Next Time…

[MeanMag]

1 minute ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Good point. Not sure if we didn't get caught up in the case of an inexperienced head coach candidate who really good at interviewing and a selection committee that maybe did not For whatever reason dig deeper. Look, I am by no means an expert, but either way, if I had an inexperienced candidate come in who was a standout on either side of the ball, I would hope that I would insist that they hire a coordinator for the side they are not going to cover who is experienced. I mean, no disrespect to Eric Morris, but I don't think we needed him so bad that he could have said if you don't agree with everything I want to do, I won't be coming on board. 

100% agree. To my knowledge, UNT could have hired Morris a bunch of other coaches including GJ Kinne and Colby Carthel. By the time we made a decision to fire our head coach some of the options were off the table. I look at Seth as a guy who did a fine job for UNT and Morris as a guy who is not a step up. Not saying we should or should not have fired Seth, but would have expected us to hire a guy who is a step up. Not someone we hope will step up.

The whole way the last coaching change happened was a complete disaster, to me, and everyone responsible for handling that is no longer around. I realize I may be being unfair to the current staff, but that's just how I see it.

[C Rod]

2 minutes ago, Big Z said:

But I have her been so mad at UNT football right now 

Ooo the shots are kicking in!

[Big Z]

2 minutes ago, C Rod said:

Ooo the shots are kicking in!

No way, sober 

[Got5onIt]

I watched Texas State at ASU the other night and TSU should’ve won. Close game, both teams looked evenly matched. NT would’ve gotten smoked by both teams. My mean green fandom flame is burning as dim as ever. There’s always one day, next time, next year, blah blah blah. Oh well, I don’t wear any of my UNT gear like I used to, either. 

Edited September 14 by Got5onIt

[NorthTexasWeLove]

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

This is such a North Texas overreaction. That’s what led to McCarney, and what led to Littrell. Thinking that a coach who had failed by the end needed to be replaced by the polar opposite type of coach.

However, these offensive-minded coaches need an AD who can push back on short-sighted DC hires. Both Morris and Littrell said they made their DC hires based on defenses that they felt were hard to score against. Obviously Dodge hired HS coaches because he thought a good coach would be a good coach at any level.

These were all incredibly short-sighted lines of thinking, just like this post saying we need a defensive HC. Hire good coaches, and make sure they know what to look for in hiring the coordinator on the other side of the ball from where they coach. Beyond just “oh this coach was hard to coach against.”

Hmmm....

Defense wins. Always has. Always will. Ask Morris, Littrell, or Dodge. They'll all tell you that... if their ego allows them to. 

[meaniegreenie]

55 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

But just because you want to run a wide-open offense does not mean you cannot have a good defense. With Morris, it is still to be seen if he seriously considers defense a top priority. As of this point, nothing he's done has shown that he does.

 

50 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I agree with you…but part of the problem with spread offenses is that their teams rarely hit hard in practice…gotta keep those receivers and QBs healthy. Which is why their defenses look weak. Think Big 12 teams over the years against SEC or ACC teams. Physicality wins every time.

Edit - Didn't see Jim's post when I asked this, but I think his response is relevant to my question.

Does the quality/style of our defense affect the practice habits of our offense?

I have no idea how modern teams form their practice squads.  Is the practice squad composed of players that are recruited as eventual players in the system?  How involved is the DC in this group or is it mostly run by graduate assistants?  I haven't been to a practice in nearly 40 years, so have no idea how things are done.

I assume the offense rarely practices against the 2-deep defense, especially given that few of our opponents run the same D.  Any guess as to how our practice D quality compares to those at other AAC schools.

My point being, is this group too slow, etc. that it gives our offense a false sense of ability (and/or bad habits), i.e. expecting to be able to make passes, cuts, etc. that aren't possible against quality players?

Edited September 14 by meaniegreenie

[rcade]

1 hour ago, SilverEagle said:

We saw how Cody Carthel can coach defense a week ago. When he was at Commerce, he coached a (D-2) all-American QB.

He's 27-30 (10-15 conference) as head coach at SFA and the team he brought into Denton was underwhelming. I am having trouble feeling bad that we didn't pick him over Morris.

[untjim1995]

Just now, rcade said:

He's 27-30 (10-15 conference) as head coach at SFA and the team he brought into Denton was underwhelming. I am having trouble feeling bad that we didn't pick him over Morris.

Underwhelming? They didn’t get blown out in a game against a team on the road that has about 20 more scholarship players and plays at an entirely higher level than SFA.

They played us MUCH better than we played in a similar situation today, heading to Lubbock to play a team at a higher level, albeit with the same scholarship levels.

