Eric Morris vs Seth Littrell

TheColonyEagle · August 18

2 hours ago, wardly said:

Personally I don't know how to evaluate our team based upon all the new faces but deferring to those who make a living evaluating talent we are ranked 9th in the AAC with projected 4 to 5 wins. I hope you are right and they are wrong, but what really disturbs me is that Texas State and UTSA are ranked so much higher than UNT.

Fair Point

greenminer · August 18

23 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

UTSA seemed to figure out the QB puzzle.

Not sure having one good QB for 6 years is "figuring out" a puzzle.

@Mean Green 93-98 is right, though. My takeaway: you still need a championship defense.

Edited August 18 by greenminer

NT80 · August 18

2 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Same. Not sure wth mosely was thinking.

He wanted someone we could afford, had HC experience, P5 experience, and Texas connections. Morris checked all the boxes. The DC hire and scheme has been questionable. The 5-7 record included 7 one-score games, an indication we were competitive in most games. Like most, I expect a better showing this year record-wise after an acclimation year.

Cr1028 · August 18

3 hours ago, jtm0097 said:

Morris gets a hall pass for last year. It was his first year as HC. I know, we were in the C-USA conference championship the year before. The 3-3-5 was an utter disappointment. Now, the roster is pretty much guys he recruited (I counted 10 Littrell guys on the current roster). If we don't make a bowl game this year, I will be in the "what are we doing here" camp.

Littrell didn’t get a hall pass in 2020 when he had to use grad assistants for a qb coach and you never knew which players would be available week to week because of covid testing.

Littrell didn’t get a hall pass in 2019 when his OC/quarterbacks coach, running backs coach, wide receivers coach, and co-DC/linebackers coach were all poached by big name/money schools.

Why should Morris, who hails from the same coaching tree as Littrell, get a hall pass?

Edited August 18 by Cr1028

jtm0097 · August 18

28 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Littrell didn’t get a hall pass in 2020 when he had to use grad assistants for a qb coach and you never knew which players would be available week to week because of covid testing.

Littrell didn’t get a hall pass in 2019 when his OC/quarterbacks coach, running backs coach, wide receivers coach, and co-DC/linebackers coach were all poached by big name/money schools.

Why should Morris, who hails from the same coaching tree as Littrell, get a hall pass?

2019 and 2020 were year 4 and 5. Can't really compare that to year 1. I think it's safe to say Littrell was given a hall pass. They kept him for 2 more seasons, he never won a bowl game, and he was a .500 coach.

Seth should be kissing the ground that his snake of an agent Jimmy Sexton walks on. He bamboozled Wren into thinking Seth was going to Kansas State. I have heard from a few people that Seth never had an offer.

Oh well, let's hope and pray this team improves this year. We went cheap on the Morris hire, and at the moment we don't know if it's the right hire or not. This year and next will determine if he's Todd Dodge 2.0 or Seth Littrell 2.0.

Cooke County Kid · August 18

We need some DEFENSE!!!

Cr1028 · August 18

52 minutes ago, jtm0097 said:

2019 and 2020 were year 4 and 5. Can't really compare that to year 1. I think it's safe to say Littrell was given a hall pass. They kept him for 2 more seasons, he never won a bowl game, and he was a .500 coach.

And what did he do with those two seasons? He improved both years. The first year he knocked off a ranked and undefeated UTSA to get to bowl eligibility. The second year he was a pass interference call away from beating eventual champion UTSA in their house, led us to the second conference title game of his tenure, and another bowl game. You say “year 4 and 5” but with the staff turnover he face after 2018 and 2019, you could put him almost in the same category as a second year 1. This team was built to compete and was on the rise. Eric Morris decided he couldn’t build on that and chose to tear it down instead.

Mean Green 93-98 · August 18

1 hour ago, jtm0097 said:

I have heard from a few people that Seth never had an offer.

It depends on what you mean by "offer." The job was his if he agreed to their demands, and he wouldn't.

NorthTexasWeLove · August 18

23 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

And what did he do with those two seasons? He improved both years. The first year he knocked off a ranked and undefeated UTSA to get to bowl eligibility. The second year he was a pass interference call away from beating eventual champion UTSA in their house, led us to the second conference title game of his tenure, and another bowl game. You say “year 4 and 5” but with the staff turnover he face after 2018 and 2019, you could put him almost in the same category as a second year 1. This team was built to compete and was on the rise. Eric Morris decided he couldn’t build on that and chose to tear it down instead.

