PAC is back

[GMG_Dallas]

2 minutes ago, wardly said:

Just asking, but what exactly do we bring to the table?

What does UTSA bring?

[TIgreen01]

4 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

What does UTSA bring?

Ignorance about how much it sucks to be in a west coast based conference?

Edited September 21 by TIgreen01

[C Rod]

4 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

What does UTSA bring?

If you ask Charles Barkley he’d say churros and big ole women. 

[Rudy]

4 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

What does UTSA bring?

Duh. They bring the San Antonio mark....

 

Sorry, I couldn't finish that with a straight face. 

 

They also bring a really cool plywood cannon. 

[greenminer]

17 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

Ignorance about how much it sucks to be in a west coast based conference?

The race to be a part of P4 takes priority right now, even at the expense of fan travel and interests.

Sucks to be a traveling fan, or want to watch a game on TV that is well out of your time zone.

Athletic departments around the country want to be on prime tv as much as possible.  Big time championships, money, and media exposure all intersect.

Edited September 21 by greenminer

[GMG_Dallas]

1 hour ago, C Rod said:

If you ask Charles Barkley he’d say churros and big ole women. 

You got me. I'm in. 

1 hour ago, Rudy said:

Duh. They bring the San Antonio mark....

 

Sorry, I couldn't finish that with a straight face. 

 

They also bring a really cool plywood cannon. 

The best cannon money can buy. That's for sure why they're going to the PAC.

[MeanGreenGlory]

8 hours ago, wardly said:

Just asking, but what exactly do we bring to the table?

In no particular order:

1. General
   • We're a Carnegie-ranked Tier One public research university (only ~3.7% of all degree-granting institutions in the country have achieved this status).
   • We're actively working on becoming an AAU university (currently only 69 universities).
   • We have over 325,000 alumni who live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, which is the fifth largest media market in the country.
     • For reference:
       • SMU has ~65,000 in the DFW metro
       • TCU has ~82,000 in the DFW metro
       • UTSA has ~150,000 worldwide
       • Tulane has ~162,000 worldwide
       • Memphis has ~165,000 worldwide
   • Based on 2022 data, UNT is the 4th largest university in the state of Texas
     1. Texas A&M - 74,014 students
     2. The University of Texas at Austin - 52,384
     3. University of Houston - 46,700
     4. University of North Texas - 44,767
        • We currently have ~48,000 students in 2024, so there's a chance we may have surpassed University of Houston in student population or are close to passing them.
        • For reference:
          • 2024 Memphis Student Population: 21,736
          • 2024 UTSA Student Population: 35,900
          • 2024 Colorado State Student Population: 33,648
          • 2024 Boise State Student Population: 22,408
          • 2024 Oregon State Student Population: 32,722
          • 2024 Washington State Student Population: ~30,000
   • Our campus quality has increased significantly in the past decade and is on par with the bottom half of P4 campuses (Arizona, Arizona State, etc.) with room to grow
   • Our athletic facilities are comfortably on par with the likes of Colorado State, San Diego State, etc., and we have room to expand in a master-planned athletic village.
     • DATCU stadium is a best-in-class stadium with a brand new broadcasting center
     • Our indoor football practice facility is on par with the best out there
   • We recently announced $21.5 MILLION in stadium naming rights for DATCU Stadium
   • UNT first instituted an athletics fee in 2011 at $10 per credit hour. In 2018, students voted for an increase of $6.25 to $16.25. The fee just increased again, effective Fall 2024, from $16.25 to $17.85 per credit hour.
   • We've sold out of premium football suites and basketball seating for over six consecutive years
   • We pay competitive coaching salaries compared to our conference mates
   • Our non-revenue sports are consistently competitive
   • The most recent publicly available data shows that our athletic department operates at a small profit, which is significant given that many schools operate at a loss
   • We have an athletic legacy, including the legends of Abner Haynes, Mean Joe Greene, and Hayden Fry
2. Football Specific:
   • Our football program has 25 conference championships, which ranks us 13th all time out of 135 FBS football programs in terms of number of conference championships won by a team.
     • 1931 (Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
     • 1932, 1935, 1936, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1946, 1947 (Lone Star Conference)
     • 1950, 1951, 1952, 1955, 1956 (Gulf Coast Conference)
     • 1958, 1959, 1966, 1967, 1973 (Missouri Valley Conference)
     • 1983, 1994 (Southland Conference)
     • 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 (Sun Belt Conference)
   • We've made 13 postseason bowl appearances including 6 in the last decade:
     • 1948 Salad Bowl
     • 1959 Sun Bowl
     • 2001 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2002 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2003 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2004 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2014 Heart of Dallas Bowl
     • 2016 Heart of Dallas Bowl
     • 2017 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2018 New Mexico Bowl
     • 2020 Myrtle Beach Bowl
     • 2021 Frisco Football Classic
     • 2022 Frisco Bowl
   • 78 NFL draft picks
   • We average around 19,025 attendees per home game on average (6–7 win) seasons
   • Our equipment and facilities are competitive with the top quarter of our conference mates despite coming a decade of significantly lower funding.
3. Mens Basketball Specific:
   • We've made it to the NCAA tournament four times, in 1988, 2007, 2010, and 2021.
     • In 2021, we beat a strong Purdue team to advance to the second round
   • We won the 2023 NIT tournament after beating Alcorn, Sam Houston, Oklahoma St., Wisconsin, and UAB.
   • In 2024, we went to the NIT and beat LSU in the first round. We lost to Seton Hall in the second round, and Seaton Hall went on to win the tournament.
   • We've won 21 conference championships:
     • 1921-22, 1922-23, 1925-26, 1926-27 (Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
     • 1937-38, 1941-42, 1942-43, 1947-48 (Lone Star Conference)
     • 1950-51, 1951-52, 1952-53, 1953-54 (Gulf Coast Conference)
     • 1987-88, 1987-88, 1988-89 (Southland Conference)
     • 2006-07, 2009-10, 2009-10 (Sun Belt Conference)
     • 2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22 (Conference USA)
   • In the 2022-2023 season, UNT set a program record for regular season wins with 24 victories. This surpassed our previous record of 23 regular season wins set in the 2021-2022 season.
   • We average 3,700 attendees per home game.
     • For reference:
       • UTSA: 1,051 avg.
       • Texas St: 1,876 avg.
       • Tulane: 1,188 avg.
       • Florida Atlantic: 2,238 avg.
       • South Florida: 3,142 avg.

