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Sources: UConn, Big 12 in early talks for potential membership

NT80

By NT80
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Meangreen Fight

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18 hours ago, NT80 said:

It's totally about Big 12 Commissioner Brett Yormark wanting their elite basketball programs.  He earlier had floated the idea of UConn and Gonzaga as basketball-only schools, but I guess it fell thru.   The article mentions it'a not near a done deal and several schools have pushed back against it, probably because of their poor football.  Perhaps UConn made a counter offer for all-sports and time to get their football in shape?

But I don’t see how adding UConn Football at any point in the future adds value in the eyes of a media partner.  They will need to rattle off 3 consecutive 9-win or more seasons and knock off some ranked P4 teams along the way to be a football value add for the Big 12.  If I am an AD with good football program and mediocre basketball program you cannot sell me UConn without a big and LONG TERM increase to my school’s share of the yearly media payout.  
 

All the PAC 12 refugees & BYU will vote no. Kansas, Texas Tech and Houston might vote yes.   I don’t see the value any for any other program west of the Mississippi.  
 

So you being the most optimistic you have 6 votes out of 16.   Bret is going to have to wait till the ACC loses FSU & Clemson or gets them a lot closer to the money they want.  ACC defectors outside of maybe Wake Forest and SMU will always be more attractive than UConn to the Big 12.

Edited by Meangreen Fight
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wardly Grand Master

wardly

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8 hours ago, Meangreen Fight said:

But I don’t see how adding UConn Football at any point in the future adds value in the eyes of a media partner.  They will need to rattle off 3 consecutive 9-win or more seasons and knock off some ranked P4 teams along the way to be a football value add for the Big 12.  If I am an AD with good football program and mediocre basketball program you cannot sell me UConn without a big and LONG TERM increase to my school’s share of the yearly media payout.  
 

All the PAC 12 refugees & BYU will vote no. Kansas, Texas Tech and Houston might vote yes.   I don’t see the value any for any other program west of the Mississippi.  
 

So you being the most optimistic you have 6 votes out of 16.   Bret is going to have to wait till the ACC loses FSU & Clemson or gets them a lot closer to the money they want.  ACC defectors outside of maybe Wake Forest and SMU will always be more attractive than UConn to the Big 12.

I doubt that they would be seriously talking if BIG 12 Presidents hadn't already given the green light.

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NT80 Grand Master

NT80

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45 minutes ago, wardly said:

I doubt that they would be seriously talking if BIG 12 Presidents hadn't already given the green light.

Big12 wants their basketball, but not all their athletics (especially their pitiful football).  UConn has probably countered with an all-or-none.  I doubt it gets agreed to.

Meangreen Fight Experienced

Meangreen Fight

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, wardly said:

I doubt that they would be seriously talking if BIG 12 Presidents hadn't already given the green light.

The green light to “talk” is a big difference from having the framework for deal that makes sense for all the teams involved.  Like I said if an addition of a team that isn’t a convenient travel destination doesn’t add you your athletic bottom line way more than the travel cost what is the up side?  Hoping a media partner values UConn Football at some point in the future isn’t a plan it is a dream.  The dream of “capturing” the Northeast market makes sense on paper.  But without lineup shakeup with existing teams, I don’t see a media partner excited for a Big 12 with 18 or more teams. 

Edited by Meangreen Fight
Meangreen Fight Experienced

Meangreen Fight

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

We'll never become a basketball power until we become basketball-first. We have however been closer with basketball than football despite less funds.

Throwing money at basketball hoping to be a powerhouse sounds like the SMU Football plan.  As a cautionary note I heard that UConn Athletic Department has been operating with a +40 million dollar budget deficit the last couple years.

Edited by Meangreen Fight
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GMG_Dallas Grand Master

GMG_Dallas

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, NT80 said:

Big12 wants their basketball, but not all their athletics (especially their pitiful football).  UConn has probably countered with an all-or-none.  I doubt it gets agreed to.

