If you can accept we are a minor league now

wardly · August 5

2 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Its more like the last 60 years, with some decades being worse than others. Probably the best leadership we've had for athletics was from 2010 and its not exactly been stellar. But its light years better than Gretchen Bataille and RV hiring a high school coach because she didn't want anyone making more than the school president and the AD not even thinking twice about him bringing in mostly high school coaches to be his assistants.

Well Rick made a mistake when he brought Dodge on and allowed him to bring his staff, which was in way over their heads. However he recruited well and coach Mac won the First Responder's Bowl with those players. I think Morris is a good coach but our poor defense let both Navy and Memphis off the hook, especially the Tigers, and we could just off easily gone 7&5 instead of 5&7. I respectfully disagree with Keith regarding the players Morris inherited. We still had a terrible defense which amazingly got worst as the season went on . We were luck to get Rogers as QB from ULM.With the transfer portal and NIL programs like ours are rebuilding every year and last season was no exception. We are ranked preseason 9th in the AAC behind Rice. While most of our posters disparage UTSA, the Roadrunners have built a some what nationally recognized football program while UNT continues to be forgotten, especially by its students and the 100,000 or so zombie graduates in DFW.

Jonnyeagle · August 6

5 hours ago, wardly said:

Well Rick made a mistake when he brought Dodge on and allowed him to bring his staff, which was in way over their heads. However he recruited well and coach Mac won the First Responder's Bowl with those players. I think Morris is a good coach but our poor defense let both Navy and Memphis off the hook, especially the Tigers, and we could just off easily gone 7&5 instead of 5&7. I respectfully disagree with Keith regarding the players Morris inherited. We still had a terrible defense which amazingly got worst as the season went on . We were luck to get Rogers as QB from ULM.With the transfer portal and NIL programs like ours are rebuilding every year and last season was no exception. We are ranked preseason 9th in the AAC behind Rice. While most of our posters disparage UTSA, the Roadrunners have built a some what nationally recognized football program while UNT continues to be forgotten, especially by its students and the 100,000 or so zombie graduates in DFW.

Agree that Dodge was a monumental error but keep in mind, Rick had a fraction of the budget we sport today.

NT80 · August 6

7 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Agree that Dodge was a monumental error but keep in mind, Rick had a fraction of the budget we sport today.

RV went for the free advertising for the program. Dodge was a Texas high school coaching legend and media darling. We had LOTS of media with his hire...before he started losing. 10X more than any football HC hire since.

untjim1995 · August 6

12 hours ago, NT80 said:

RV went for the free advertising for the program. Dodge was a Texas high school coaching legend and media darling. We had LOTS of media with his hire...before he started losing. 10X more than any football HC hire since.

And Todd Dodge always reminded everyone that he was PROMISED a new stadium would get built when he took over. I think that helped get the attention of the students (UNTFlyer) that Fouts was a complete dump and had to be replaced.

I don't think Dodge was a terrible hire at the time for the reasons you listed. But he had so much arrogance about his SLC success that he thought it'd be that simple at the FBS level. Bringing in HS assistants or folks who hadn't coached in years was just a giant mistake, one that the AD should've stopped.

wardly · August 6

12 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Agree that Dodge was a monumental error but keep in mind, Rick had a fraction of the budget we sport today.

I agree, and am not blaming Rick for swinging for the fences. However to get Dodge he had to take his high school staff plus wait until high school state playoffs were completed . These were Dodge's terms for employment which in hind site [vision always 20/20]should have been rejected. However Rick was trying to jump start our program and if memory serves we had a record crowd at Dodge's first spring game. Also, I have watched UNT football since my freshman year of 1961 and Riley Dodge had more guts than any player that I have ever seen. He was undersized for a D1 program but there was no quit in him. In summary, I am a big fan of Rick. While he was AD we added our great new stadium, which was the first dedicated athletic facility UNT constructed since Fry built a 3,000 sq. ft. AD building that sits in the north parking lot adjacent to the Super Pitt. Our athletic program has always been underfunded , plus Rick went thru a handful of presidents who each had their own vision of what our athletic program should look like or had no vision at all. No, he wasn't perfect, but give him his due.

