If you can accept we are a minor league now

Green Otaku · July 14

2 hours ago, NT80 said:

Right here! Business major.

We have historically been a mostly teacher's college, plus music and arts majors, some business and science. We don't have the core of wealthy law, medical, and engineering alums that other university's have.

I'm a film major, yet here I am as well.

That hasn't been true for quite some time. I'll give you Law since that has been around a 10 years only, the other schools have been around for decades. The school of Business has been around since the 40s, there is no shortage of alumni that the school has produced.

The reality is people like to use this excuse without any real facts. From the numbers here, the number of graduates should closely match the size of schools. https://institutionalresearch.unt.edu/images/factbook_dair_2022-2023.pdf

Taking the graduation numbers on page 36 and 37, UNT gave out 10,946 degrees in 2022. Even if you combined the School of Liberal Arts and Music that's only 27% of students. Are you really telling me the other 73% care about athletics? Where are those other thousands of students and alumni? The reality is we have low fan engagement across the board from years of mediocrity and no sustained success.

Green Otaku · July 14

58 minutes ago, NT80 said:

UNT's Denton campus has no law school, no medical school, a minimal engineering program...and it hasn't been around for decades. I was an engineering major at another school before transferring to NTSU. No engineering for decades after I transferred.

Engineering school was founded in 2003, that's over two decades, plural. Before that other engineering programs were offered:

Quote

The College of Engineering was founded in 2003 and inherited the longstanding programs of computer science (1971) and engineering technology (1919), along with the inclusion of renamed materials science program to materials science and engineering, and a new computer engineering program (BS, MS).

I'm not going to say our school has a crazy depth of alumni like some other schools, but days of UNT being a simple teacher's college and music school have been gone for a while.

My main point is that people using the "art and music kids don't like sports" doesn't make statistical sense. Those students are outnumbered nearly 3 to 1.

UNT 90 Grad · July 14

On 7/11/2024 at 9:18 PM, Big Z said:

He had a drinking problem?

I understand he didn't have a problem drinking at all.

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wardly · July 14

7 minutes ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

I understand he didn't have a problem drinking at all.

Unfortunately he did have a real drinking problem that extended into his office.

Hunter Green · July 14

On 7/13/2024 at 6:08 PM, Green Otaku said:

If this theory were true wouldn't there be a strong core of business and other "sports loving" majors that have been fans for decades? Where are they?

We have an excellent business and engineering peograms and a medical and law school but it doesnt help that the last two are not on campus. We don't market those type students. We market to teachers, music majors, social workers and the like who don't make a lot of money and typically don't support athletics or give back to the university. Not only that, a lot of our students work their way through school and don't attend many games. It was too many years of being a commuter school and the culture, or lack thereof, it creates.

Edited July 14 by Hunter Green

UNTLifer · July 15

Want fans. Make the games an event that can’t be misssd. Market them over and over and when you don’t think you have marketed them enough, market them some more. Students must realize these are the 6 or 7 weekends out of the year they can’t go home. Incentivize them to attend and then win the damn games. You have to make it the place to be.
Partner with Denton. We are Denton’s team. Make the locals want to come. Again, a family event. Market the games like there is no tomorrow.
I am sorry, but our AD has never put forth effort.

wardly · July 15

2 hours ago, Hunter Green said:

We have an excellent business and engineering peograms and a medical and law school but it doesnt help that the last two are not on campus. We don't market those type students. We market to teachers, music majors, social workers and the like who don't make a lot of money and typically don't support athletics or give back to the university. Not only that, a lot of our students work their way through school and don't attend many games. It was too many years of being a commuter school and the culture, or lack thereof, it creates.

Sounds a lot like UTA.

Green Otaku · July 15

7 hours ago, Hunter Green said:

We have an excellent business and engineering peograms and a medical and law school but it doesnt help that the last two are not on campus. We don't market those type students. We market to teachers, music majors, social workers and the like who don't make a lot of money and typically don't support athletics or give back to the university. Not only that, a lot of our students work their way through school and don't attend many games. It was too many years of being a commuter school and the culture, or lack thereof, it creates.

No doubt that having Law and Medicine on campus would be a good boost. The school of Business has 9,000 students, and 2,012 graduates. That's not a small number. So I ask again if these majors are sure fire supporters then there should be plenty of them going to games and donating money, right? "Mattress Mack" is one of the notable UNT business alumni, does he donate to the school? The School of Business has been around for nearly 80 years, they should have plenty of donors to pull from.

Like I said the School of Liberal Arts & Social Science and the School of Music only make up 27% of the graduates, you can find the numbers in the PDF I linked above. Music is small, it only graduated 362.

Your last sentence is the real answer. UNT can't shake the commuter school stigma and struggles to get donations/fan support across the entire campus. It doesn't help that the FB team dropped to 2A, and outside of the run Dickey made there has been no sustained success. We have had no fan building momentum in 2 decades.