The question here is how much would UConn get for basketball only in the Big 12. The new BE deal is just over $7 mil per year and obviously does not include football. UConn isn't going to make a lateral move financially and they feel they have the men and women basketball brands to push the entire AD into the Big 12. Would a basketball only Big 12 deal be enough for a school like UNT though?

If our men's basketball became good enough to get into the Big 12 as basketball only for say $15 million per year (their current media deal is $44 million total), that would double our current media deal though it would mean parking football somewhere or being independent. Is that worth it for us though? That's what needs to be looked at when focusing on basketball and how that can serve us long-term. We're far from the UConn model but doing what they've done could be an option. Just need to start now.

The other consideration is the Pac. We're in a great media market. The new Pac will need great media markets. I'd love for football to be what propels us into that conversation. A strong basketball program is more and tradition is more likely right now though and in my opinion would separate us from the other Texas G5 schools. Especially when you consider the Pac's strong basketball history.

Edited by GMG_Dallas
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wardly Grand Master

wardly

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3 hours ago, Meangreen Fight said:

The green light to “talk” is a big difference from having the framework for deal that makes sense for all the teams involved.  Like I said if an addition of a team that isn’t a convenient travel destination doesn’t add you your athletic bottom line way more than the travel cost what is the up side?  Hoping a media partner values UConn Football at some point in the future isn’t a plan it is a dream.  The dream of “capturing” the Northeast market makes sense on paper.  But without lineup shakeup with existing teams, I don’t see a media partner excited for a Big 12 with 18 or more teams. 

I have heard that the BIG 12 would like to get to 20 members. However I don't see any advantage for U. Conn. to move only its basketball program. Somehow their football program is in play, which does nothing for the BIG 12.

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Meangreen Fight Experienced

Meangreen Fight

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3 hours ago, wardly said:

I have heard that the BIG 12 would like to get to 20 members. However I don't see any advantage for U. Conn. to move only its basketball program. Somehow their football program is in play, which does nothing for the BIG 12.

The 20 number only makes sense if you are certain that is was media partners will want AND that would mean significantly more per team in the conference.  Big 12 contract runs out in 2031.  I think the 2029-30 ratings for Big 12 regular season games will be the primary driving factor determining the bids they receive for an extension.  I think we will see a decline in ratings after the newness of the playoff.  Barring one the legacy Big 12 teams winning it all and getting to the final 4 in other years I expect that regular season viewership to decline or not grow at rate that make Fox, ESPN, or whoever hand over more money per team that outpaces inflation.  
 

Regardless all of this is infuriating.  We just need a model where 50% of all media distribution revenue group of 100 maximum FBS schools.   These greedy hacks leading all these changes aren’t growing to sport.  They are taking short term maximum payout at the expense of long term stability and growth. 🤷🏽‍♂️

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wardly Grand Master

wardly

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Posted
On 8/24/2024 at 11:18 PM, NT80 said:

Big12 wants their basketball, but not all their athletics (especially their pitiful football).  UConn has probably countered with an all-or-none.  I doubt it gets agreed to.

Maybe you are right. From what I read the BIG 12 commissioner wanted to pull the trigger on U.CONN last year but was rebuffed by the presidents. The Huskies athletic department runs a $40 million deficit with no way to make it up with their basketball in the Big East and as an independent in football so they are trying to hook up with one of the 4 major conferences for all sports. As it happens the BIG 12 commissioner thinks college basketball is under valued hence his interest U. Conn . Their football program would remain an independent until 2031 in a effort to get it up to snuff but probably will always be a bottom feeder. In addition they must give the BIG EAST 27 months notice and a $15 million buy out. Geographically it makes no sense but none of the recent mergers do.

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NT80 Grand Master

NT80

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On 8/25/2024 at 7:03 AM, GMG_Dallas said:

The question here is how much would UConn get for basketball only in the Big 12. The new BE deal is just over $7 mil per year and obviously does not include football. UConn isn't going to make a lateral move financially and they feel they have the men and women basketball brands to push the entire AD into the Big 12. Would a basketball only Big 12 deal be enough for a school like UNT though?