[rcade]

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

Underwhelming? They didn’t get blown out in a game against a team on the road that has about 20 more scholarship players and plays at an entirely higher level than SFA.

The SFA offense scored 13 points, their quarterback overthrew open receivers all night long and they only got 67 yards on the ground. Saying they played better than we did today is saying nothing at all. We stunk in all phases of the game. It was a total performance.

[TIgreen01]

I don’t know.  Kinne at Texas st plays aggressive defense.  Complementary defense.  We simply whiffed on the Littrell firing.  Once he made it past October and on to the conference championship we should’ve just kept him another year.  Kinne would’ve been a much better hire but we waited too long and he was already snatched up.  Maybe he was never even on our radar.  All I know is that we need a coach that fields a complete team and prioritizes fundamentals over gimmicks.  We don’t do the little things right and that’s adds up.

[Mean Green 93-98]

1 minute ago, TIgreen01 said:

Kinne would’ve been a much better hire but we waited too long and he was already snatched up.  Maybe he was never even on our radar.  

I don't think it worked that way.  Texas State was a little ahead of our schedule, and they were looking at both Eric Morris and Kinne.  When we started showing interest in Morris, he quit talking with Texas State.  I don't really know which way they were leaning at the time, but they might have lucked into hiring Kinne over Morris.

[MeanMag]

3 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I don't think it worked that way.  Texas State was a little ahead of our schedule, and they were looking at both Eric Morris and Kinne.  When we started showing interest in Morris, he quit talking with Texas State.  I don't really know which way they were leaning at the time, but they might have lucked into hiring Kinne over Morris.

You can interchange Kinne and Morris at this point. We went from target hiring an OC at legitimate Top 10 offense and team in the hunt for a National Championship one cycle to hiring an OC from a Top 80 offense and trying to decide which former Incarnate Word Head Coach is better.

[rcade]

Getting back to the topic I can appreciate going for a defense-minded coach next time we hire. Everybody wants offense offense offense. We might get a better caliber of coach if we put more value on a defensive guru.

Ironically the coach who brought us the best sustained defensive performance was an offense guy. Darrel Dickey came to Denton after seven jobs as an offense assistant coach or OC, then after he was fired has worked nine more jobs on that side of the ball.

[keith]

2 hours ago, MeanMag said:

You can interchange Kinne and Morris at this point. We went from target hiring an OC at legitimate Top 10 offense and team in the hunt for a National Championship one cycle to hiring an OC from a Top 80 offense and trying to decide which former Incarnate Word Head Coach is better.

So true and so sad.  I don’t know if I should laugh or cry, so I’ll do both 🤣 🥲.

[Venson]

15 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

I’d like to see a defense-first minded head coach.  We may not win many P4 games, but like Corky, Dickey and McCarney we’ll play well on the road most times and vie for a conference championship now and then.
 

Since Dodge I’ve completely had it with the Chunk & Duck-minded guys.  

It’s defense first or nothing!

Rick

I agree with this. The most successful coaches at the highest levels of football have come from the defensive side of the ball. Sure, you will find the occasional offensive guy who wins, but you are most likely to find that winner from the defensive side. I just looked at Super Bowl history and the teams who have won most are teams led by a guy who came from defense. Examples: Don Shula, Tom Landry, Chuck Knoll, John Madden, Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, Jimmy Johnson, George Seifert etc. Sure you will find a Joe Gibbs, Vince Lombardi, or Bill Walsh, but your more successful teams have had defensive leaders. Nick Saban is the most successful college coach and he came from the defensive side of the ball. Defensive guys seem to be able to find great OCs, but offensive guys are hit and miss on finding great DCs. Defense has and always will win championships. We keep hiring up and comers. How about next time we hire an up and coming DC.

[Tom McKrackin]

18 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I just want a good head coach.  A good head coach doesn't emphasize one side of the ball over the other.

McCarney post-2013 was a terrible head coach, regardless of emphasis.

His stroke had a lot to do with that change

[SilverEagle]

17 hours ago, rcade said:

He's 27-30 (10-15 conference) as head coach at SFA and the team he brought into Denton was underwhelming. I am having trouble feeling bad that we didn't pick him over Morris.

And how much in the way of resources does he have to work with? What is SFA's athletic budget compared to ours? What did he and his dad have in the way of resources when they were at WTA&M? They actually built a large fan base and got the communities of Canyon and Amarillo involved in their program.  I guarantee you that if Cody Carthel had been hired, he and his dad would have worked their asses of to recruit, coach football, and get out in the Denton and surrounding communities to promote, promote, promote.