 

Are we a top SEC or BIG10 program with these metrics? Absolutely not. 

Have we punched above our weight as a holistic athletic department compared to the past 30+ years of lackluster conference arrangements and the lousy media money we've received (and still receive in AAC)? 100% yes. 

So, I will continue to argue that we bring a lot of value to bring to the table.

Why?

Because we have a much better foundation to build on than the likes of UTSA, Texas State, Tulane, and Rice. And we have a much higher ceiling than the likes of Memphis, Oregon State, Washington State, Boise State, SMU, and TCU. 

There are two distinct reasons we haven't gotten closer to that ceiling yet:

1. Too many years spent in poorly managed conferences like the Sun Belt and CUSA that provided little to no exposure and had very low media revenue sharing deals. This resulted in little to no money to expedite our program growth and no exposure to build our brand during our winning seasons.
2. The wrong head football coaches. From the decline of Dickey, we've some how managed to string together Todd Doge, Dan McCarney, Seth Littrell, and now Eric Morris (TBD). The dodge years set us back a decade. McCarney started to turn things around and then he went downhill fast. Littrell had a great early run and then slipped into mediocrity. Morris inherited a conference championship appearance team, and a team that went toe-to-toe with Boise State under an interim head coach, and then proceeded to roll out the nations WORST defense in his first year. If we had just made even two solid hires that sustained success better than McCarney and Littrell, we'd be in a very different situation right now DESPITE not having received significant funds from our conferences.

All this to say...

The University of North Texas is still a sleeping giant. I'm confident that in the right conference environment (read: better media $$) with the right string of coaches, there's no reason we can't become a top-tier BIG12 or ACC program in the next decade.

