Eric Morris vs Seth Littrell

[Cr1028]

2 hours ago, JT Hammons said:

Yeah but I bet you were more than willing to give Seth a pass after one bad season.  I think Caponi will surprise some people this season.  It took him a few years to get things going when he was at State.

(1.) 5-7, 9-3, 9-3, 4-8, 4-5, 6-6, 7-5.

(2.) 4-8, 4-5, 5-7, 6-6, 7-5, 9-3, 9-3.

(3.) 9-3, 9-3, 7-5, 6-6, 5-7, 4-5, 4-8.

At what point would you have fired the coach with these 3 scenarios? Also, consider the coach with these scenarios would have inherited the worst fbs team in all of college football.

Also, what would Morris need to do to merit firing after inheriting a conference championship contending bowl team? How many years does he get a pass? Does he get minimum 4 like Dodge?

[UNTcrazy727]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

(1.) 5-7, 9-3, 9-3, 4-8, 4-5, 6-6, 7-5.

(2.) 4-8, 4-5, 5-7, 6-6, 7-5, 9-3, 9-3.

(3.) 9-3, 9-3, 7-5, 6-6, 5-7, 4-5, 4-8.

At what point would you have fired the coach with these 3 scenarios? Also, consider the coach with these scenarios would have inherited the worst fbs team in all of college football.

Also, what would Morris need to do to merit firing after inheriting a conference championship contending bowl team? How many years does he get a pass? Does he get minimum 4 like Dodge?

(1.) 5-7, 9-3, 9-3, 4-8, 4-5, 6-6 (FIRED), 7-5.

(2.) 4-8, 4-5, 5-7 (FIRED), 6-6, 7-5, 9-3, 9-3.

(3.) 9-3, 9-3, 7-5, 6-6, 5-7, 4-5 (FIRED), 4-8.

[wardly]

2 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Defense gave away the Navy game? That's the one loss I would put on the offense. 

In addition to the 2 turnovers, we turned the ball over on downs when we failed to score from the 1 on our first drive. And on our second drive Trey Cleveland dropped a TD pass that hit him in the chest, forcing us to kick a FG. It should have been 14-0, but instead was 3-0. That was the game. 

I stand corrected. Yes the offense did pitch is and lose a game for us. However I still can't believe how we lost the Memphis game. Oh well.

[Cr1028]

20 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

(1.) 5-7, 9-3, 9-3, 4-8, 4-5, 6-6 (FIRED), 7-5.

(2.) 4-8, 4-5, 5-7 (FIRED), 6-6, 7-5, 9-3, 9-3.

(3.) 9-3, 9-3, 7-5, 6-6, 5-7, 4-5 (FIRED), 4-8.

Thank you 

[Meangreen Fight]

On 8/17/2024 at 7:23 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

I didn't know Mosely was going to hire a Great Value brand Littrell as the replacement though.   Like, why even make the change?

I can only guess and say it was PR move that was not more "fiscally responsible".  Like I have said many times before.  He shouldn't have coached his last season.  The fact that his salary just came off the books January 2024 is ridiculous looking a record with no bowl wins or conference titles.  

On 8/17/2024 at 10:29 AM, TheColonyEagle said:

He is going to have to beat some teams he is not supposed to beat. Seth Littrell pretty much NEVER did that. Eric Morris is going to HAVE to.  

I enjoyed reading this thoughtful post.  I don't why it got 🙄 reactions.   Maybe it was this last part I quoted.   Seems like leadership was so happy after years of being bad they got ahead of themselves.  We were way too excited to be mediocre and competing for a bowl birth.  None of our recent hires have inspired me to be optimistic since McCarney.  I questioned Seth's second extension when it was announced because I felt it was unwarranted.  This program has had everything it has needed to be a upper tier G5 program for a while.  Coaches post Dickey are supposed to win here more specifically have at least 0.500 conference record.  The only thing that should get coaches big raises and extension 2 years early are conference title or running the table in conference regular season.  @Cr1028 your defenses of Seth are sometimes just tedious to read.  A 0.500 coach when you count victories against non-FBS is no a justification to be the top paid coach in your conference, until UTSA's coach runs the table a gets a raise.  He was mediocre, and nobody should be interested in perpetual mediocre Mean Green Football. 