NM Green · July 15

But interestingly enough everyone I talk to who has transferred from another university to finish at UNT or completes an advanced degree totally loves UNT. They love the school, their program, Denton…but they don’t start there so they lack the indoctrination.

We also need to create a better Gameday culture for football and basketball and these teams need to be marketed to the region, not UNT students. There simply aren’t enough interested. But a dad with a little sports girl in Corinth might totally be wooed to a soccer, softball or basketball game up the road.

GMG

NT80 · July 15

9 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

Your last sentence is the real answer. UNT can't shake the commuter school stigma and struggles to get donations/fan support across the entire campus. It doesn't help that the FB team dropped to 2A, and outside of the run Dickey made there has been no sustained success. We have had no fan building momentum in 2 decades.

This is a false statement. That's like saying UT-Austin is a commuter school because most students commute from somewhere off campus, but in Austin. UNT gets a lot of students that reside in DFW, just because it's close. But UNT has a huge residential dorm community on campus and a ton of apartments and houses close to campus. It's not a commuter school at all like UTA, with little to no dorms on campus.

Green Otaku · July 15

29 minutes ago, NT80 said:

This is a false statement. That's like saying UT-Austin is a commuter school because most students commute from somewhere off campus, but in Austin. UNT gets a lot of students that reside in DFW, just because it's close. But UNT has a huge residential dorm community on campus and a ton of apartments and houses close to campus. It's not a commuter school at all like UTA, with little to no dorms on campus.

You do know the term isn't literal right? What I said in quotes, "commuter school stigma."

noun: stigma; plural noun: stigmas; plural noun: stigmata

1.

a mark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person.

"the stigma of having gone to prison will always be with me"

We can't get away from acting like a commuter school, not that there are literally no dorms on the campus. 45,000 students and 324,000 alumni in DFW, but we can't fill a 30k stadium?

untjim1995 · July 15

16 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Want fans. Make the games an event that can’t be misssd. Market them over and over and when you don’t think you have marketed them enough, market them some more. Students must realize these are the 6 or 7 weekends out of the year they can’t go home. Incentivize them to attend and then win the damn games. You have to make it the place to be.
Partner with Denton. We are Denton’s team. Make the locals want to come. Again, a family event. Market the games like there is no tomorrow.
I am sorry, but our AD has never put forth effort.

Maybe I've missed something over the last 34 years of being around UNT Football, but this has never once been shown to be true, to occur, or to work when tried. Denton residents either don't care about our teams or they actively loathe their existence. This isn't Lubbock or College Station where there is no other game in town and the cities' residents actually like football. This is the biggest artistic/musician town in the state that thrives on being anti-establishment.

UNTLifer · July 15

8 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Maybe I've missed something over the last 34 years of being around UNT Football, but this has never once been shown to be true, to occur, or to work when tried. Denton residents either don't care about our teams or they actively loathe their existence. This isn't Lubbock or College Station where there is no other game in town and the cities' residents actually like football. This is the biggest artistic/musician town in the state that thrives on being anti-establishment.

Then make it happen. Just another excuse.

NT80 · July 15

22 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

You do know the term isn't literal right? What I said in quotes, "commuter school stigma."

noun: stigma; plural noun: stigmas; plural noun: stigmata

1.

a mark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person.

"the stigma of having gone to prison will always be with me"

We can't get away from acting like a commuter school, not that there are literally no dorms on the campus. 45,000 students and 324,000 alumni in DFW, but we can't fill a 30k stadium?

It's not accurate regardless. Yes, we need more attendance overall at sporting events. How? Better marketing. More engagement with Denton, DFW, students and alums. It's still more campus-culture based indifference than the product. We have added better opponents in Conference but fail to schedule quality home OOC games in football and men's basketball. They are not attractive enough to fans to make them excited to attend when the football team is sub .500.

UTA is the definition of a commuter school. 41,000 students, dropped football because of poor attendance, built new $70m basketball arena, averages 1200 attendance.

NT80 · July 15

58 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Maybe I've missed something over the last 34 years of being around UNT Football, but this has never once been shown to be true, to occur, or to work when tried. Denton residents either don't care about our teams or they actively loathe their existence. This isn't Lubbock or College Station where there is no other game in town and the cities' residents actually like football. This is the biggest artistic/musician town in the state that thrives on being anti-establishment.

Yes, since the 1960's Denton has been hippie-centric. Very similar to the culture and attendance issues at Cal/Berkeley:

Slight-Ad-9029

•8mo ago

"If we are honest it’s just the modern day student body. Most people I met here do not really care about sports and if they do it’s very surface level nba or nfl. The student body in general truly could not care any less"

Also, the Denton town fathers/council didn't/don't want to promote UNT sports over fear it would somehow diminish TWU.

If we could be like Jerry Jones, we would move the school to another DFW town that would value us....

Jonnyeagle · July 15

1 minute ago, NT80 said:

Yes, since the 1960's Denton has been hippie-centric. Very similar to the culture and attendance issues at Cal/Berkeley:

Slight-Ad-9029
•8mo ago

"If we are honest it’s just the modern day student body. Most people I met here do not really care about sports and if they do it’s very surface level nba or nfl. The student body in general truly could not care any less"

Also, the Denton town fathers/council didn't/don't want to promote UNT sports over fear it would somehow diminish TWU.