Edited September 21 by MeanGreenGlory

[MeanGreen22]

20 minutes ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

 

1. Our football program has 25 conference championships, which ranks us 13th all time out of 135 FBS football programs in terms of number of conference championships won by a team.

I don’t understand why this isn’t featured front and center on our stadium like a lot of other programs have. Players and fans should walk in and say “oh shit” when they see a string of championship years a mile long. 

Edited September 21 by MeanGreen22

[MCMLXXX]

23 minutes ago, MeanGreen22 said:

I don’t understand why this isn’t featured front and center on our stadium like a lot of other programs have. Players and fans should walk in and say “oh shit” when they see a string of championship years a mile long. 

They were all listed below the Press Box at Fouts and if listed anywhere at DATCU they are not prominent. I have been told by some that no one cares about the past. 

[NT80]

9 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

That's not what I asked though. If UTSA gets the nod, why would Texas State also get the nod? They seem to be lumped in together as both going. Makes no sense when they cover the same geographic area. So, if you need 4 schools and do Tulane, Memphis, UTSA, who's the fourth?

I have not seen UTSA and Texas State mentioned together for the PAC.

Some have mentioned Texas State as an upgrade replacement for UTSA into the AAC if they leave.   9 members is a better conference number because it allows for 4/4 home/away conference games. 

[Green Lantern]

10 hours ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

In no particular order:

1. General
   • We're a Carnegie-ranked Tier One public research university (only ~3.7% of all degree-granting institutions in the country have achieved this status).
   • We're actively working on becoming an AAU university (currently only 69 universities).
   • We have over 325,000 alumni who live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, which is the fifth largest media market in the country.
     • For reference:
       • SMU has ~65,000 in the DFW metro
       • TCU has ~82,000 in the DFW metro
       • UTSA has ~150,000 worldwide
       • Tulane has ~162,000 worldwide
       • Memphis has ~165,000 worldwide
   • Based on 2022 data, UNT is the 4th largest university in the state of Texas
     1. Texas A&M - 74,014 students
     2. The University of Texas at Austin - 52,384
     3. University of Houston - 46,700
     4. University of North Texas - 44,767
        • We currently have ~48,000 students in 2024, so there's a chance we may have surpassed University of Houston in student population or are close to passing them.
        • For reference:
          • 2024 Memphis Student Population: 21,736
          • 2024 UTSA Student Population: 35,900
          • 2024 Colorado State Student Population: 33,648
          • 2024 Boise State Student Population: 22,408
          • 2024 Oregon State Student Population: 32,722
          • 2024 Washington State Student Population: ~30,000
   • Our campus quality has increased significantly in the past decade and is on par with the bottom half of P4 campuses (Arizona, Arizona State, etc.) with room to grow
   • Our athletic facilities are comfortably on par with the likes of Colorado State, San Diego State, etc., and we have room to expand in a master-planned athletic village.
     • DATCU stadium is a best-in-class stadium with a brand new broadcasting center
     • Our indoor football practice facility is on par with the best out there
   • We recently announced $21.5 MILLION in stadium naming rights for DATCU Stadium
   • UNT first instituted an athletics fee in 2011 at $10 per credit hour. In 2018, students voted for an increase of $6.25 to $16.25. The fee just increased again, effective Fall 2024, from $16.25 to $17.85 per credit hour.
   • We've sold out of premium football suites and basketball seating for over six consecutive years
   • We pay competitive coaching salaries compared to our conference mates
   • Our non-revenue sports are consistently competitive
   • The most recent publicly available data shows that our athletic department operates at a small profit, which is significant given that many schools operate at a loss
   • We have an athletic legacy, including the legends of Abner Haynes, Mean Joe Greene, and Hayden Fry
2. Football Specific:
   • Our football program has 25 conference championships, which ranks us 13th all time out of 135 FBS football programs in terms of number of conference championships won by a team.
     • 1931 (Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
     • 1932, 1935, 1936, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1946, 1947 (Lone Star Conference)
     • 1950, 1951, 1952, 1955, 1956 (Gulf Coast Conference)
     • 1958, 1959, 1966, 1967, 1973 (Missouri Valley Conference)
     • 1983, 1994 (Southland Conference)
     • 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 (Sun Belt Conference)
   • We've made 13 postseason bowl appearances including 6 in the last decade:
     • 1948 Salad Bowl
     • 1959 Sun Bowl
     • 2001 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2002 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2003 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2004 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2014 Heart of Dallas Bowl
     • 2016 Heart of Dallas Bowl
     • 2017 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2018 New Mexico Bowl
     • 2020 Myrtle Beach Bowl
     • 2021 Frisco Football Classic
     • 2022 Frisco Bowl
   • 78 NFL draft picks
   • We average around 19,025 attendees per home game on average (6–7 win) seasons
   • Our equipment and facilities are competitive with the top quarter of our conference mates despite coming a decade of significantly lower funding.
3. Mens Basketball Specific:
   • We've made it to the NCAA tournament four times, in 1988, 2007, 2010, and 2021.
     • In 2021, we beat a strong Purdue team to advance to the second round
   • We won the 2023 NIT tournament after beating Alcorn, Sam Houston, Oklahoma St., Wisconsin, and UAB.
   • In 2024, we went to the NIT and beat LSU in the first round. We lost to Seton Hall in the second round, and Seaton Hall went on to win the tournament.
   • We've won 21 conference championships:
     • 1921-22, 1922-23, 1925-26, 1926-27 (Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
     • 1937-38, 1941-42, 1942-43, 1947-48 (Lone Star Conference)
     • 1950-51, 1951-52, 1952-53, 1953-54 (Gulf Coast Conference)
     • 1987-88, 1987-88, 1988-89 (Southland Conference)
     • 2006-07, 2009-10, 2009-10 (Sun Belt Conference)
     • 2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22 (Conference USA)
   • In the 2022-2023 season, UNT set a program record for regular season wins with 24 victories. This surpassed our previous record of 23 regular season wins set in the 2021-2022 season.
   • We average 3,700 attendees per home game.
     • For reference:
       • UTSA: 1,051 avg.
       • Texas St: 1,876 avg.
       • Tulane: 1,188 avg.
       • Florida Atlantic: 2,238 avg.
       • South Florida: 3,142 avg.

