t bite on jab steps towards the middle part of the field when it’s obvious the runner wants to get outside you because that’s where you don’t have help defenders set up.

Similarly on pass rush, we don’t set up good paths to the QB in the 3-3-5 stack because we have not been able to put pressure on tackles getting beat to the outside. And the blitzes never really had the same effect because blitzers are looking for a clean path to the QB and trying to avoid getting engaged by a lineman. Which is easier for a QB to manipulate than a DL’s path, and the blitzer vacates part of the field. Mccown for example was able to make one quick move up in the pocket, sometimes after baiting the blitzer a certain direction, and suddenly he had nothing but green grass for days.

I think more of a 4-2-5 look would at least give us a chance to be more competitive setting the edges. I think that’ll go a long way and give us an easier chance at success given the caliber of athletes that are available at our level.

Edited 23 hours ago by BillySee58

[MeanGreen01]

When are the other RB’s like Ragsdale coming back. What was his injury, he’s been out the majority of the season? Any of our other RB’s due back? Crazy. Porter doing incredible but like to see him get a rest at times, shoulder already banged up. 

[Glory to the Green]

7 hours ago, MeanGreen01 said:

When are the other RB’s like Ragsdale coming back.

On Tuesday, Morris said Ragsdale had been practicing. If he has any desire to keep playing after this season shouldn’t he take a medical redshirt?

[MeanGreen01]

2 hours ago, Glory to the Green said:

On Tuesday, Morris said Ragsdale had been practicing. If he has any desire to keep playing after this season shouldn’t he take a medical redshirt?

Good point, makes sense