Defense - Someone Explain One Positive Attribute

BigWillie · 2024-10-20T15:18:56Z

11 minutes ago, Green Lantern said:

Agree! We also need to focus on our special teams being a disaster in critical situations. Our historically bad defense keeps a critical eye off of them as well.

I appreciate your analytical approach - genuinely. I think you know that we pay at the TOP END of the G5 pay scale for this. I’m not looking for incremental progress from the worst defense I’ve ever seen in person in Year 2. And I sat through Ron Mendoza, so I’m battle hardened and scarred from shitty North Texas defenses.

This is a very good point. I think we can admit this defense is better, but only incrementally. As you said, I think for paying top G5 pay, that's just not good enough. We need to expect more. That's always been the problem.

aztecskin · 2024-10-20T16:00:26Z

45 minutes ago, Green Lantern said:

Agree! We also need to focus on our special teams being a disaster in critical situations. Our historically bad defense keeps a critical eye off of them as well.

I appreciate your analytical approach - genuinely. I think you know that we pay at the TOP END of the G5 pay scale for this. I’m not looking for incremental progress from the worst defense I’ve ever seen in person in Year 2. And I sat through Ron Mendoza, so I’m battle hardened and scarred from shitty North Texas defenses.

Yeah I am not a fan of the pay for Caponi or anything. I am not even saying we should be a 3-high team. I am just trying to understand their reasoning. All of MGN and all this is just about trying to be a smarter fan is all. So yeah. I can recognize as @TIgreen01 was saying, that we have been poor vs Tech and Memphis.

For me, a smarter fan asks What is a reasonable amount of progress over last year for this defense, given the constraints put upon this program (money, prestige, etc). I said "mid-tier AAC". I think they are on schedule for something like that with three terrible offenses still on the schedule.

The other side of it is considering what is good. Lots of people said "Memphis has a good defense, if we had that we would be good". Well, again, they got killed. They also hadn't played anyone of note outside of Navy and ourselves. So we could apply the same logic to Memphis --- "Only winning teams they played killed them!" -- means we have to anchor our argument a little differently.

Maybe means we can't just fire Caponi so quickly. Because maybe we don't know what we are talking about. What should we fire a coach for? I would say if he can't recruit, can't adapt, and cant show improvement. So far Caponi has recruited talent, adapted, and shown slight improvement. So I have to be okay with it based on my own criteria even if I don't think he's amazing.

BigWillie · 2024-10-20T17:53:39Z

1 hour ago, aztecskin said:

Yeah I am not a fan of the pay for Caponi or anything. I am not even saying we should be a 3-high team. I am just trying to understand their reasoning. All of MGN and all this is just about trying to be a smarter fan is all. So yeah. I can recognize as @TIgreen01 was saying, that we have been poor vs Tech and Memphis.

For me, a smarter fan asks What is a reasonable amount of progress over last year for this defense, given the constraints put upon this program (money, prestige, etc). I said "mid-tier AAC". I think they are on schedule for something like that with three terrible offenses still on the schedule.

The other side of it is considering what is good. Lots of people said "Memphis has a good defense, if we had that we would be good". Well, again, they got killed. They also hadn't played anyone of note outside of Navy and ourselves. So we could apply the same logic to Memphis --- "Only winning teams they played killed them!" -- means we have to anchor our argument a little differently.

Maybe means we can't just fire Caponi so quickly. Because maybe we don't know what we are talking about. What should we fire a coach for? I would say if he can't recruit, can't adapt, and cant show improvement. So far Caponi has recruited talent, adapted, and shown slight improvement. So I have to be okay with it based on my own criteria even if I don't think he's amazing.

If only they kept stats to track progress year over year. That would be a perfect way to show improvement.

Last year 131 rank. So far this season 124, and the season isn't over and we still have a couple of big games coming up.

Not sure about you, but still being in the bottom 15 of the nation in defense is not acceptable for one of the highest paid DCs in G5. Slight improvement is acceptable? Moving up 7 spots?

Unacceptable, sorry.

97and03 · 2024-10-20T17:53:53Z

13 hours ago, Matt said:

Stone Cold celebration is pretty neat.

We would actually have to generate TOs to see it.

13 hours ago, BigWillie said:

Ridge is still our best player. Lone bright spot in a deep, deep chasm...

Unfortunately, wasn’t his best night.

97and03 · 2024-10-20T18:00:48Z

2 hours ago, aztecskin said:

Yeah I am not a fan of the pay for Caponi or anything. I am not even saying we should be a 3-high team. I am just trying to understand their reasoning. All of MGN and all this is just about trying to be a smarter fan is all. So yeah. I can recognize as @TIgreen01 was saying, that we have been poor vs Tech and Memphis.