 

Are we a top SEC or BIG10 program with these metrics? Absolutely not. 

Have we punched above our weight as a holistic athletic department compared to the past 30+ years of lackluster conference arrangements and the lousy media money we've received (and still receive in AAC)? 100% yes. 

So, I will continue to argue that we bring a lot of value to bring to the table.

Why?

Because we have a much better foundation to build on than the likes of UTSA, Texas State, Tulane, and Rice. And we have a much higher ceiling than the likes of Memphis, Oregon State, Washington State, Boise State, SMU, and TCU. 

There are two distinct reasons we haven't gotten closer to that ceiling yet:

1. Too many years spent in poorly managed conferences like the Sun Belt and CUSA that provided little to no exposure and had very low media revenue sharing deals. This resulted in little to no money to expedite our program growth and no exposure to build our brand during our winning seasons.
2. The wrong head football coaches. From the decline of Dickey, we've some how managed to string together Todd Doge, Dan McCarney, Seth Littrell, and now Eric Morris (TBD). The dodge years set us back a decade. McCarney started to turn things around and then he went downhill fast. Littrell had a great early run and then slipped into mediocrity. Morris inherited a conference championship appearance team, and a team that went toe-to-toe with Boise State under an interim head coach, and then proceeded to roll out the nations WORST defense in his first year. If we had just made even two solid hires that sustained success better than McCarney and Littrell, we'd be in a very different situation right now DESPITE not having received significant funds from our conferences.

All this to say...

The University of North Texas is still a sleeping giant. I'm confident that in the right conference environment (read: better media $$) with the right string of coaches, there's no reason we can't become a top-tier BIG12 or ACC program in the next decade.

Great encapsulation of our strengths! Nice to see that all pulled together.

Maddening that our history of middling football hires is the reason we’re not at the forefront of the current round of conference shuffling discussion. All the more reason myself and others were advocating for a “surer bet” as HC with some skins and name recognition this past go around. Especially given what we’re capable of paying.

