What is this program missing?

[meangreen2016]

It’s all just really depressing. I’m hurting for the players. I want us to be relevant but it just feels like there’s something missing every year we’re somewhat decent. The year we beat Arkansas I was thinking “finally- this is it. We’re gonna break through. Everyone will start taking us seriously. Here come the big recruits.” Then back to back heartbreaking losses. Is UNT football just doomed to be the low to mid tier punching bag for schools to beat up on?

This is my first post for multiple years in here and I’m just curious to know serious thoughts:

What are we missing? What is preventing this program from going on a Boise State/UTSA/Cincy/UCF run? 
Is it just the complacency and history of losing?
Or is it more tangible like facilities/money towards recruits?

I’m afraid if we don’t figure it out we’re really going to get left in the dust with NIL taking off.
(Sorry for the long post, just processing what has turned into a disappointing season) 

[meangreenfaninno]

Good post and the simple answer is we need football to emulate what UNT basketball is doing.  UNT basketball has better recruiting, coaching and significantly more NIL support.

[DentonStang]

It's administrative support. 

[Big Z]

27 minutes ago, meangreen2016 said:

It’s all just really depressing. I’m hurting for the players. I want us to be relevant but it just feels like there’s something missing every year we’re somewhat decent. The year we beat Arkansas I was thinking “finally- this is it. We’re gonna break through. Everyone will start taking us seriously. Here come the big recruits.” Then back to back heartbreaking losses. Is UNT football just doomed to be the low to mid tier punching bag for schools to beat up on?

This is my first post for multiple years in here and I’m just curious to know serious thoughts:

What are we missing? What is preventing this program from going on a Boise State/UTSA/Cincy/UCF run? 
Is it just the complacency and history of losing?
Or is it more tangible like facilities/money towards recruits?

I’m afraid if we don’t figure it out we’re really going to get left in the dust with NIL taking off.
(Sorry for the long post, just processing what has turned into a disappointing season) 

It takes winning and getting ranked to create any sort of momentum 

[MrAlien]

Its all about recruiting, it takes years for a coach to develop a consistent recruiting cycle, and Morris has only had one full year of recruiting, I do think the program is going in the right direction.

[Hookset]

Defensive recruiting/coaches have taken a backseat to offensive recruiting/coaches. I truly hope Morris quickly figures out that defense is necessary for winning. We just can’t rely on out scoring teams. 
I also hope Morris starts protecting the defense with his offensive play calls. When the defense just got off the field after a long drive by the other team, don’t be so aggressive with long passes that have us turning the ball over in less than a minute. Try to burn some clock and sustain a drive allowing the defense to rest and get adjustments from coaches. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 hours ago, meangreen2016 said:

...

What are we missing? What is preventing this program from going on a Boise State/UTSA/Cincy/UCF run? ...

What's so frustrating is that we were there, on the cusp.   We were THAT team.   WE HAD THE MOMENTUM (starting in 2017) until Littrell's flirtations with KSSt. 
The wheels fell off after that.... starting with Fine's injury in the NM Bowl game that year, then Harrell getting hired away & replaced by Bodie Reeder.  The next season, the lackadaisical SL showed up and he wasn't having fun anymore.  No more high energy, "Get after their asses!!".  Instead, it was low energy, "we gotta do better in all 3 phases"....

Then, we fired Littrell, and rightly so, but brought in Great Value Seth Littrell to replace him, which was a bone-headed move.

[Green Otaku]

2 hours ago, DentonStang said:

It's administrative support. 

Agree. This is the most important thing. At our level even if you have a breakout year you will be decimated by the portal and your coach leaves for a bigger paycheck. You need a department that will make the right choices and can correct mistakes when they are made. You need a department that will build long periods of sustained success, not just a year or two. You need a department that will tap into all available resources to fund the program and ensure it will be successful.

[GRN-WHT]

A University that produces rich, successful alumni that love sports, hate losing and are willing to spend their money to influence change in the athletic department. 

[Big Z]

2 minutes ago, GRN-WHT said:

A University that produces rich, successful alumni that love sports, hate losing and are willing to spend their money to influence change in the athletic department. 

[gangrene]

Honestly, what we are missing is a billionaire donor.  While we have a large alumni base, the majority donate $0 and we don't have enough big donors to make a significant impact.  I hate seeing that school we made fun of for buying their way into a P5 now possibly buying their way into a playoff spot.

[DentonLurker]

39 minutes ago, gangrene said:

Honestly, what we are missing is a billionaire donor.

Agreed. We need a Boone Pickens. One person who can just write a check for some of the pet projects of the department like the Athletic Center expansion, Softball upgrade, new football locker room/lounge, new basketball arena, etc.

