Fine, Rogers, Morris

mgfan · September 29

Who ya got? And why?

Mean Green 93-98 · September 29

Fine.

Cuz we get 4 years of him.

Glory to the Green · September 29

Today…..

1) Fine

2) Morris, but if he stays healthy for two years and wins an AAC Championship I think he takes the top spot.

Edited September 29 by Glory to the Green

Coltonw83 · September 29

3 minutes ago, Glory to the Green said:

1) Fine

2) Morris, but if he stays healthy for two years? He’s 1a.

If Morris leads this team to a good bowl win or two bowl wins he can stand alone at 1 to me imo. I know Fine holds all the stat records and was fun to watch, but no bowl wins with his team and we last won a bowl game in 2013. It’s not an insurmountable goal for Morris to be our best QB all time

Glory to the Green · September 29

Just now, Coltonw83 said:

If Morris leads this team to a good bowl win or two bowl wins he can stand alone at 1 to me imo

I must have edited mine as you were responding. 100% agree. An AAC championship also gives an opportunity to go the playoff. We’re a long way from there, but it’s a fun conversation to have.

Coltonw83 · September 29

3 minutes ago, Glory to the Green said:

I must have edited mine as you were responding. 100% agree. An AAC championship also gives an opportunity to go the playoff. We’re a long way from there, but it’s a fun conversation to have.

Agreed!

mgfan · September 29

4 minutes ago, Glory to the Green said:

I must have edited mine as you were responding. 100% agree. An AAC championship also gives an opportunity to go the playoff. We’re a long way from there, but it’s a fun conversation to have.

I’m very glad we landed morris. I think Rogers could have been great too if he had stayed. Even better than fine.

NT93 · September 29

Part of what made Mason so great was that he was the ultimate underdog story. Add to that the leadership he showed and the fact that he was such a great ambassador for the university. He was just impossible not to root for.

But yeah, Morris is off to a great start. I have to imagine he is the most highly ranked QB we’ve ever had based on his 4-star ranking out of high school.

TIgreen01 · September 29

If Morris stays healthy he could be the most sought after QB in the country this offseason. Maybe the competition level curbs some of that? Until the rules change, getting one year of him is what to expect of someone playing at this high a level. Then it comes down to Eric Morris. He’s got to be getting noticed as one heckuva QB whisperer. QBs are gonna flock here to play for him, as a result.

As to the original question, Morris is in his 5th season of college football and his best strengths, IMO, are his grasp of the offense and quick, accurate release. He’s a smart player and has the talent to match his rating coming out of high school. I would have loved to have seen Fine in a 5th year and not wasted in a bad offensive scheme change his final season. I’ve been around since the mid 90s, just missing Maher. Fine and Morris are the best that I’ve seen. Gotta let the season finish before I’d pick a winner.

greenjoe · September 29

I hope we keep him (healthy) for the balance of his college career.

meaniegreenie · September 30

20 hours ago, NT93 said:

Part of what made Mason so great was that he was the ultimate underdog story. Add to that the leadership he showed and the fact that he was such a great ambassador for the university. He was just impossible not to root for.

But yeah, Morris is off to a great start. I have to imagine he is the most highly ranked QB we’ve ever had based on his 4-star ranking out of high school.

Yeah, he was dedicated and committed to UNT and a tough SOB too.

MAX KOCH · September 30

rodgers who dat?

SilverEagle · September 30

*From the UNT official stats book 2023

This statistical category pulls players from as long ago as 1949. I have bolded my favorites