[meangreenfaninno]

11 hours ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

In no particular order:

1. General
   • We're a Carnegie-ranked Tier One public research university (only ~3.7% of all degree-granting institutions in the country have achieved this status).
   • We're actively working on becoming an AAU university (currently only 69 universities).
   • We have over 325,000 alumni who live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, which is the fifth largest media market in the country.
     • For reference:
       • SMU has ~65,000 in the DFW metro
       • TCU has ~82,000 in the DFW metro
       • UTSA has ~150,000 worldwide
       • Tulane has ~162,000 worldwide
       • Memphis has ~165,000 worldwide
   • Based on 2022 data, UNT is the 4th largest university in the state of Texas
     1. Texas A&M - 74,014 students
     2. The University of Texas at Austin - 52,384
     3. University of Houston - 46,700
     4. University of North Texas - 44,767
        • We currently have ~48,000 students in 2024, so there's a chance we may have surpassed University of Houston in student population or are close to passing them.
        • For reference:
          • 2024 Memphis Student Population: 21,736
          • 2024 UTSA Student Population: 35,900
          • 2024 Colorado State Student Population: 33,648
          • 2024 Boise State Student Population: 22,408
          • 2024 Oregon State Student Population: 32,722
          • 2024 Washington State Student Population: ~30,000
   • Our campus quality has increased significantly in the past decade and is on par with the bottom half of P4 campuses (Arizona, Arizona State, etc.) with room to grow
   • Our athletic facilities are comfortably on par with the likes of Colorado State, San Diego State, etc., and we have room to expand in a master-planned athletic village.
     • DATCU stadium is a best-in-class stadium with a brand new broadcasting center
     • Our indoor football practice facility is on par with the best out there
   • We recently announced $21.5 MILLION in stadium naming rights for DATCU Stadium
   • UNT first instituted an athletics fee in 2011 at $10 per credit hour. In 2018, students voted for an increase of $6.25 to $16.25. The fee just increased again, effective Fall 2024, from $16.25 to $17.85 per credit hour.
   • We've sold out of premium football suites and basketball seating for over six consecutive years
   • We pay competitive coaching salaries compared to our conference mates
   • Our non-revenue sports are consistently competitive
   • The most recent publicly available data shows that our athletic department operates at a small profit, which is significant given that many schools operate at a loss
   • We have an athletic legacy, including the legends of Abner Haynes, Mean Joe Greene, and Hayden Fry
2. Football Specific:
   • Our football program has 25 conference championships, which ranks us 13th all time out of 135 FBS football programs in terms of number of conference championships won by a team.
     • 1931 (Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
     • 1932, 1935, 1936, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1946, 1947 (Lone Star Conference)
     • 1950, 1951, 1952, 1955, 1956 (Gulf Coast Conference)
     • 1958, 1959, 1966, 1967, 1973 (Missouri Valley Conference)
     • 1983, 1994 (Southland Conference)
     • 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 (Sun Belt Conference)
   • We've made 13 postseason bowl appearances including 6 in the last decade:
     • 1948 Salad Bowl
     • 1959 Sun Bowl
     • 2001 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2002 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2003 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2004 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2014 Heart of Dallas Bowl
     • 2016 Heart of Dallas Bowl
     • 2017 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2018 New Mexico Bowl
     • 2020 Myrtle Beach Bowl
     • 2021 Frisco Football Classic
     • 2022 Frisco Bowl
   • 78 NFL draft picks
   • We average around 19,025 attendees per home game on average (6–7 win) seasons
   • Our equipment and facilities are competitive with the top quarter of our conference mates despite coming a decade of significantly lower funding.
3. Mens Basketball Specific:
   • We've made it to the NCAA tournament four times, in 1988, 2007, 2010, and 2021.
     • In 2021, we beat a strong Purdue team to advance to the second round
   • We won the 2023 NIT tournament after beating Alcorn, Sam Houston, Oklahoma St., Wisconsin, and UAB.
   • In 2024, we went to the NIT and beat LSU in the first round. We lost to Seton Hall in the second round, and Seaton Hall went on to win the tournament.
   • We've won 21 conference championships:
     • 1921-22, 1922-23, 1925-26, 1926-27 (Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
     • 1937-38, 1941-42, 1942-43, 1947-48 (Lone Star Conference)
     • 1950-51, 1951-52, 1952-53, 1953-54 (Gulf Coast Conference)
     • 1987-88, 1987-88, 1988-89 (Southland Conference)
     • 2006-07, 2009-10, 2009-10 (Sun Belt Conference)
     • 2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22 (Conference USA)
   • In the 2022-2023 season, UNT set a program record for regular season wins with 24 victories. This surpassed our previous record of 23 regular season wins set in the 2021-2022 season.
   • We average 3,700 attendees per home game.
     • For reference:
       • UTSA: 1,051 avg.
       • Texas St: 1,876 avg.
       • Tulane: 1,188 avg.
       • Florida Atlantic: 2,238 avg.
       • South Florida: 3,142 avg.