They can double down on mediocrity all they want but I won't be do that with my donations and ticket purchases.  

Edited August 20 by Meangreen Fight

[Meangreen Fight]

On 8/18/2024 at 1:15 PM, jtm0097 said:

This year and next will determine if he's Todd Dodge 2.0 or Seth Littrell 2.0. 

Are those our only choices? 🤢🤮

[Cr1028]

11 hours ago, Meangreen Fight said:

I can only guess and say it was PR move that was not more "fiscally responsible".  Like I have said many times before.  He shouldn't have coached his last season.  The fact that his salary just came off the books January 2024 is ridiculous looking a record with no bowl wins or conference titles.  

I enjoyed reading this thoughtful post.  I don't why it got 🙄 reactions.   Maybe it was this last part I quoted.   Seems like leadership was so happy after years of being bad they got ahead of themselves.  We were way too excited to be mediocre and competing for a bowl birth.  None of our recent hires have inspired me to be optimistic since McCarney.  I questioned Seth's second extension when it was announced because I felt it was unwarranted.  This program has had everything it has needed to be a upper tier G5 program for a while.  Coaches post Dickey are supposed to win here more specifically have at least 0.500 conference record.  The only thing that should get coaches big raises and extension 2 years early are conference title or running the table in conference regular season.  @Cr1028 your defenses of Seth are sometimes just tedious to read.  A 0.500 coach when you count victories against non-FBS is no a justification to be the top paid coach in your conference, until UTSA's coach runs the table a gets a raise.  He was mediocre, and nobody should be interested in perpetual mediocre Mean Green Football. 

They can double down on mediocrity all they want but I won't be do that with my donations and ticket purchases.  

You say these things as if we are other schools. A .500 season is historically good for us. You think just because we put a few more resources into football that we should just be great all of a sudden but guess what, almost every other program has stepped up their resources too and some of them don’t have the reputation of being a coaching graveyard. This is why we have to overpay for scrubs like Morris. Littrell had us on the rise, yes it was painfully slow, but we improved every year after the disastrous Bodie Reeder experiment. Some got impatient and now it seems we are back to going in the typical Mean Green direction, down.

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

You say these things as if we are other schools. A .500 season is historically good for us. You think just because we put a few more resources into football that we should just be great all of a sudden but guess what, almost every other program has stepped up their resources too and some of them don’t have the reputation of being a coaching graveyard. This is why we have to overpay for scrubs like Morris. Littrell had us on the rise, yes it was painfully slow, but we improved every year after the disastrous Bodie Reeder experiment. Some got impatient and now it seems we are back to going in the typical Mean Green direction, down.

We rolled the dice.   We had to.   Stagnation was not good.   

SL showed us what GOOD FOOTBALL around here can look like.  We hadn't seen it since the flash-in-the-pan 2013 season.  It was nice.  It felt good.   SL had fire (remember "Get after their asses!")....  Then, we dropped back to ~.500.  SL looked and sounded like a defeated coach.  We couldn't stay there.

Some really good options would have killed to come here.  We had a chance to really make a statement.   We went cheap instead.   We get what we pay for.

[Cooke County Kid]

One season a career does not make.  In Morris’ third season if he has not had a winning season and WON a bowl game he needs to go, period.  I believe this year will tell us a lot about what kind of coach we have, let us hope we are surprised!

[GrandGreen]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

We rolled the dice.   We had to.   Stagnation was not good.   

SL showed us what GOOD FOOTBALL around here can look like.  We hadn't seen it since the flash-in-the-pan 2013 season.  It was nice.  It felt good.   SL had fire (remember "Get after their asses!")....  Then, we dropped back to ~.500.  SL looked and sounded like a defeated coach.  We couldn't stay there.

Some really good options would have killed to come here.  We had a chance to really make a statement.   We went cheap instead.   We get what we pay for.

I prefer to give a coach a couple of years to prove his worth.  

I really don't get these types of threads, did you expect Morris to go undefeated in his first year?