If we could be like Jerry Jones, we would move the school to another DFW town that would value us....

That's part of why you hear Denton is the new Austin or whatnot.

Censored by Laurie · July 15

On 7/13/2024 at 3:58 PM, Venson said:

Another way is maybe stop recruiting so many Liberal Arts majors. Not to offend anyone, but you do not find too many sports fans amongst Art, Music, Dance etc. majors. Also, maybe we should get away from all these commercials that scream nerd and we want people with no drive. Maybe add in a little more sports clips with the students having fun at all sporting events. All this is just my opinion.

have you ever stopped for a moment to consider that maybe you're the outsider, the outlier...the nerd...at your alma mater and that A&M or Tech or Texas State were always available options for you if you just wanted to integrate into a more homogenous cultural experience?

NorthTexasWeLove · July 15

18 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Want fans. Make the games an event that can’t be misssd. Market them over and over and when you don’t think you have marketed them enough, market them some more. Students must realize these are the 6 or 7 weekends out of the year they can’t go home. Incentivize them to attend and then win the damn games. You have to make it the place to be.
Partner with Denton. We are Denton’s team. Make the locals want to come. Again, a family event. Market the games like there is no tomorrow.
I am sorry, but our AD has never put forth effort.

You'd think.

But we have had ADs, basically the 3 that we've had since I've been a student/alum, that do not consistently market. Rather, they openly state, "OK, THIS is the game we need to ramp up our efforts."

Every game in every season is the next opportunity to ramp up every effort and use every tool.

At every level, we are who they say we are.

NorthTexasWeLove · July 15

22 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

have you ever stopped for a moment to consider that maybe you're the outsider, the outlier...the nerd...at your alma mater and that A&M or Tech or Texas State were always available options for you if you just wanted to integrate into a more homogenous cultural experience?

Have you ever stopped for a moment to consider that your every response doesn't have to be riddled with condescending condemnation?

Waldo turned this university into a swinging gate of low level students, hence the drop in entry requirements paired with spike in enrollment. Then, he bolts. Questioning that is very far from wrong.

Censored by Laurie · July 15

1 minute ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Have you ever stopped for a moment to consider that your every response doesn't have to be riddled with condescending condemnation?

if someday people stopped posting things in need of condescending condemnation...like this...I'd consider it.

Green Otaku · July 15

2 hours ago, NT80 said:

It's not accurate regardless. Yes, we need more attendance overall at sporting events. How? Better marketing. More engagement with Denton, DFW, students and alums. It's still more campus-culture based indifference than the product. We have added better opponents in Conference but fail to schedule quality home OOC games in football and men's basketball. They are not attractive enough to fans to make them excited to attend when the football team is sub .500.

UTA is the definition of a commuter school. 41,000 students, dropped football because of poor attendance, built new $70m basketball arena, averages 1200 attendance.

We are punching bellow our weight with the amount of students and alumni we have.

Agreed on the marketing, the other thing is people need to have something to cheer for. People don't turn out because the reputation of the football team is poor, but when they did have something good we did see fans show up. I think back to the LA Tech game under Littrell, it was the first time I genuinely thought there was a positive buzz around the team, then we took that momentum and rammed it into the ground, and never recovered. We need multiple years of that kind of success to make people change their attitudes about FB.

HoustonEagle · July 15

Can I sum this thread up? We don’t have the money. Frankly I don't think we ever will. Please prove me wrong.

At one point I tried to be part of the solution. I actively donated to the new stadium. I got my club seats. I attended fundraisers seeking large donors.

I had a dream of us eventually being big time. While I certainly could not be the big time donor we needed I felt like it was my responsibility to do what I could. So for years I engaged, helped, donated.

Sadly, I realized just how far behind we truly are in the money race. It was very disheartening. While UNT has great alumni that I truly appreciate getting to know. We have no mega donors and very few large donors. We have come a long way but we are still so far behind. Hopefully someone here can be that donor they need.

Cr1028 · July 16

None of this matters until we win. If you get people out to the game just to watch us get our teeth kicked in, you have accomplished nothing and possibly have done more harm than good by turning that person off to us rather than them previously being indifferent. We need someone that can win long term in Denton. Eric Morris is not that dude.

GrandGreen · July 16

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

None of this matters until we win. If you get people out to the game just to watch us get our teeth kicked in, you have accomplished nothing and possibly have done more harm than good by turning that person off to us rather than them previously being indifferent. We need someone that can win long term in Denton. Eric Morris is not that dude.

Damn, you must be a football genius to have determined Morris's faith at NT after one single year.

I think Morris accomplished a lot of the offensive side in one year, and I look forward to a continuation of that and am hopeful that many of the defensive issues will be positively addressed.

Just for grins, who do you think NT should have hired that would have a better change of success?