 

Are we a top SEC or BIG10 program with these metrics? Absolutely not. 

Have we punched above our weight as a holistic athletic department compared to the past 30+ years of lackluster conference arrangements and the lousy media money we've received (and still receive in AAC)? 100% yes. 

So, I will continue to argue that we bring a lot of value to bring to the table.

Why?

Because we have a much better foundation to build on than the likes of UTSA, Texas State, Tulane, and Rice. And we have a much higher ceiling than the likes of Memphis, Oregon State, Washington State, Boise State, SMU, and TCU. 

There are two distinct reasons we haven't gotten closer to that ceiling yet:

1. Too many years spent in poorly managed conferences like the Sun Belt and CUSA that provided little to no exposure and had very low media revenue sharing deals. This resulted in little to no money to expedite our program growth and no exposure to build our brand during our winning seasons.
2. The wrong head football coaches. From the decline of Dickey, we've some how managed to string together Todd Doge, Dan McCarney, Seth Littrell, and now Eric Morris (TBD). The dodge years set us back a decade. McCarney started to turn things around and then he went downhill fast. Littrell had a great early run and then slipped into mediocrity. Morris inherited a conference championship appearance team, and a team that went toe-to-toe with Boise State under an interim head coach, and then proceeded to roll out the nations WORST defense in his first year. If we had just made even two solid hires that sustained success better than McCarney and Littrell, we'd be in a very different situation right now DESPITE not having received significant funds from our conferences.

All this to say...

The University of North Texas is still a sleeping giant. I'm confident that in the right conference environment (read: better media $$) with the right string of coaches, there's no reason we can't become a top-tier BIG12 or ACC program in the next decade.

Great information!!

[TIgreen01]

Football Coaching hires have almost always been head scratching or underwhelming.  You would like to see us swing for the fences at least once in a while.  McCasland was the best hire I’ve ever seen us make…and that was from the minute we hired him.  Stealing the HC from a peer school is something I’d love to see the football team do.

[MeanGreenGlory]

48 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

Football Coaching hires have almost always been head scratching or underwhelming.  You would like to see us swing for the fences at least once in a while.  McCasland was the best hire I’ve ever seen us make…and that was from the minute we hired him.  Stealing the HC from a peer school is something I’d love to see the football team do.

Exactly. 
 

Why we didn’t hire a former D1 football program builder like Fuentes or a successful Sun Belt head coach this last time around is beyond me. 

[SUMG]

Interesting that UNLV and Utah State are now top targets.....wonder if the response from Tulane, Memphis, etc. was luke warm? 

https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/unlv-utah-state-pac-12-expansion-targets?

[GMG_Dallas]

I'm guessing this is the issue for AAC schools...

 

 

[Mean Green 93-98]

28 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I'm guessing this is the issue for AAC schools...

 

 

 

Those are some big numbers.

There's no way UTSA could swing that, even if they wanted to.

With no media deal in hand, the PAC will be lucky to pull anyone out of the AAC.