 

[untjim1995]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

We rolled the dice.   We had to.   Stagnation was not good.   

SL showed us what GOOD FOOTBALL around here can look like.  We hadn't seen it since the flash-in-the-pan 2013 season.  It was nice.  It felt good.   SL had fire (remember "Get after their asses!")....  Then, we dropped back to ~.500.  SL looked and sounded like a defeated coach.  We couldn't stay there.

Some really good options would have killed to come here.  We had a chance to really make a statement.   We went cheap instead.   We get what we pay for.

SL got beaten down here, just like DMac did, just like Dickey did...

The only coach we have had in the last 40 years that wasn't completely beaten down by our culture was Corky. And he might have just been a masochist, as he had absolutely nothing to work with, resource-wise. 

Since 1995, when we moved up to 1-A again (FBS now), we have had the luxury of seeing us enjoy 6 winning seasons--out of 29. That's 7 coaches, (Simon, Dickey, Dodge, McCarney, Chico (interim x2), Littrell, and now Morris), 4 different ADs (Helwig, RV, Wren Baker, and Mosley), 4 conferences (Big West, SBC, CUSA, and AAC), and 2 stadiums. 

Also, the above all occurred when a school like ours could actually KEEP its players beyond a season or two, which is now gone completely. As I've said, when we have a winning season, savor it. Because once we start losing again, it usually lasts for quite a while. Maybe 2024 will be different...maybe Morris and his new team will figure it all out and we will get to bowl again with an actual 7-win team. But all indicators--and history-- suggest otherwise.

[RBP79]

36 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I prefer to give a coach a couple of years to prove his worth.  

I really don't get these types of threads, did you expect Morris to go undefeated in his first year?

 

No....But I thought he was hired to take us to the promise land. We must be walking there. 

Do or die year for Morris...

[Meangreen Fight]

12 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

You think just because we put a few more resources into football that we should just be great all of a sudden but guess what, almost every other program has stepped up their resources too and some of them don’t have the reputation of being a coaching graveyard

Nope but what I expect isn't great.  Programs that started from scratch or stepped up to FBS after 2000 get on our schedule or get in our conference, beat us and surpass us in the standings every year INCLUDING some of our "best" years as you measure them.   Excuses at your job or made to your customers when you paid top dollar will get you fired.  And the "coaching graveyard" excuse isn't one.  There are only 134 jobs at this level in all of American Football.  And when you compare our situation to places like Vandy, Indiana, South Carolina, and many other with no chance to ever qualify for their Conference title North Texas isn't that bad.  I could rattle off at least 30 FBS Head Coaching jobs that have far less realistic upside than North Texas.  Hell at the service academies your hands are tied behind your back as a coach.

UCF, USF, and UTSA joined FBS after 2000.  USF played their FIRST football game at any level in 1997 and UTSA did in 2011.

Coastal Carolina spent an entire season ranked in the AP top 25.  Their first football season was 2003 and first FBS season 2017.

Let me be CLEAR, I am NOT expecting greatness. Like the heights of these new to FBS programs I just mentioned   I am expecting competence and to be good competing for conference titles into November often.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

23 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

I prefer to give a coach a couple of years to prove his worth.  

I really don't get these types of threads, did you expect Morris to go undefeated in his first year?

 

I expected an upgrade from what we had previously, which was a 7-win season (forget about qualifying for the CCG) and a bowl game.  Heck, even another 7-win season would be somewhat sufficient since we moved to the AAC, and our schedule was slightly more difficult.

I expected to thoroughly defeat a poor FIU team we had demolished the season before.

So no, your hyperbole was not expected by anyone.  But usually when you fire a coach, you expect the replacement to STEP FORWARD, immediately... not backward.

[Meangreen Fight]

11 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

So no, your hyperbole was not expected by anyone.  But usually when you fire a coach, you expect the replacement to STEP FORWARD, immediately... not backward.

No, no settle down sir you expect "the greatness of 0.500 vs FBS competition".  You can only aspire to that at little ole small North Texas when we only been playing football over 100 years.  Little Ole UNT has 25 conference titles with only officially 4 at FBS level.  You can't dare to have the audacity to be frustrated with this program that constantly overachieves while drastically under paying coaches who selflessly coach our teams.   With all that said can I mark you down for increasing your Athletic Fund donations this year by a minimum of 35% like a good alumni and fan should never question?  