If our men's basketball became good enough to get into the Big 12 as basketball only for say $15 million per year (their current media deal is $44 million total), that would double our current media deal though it would mean parking football somewhere or being independent. Is that worth it for us though? That's what needs to be looked at when focusing on basketball and how that can serve us long-term. We're far from the UConn model but doing what they've done could be an option. Just need to start now.

The other consideration is the Pac. We're in a great media market. The new Pac will need great media markets. I'd love for football to be what propels us into that conversation. A strong basketball program is more and tradition is more likely right now though and in my opinion would separate us from the other Texas G5 schools. Especially when you consider the Pac's strong basketball history.

Our basketball, as good as we think it is or could be, would never get to the level of us being a P4 basketball-only invite. 

Cincy and Houston both had some really good basketball teams over the years, yet it was their combined good football, and locations, that won them invites to the Big12.   They would not have been basketball-only invites either.

An overall good athletic program (especially football) is the best formula for any move up potential to the P4.

Otherwise, I am intrigued by the P2, best of the MWC and best of the AAC combination.   I would hope we could be a part of that conversation if it shows potential.  If not, then lets work on stealing Air Force and Colo. St to the AAC!

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keith Veteran

keith

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On 8/24/2024 at 10:34 AM, wardly said:

Regardless he is talking about UTSA, not UNT.

Exactly.  It's not whether it's a possibility, it's whether you are even in the conversation.  If a school gets enough mentions, then over time it becomes a foregone conclusion in the minds of many, that well, of course they are a candidate.  Simple repetition causes that.  Unfortunately for UNT we are never in the conversation even if it is just click-bait or Internet message board fodder.  

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NM Green Experienced

NM Green

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Wouldn’t Memphis make more sense than UConn? Football and basketball potential. 

GMG

NT80 Grand Master

NT80

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6 hours ago, NM Green said:

Wouldn’t Memphis make more sense than UConn? Football and basketball potential. 

GMG

Both UConn men and women's basketball teams are elite and have been National Champs, multiple times. 

Memphis has been to the NCAA Final Four 3 times, but no championships.  They did win the NIT in 2002 and 2021.  They also vacated wins in some seasons and have been on probation several times. 

Memphis is a smaller media population of about 650K.  I'm sure UConn being fairly close to NYC would be considered to draw their media. 

Memphis football > UConn football.   Guess it depends on what market and area a conference is trying to cover.

untjim1995 Grand Master

untjim1995

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23 hours ago, NM Green said:

Wouldn’t Memphis make more sense than UConn? Football and basketball potential. 

GMG

Memphis hasn't been back to the Elite Eight since they choked in the championship game in 2008. Since then, UConn has won 4 titles. UConn actually won the Big East in football and played OU in the Fiesta Bowl, so it's not like they have never done anything in football. This would be all about basketball for men and women and I believe Yormark is correct about CBB being undervalued, especially women's hoops, which appears to be on the cusp of becoming even more popular than it has already been. The B12 wants to be a combo of the old Big East and old ACC, where they are kings of the basketball world. And I think that is a great idea, as it brings in more dollars and eyeballs to that conference, which will always be behind the B1G and the SEC but can easily stay third in a college athletics world where the top 40-50 brands still exist at a top level.

keith Veteran

keith

Posted
Posted

The UCONN market (NYC, all of Connecticut, Boston, and the rest of New England) dwarfs the Memphis market.  As we've seen lately, geographic footprint isn't what it used to be in terms of conference membership.

As popular as the men's basketball program is in this area, the women's may be even more popular.  They routinely play in front of standing room only crowds at Gample Pavilion on campus (capacity 9,882) and get crowds in the teens at XL Center (capacity 16,294) in Hartford.

Football has been good in the past, so there's no reason they can't be good again.  They beat Notre Dame in South Bend back in the day.

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