CAREER LEADERS PLAYER SEASONS CMP ATT PCT YDS

1. Mason Fine 2016-19 1,039 1,655 .628 12,505

2. Mitch Maher 1991-94 640 1,149 .557 8,519

3. Derek Thompson 2009-13 636 1,055 .603 7,427

4. Austin Aune 2019-22 488 896 .545 7,324

5. Steve Ramsey 1967-69 491 1,015 .483 7,076

6. Scott Davis 1987-90 519 922 .562 6,923

7. Scott Hall 2000-04 413 763 .541 5,975

8. Giovanni Vizza 2007-08 532 876 .607 5,146

9. Jason Mills 1995-97 323 672 .480 3,981

10. Vidal Carlin 1965-66 276 633 .436 3,233

11. Riley Dodge 2008-10 311 481 .647 3,187

12. Ken Washington 1974-77 484 3,040

13.Greg Carter 1980-83 236 461 .511 2,848

14. Jordan Case 1977-79 218 354 .615 2,608

15.Daniel Meager 2004-08 262 473 .553 2,555

16. Zeke Martin 1949-50 2,522

17.Andrew McNulty 2011-15 224 429 .522 2,503

18. Joe Stevenson 1977-80 2,502

All of my selections were good leaders, tough guys (especially Jordan Case and the two "Scotts") and very effective passers.

Pick anyone of your favorites from the list.

Edited September 30 by SilverEagle

BillySee58 · October 1

Morris is the better quarterback and everyone sees it, whether they want to admit it or not.

The discourse here is terrible. Fine being here for four years or Morris being here for potentially just one is irrelevant to who is the better quarterback. Same for bowl wins. I know we really want one badly, but there are a lot of variables to winning a bowl game outside of how good the QB is.

Who is better at playing the position? Fine being here for four years or being a great story doesn’t factor into that determination. Morris has him beat in terms of pocket presence, accuracy, arm strength, and ability to read a defense.

We can wait to crown Morris until the season is over, but he is better as a QB than Fine. Hopefully he plays up to his ability the rest of the way, because if he doesn’t then it’ll just be a wasted opportunity for this team and program. I fully expect him to keep it up though.

Mean Green 93-98 · October 1

13 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Morris is the better quarterback and everyone sees it, whether they want to admit it or not.

The discourse here is terrible. Fine being here for four years or Morris being here for potentially just one is irrelevant to who is the better quarterback.

The question wasn't "Who is the better quarterback?"

The question was "Who ya got?"

meaniegreenie · October 1

Morris looks to be the best QB, but I have trouble saying someone is the best UNT QB if they only play here for one year and then leave. If he comes back next year, then he gets the title.

Cooley · October 1

11 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

*From the UNT official stats book 2023

This statistical category pulls players from as long ago as 1949. I have bolded my favorites

CAREER LEADERS PLAYER SEASONS CMP ATT PCT YDS

1. Mason Fine 2016-19 1,039 1,655 .628 12,505

2. Mitch Maher 1991-94 640 1,149 .557 8,519

3. Derek Thompson 2009-13 636 1,055 .603 7,427

4. Austin Aune 2019-22 488 896 .545 7,324

5. Steve Ramsey 1967-69 491 1,015 .483 7,076

6. Scott Davis 1987-90 519 922 .562 6,923

7. Scott Hall 2000-04 413 763 .541 5,975

8. Giovanni Vizza 2007-08 532 876 .607 5,146

9. Jason Mills 1995-97 323 672 .480 3,981

10. Vidal Carlin 1965-66 276 633 .436 3,233

11. Riley Dodge 2008-10 311 481 .647 3,187

12. Ken Washington 1974-77 484 3,040

13.Greg Carter 1980-83 236 461 .511 2,848

14. Jordan Case 1977-79 218 354 .615 2,608

15.Daniel Meager 2004-08 262 473 .553 2,555

16. Zeke Martin 1949-50 2,522

17.Andrew McNulty 2011-15 224 429 .522 2,503

18. Joe Stevenson 1977-80 2,502

All of my selections were good leaders, tough guys (especially Jordan Case and the two "Scotts") and very effective passers.

Pick anyone of your favorites from the list.

On 9/28/2024 at 7:09 PM, mgfan said:

I’m very glad we landed morris. I think Rogers could have been great too if he had stayed. Even better than fine.

On 9/28/2024 at 9:12 PM, NT93 said:

Part of what made Mason so great was that he was the ultimate underdog story. Add to that the leadership he showed and the fact that he was such a great ambassador for the university. He was just impossible not to root for.