- Mean Green Football General Manager CM Burns

 

 

Edited August 22 by Meangreen Fight

[TIgreen01]

It really all just comes down to his defense.  If we field the worst defense in the country again, or even in the bottom 5-10, and it costs us a winning record, then it needs to be over and we need to move on.  That's not a generality, but specific to this situation at North Texas right now because of what happened last year.  You cannot inherit a bowl team, immediately miss a bowl in your first season while fielding the worst defense in the country, then choose to run it back and get the same results. 

Morris' offense looked legit last year.  Even better than Littrell.  He immediately upgraded the QB talent, which is huge.  But Littrell constantly fiddled with the defense when it sucked.  It didn't always yield great defenses, but he changed coaches and schemes when it was obvious things weren't working.  As a HC, so far, Morris is whiffing on one side of the ball.  Hopefully his trust in Caponi and this scheme is paid off for all of our sakes.  I don't want to watch that 2023 defense ever again.

[Mean Green 93-98]

13 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

It really all just comes down to his defense.  If we field the worst defense in the country again, or even in the bottom 5-10, and it costs us a winning record, then it needs to be over and we need to move on.  That's not a generality, but specific to this situation at North Texas right now because of what happened last year.  You cannot inherit a bowl team, immediately miss a bowl in your first season while fielding the worst defense in the country, then choose to run it back and get the same results. 

Morris' offense looked legit last year.  Even better than Littrell.  He immediately upgraded the QB talent, which is huge.  But Littrell constantly fiddled with the defense when it sucked.  It didn't always yield great defenses, but he changed coaches and schemes when it was obvious things weren't working.  As a HC, so far, Morris is whiffing on one side of the ball.  Hopefully his trust in Caponi and this scheme is paid off for all of our sakes.  I don't want to watch that 2023 defense ever again.

I agree with everything you said, but you know we aren't firing Morris with 3 years left on his contract.  Aren't we still paying Littrell this year?

[Green Lantern]

9 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

It really all just comes down to his defense.  If we field the worst defense in the country again, or even in the bottom 5-10, and it costs us a winning record, then it needs to be over and we need to move on. 

Honestly I think it’s this simple. He either looks like a genius for riding with Caponi in year 2 if the 3-3-5 works with new personnel and we all come on here and happily eat crow, OR he digs his own grave if the defense amounts to anything resembling last year. I hated everything about the 2023 defense. 

[UNT78]

Look at Texas State, hired the Incarnate word coach, there two years, went to the FCS playoffs, Brought in 56 new transfers and turned the Texas State team completely around to a 9-4 team…won their bowl game with Rice in Dallas (SMU stadium) to a full house…we probably interview their coach, but chose Morris, our mistake! Morris better produce this season or else!

[Jonnyeagle]

8 hours ago, UNT78 said:

Look at Texas State, hired the Incarnate word coach, there two years, went to the FCS playoffs, Brought in 56 new transfers and turned the Texas State team completely around to a 9-4 team…won their bowl game with Rice in Dallas (SMU stadium) to a full house…we probably interview their coach, but chose Morris, our mistake! Morris better produce this season or else!

I am starting to think we screwed up by nit considering the Texas State coach.  Hope like heck I am wrong!

[GoGreenBeans]

1. I don't really see the reason for having this comparison, especially so early on for Morris lol

2. If Morris can equal Seth, or hopefully be a step ahead, I see both scenarios as a win. Seth needed to go because we became stagnant. If Morris ends up being like Seth, I still don't see an issue with letting Seth leave, because it shows we tried to improve

3. Seriously...why do we keep bringing up Seth? 

[RBP79]

On 8/22/2024 at 9:22 AM, GoGreenBeans said:

1. I don't really see the reason for having this comparison, especially so early on for Morris lol

2. If Morris can equal Seth, or hopefully be a step ahead, I see both scenarios as a win. Seth needed to go because we became stagnant. If Morris ends up being like Seth, I still don't see an issue with letting Seth leave, because it shows we tried to improve

3. Seriously...why do we keep bringing up Seth? 

1. cause after one season Morris didn't show ANY improvement over the former HFC. I thought the Fire/Hire was suppose to bring improvement.