[emmitt01]

45 minutes ago, gangrene said:

Honestly, what we are missing is a billionaire donor.  While we have a large alumni base, the majority donate $0 and we don't have enough big donors to make a significant impact.  I hate seeing that school we made fun of for buying their way into a P5 now possibly buying their way into a playoff spot.

Who is the billionaire donor at Boise State?  

At UCF? 

At Cincinnati? 

At Tulane?  

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, gangrene said:

Honestly, what we are missing is a billionaire donor.  ...

We already have one, and he gives a ton.

Got any other options/quick fixes?

[keith]

Right now, on the coaching front, we are missing everything except a running backs coach.

[Cougar King]

Simple. UNT has never won the conference and doesn't have a signature win that captured the nation attention. No 2-10 Arkansas doesn't count.

 

UNT also needs a Heisman Candidate to be the face of the team. It was ALMOST there with Mason Fine but it was squandered, opportunity after opportunity keep being missed.

 

Until UNT has a marketable face of the team, actually take down P4 opponents and win the conference, the same story will keep repeating itself. 

 

UCF had Blake Bortles take them to the Fiesta Bowl and a big run followed by Milton McKenzie beating Auburn.

Boise had Kellen Moore, Jared Zanbranski and others followed with wins over Oregon, Georgia, Oklahoma, etc.

 

Cincinatti had a 14-0 run to the Sugar Bowl followed by back to back undefeated runs with Desmond Ridder.

 

Houston had a great 2011 run with Case Keenum where we beat UCLA and Penn State in a January Bowl Game. In 2009 we beat #5 Oklahoma State and Texas Tech back to back.

In 2015 with Greg Ward Jr, we went 13-1, beat Louisville, Vanderbilt, ranked Navy, ranked Memphis, ranked Temple in the AAC Championship and Florida State in the Peach Bowl

2016, we had Ward back and Ed Oliver and beat Top 5 Oklahoma and Top 5 Louisville on National TV.

[NorthTexan95]

IMO, the main issue is fan support.   We have a very loyal core group with lots of fun things such as the canon, the Model T car, the "North Texas" chant ... but that core group is too small.  Previous administrations spent decades tamping down any enthusiasm for sports at UNT, leaving it an after thought for many alumni.  It would be much easier to recruit and high great coaches if we had 25k at each game and a community that really backed the teams.

Suppose we had beat Navy, went on the beat Army, and finished the year with 10 wins.  I don't think that would move the needle much for next year.  It would be very difficult to have enough winning seasons to slowly build a winning tradition.  

Long story, short ... winning at football just isn't important to enough students and alumni. 

I will agree with others that having our own Boone Pickens would be a great benefit if they could give a lot and have patience.  I just don't see that person walking through the door anytime soon. 

[NorthTexan95]

24 minutes ago, Cougar King said:

Simple. UNT has never won the conference and doesn't have a signature win that captured the nation attention. No 2-10 Arkansas doesn't count.

UNT also needs a Heisman Candidate to be the face of the team. It was ALMOST there with Mason Fine but it was squandered, opportunity after opportunity keep being missed.

I think even if one of the seasons with Mason Fine had been an 11-1 or 12-0 season, it wouldn't have made a long term difference. We would not have enough alumni support to continue building off that. 

[GoMeanGreen1999]

It is missing SOLID, go getter LEADERSHIP from the top down.  

[meangreen2016]

56 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

I think even if one of the seasons with Mason Fine had been an 11-1 or 12-0 season, it wouldn't have made a long term difference. We would not have enough alumni support to continue building off that. 

I think @Cougar King does make a good point though. Regarding the donor stuff- Boise never seemed to have had much money. They had a signature win against OU that vaulted them to national Cinderella status for so many years after. The other schools he mentioned just won out and got a signature bowel game with a signature win. 
With the news today of our athletic department expansion, it sounds like our facilities are consistently being improved. They’re top notch. Not sure who the huge donor is but somebody above mentioned that we have one.

So maybe part of the answer is: a coach and administration who can put it all together on the field and get results?
(Combined with some players that stick around and help build the culture?)

[NT80]

2 hours ago, gangrene said:

Honestly, what we are missing is a billionaire donor.  While we have a large alumni base, the majority donate $0 and we don't have enough big donors to make a significant impact. 

I hate seeing that school we made fun of for buying their way into a P5 now possibly buying their way into a playoff spot.

This ^^^     

We have climbed a long way up from the 1-AA days and before that...