But yeah, Morris is off to a great start. I have to imagine he is the most highly ranked QB we’ve ever had based on his 4-star ranking out of high school.

Yeah, but the star system wasn’t always around. Additionally, an era of passing the ball around vs the running game. Can’t compare QB’s equally.

Top ranked

Riley Dodge

Spencer Stack

Ken Washington Jr.

What does underdog story mean? Ambassador/Leadership?

How about Ken Washington Jr. as the #1 QB in Texas. At only 5-10 being told we don’t won’t a black quarterback by every SW Conference school and that you are too short.

Riley Dodge was also told that he was too small.

I liked Fine. Great passer but wasn’t good under pressure and couldn’t run to extend possessions.

NT93 · October 1

Underdog story: we were his one and only FBS offer. I’d say the odds were stacked against him in being successful at this level.

Ambassador/leadership: I was always impressed with how he handled himself and I have to imagine he led by example with the hard work he put in to be successful.

Now, neither of those things have anything to do with being a good QB and I didn’t say they did. As was stated previously, the question was, “Who ya got?”, so I was just stating reasons I feel like Mason is so well liked.

Morris is obviously a better QB if you look at the things a scout looks at, but there are flops (think Ryan Leaf). I don’t think it’s going to happen, but if Morris were to be average the rest of the year, his quick release, pocket presence, and ability to read a defense don’t mean much.

MeanGreen22 · October 1

18 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

*From the UNT official stats book 2023

This statistical category pulls players from as long ago as 1949. I have bolded my favorites

CAREER LEADERS PLAYER SEASONS CMP ATT PCT YDS

1. Mason Fine 2016-19 1,039 1,655 .628 12,505

2. Mitch Maher 1991-94 640 1,149 .557 8,519

3. Derek Thompson 2009-13 636 1,055 .603 7,427

Just a crazy thing to think about.. if Chandler is here for 2 years and stays healthy, he could end up 2nd or 3rd all time in yards in UNT history.

Edited October 1 by MeanGreen22

MeanGreenTexan · October 1

Wow. I think memory is taking it's toll on some people (Fine). I know jilted-lover syndrome is (Rogers).

Also, some of y'all are basically crowning CMorris (oddly enough, some of y'all based on his High School rating of all things?) after playing 5 games, 4 of which were against some pretty crappy teams... the other one, VS a good (not great) TXTech in which CMorris had a HORRIBLE game. I'm talking QBR of 9.1! (this, lower than Fine's first-ever start as a true Freshman in the Swamp VS a ranked Florida team, where he threw for only 66 yds.)

Y'all may want to do 3 things here:
1) Review Mason Fine's statistics, and maybe re-watch some of his highlights. I can't believe someone would call his pocket presence, or playing under pressure into question if you were in the house for "The Drive".
2) Review Chandler Rogers' statistics (missing 1/10 of a season twiddling his thumbs on the bench to start the season), and maybe re-watch some of his highlights. I can't help but think his departure is factoring into many of y'all's opinion of him & his play while here. He made a stupid decision, and should still be here.
3) Wait to crown CMorris until he lasts longer in Green than CRogers, and plays decently against the likes of Memphis, Tulane, & Army. If he can do this, maybe he can move up the ladder.

As of right now, I "got": 1. Fine 2. Rogers 3. Morris

BillySee58 · October 1

12 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

The question wasn't "Who is the better quarterback?"

The question was "Who ya got?"

Sure, there’s some room for interpretation. But it’s pretty clear that if the question was something along the lines of “Who ya got as having the best legacy at QB in school history?” or anything along the lines that would involve full body of work, of course the 4-year starter is clearing the guy who has played 5 games here, or the guy who played just one season here.

There is no conversation involving full body of work that could be realistically be made between Fine and the other two right now. Who is better, who you would pick between the three, who is the better QB, those kind of questions that center around quality, not quantity are the only ones that can be had between these guys at this point.

UNTLifer · October 1

9 hours ago, Cooley said:

I liked Fine. Great passer but wasn’t good under pressure and couldn’t run to extend possessions.

