The Athletic on DFW Football recruiting

[SMU2006]

Just now, untjim1995 said:

Because G5 players aren't leaving because they are buried on the depth chart and can get playing time at some P4, they are leaving because they can play at this level and the P4 schools know they can buy them away easily.

Y'all will use your money, just like y'all always do, to buy players away from G5s now that you're in the ACC. Before, you could take advantage of Power kids transferring to you for playing time and money against G5s. Now, you'll switch this up and raid Denton, San Antonio, Ruston, Tulsa, etc...

That's just not worth my time or money. I got better things to do. If others feel differently, that's awesome. But that's 180 degrees away from the college sports I enjoyed as a young man and adult. 

The only thing that is constant is change.  I can understand yearning for the days of yesteryear but why not take advantage of the current system?  Access to the playoff is there.  Proximity to quality recruiting and local transfers via the portal is there.  The programs that should be terrified are UTEP, LA Tech, Ark State, Wyoming, etc. where you are geographically isolated and objectively poor.  UNT is neither of those things at the G5 level.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, SMU2006 said:

The only thing that is constant is change.  I can understand yearning for the days of yesteryear but why not take advantage of the current system?  Access to the playoff is there.  Proximity to quality recruiting and local transfers via the portal is there.  The programs that should be terrified are UTEP, LA Tech, Ark State, Wyoming, etc. where you are geographically isolated and objectively poor.  UNT is neither of those things at the G5 level.

Please understand that our geographic location has never changed. Also understand that our recruiting has always lagged, even behind a few schools you mention. A lot of our facilities have been better or on par to our peers for over a decade. And there has not been a net positive. We spent millions of dollars in a pretty nice IPF. What has that gotten us from a recruiting or performance standpoint? Now, add in the portal and NIL. Psh. I love your optimism for us. It's weird. it's not really warranted, but I like it. 

[SMU2006]

1 minute ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Please understand that our geographic location has never changed. Also understand that our recruiting has always lagged, even behind a few schools you mention. A lot of our facilities have been better or on par to our peers for over a decade. And there has not been a net positive. We spent millions of dollars in a pretty nice IPF. What has that gotten us from a recruiting or performance standpoint? Now, add in the portal and NIL. Psh. I love your optimism for us. It's weird. it's not really warranted, but I like it. 

That's the attitude of someone resigned to defeat.  UNT is in a better location and I'm certain has deeper pockets than UTSA.  You don't see UTSA using excuses of why they can't be successful despite some pretty clear limitations.  Allowing the past to determine your future is silly to me.  Find the right mix of people who capitalize on the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses.  UTSA did it.  Don't tell me UNT can't.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, SMU2006 said:

That's the attitude of someone resigned to defeat.  UNT is in a better location and I'm certain has deeper pockets than UTSA.  You don't see UTSA using excuses of why they can't be successful despite some pretty clear limitations.  Allowing the past to determine your future is silly to me.  Find the right mix of people who capitalize on the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses.  UTSA did it.  Don't tell me UNT can't.

UTSA has a better location than us given the fact they are the only football brand in a very large city. They pull better for their games when they are bad than we do when we are good. They have more donors than we do. They celebrate their accomplishments on the boardwalk with thousands of people. We celebrate ours on Twitter as our coaches depart. 

[UNTLifer]

55 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

I don't understand all the hand wringing.  I think UNT is positioned about as well as anyone in the G5 to consistently contend for the at-large playoff spot.  Its undeniable that access to the playoff is at a level never seen before at the G5 level.  Financially there shouldn't be many G5's that will outspend UNT (if the collective has its sh*t together).  There is more premium talent in the portal from the DFW area than you can shake a stick at.  There are only so many places those prospects can go.  Why not UNT?

Use the system to your advantage.  Go poach some talent in the portal that would've never considered UNT out of high school.  Its how you build depth and increase competition.  It can also be done at a relatively low cost for certain positions.  

The doom and gloom is misplaced (for now).  I do, however, think there will be an eventual break away by the P4 but that is years away.  

I don't understand why you are here.

Your university, as much, or more, than any other university, has contributed to the current situation and I will laugh when you all end up in the same boat as the rest because you won't be part of the "have's" when the break occurs. To the UT's, Bama's, Ohio State's, and Michigan's of the world, you all are just the snotty nosed kid with rich parents that is fun to bring along because you will pay for crap nobody else wants to.

[UNTLifer]

49 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It's not really doom and gloom. It's a pattern of behavior that has led to a pattern of results. We are cash poor, we spend average money, our collective is in the bottom third of our own peers, and we are perceptually a weird, liberal arts college (some truth to that). The Why not North Texas mantra has been ran through by coaches, players, administrators, and alum. There is a list of reasons as to why not North Texas. I don't want it to be this way. I don't like it. But it just is. 