SL was kept too long. The program grew stagnant. It felt like he peaked and that winning a conference 🏆 or even bowl game was always going to be out of reach. Then Mosely goes out and hires a lesser version of SL and I honestly expect lesser results. Right now: they're both 5-7 after year 1. SL has the advantage because he inherited a trainwreck whereas EM inherited a little bit of stability. So, we already have a poorer version of SL just after year 1.

97and03 · August 18

3 hours ago, NT80 said:

He wanted someone we could afford, had HC experience, P5 experience, and Texas connections. Morris checked all the boxes. The DC hire and scheme has been questionable. The 5-7 record included 7 one-score games, an indication we were competitive in most games. Like most, I expect a better showing this year record-wise after an acclimation year.

Hiring Morris is the most NT thing ever. What was inexcusable was paying top dollar for a DC who had never been a coordinator previously (ok D3 or whatever doesn’t count).

Mean Green 93-98 · August 18

2 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Hiring Morris is the most NT thing ever.

Personally, I thought it was the least NT thing ever. Every coaching hire we had made previously (during my time following NT), we've always swung the pendulum to the opposite extreme. Dickey had a pro-set, smashmouth offense with minimal passing, so we hire a spread-offense guy who throws it all over the field. Then we go back to the other extreme with McCarney. Then we go back again to pass-happy with Littrell, at least his original offense with Graham Harrell.

Morris was the first coach hired in years who was positioned to build on his predecessor's system and roster for immediate success.

Morris's failure to capitalize on that, at least in his first year, is on him.

NorthTexasWeLove · August 18

2 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Personally, I thought it was the least NT thing ever. Every coaching hire we had made previously (during my time following NT), we've always swung the pendulum to the opposite extreme. Dickey had a pro-set, smashmouth offense with minimal passing, so we hire a spread-offense guy who throws it all over the field. Then we go back to the other extreme with McCarney. Then we go back again to pass-happy with Littrell, at least his original offense with Graham Harrell.

Morris was the first coach hired in years who was positioned to build on his predecessor's system and roster for immediate success.

Morris's failure to capitalize on that, at least in his first year, is on him.

It was both... not a change of direction in regard to philosophy as UNT always does. However, it was very UNT in terms of EM sort of being a budget hire. The Caponi fiasco will be the thing that sets Morris' career back a half decade or more.

97and03 · August 18

19 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Personally, I thought it was the least NT thing ever. Every coaching hire we had made previously (during my time following NT), we've always swung the pendulum to the opposite extreme. Dickey had a pro-set, smashmouth offense with minimal passing, so we hire a spread-offense guy who throws it all over the field. Then we go back to the other extreme with McCarney. Then we go back again to pass-happy with Littrell, at least his original offense with Graham Harrell.

Morris was the first coach hired in years who was positioned to build on his predecessor's system and roster for immediate success.

Morris's failure to capitalize on that, at least in his first year, is on him.

That is a fair point. I was referring to hiring an unproven HC when we seemed to have better options.

Edited August 18 by 97and03

NT80 · August 18

2 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

That is a fair point. I was referring to hiring an unproven HC when we seemed to have better options.

He won as a HC in FCS and took them into the FCS playoffs twice.

NT80 · August 18

25 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Morris was the first coach hired in years who was positioned to build on his predecessor's system and roster for immediate success.

Morris's failure to capitalize on that, at least in his first year, is on him.

Morris didn't get much of a roster from Seth.

No workable QB and many players bailed with the coaching change.

97and03 · August 18

4 minutes ago, NT80 said:

He won as a HC in FCS and took them into the FCS playoffs twice.

Yes he did, although that first appearance was a 6-5 season. The final year was impressive, but then surprisingly bailed to OC at Washington St. Was a HC four years at the FCS level. Better experience than Littrell when we hired him so that is a plus. But there were more experienced guys out there with real FBS results to be had at the same or similar money. At the very least, the Caponi hire and massive overpayment is a permanent black mark on his reputation and decision making.

UNTLifer · August 18

8 hours ago, wardly said:

Personally I don't know how to evaluate our team based upon all the new faces but deferring to those who make a living evaluating talent we are ranked 9th in the AAC with projected 4 to 5 wins. I hope you are right and they are wrong, but what really disturbs me is that Texas State and UTSA are ranked so much higher than UNT.

This is just it. There is no way to evaluate any of these programs with so much change from last year.

NT80 · August 18

1 hour ago, 97and03 said:

Yes he did, although that first appearance was a 6-5 season. The final year was impressive, but then surprisingly bailed to OC at Washington St. Was a HC four years at the FCS level. Better experience than Littrell when we hired him so that is a plus. But there were more experienced guys out there with real FBS results to be had at the same or similar money. At the very least, the Caponi hire and massive overpayment is a permanent black mark on his reputation and decision making.