2. So your happy with paying a coach to leave even though his last year was better than the present coach first year. The Idea of getting a new HFC is to improve your game. Morris may blossom this year..

3. We keep talking about Seth because he was a .500+ coach......as he sits up in Norman as the OC of the Sooners and counts all that Mean Green Greenback. I think Seth is more happy with his present position than we are with his replacement..lol

Edited August 23 by RBP79

[Meangreen Fight]

22 hours ago, GoGreenBeans said:

3. Seriously...why do we keep bringing up Seth?

For me it is in response to people defending his mediocre 0 conference titles and 0 bowl game wins like he was great and did us a favor by coaching here get a salary within top 10% of  G5 coach salary.  That defense is indictive of fans and alumni making far too many excuses  for leadership of this program.  This program had no qualms about throwing out a head coach with conference titles and a bowl win, after a couple bad seasons you could partially blame on his health problems (heart attack) and losing the heir apparent starting QB in a traffic accident.  That coach had the audacity to point out the serious short comings when it came to institutional support for Mean Green Football.  He won at the dump that was the last 10 years in the life of Fouts Field.  A stadium worse than a lot of the better 5A and 6A highschool stadium of that time.  The culture of a large part of the fandom of Mean Green Football is to 💩 on people who just expect competence and are reluctant to celebrate any accomplishment that doesn't come with team hardware.  Yes, getting into bowls and championship games are an accomplishment.  But a bowl game win with more than half of FBS teams getting an invite just means you aren't bad when you win them.

Edited August 23 by Meangreen Fight

[Meangreen Fight]

1 hour ago, GoGreenBeans said:

3. Seriously...why do we keep bringing up Seth?

For me it is in response to people defending his mediocre 0 conference titles and 0 bowl game wins like he was great and did us a favor by coaching here get a salary within top 10% of  G5 coach salary.  That defense is indictive of fans and alumni making far too many excuses  for leadership of this program.  This program had no qualms about throwing out a head coach with conference titles and a bowl win, after a couple bad seasons that you could partially blame on his health problems (heart attack) and losing the heir apparent starting QB in traffic accident.  That coach had the audacity to point out the serious short comings when it came to institutional support for Mean Green Football.  He won at the dump that was the last 10 years in the life of Fouts Field.  This program will never win the fan support it needs to be stable until 0.500 against FBS competition is consistently met.  So the history of not our team not meeting that standard is irrelevant if we want a positive future for Mean Green Football.  A 0.500 Mean Green program will never sellout our staduim but it will kept from less than 1/2 full. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

22 minutes ago, Meangreen Fight said:

For me it is in response to people defending his mediocre 0 conference titles and 0 bowl game wins like he was great and did us a favor by coaching here get a salary within top 10% of  G5 coach salary.  That defense is indictive of fans and alumni making far too many excuses  for leadership of this program.  This program had no qualms about throwing out a head coach with conference titles and a bowl win, after a couple bad seasons that you could partially blame on his health problems (heart attack) and losing the heir apparent starting QB in traffic accident.  That coach had the audacity to point out the serious short comings when it came to institutional support for Mean Green Football.  He won at the dump that was the last 10 years in the life of Fouts Field.  This program will never win the fan support it needs to be stable until 0.500 against FBS competition is consistently met.  So the history of not our team not meeting that standard is irrelevant if we want a positive future for Mean Green Football.  A 0.500 Mean Green program will never sellout our staduim but it will kept from less than 1/2 full. 

I think the reason people keep bringing up Littrell is because during the week of September 22-29, 2018, a very very high number of Mean Green faithful believed we had truly turned that corner.   Starting the year 4-0, including beating Arkansas on the road (I don't care how bad Arkansas turned out to be that season), after going 9-4 the previous season.   That week was probably the high water mark of Mean Green football from my viewpoint (and I was around for the Dickey years).   I never felt more confident in where NT football was headed than that week.