Denton is a much a problem as the university.  The want so much to be "little Austin" and embrace the weird, hippy culture which includes being critical of spending on athletics, doing away with the HC parade because it isn't "sustainable", the constant bickering over the evolution of Fry Street from a hippy/drug user hangout of the 60's with buildings painted with murals, etc. to what it is today, citizens complaining about the university developing the golf course property into an athletics' focused area and the citizens being so short sighted as to not supporting the school and its teams because it isn't cool. They fight UNT at every turn when a partnership would have greatly benefitted both.  UNT has forever been the "organization" that drove the tax revenue in Denton, but the citizens continued to bite the hand that feeds it.

[UNTLifer]

38 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

Its still Memphis.  There are infinitely more talented prospects within 100 mile radius of UNT than in the entire state of TN.  Memphis is a straw man argument.

That's like saying Alabama is still Alabama stuck in Tuscaloosa.  There was and is zero value placed in the education these kids receive, the free housing, meals, tutoring, healthcare, etc... when less than 5% will earn money in professional sports once they are done in college.  99% of these  young men and women should be picking a school that has the major of their choosing and that has a track record of preparing them for their life after sports.  Too many people are telling these kids to get all the money they can right now with zero thought about their education and the life lessons that should be being taught at this time.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

7 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Denton is a much a problem as the university.  The want so much to be "little Austin" and embrace the weird, hippy culture which includes being critical of spending on athletics, doing away with the HC parade because it isn't "sustainable", the constant bickering over the evolution of Fry Street from a hippy/drug user hangout of the 60's with buildings painted with murals, etc. to what it is today, citizens complaining about the university developing the golf course property into an athletics' focused area and the citizens being so short sighted as to not supporting the school and its teams because it isn't cool. They fight UNT at every turn when a partnership would have greatly benefitted both.  UNT has forever been the "organization" that drove the tax revenue in Denton, but the citizens continued to bite the hand that feeds it.

You're spot on. But the university has been playing into that hippy weird BS for a long time, too. 

And we can bring demographics into this, too. And for good or bad, I don't know; nor do I really care. But conservative white boys/men is the driving force behind the consumption of and donating base to collegiate athletics. The university goes out of its way to diversify the enrollment. Which is fine and all, but it's just another variable pulling away from athletics. And there seems to be a lot of variables, controllable and uncontrollable. Why do you think the SEC can whip whoever they want with money at a moments notice? Answer: White conservative men throwing money at their collectives and scholarship funds. 

[SMU2006]

21 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I don't understand why you are here.

Your university, as much, or more, than any other university, has contributed to the current situation and I will laugh when you all end up in the same boat as the rest because you won't be part of the "have's" when the break occurs. To the UT's, Bama's, Ohio State's, and Michigan's of the world, you all are just the snotty nosed kid with rich parents that is fun to bring along because you will pay for crap nobody else wants to.

LOL.  SMU is small potatoes in why college athletics is in its current state.  You really think SMU was even the most egregious cheater in the 80's halcyon days?  Get real.  Paying players is as old as the game itself.  What has changed in the last 10-15 years is the amplification of money via social media as well as TV contracts that have ballooned raising everything from coaches salaries to facilities to yes.....NIL.  

Blaming SMU for anything to do with where things are headed in college athletics is beyond stupid.  Everything that's being done now is being directed by the TV suits.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  You're letting hatred blind you.

[SMU2006]

36 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

UTSA has a better location than us given the fact they are the only football brand in a very large city. They pull better for their games when they are bad than we do when we are good. They have more donors than we do. They celebrate their accomplishments on the boardwalk with thousands of people. We celebrate ours on Twitter as our coaches depart. 

UTSA absolutely does not have a better location.  SA is not a great area for HS football talent and they do not have deep NIL pockets.  They are maximizing their value and holding the programs to a high standard.  Good for them.  But if you poll the vast majority of G5 coaches/administrators on which program has a better foundation I'd argue most would lean towards UNT.

[SMU2006]

11 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

That's like saying Alabama is still Alabama stuck in Tuscaloosa.  There was and is zero value placed in the education these kids receive, the free housing, meals, tutoring, healthcare, etc... when less than 5% will earn money in professional sports once they are done in college.  99% of these  young men and women should be picking a school that has the major of their choosing and that has a track record of preparing them for their life after sports.  Too many people are telling these kids to get all the money they can right now with zero thought about their education and the life lessons that should be being taught at this time.

Its a different story when you are comparing blue blood programs.  Alabama can recruit anyone from anywhere.  Memphis can't (and still won't despite a fairly impressive NIL commitment).