NT80 · August 6

25 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I don't think Dodge was a terrible hire at the time for the reasons you listed. But he had so much arrogance about his SLC success that he thought it'd be that simple at the FBS level. Bringing in HS assistants or folks who hadn't coached in years was just a giant mistake, one that the AD should've stopped.

Yes, this was his downfall. He claimed to have "a plan" or football playbook strategy that could transcend levels of football and be successful. Well, not so much.

I attended his first NT game at OU. Total disaster; OU had to try hard not to keep scoring on us = 79-10.

2007

[edit]

During his first season as head coach, UNT went 2–10. Dodge's spread offense averaged 408.4 total yards and 24.8 points per game while giving up 39 sacks.^[12] Dodge brought most of his original college coaching staff from the high school ranks, and the team struggled to compete against non-conference and Sun Belt foes. UNT's defensive squad, directed by Ron Mendoza, gave up an FBS-worst 45.1 points per game.^[13] Soon after the season ended, Dodge dismissed Mendoza.^[14]

Edited August 6 by NT80

untjim1995 · August 6

23 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Yes, this was his downfall. He claimed to have "a plan" or football playbook strategy that could transcend levels of football and be successful. Well, not so much.

I attended his first NT game at OU. Total disaster; OU had to try hard not to keep scoring on us = 79-10.

2007
[edit]

During his first season as head coach, UNT went 2–10. Dodge's spread offense averaged 408.4 total yards and 24.8 points per game while giving up 39 sacks.^[12] Dodge brought most of his original college coaching staff from the high school ranks, and the team struggled to compete against non-conference and Sun Belt foes. UNT's defensive squad, directed by Ron Mendoza, gave up an FBS-worst 45.1 points per game.^[13] Soon after the season ended, Dodge dismissed Mendoza.^[14]

He had a great QB in Gio Vizza, who was a strong-armed freshman. But the beating that the guy took, most of which was on the concrete turf of Fouts, just crushed him. The dude quit football entirely after that one season.

rcade · August 6

22 minutes ago, NT80 said:

I attended his first NT game at OU. Total disaster; OU had to try hard not to keep scoring on us = 79-10.

In all the years I have watched UNT football, I never saw a coach look more outmatched all the time than Todd Dodge. That first game was a sign of things to come. Allowing him to bring his high school staff along with him, instead of putting coaches with long college football experience under him to help him adjust, was a catastrophic mistake by RV.

untjim1995 · August 6

40 minutes ago, rcade said:

In all the years I have watched UNT football, I never saw a coach look more outmatched all the time than Todd Dodge. That first game was a sign of things to come. Allowing him to bring his high school staff along with him, instead of putting coaches with long college football experience under him to help him adjust, was a catastrophic mistake by RV.

The next week after the OU game, we played at SMU and lost. That was SMU's only win of the season, while we beat ULM and winless WKU for our only two wins all season. While an entertaining game, that UNT-SMU game was between two weaklings. SMU fired Phil Bennett and hired June Jones, who built SMU back up from the ash heap fairly quickly, only to eventually fall apart, too, a few years later, when a UNT blowout of SMU in Denton showed them just how bad things were and he quit.

UNTLifer · August 6

Hiring Dodge wasn't the problem. Allowing him to bring the entire HS staff was the issue.

untjim1995 · August 7

14 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Hiring Dodge wasn't the problem. Allowing him to bring the entire HS staff was the issue.

I’ll also add that keeping Dodge for a 4th year to save $275k got us 1 more win before he got fired with 5 games left in the season. If Didge didn’t get WKU on the schedule, who he beat 4x IIRC, he would’ve only won 2 games in 3.5 years. As it is, his record here was 6-37.

wardly · August 7

On 8/6/2024 at 11:54 AM, UNTLifer said:

Hiring Dodge wasn't the problem. Allowing him to bring the entire HS staff was the issue.

Agreed, but Dodge was a real jerk. I was at the same OU game NT 80 was and the Sooners played every player they had in an effort to keep the score down. The game was humiliating.