• Lone Star Conference: 1931–1949
• Gulf Coast Conference: 1949–1957
• Missouri Valley Conference: 1957–1975
• Southland Conference: 1982–1996
• Big West Conference: 1996–2000
• Sun Belt Conference: 2000–2013
• Conference USA: 2013–2023
• American Athletic Conference: 2023–present 

Now, we need the BIG, media-type wins = more eyeballs and knowledge about our Brand.   

We also need $$$$$$$.

Also better and MUCH more marketing!, advertisers, donors, and lost Alums to come back.

 

[NT80]

1 hour ago, Cougar King said:

Simple. UNT has never won the conference and doesn't have a signature win that captured the nation attention. No 2-10 Arkansas doesn't count.

 

UNT also needs a Heisman Candidate to be the face of the team. It was ALMOST there with Mason Fine but it was squandered, opportunity after opportunity keep being missed.

 

Until UNT has a marketable face of the team, actually take down P4 opponents and win the conference, the same story will keep repeating itself. 

 

UCF had Blake Bortles take them to the Fiesta Bowl and a big run followed by Milton McKenzie beating Auburn.

Boise had Kellen Moore, Jared Zanbranski and others followed with wins over Oregon, Georgia, Oklahoma, etc.

 

Cincinatti had a 14-0 run to the Sugar Bowl followed by back to back undefeated runs with Desmond Ridder.

 

Houston had a great 2011 run with Case Keenum where we beat UCLA and Penn State in a January Bowl Game. In 2009 we beat #5 Oklahoma State and Texas Tech back to back.

In 2015 with Greg Ward Jr, we went 13-1, beat Louisville, Vanderbilt, ranked Navy, ranked Memphis, ranked Temple in the AAC Championship and Florida State in the Peach Bowl

2016, we had Ward back and Ed Oliver and beat Top 5 Oklahoma and Top 5 Louisville on National TV.

Those teams and programs are one-hit wonders.  They don't sustain success like the SEC and Big10 teams because of resource$.   Any program below the top will get good players, admins, and coaches poached for more $$ from the top programs.

It's a simple food chain!

[meangreen2016]

45 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Those teams and programs are one-hit wonders.  They don't sustain success like the SEC and Big10 teams because of resource$.   Any program below the top will get good players, admins, and coaches poached for more $$ from the top programs.

It's a simple food chain!

Very true but it did get them to the  next level which was a spot in the Big 12 and more of a consistent chance at a spot in the playoff and prime time games. You’re totally right some of them have completely fallen off but that’s also related to their competition going up. 

[BillySee58]

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

What's so frustrating is that we were there, on the cusp.   We were THAT team.   WE HAD THE MOMENTUM (starting in 2017) until Littrell's flirtations with KSSt. 
The wheels fell off after that.... starting with Fine's injury in the NM Bowl game that year, then Harrell getting hired away & replaced by Bodie Reeder.  The next season, the lackadaisical SL showed up and he wasn't having fun anymore.  No more high energy, "Get after their asses!!".  Instead, it was low energy, "we gotta do better in all 3 phases"....

Then, we fired Littrell, and rightly so, but brought in Great Value Seth Littrell to replace him, which was a bone-headed move.

I’ll take Morris over Littrell all day, at least at the timing of the decision. I think he is a better offensive coach and recruiter. The QB thing isn’t just a coincidence, and Littrell could only produce one which is part of what sunk him.

That being said, I think it is extremely important that Mosley educate Morris on what went wrong with Littrell. Morris said almost verbatim what Littrell said when he hired a DC. That you get a guy “who is tough to coach against.” This move backfired in both cases, but especially with Morris where that 3-3-5 stack didn’t make as much sense against the offenses in this conference. Mosley should’ve been there to push back on that echo chamber stuff with the relevant example.

Similarly Littrell went heavier on inexperienced portal guys with more eligibility when he could’ve benefited from adding more experience, especially defensively. Morris is going heavy HS which is good for building a foundation and those guys are less likely to transfer, but we also desperately need some ready to play guys. Particularly ones who you don’t have to suspend indefinitely to start the season.

I think Morris does some things well and knows what it takes to run a quality team, but Mosley really needs to help educate him on where Littrell went wrong and push back on Morris if he’s thinking along the same lines in certain aspects. It doesn’t have to be the same movie with the same ending and Mosley needs to ensure it isn’t.

[Wag Tag]

Momentum, can we ever get any?  The loss to La tech after the Ark win was the best opportunity I have seen. National pub was amazing. Coach has to be sick knowing he is wasting the talent of Chandler with the crap D. I’m not for HS recruiting unless you follow the coach Prime philosophy of they have to contribute right away. We can recruit every position except D line. This and QB is where the money needs to go. Now Basketball is a different story!!! Thank goodness.