[UNTLifer]

53 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

Sorry I'm not buying that.  UNT can and should be among the upper tier of G5 programs.  Location alone gives you a huge advantage.  Facilities are among the top half of G5.  Coaches are being compensated at or near the top of the AAC.  The foundation is there.

NIL, for better or worse, is the new coin of the realm (along with the portal).  It can be done.  I'd rather have the resources at UNT as opposed to nearly all other G5's.  

I believe this, but it would take the city getting involved and the AD giving two shits about the future of this program.  All they do is ask the alumni to give and give more.  What is my ROI?  Watching Edwards and Nolan show up for a year and then move along?  I would rather give that money to a scholarship my family established at North Texas to provide for current students and young men and women that are preparing for their future.

UNT has wasted opportunity after opportunity to move up.  They own valuable I35 real estate that millions of vehicles pass daily.  Any naming rights sold for those facilities?  Memphis has the FedEx Forum.  Why not the Peterbilt Super Pit with signage along the roof of the building?  

[NorthTexasWeLove]

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I believe this, but it would take the city getting involved and the AD giving two shits about the future of this program.  All they do is ask the alumni to give and give more.  What is my ROI?  Watching Edwards and Nolan show up for a year and then move along?  I would rather give that money to a scholarship my family established at North Texas to provide for current students and young men and women that are preparing for their future.

UNT has wasted opportunity after opportunity to move up.  They own valuable I35 real estate that millions of vehicles pass daily.  Any naming rights sold for those facilities?  Memphis has the FedEx Forum.  Why not the Peterbilt Super Pit with signage along the roof of the building?  

Because that takes legwork and forward thinking. Let's not be silly. 

I started paying attention to UNT in 2011. Got plugged in around 2012, and started to pay very closer attention in late 12/ early 2013. The athletic department has done nothing but prove its a good ole boy system filled with self serving people from top to bottom. 

I said it a few days ago, but the University has to look into the hiring processes and the hiring of North Texas people must be the next step. Put a lighter on the do nothing leeches and get people in there that care more about the success of North Texas than they do about the success of themselves. 

[UNTLifer]

20 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

You're spot on. But the university has been playing into that hippy weird BS for a long time, too. 

And we can bring demographics into this, too. And for good or bad, I don't know; nor do I really care. But conservative white boys/men is the driving force behind the consumption of and donating base to collegiate athletics. The university goes out of its way to diversify the enrollment. Which is fine and all, but it's just another variable pulling away from athletics. And there seems to be a lot of variables, controllable and uncontrollable. Why do you think the SEC can whip whoever they want with money at a moments notice? Answer: White conservative men throwing money at their collectives and scholarship funds. 

Yep.  About the only thing NT and Denton have successfully partnered on.

 

20 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

LOL.  SMU is small potatoes in why college athletics is in its current state.  You really think SMU was even the most egregious cheater in the 80's halcyon days?  Get real.  Paying players is as old as the game itself.  What has changed in the last 10-15 years is the amplification of money via social media as well as TV contracts that have ballooned raising everything from coaches salaries to facilities to yes.....NIL.  

Blaming SMU for anything to do with where things are headed in college athletics is beyond stupid.  Everything that's being done now is being directed by the TV suits.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  You're letting hatred blind you.

Missed my point.  The NIL was created to allow players to earn money off of their "Name, Image and Likeness".  Schools, smuT comes to mind, decided to bend the rules and create collectives to essentially pay kids a salary for being on the roster.  Had nothing at all to do with NIL.  The NCAA got scared of being sued and drop the ball and set this up with zero oversight.  

The change, to me, is this.  I support UNT because it is my school.  I liked watching kids like Scott Hall, Johnny Quinn, Patrick Cobbs, etc. sign with NT, fall in love with playing here, work hard, develop over their four years, honor them on Senior Day and become Hall of Famers.  That is gone.  Today's kids are loyal to the money and don't give a damn about NT.

[UNTLifer]

2 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Because that takes legwork and forward thinking. Let's not be silly. 

I started paying attention to UNT in 2011. Got plugged in around 2012, and started to pay very closer attention in late 12/ early 2013. The athletic department has done nothing but prove its a good ole boy system filled with self serving people from top to bottom. 

I said it a few days ago, but the University has to look into the hiring processes and the hiring of North Texas people must be the next step. Put a lighter on the do nothing leeches and get people in there that care more about the success of North Texas than they do about the success of themselves. 

Spot on.

[SMU2006]

16 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Yep.  About the only thing NT and Denton have successfully partnered on.

 

Missed my point.  The NIL was created to allow players to earn money off of their "Name, Image and Likeness".  Schools, smuT comes to mind, decided to bend the rules and create collectives to essentially pay kids a salary for being on the roster.  Had nothing at all to do with NIL.  The NCAA got scared of being sued and drop the ball and set this up with zero oversight.  