I also wanted a more experienced FBS HC too, but it seems all we can get/afford are re-tread FBS coaches that got fired somewhere else. It's either try a young up and coming stud HS coach like Parker or Dodge, a young OC like Morris, Seth, Dickey, Nelson, etc or a former FBS HC like Bob Tyler, McCarney, Fry. Pick your poison. The DC Morris hired got a 2-year deal as I believe like most coordinators get at FBS programs. Position coaches are typically on one-year contracts.

untjim1995 · August 19

6 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It was both... not a change of direction in regard to philosophy as UNT always does. However, it was very UNT in terms of EM sort of being a budget hire. The Caponi fiasco will be the thing that sets Morris' career back a half decade or more.

The budget hire is something we almost always get or keep. I doubt Morris will be any different.

MeanGreenTexan · August 19

22 hours ago, jtm0097 said:

Morris gets a hall pass for last year. It was his first year as HC. I know, we were in the C-USA conference championship the year before. The 3-3-5 was an utter disappointment. Now, the roster is pretty much guys he recruited (I counted 10 Littrell guys on the current roster). If we don't make a bowl game this year, I will be in the "what are we doing here" camp.

I bet UNLV is thankful that they don't have to give Barry Odom (a dude UNT MOST CERTAINLY could have hired) a "hall pass" after taking them from 5-7 the previous season to 9-4 last year.

The hall pass caught fire when we lost to FIU last year. It was incinerated when we failed to make a DC change after a Ron-Mendoza-level defensive performance.

Nah bro.
No hall pass.
Last year was a failure, even for a new coach.
Win Now.

jtm0097 · August 19

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I bet UNLV is thankful that they don't have to give Barry Odom (a dude UNT MOST CERTAINLY could have hired) a "hall pass" after taking them from 5-7 the previous season to 9-4 last year.

The hall pass caught fire when we lost to FIU last year. It was incinerated when we failed to make a DC change after a Ron-Mendoza-level defensive performance.

Nah bro.
No hall pass.
Last year was a failure, even for a new coach.
Win Now.

Drink some coffee, it's too early to be this mad lol.

But yes, win now. The roster is shaped to how Morris wants it. Time for him to prove that last year was an anomaly.

JT Hammons · August 19

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I bet UNLV is thankful that they don't have to give Barry Odom (a dude UNT MOST CERTAINLY could have hired) a "hall pass" after taking them from 5-7 the previous season to 9-4 last year.

The hall pass caught fire when we lost to FIU last year. It was incinerated when we failed to make a DC change after a Ron-Mendoza-level defensive performance.

Nah bro.
No hall pass.
Last year was a failure, even for a new coach.
Win Now.

Yeah but I bet you were more than willing to give Seth a pass after one bad season. I think Caponi will surprise some people this season. It took him a few years to get things going when he was at State.

untjim1995 · August 19

9 minutes ago, JT Hammons said:

Yeah but I bet you were more than willing to give Seth a pass after one bad season. I think Caponi will surprise some people this season. It took him a few years to get things going when he was at State.

By the time he had a bad season, Littrell had built up enough cred with the seasons that he had shown the fanbase that he could win with the right QB and the right OC. Once he lost Harrell, the wheels fell off, especially after Mason Fine (or what was still left of him after the beating he took) left. But by then, he had an extension and wasn't getting fired until it was deemed affordable to buy him out. And when he was let go of, we went the UNT Route again, hiring the next up-and-comer that just also happened to be cheaper to hire than someone like Odom or Fuente.

wardly · August 19

23 hours ago, NT80 said:

He wanted someone we could afford, had HC experience, P5 experience, and Texas connections. Morris checked all the boxes. The DC hire and scheme has been questionable. The 5-7 record included 7 one-score games, an indication we were competitive in most games. Like most, I expect a better showing this year record-wise after an acclimation year.

Agreed. Our defense gave away both the Navy and Memphis games. We could of easily been 7 & 5.

UNTcrazy727 · August 19

39 minutes ago, wardly said:

Agreed. Our defense gave away both the Navy and Memphis games. We could of easily been 7 & 5.

Defense gave away the Navy game? That's the one loss I would put on the offense.

In addition to the 2 turnovers, we turned the ball over on downs when we failed to score from the 1 on our first drive. And on our second drive Trey Cleveland dropped a TD pass that hit him in the chest, forcing us to kick a FG. It should have been 14-0, but instead was 3-0. That was the game.