For me, a smarter fan asks What is a reasonable amount of progress over last year for this defense, given the constraints put upon this program (money, prestige, etc). I said "mid-tier AAC". I think they are on schedule for something like that with three terrible offenses still on the schedule.

The other side of it is considering what is good. Lots of people said "Memphis has a good defense, if we had that we would be good". Well, again, they got killed. They also hadn't played anyone of note outside of Navy and ourselves. So we could apply the same logic to Memphis --- "Only winning teams they played killed them!" -- means we have to anchor our argument a little differently.

Maybe means we can't just fire Caponi so quickly. Because maybe we don't know what we are talking about. What should we fire a coach for? I would say if he can't recruit, can't adapt, and cant show improvement. So far Caponi has recruited talent, adapted, and shown slight improvement. So I have to be okay with it based on my own criteria even if I don't think he's amazing.

Since you like stats, here is one. 37.1 vs 35.7

One damn point improvement from 2023. That’s your incremental progress for the highest paid DC among our peer group. A guy with ZERO coordinator experience at any of the three highest levels of college football. Zero, and he gets a huge contract to have a bottom ten defense for two seasons. I don’t think there is a program other than NT where that would happen. Just ridiculous, and it is on the HC first and foremost. And his offense doesn’t make it any easier for the DC to succeed.

Edited 3 hours ago by 97and03

GoMeanGreen1999 · 2024-10-20T19:00:33Z

The defense is not good, but going for it on 4th and 2 from your 40, right after your defense forced a punt, does nothing to encourage your defense. So yes, the defense is bad, but the head coach doesn't do much to help them doing stuff like that. Is this Leach 2.0?

aztecskin · 2024-10-20T19:19:25Z

Have to wait for the whole season to compare season stats fully. But again, I’m not saying I love the dude but that J am trying to be sensible and not just fire off hot takes.

Last year Cal and FIU were awful and we allowed 1000 yards against them. Everyone was better against us compared to their season averages. That’s bad.

This year TTU, South, Memphis have all shown the capability of doing this kind of thing. Wyoming (terrible), Tulsa (bad) were held down. We didn’t make bad better.

FAU was improved but I’m thinking that was a little bit of their QB having a bye and getting better.

So yeah, I’m looking at the numbers. Sure. Numbers, though. Plural. Can’t just point to one and say “number go down = bad” and think I’m all done.

Obviously everyone is free to enjoy the football program however you like. Some people like to hate watch their own squad. Cool, man. Some people also like sardines. That ain’t for me.

DentonLurker · 2024-10-20T19:52:45Z

32 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

Obviously everyone is free to enjoy the football program however you like. Some people like to hate watch their own squad. Cool, man. Some people also like sardines. That ain’t for me.

This!

BigWillie · 2024-10-20T20:06:18Z

41 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

Obviously everyone is free to enjoy the football program however you like. Some people like to hate watch their own squad. Cool, man. Some people also like sardines. That ain’t for me.

I don't think any of us hate watch. We are all die hard fans, otherwise we wouldn't be here. To me, it is just natural for fans and people in general to want to "fix" or point out what needs to change to WIN.

After a loss in a big game, which NT has had many over the years, it is not easy to come over here and talk moral victories and say, "oh, but we are improving". At this point in my fandom, and I know there are a lot of others that have seen many, many more years of this, I am more interested in what needs to be done to WIN. I am beyond my honeymoon phase.

97and03 · 2024-10-20T20:28:35Z

1 hour ago, aztecskin said:

Have to wait for the whole season to compare season stats fully. But again, I’m not saying I love the dude but that J am trying to be sensible and not just fire off hot takes.

Last year Cal and FIU were awful and we allowed 1000 yards against them. Everyone was better against us compared to their season averages. That’s bad.

This year TTU, South, Memphis have all shown the capability of doing this kind of thing. Wyoming (terrible), Tulsa (bad) were held down. We didn’t make bad better.

FAU was improved but I’m thinking that was a little bit of their QB having a bye and getting better.

So yeah, I’m looking at the numbers. Sure. Numbers, though. Plural. Can’t just point to one and say “number go down = bad” and think I’m all done.

Obviously everyone is free to enjoy the football program however you like. Some people like to hate watch their own squad. Cool, man. Some people also like sardines. That ain’t for me.

There is only one number that matters and it is the scoreboard, hence my focus on the ppg defense numbers.
And I don’t hate to watch my squad, hence me staying up until 4am to watch them - which means I really hate to watch them lose and be so tired I am wrecked the next day. As you like to say, Sunday is a whole like brighter when we win. Especially so when you get a handful of hours of sleep and your wife expects you to be a contributing human being.