Meangreen Fight · August 8

On 7/10/2024 at 3:41 PM, NM Green said:

It’s bizarre that in all these years I’ve followed the Mean Green we’ve never hired a coach that has led us to a magical run.

What I find bizarre is that Littrel retained after a fluke home weather aided victory against a program that was born after 2000. You can't hire that magical coach if you over pay extend contracts and retain mediocre head coaches too long. We perpetually aim low when the jump to P5 coming from being a BAD I-AA/FCS program is a monumental task in the shadows of the Longhorns, Aggies, Sooners and Dallas Cowboys locally. Maybe my perception is off compared to your average college sports aware person living within the DFW area. But I don't think it is. I think if you conducted a poll of just DFW area college sports fans you would be surprised as to how many believe the leadership, and most passionate boosters aren't "all in" when it comes to winning here.

I know there is HUGE potential here. And in my opinion we should never be super excited to extend a coach that doesn't have the team ranked at the end of their 3-4 year..... But now that the dynamics with the transfer portal, and NIL has completely changed how you build a program. We are leaving an era of college football when upward mobility was easier. Leadership squandered all the PR momentum Dickey's run through the Sun Belt generated.

NT80 · August 8

26 minutes ago, Meangreen Fight said:

What I find bizarre is that Littrel retained after a fluke home weather aided victory against a program that was born after 2000. You can't hire that magical coach if you over pay extend contracts and retain mediocre head coaches too long. We perpetually aim low when the jump to P5 coming from being a BAD I-AA/FCS program is a monumental task in the shadows of the Longhorns, Aggies, Sooners and Dallas Cowboys locally.

I know there is HUGE potential here. And in my opinion we should never be super excited to extend a coach that doesn't have the team ranked at the end of their 3-4 year..... But now that the dynamics with the transfer portal, and NIL has completely changed how you build a program. We are leaving an era of college football when upward mobility was easier. Leadership squandered all the PR momentum Dickey's run through the Sun Belt generated.

I view us very similar to UCF. A large enrollment public University in a growing metro area in a dominant football state. They have similar P$ schools and NFL also in their state but manage to be their own Brand. We just haven't had that magical season, or coach, or era yet, other than Hayden Fry, to get us the media and up the hill further.

untjim1995 · August 8

8 hours ago, NT80 said:

I view us very similar to UCF. A large enrollment public University in a growing metro area in a dominant football state. They have similar P$ schools and NFL also in their state but manage to be their own Brand. We just haven't had that magical season, or coach, or era yet, other than Hayden Fry, to get us the media and up the hill further.

UCF moved up to I-A exactly one year after we did. They’ve been able to finish in the top ten, win BCS bowl games, and move up to a power conference. UCF has an entire market of a big city to themselves, sharing Orlando with a basketball team. UTSA is most like them in this regard and we have seen them zoom by us, too.

its sad, but the reality is that we just have never recovered from the nuclear decision of dropping down to I-as and staying there for 12 seasons. Even when we moved up in 1995, it was because we wanted to be able to make more money as a bought win. Today, we are looked down on by CFB fans and media, as well as our own alumni. Heck, we can’t even sellout our own 30k stadium. Our location is supposed to be this huge advantage, but for football, it’s a giant disadvantage, as we are buried behind the DFW coverage of the 4 pro teams, the P4 teams, and other sports like golf. It is what it is.

NT80 · August 8

37 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

UCF moved up to I-A exactly one year after we did. They’ve been able to finish in the top ten, win BCS bowl games, and move up to a power conference. UCF has an entire market of a big city to themselves, sharing Orlando with a basketball team. UTSA is most like them in this regard and we have seen them zoom by us, too.

UNT, as the only large public University in DFW, also has a unique market in DFW. The other two schools are small privates, with exclusive fanbases. DFW is also 4 times larger than Orlando. We could be in worse places as an FBS program.

rcade · August 8

3 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

UCF moved up to I-A exactly one year after we did. They’ve been able to finish in the top ten, win BCS bowl games, and move up to a power conference. UCF has an entire market of a big city to themselves, sharing Orlando with a basketball team.