[Rudy]

19 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

We simply whiffed on the Littrell firing.  Once he made it past October and on to the conference championship we should’ve just kept him another year.

This x 1,000.  I feel Seth had taken us as far as he could. He should have been let go sooner, but, staying true to the NT cancer, we allowed him to do just well enough to keep his job until it was too late to get a good coach. 

 

As to the original point in this thread, Defense. Wins. Championships. It doesn't matter how many points YOU score, if you don't stop the opponent, it is a moot point. It seems like too many of these offense "geniuses" don't understand defense, and think you can just outscore everyone. Hire a defense first coach, and let him hire offensive coordinators who can work with what they have until they get the personnel they want in. 

 

On another, somewhat related note, I think this air raid BS is about played out. I think coordinators will start moving back to a balanced offense. 

 

It blows my mind how we continue to REFUSE to have a wishbone package. 

[MAX KOCH]

On 9/14/2024 at 4:56 PM, untjim1995 said:

Underwhelming? They didn’t get blown out in a game against a team on the road that has about 20 more scholarship players and plays at an entirely higher level than SFA.

They played us MUCH better than we played in a similar situation today, heading to Lubbock to play a team at a higher level, albeit with the same scholarship levels.

good analogy   

[Jonnyeagle]

22 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

And how much in the way of resources does he have to work with? What is SFA's athletic budget compared to ours? What did he and his dad have in the way of resources when they were at WTA&M? They actually built a large fan base and got the communities of Canyon and Amarillo involved in their program.  I guarantee you that if Cody Carthel had been hired, he and his dad would have worked their asses of to recruit, coach football, and get out in the Denton and surrounding communities to promote, promote, promote.

I have long thought we invest too much into social media and graphics that make us look like a contender but not enough into the program itself.  Whenever they finalize NIL going through the AD or University, I hope some of these AD operations positions will be moved over to fundraising.  We are woefully poor at fundraising and always have been.

Also, why is it noone in the AD ever gets fired?  That must be one of the safest jobs in the country!

[Green Otaku]

If Morris is eventually fired I'd be ok with not seeing the air raid/Leech offense at UNT ever again.

[untbowler]

How about we hire a coach with College Experience as a HC, who also is ok talking with Reporters, while supporting the University they are employed by wearing that schools Apparel and not some random apparel. 

[TIgreen01]

1 hour ago, Green Otaku said:

If Morris is eventually fired I'd be ok with not seeing the air raid/Leech offense at UNT ever again.

Sorry, but this is nuts.  As others have pointed out, too many high schools in Texas run this offense to not run at least some of the schemes.  We'd effectively knee-cap our recruiting efforts.

The problem has been pairing a defense first mindset along with it.  Seems like Lincoln Riley finally has turned a corner at USC.  That gives me hope that maybe we can do the same, eventually.

[Green Otaku]

22 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

Sorry, but this is nuts.  As others have pointed out, too many high schools in Texas run this offense to not run at least some of the schemes.  We'd effectively knee-cap our recruiting efforts.

The problem has been pairing a defense first mindset along with it.  Seems like Lincoln Riley finally has turned a corner at USC.  That gives me hope that maybe we can do the same, eventually.

All the years we have run that system have not been fruitful, so we just keep doing the same thing? It's fine to take bits and pieces that work, but I would like to see someone outside of this coaching tree.

I think it'd actually be a good thing to expand recruiting.

[MeanMag]

2 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

All the years we have run that system have not been fruitful, so we just keep doing the same thing? It's fine to take bits and pieces that work, but I would like to see someone outside of this coaching tree.

I think it'd actually be a good thing to expand recruiting.

I don't understand how it was not fruitful.

In 2015 UNT was dead last in the entire FBS in offense and 5th to last in defense led by a defensive minded head coach.

Since then, Littrell and his offense gave UNT the best chances to win championships and football games, regardless of bowl game status. Two of the best seasons, record-wise, in history. It took North Texas to 6 bowl games from 2016 to 2022. Prior to that, North Texas had been to 6 bowl games since 1959. To me, that is fruitful.

UNT had a guy that ran a balanced, successful offense that transformed when Mason Fine left to add TE wrinkles. Hired an experienced defensive coordinator with former head coaching experience. Everything fans are currently asking for, I feel like. The results were not there and instead of letting him work through it, powers that be got rid of it.

The grass is always greener... but football and offenses have left the wishbone, the swinging gate, the triple option behind.

If that is the criteria for the next head coach, you may immediately eliminate some of the best options available.