[wardly]

19 hours ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

In no particular order:

1. General
   • We're a Carnegie-ranked Tier One public research university (only ~3.7% of all degree-granting institutions in the country have achieved this status).
   • We're actively working on becoming an AAU university (currently only 69 universities).
   • We have over 325,000 alumni who live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, which is the fifth largest media market in the country.
     • For reference:
       • SMU has ~65,000 in the DFW metro
       • TCU has ~82,000 in the DFW metro
       • UTSA has ~150,000 worldwide
       • Tulane has ~162,000 worldwide
       • Memphis has ~165,000 worldwide
   • Based on 2022 data, UNT is the 4th largest university in the state of Texas
     1. Texas A&M - 74,014 students
     2. The University of Texas at Austin - 52,384
     3. University of Houston - 46,700
     4. University of North Texas - 44,767
        • We currently have ~48,000 students in 2024, so there's a chance we may have surpassed University of Houston in student population or are close to passing them.
        • For reference:
          • 2024 Memphis Student Population: 21,736
          • 2024 UTSA Student Population: 35,900
          • 2024 Colorado State Student Population: 33,648
          • 2024 Boise State Student Population: 22,408
          • 2024 Oregon State Student Population: 32,722
          • 2024 Washington State Student Population: ~30,000
   • Our campus quality has increased significantly in the past decade and is on par with the bottom half of P4 campuses (Arizona, Arizona State, etc.) with room to grow
   • Our athletic facilities are comfortably on par with the likes of Colorado State, San Diego State, etc., and we have room to expand in a master-planned athletic village.
     • DATCU stadium is a best-in-class stadium with a brand new broadcasting center
     • Our indoor football practice facility is on par with the best out there
   • We recently announced $21.5 MILLION in stadium naming rights for DATCU Stadium
   • UNT first instituted an athletics fee in 2011 at $10 per credit hour. In 2018, students voted for an increase of $6.25 to $16.25. The fee just increased again, effective Fall 2024, from $16.25 to $17.85 per credit hour.
   • We've sold out of premium football suites and basketball seating for over six consecutive years
   • We pay competitive coaching salaries compared to our conference mates
   • Our non-revenue sports are consistently competitive
   • The most recent publicly available data shows that our athletic department operates at a small profit, which is significant given that many schools operate at a loss
   • We have an athletic legacy, including the legends of Abner Haynes, Mean Joe Greene, and Hayden Fry
2. Football Specific:
   • Our football program has 25 conference championships, which ranks us 13th all time out of 135 FBS football programs in terms of number of conference championships won by a team.
     • 1931 (Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
     • 1932, 1935, 1936, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1946, 1947 (Lone Star Conference)
     • 1950, 1951, 1952, 1955, 1956 (Gulf Coast Conference)
     • 1958, 1959, 1966, 1967, 1973 (Missouri Valley Conference)
     • 1983, 1994 (Southland Conference)
     • 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 (Sun Belt Conference)
   • We've made 13 postseason bowl appearances including 6 in the last decade:
     • 1948 Salad Bowl
     • 1959 Sun Bowl
     • 2001 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2002 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2003 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2004 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2014 Heart of Dallas Bowl
     • 2016 Heart of Dallas Bowl
     • 2017 New Orleans Bowl
     • 2018 New Mexico Bowl
     • 2020 Myrtle Beach Bowl
     • 2021 Frisco Football Classic
     • 2022 Frisco Bowl
   • 78 NFL draft picks
   • We average around 19,025 attendees per home game on average (6–7 win) seasons
   • Our equipment and facilities are competitive with the top quarter of our conference mates despite coming a decade of significantly lower funding.
3. Mens Basketball Specific:
   • We've made it to the NCAA tournament four times, in 1988, 2007, 2010, and 2021.
     • In 2021, we beat a strong Purdue team to advance to the second round
   • We won the 2023 NIT tournament after beating Alcorn, Sam Houston, Oklahoma St., Wisconsin, and UAB.
   • In 2024, we went to the NIT and beat LSU in the first round. We lost to Seton Hall in the second round, and Seaton Hall went on to win the tournament.
   • We've won 21 conference championships:
     • 1921-22, 1922-23, 1925-26, 1926-27 (Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
     • 1937-38, 1941-42, 1942-43, 1947-48 (Lone Star Conference)
     • 1950-51, 1951-52, 1952-53, 1953-54 (Gulf Coast Conference)
     • 1987-88, 1987-88, 1988-89 (Southland Conference)
     • 2006-07, 2009-10, 2009-10 (Sun Belt Conference)
     • 2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22 (Conference USA)
   • In the 2022-2023 season, UNT set a program record for regular season wins with 24 victories. This surpassed our previous record of 23 regular season wins set in the 2021-2022 season.
   • We average 3,700 attendees per home game.
     • For reference:
       • UTSA: 1,051 avg.
       • Texas St: 1,876 avg.
       • Tulane: 1,188 avg.
       • Florida Atlantic: 2,238 avg.
       • South Florida: 3,142 avg.