My son goes to UCF. It does have Orlando to itself, but the main reason they fill the seats is because students turn out in huge numbers and make the Bounce House a scene. With 69,000 students and their level of fan support, UCF has the potential to become a football power as they graduate and keep supporting their school.

Cr1028 · August 8

On 8/6/2024 at 10:47 AM, untjim1995 said:

He had a great QB in Gio Vizza, who was a strong-armed freshman. But the beating that the guy took, most of which was on the concrete turf of Fouts, just crushed him. The dude quit football entirely after that one season.

Not entirely accurate. Vizza was our starter in 2007 and 2008. Riley played receiver as a true freshman in 2008 and because our starting quarterback in 2009 until he got injured. The start to the 2009 season was actually very exciting with Riley at the helm. We beat Ball State on the road and ended up losing a close overtime game to Ohio in a monsoon. Then the wheels began to fall off again. That Ohio game to this day was the biggest beatdown (weather wise) I have ever experienced, much worse than the 2021 UTSA game even though that one wasn’t pleasant.

Edited August 8 by Cr1028

wardly · August 8

5 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

UCF moved up to I-A exactly one year after we did. They’ve been able to finish in the top ten, win BCS bowl games, and move up to a power conference. UCF has an entire market of a big city to themselves, sharing Orlando with a basketball team. UTSA is most like them in this regard and we have seen them zoom by us, too.

its sad, but the reality is that we just have never recovered from the nuclear decision of dropping down to I-as and staying there for 12 seasons. Even when we moved up in 1995, it was because we wanted to be able to make more money as a bought win. Today, we are looked down on by CFB fans and media, as well as our own alumni. Heck, we can’t even sellout our own 30k stadium. Our location is supposed to be this huge advantage, but for football, it’s a giant disadvantage, as we are buried behind the DFW coverage of the 4 pro teams, the P4 teams, and other sports like golf. It is what it is.

We need to stop blaming our drop to 1AA for all our problems. There are a number of successful 1A programs , such as Boise,App.St.and Marshall, just to name a few, who had their roots in 1AA. I have said this before, when we moved to the Southland conference our choices were either 1AA or drop football. , and the coin flip could of landed either way. And you are right regarding our lack of local media coverage .SMU's move to the ACC has created a media windfall, especially in the DMN. In fact, I think that we might be better off if we were further away from DFW which could encourage more student participation. However that's a mute point. In summary, we need to look forward instead of in the rear view mirror.

untjim1995 · August 9

On 8/8/2024 at 10:29 AM, Cr1028 said:

Not entirely accurate. Vizza was our starter in 2007 and 2008. Riley played receiver as a true freshman in 2008 and because our starting quarterback in 2009 until he got injured. The start to the 2009 season was actually very exciting with Riley at the helm. We beat Ball State on the road and ended up losing a close overtime game to Ohio in a monsoon. Then the wheels began to fall off again. That Ohio game to this day was the biggest beatdown (weather wise) I have ever experienced, much worse than the 2021 UTSA game even though that one wasn’t pleasant.

Vizza was a freshman on that first Dodge team in 2007. He transferred out after it, probably knowing Rodge was gonna get to start for Dad, but also because he got beat to a pulp. He never played a down of football ever again.

greenminer · August 9

On 8/7/2024 at 6:24 PM, wardly said:

Agreed, but Dodge was a real jerk.

Mean coaches are where it's at.

Cr1028 · August 9

5 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Vizza was a freshman on that first Dodge team in 2007. He transferred out after it, probably knowing Rodge was gonna get to start for Dad, but also because he got beat to a pulp. He never played a down of football ever again.

You are absolutely wrong. I know for a fact Riley was still at Southlake in 2007 because I saw him at the OU game that year. I also know for a fact that Riley played receiver as a true freshman in 2008 while Vizza remained our starting quarterback. You may be correct about him transferring out because he expected Riley to take over in 2009, which would have been Vizza’s junior season. Or maybe it was other recreational activities that were the driver behind him moving on. Only Gio knows.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/giovanni-vizza-1/gamelog/2008/

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/riley-dodge-1/gamelog/2008/

Edited August 9 by Cr1028