Huh? I was with you until this.

https://meangreensports.com/news/2018/6/20/Top_Moments_From_2017_The_Drive

BillySee58 · October 1

3 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Y'all may want to do 3 things here:

1) Review Mason Fine's statistics, and maybe re-watch some of his highlights. I can't believe someone would call his pocket presence, or playing under pressure into question if you were in the house for "The Drive".
2) Review Chandler Rogers' statistics (missing 1/10 of a season twiddling his thumbs on the bench to start the season), and maybe re-watch some of his highlights. I can't help but think his departure is factoring into many of y'all's opinion of him & his play while here. He made a stupid decision, and should still be here.
3) Wait to crown CMorris until he lasts longer in Green than CRogers, and plays decently against the likes of Memphis, Tulane, & Army. If he can do this, maybe he can move up the ladder.

As of right now, I "got": 1. Fine 2. Rogers 3. Morris

I also agree on Rogers. I think Fine, Morris, and Rogers were/are all very good college quarterbacks and I like the conversation of evaluating their quality here because I think it is a really good discussion, as long as we are just evaluating quality. Because if the conversation is “who accomplished more as a Mean Green QB” then obviously the answer is Fine and there’s no room for discussion regarding the Chandlers.

Not sure of the exact number attributable to Fine, but we were sacked 136 times in the 52 games he was on the roster. Call it 120 sacks on Fine in the 49 games he played. That’s about 2.5 sacks taken per game by Fine. And it wasn’t just because we had a bad offensive line. He held on to the ball too long at times throughout his career. Obviously he made up for it, with his performance on the drive being an example that he could get the ball out when he needed to.

This year our line hasn’t exactly been the pillar of consistency in pass protection or with health. Still, Morris has been sacked just 5 times in 5 games and beyond that he just has a better feel on when to climb, when to get out, and having that internal clock to know when to get the ball out. Not to mention doing this with two of our top three outside receivers missing a lot of time. Throwing to Guyton and Bussey on the outside compared to Blair Conwright and Nick Rempert is a material factor to consider as well.

And also, if we’re just evaluating quality of play, Morris has mostly faced bad defenses here but he does have a 461 yard passing performance in Waco against a highly ranked Baylor team on his resume. Again, if we’re evaluating the body of work in a Mean Green career there is no argument. But if we’re just evaluating who is the better QB, that opens up going off of all available sample. Morris’ TCU career he completed 65.5% of his passes and is right at the same number here at UNT, which leads credence that this isn’t a fluke what we have seen in just five games. He has three 400-yard passing performances in his 14 career college starts which is as many as Fine had in 48.

Definitely understand the desire for more sample size to solidify any stance, even qualitative. Morris will never surpass Fine’s UNT totals. These three are all really good Mean Green QBs and they all have put together really high levels of QB play here that feel and are pretty comparable. That’s why there’s a discussion, which is subject to and absolutely allowed to change.

Mean Green 93-98 · October 1

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

. . . But it’s pretty clear that if the question was something along the lines of “Who ya got as having the best legacy at QB in school history?” or anything along the lines that would involve full body of work...

The question was nowhere near that specific. That's why, in addition to asking, "Who ya got?", the O.P. asks, "And why?" As in, use whatever criteria you want.

So it's clearly just meant to be a fun thread putting out opinions about the three. Telling us, "The discourse is terrible" when we're doing what the thread is all about is like stopping a rap concert to correct the grammar.

BillySee58 · October 1

17 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

The question was nowhere near that specific. That's why, in addition to asking, "Who ya got?", the O.P. asks, "And why?" As in, use whatever criteria you want.

So it's clearly just meant to be a fun thread putting out opinions about the three. Telling us, "The discourse is terrible" when we're doing what the thread is all about is like stopping a rap concert to correct the grammar.

I feel like you took the “discourse is terrible” comment personally. I just scanned through the comments plus was going off of previous comments in other threads when I made my comment. Wasn’t meant to be personal or adversarial. Who is your favorite QB isn’t even discourse.