 

Are we a top SEC or BIG10 program with these metrics? Absolutely not. 

Have we punched above our weight as a holistic athletic department compared to the past 30+ years of lackluster conference arrangements and the lousy media money we've received (and still receive in AAC)? 100% yes. 

So, I will continue to argue that we bring a lot of value to bring to the table.

Why?

Because we have a much better foundation to build on than the likes of UTSA, Texas State, Tulane, and Rice. And we have a much higher ceiling than the likes of Memphis, Oregon State, Washington State, Boise State, SMU, and TCU. 

There are two distinct reasons we haven't gotten closer to that ceiling yet:

1. Too many years spent in poorly managed conferences like the Sun Belt and CUSA that provided little to no exposure and had very low media revenue sharing deals. This resulted in little to no money to expedite our program growth and no exposure to build our brand during our winning seasons.
2. The wrong head football coaches. From the decline of Dickey, we've some how managed to string together Todd Doge, Dan McCarney, Seth Littrell, and now Eric Morris (TBD). The dodge years set us back a decade. McCarney started to turn things around and then he went downhill fast. Littrell had a great early run and then slipped into mediocrity. Morris inherited a conference championship appearance team, and a team that went toe-to-toe with Boise State under an interim head coach, and then proceeded to roll out the nations WORST defense in his first year. If we had just made even two solid hires that sustained success better than McCarney and Littrell, we'd be in a very different situation right now DESPITE not having received significant funds from our conferences.

All this to say...

The University of North Texas is still a sleeping giant. I'm confident that in the right conference environment (read: better media $$) with the right string of coaches, there's no reason we can't become a top-tier BIG12 or ACC program in the next decade.

This is great information, but we have been called a sleeping giant for at least 20 years. The reality is that conference realignment is based upon football and tv sets. UTSA 's football program is perceived as going up, UNT's as going nowhere. I will defer to tv interest by viewers of either team other that we garner very little.

[cdizzle86]

The fact that DFW just became the 4th largest tv market in the US will work in our favor no matter the outcome with the PAC.

Just relax.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, cdizzle86 said:

The fact that DFW just became the 4th largest tv market in the US will work in our favor no matter the outcome with the PAC.

Just relax.

Agreed!

[Jonnyeagle]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:25 PM, GMG_Dallas said:

What does UTSA bring?

Not $hit

[Jonnyeagle]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:25 PM, GMG_Dallas said:

What does UTSA bring?

Not $hit

[TripleGrad]

PAC reaches out to JMU after drubbing of North Carolina Tarheels

Source:  absolutely none  🙂

[greenminer]

4 hours ago, wardly said:

The reality is that conference realignment is based upon football and tv sets. UTSA 's football program is perceived as going up, UNT's as going nowhere. I will defer to tv interest by viewers of either team other that we garner very little.

I have optimism that this is not what the higher ups think.

When we joined, Aresco was very explicit: UNT was the only incoming school that checked all their boxes.

Based on the above, It's not such a leap IMO that any administration involved in this stuff is looking at our investment/budget, and not so much our history.

I'm not sure about UTSA: do they see the recent CUSA success, or do they look at the recent Texas State result and ask, is this a sign of what's to come in the post-Harris era?  I assume they would gloss over the UT and Houston-Christian games.

None of the above, if I'm being honest, factors in NIL.  Aresco's view of UNT was pre-NIL era.

Edited September 22 by greenminer

[wardly]

5 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

 

Those are some big numbers.

There's no way UTSA could swing that, even if they wanted to.

With no media deal in hand, the PAC will be lucky to pull anyone out of the AAC.

I hope you are right.If something was going to happen I would have thought it would have by now.