The change, to me, is this.  I support UNT because it is my school.  I liked watching kids like Scott Hall, Johnny Quinn, Patrick Cobbs, etc. sign with NT, fall in love with playing here, work hard, develop over their four years, honor them on Senior Day and become Hall of Famers.  That is gone.  Today's kids are loyal to the money and don't give a damn about NT.

Would you be loyal to your employer if a competitor came along and offered to 3x your salary?  And SMU was not even one of the first to put together a Collective so again the incessant hate is irrational and misguided.

Edited April 19 by SMU2006

[UNTLifer]

4 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

Would you be loyal to your employer if a competitor came along and offered to 3x your salary?  And SMU was not even one of the first to put together a Collective so again the incessant hate is irrational and misguided.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

3 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

Would you be loyal to your employer if a competitor came along and offered to 3x your salary?  And SMU was not even one of the first to put together a Collective so again the incessant hate is irrational and misguided.

That's generally dependent upon my happiness. If I really like where I am at then I would see if my current employer would try to come close. If they could get somewhat close, I would stay. But I would at least give my employer the opportunity to match given my happiness level. What I would not do is jump on it with zero to minimal communication and thank god on twitter. 

[SMU2006]

28 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

That's generally dependent upon my happiness. If I really like where I am at then I would see if my current employer would try to come close. If they could get somewhat close, I would stay. But I would at least give my employer the opportunity to match given my happiness level. What I would not do is jump on it with zero to minimal communication and thank god on twitter. 

You are the exception to the rule.  No judgment here but for 99% of people if they can 3x their income they are absolutely going to do it.  Most younger folks in my profession will jump at even marginal increases.  Some of these kids are not going to be playing professional football so if they can get a free education and pocket 100-300k with their degree then they are absolutely entitled and should be encouraged to do so.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

31 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

You are the exception to the rule.  No judgment here but for 99% of people if they can 3x their income they are absolutely going to do it.  Most younger folks in my profession will jump at even marginal increases.  Some of these kids are not going to be playing professional football so if they can get a free education and pocket 100-300k with their degree then they are absolutely entitled and should be encouraged to do so.

Oh, make no mistake, if my current employer can't get close then I am gone. 

[GRN-WHT]

2 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

And we can bring demographics into this, too. And for good or bad, I don't know; nor do I really care. But conservative white boys/men is the driving force behind the consumption of and donating base to collegiate athletics. The university goes out of its way to diversify the enrollment. Which is fine and all, but it's just another variable pulling away from athletics. And there seems to be a lot of variables, controllable and uncontrollable. Why do you think the SEC can whip whoever they want with money at a moments notice? Answer: White conservative men throwing money at their collectives and scholarship funds. 

Ding. Ding. Ding. 
 

The demographic most tied to athletic funding is the demographic most underrepresented and actively discouraged from attending UNT. 
 

Take a walk around campus at UNT and take a walk around pretty much any P5 school. It’s 2 different worlds. This is exactly why I say things won’t change until we change the profile of the student this school attracts. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

19 minutes ago, GRN-WHT said:

Ding. Ding. Ding. 
 

The demographic most tied to athletic funding is the demographic most underrepresented and actively discouraged from attending UNT. 
 

Take a walk around campus at UNT and take a walk around pretty much any P5 school. It’s 2 different worlds. This is exactly why I say things won’t change until we change the profile of the student this school attracts. 

I don't think it's about the type of student we attract. It's the type of student that UNT is hellbent on admitting. Which over the years has created a social ecosystem of saturated diversity due to students looking for this environment and then learning/knowing that it exists here. To add, 41% of our undergrads are 1st gen college students. That's great. It really is. But what kind of dumbing down did we have to do to allow that particular number? Or did that many students happen to be that much smarter and ambitious in comparison to the previous generations of family members? That's a gigantic number. 41% white at UNT. While the US is 70% (61%, pending on which stat you use) white. The state of Texas is roughly 65% white. All the while almost 20% of UNT's enrollment is unknown, biracial or Asian. +6% female student enrollment. 14% of our entire enrollment is over 25 years old. That's around 6k students. Those are not young people trying to attach themselves to a sense of community. Those are working adults just trying to get a piece of paper. There are giant swaths of our enrollment that historically care very little about athletics and that doesn't even include degree plan/personal interest type people.  Smastrek loves pushing his achievement of growth, but he's been here checking every single progressive box there is to check. Ultimately, all these stats will do is 100% negate athletic support. The 41% number of first gen students is staggering, and jumps out larger than anything else. And that number doesn't mean much to athletic support, but it devalues all of our degrees whether you admit it or not. 

 

[DentonStang]

4 hours ago, SMU2006 said:

Its still Memphis.  There are infinitely more talented prospects within 100 mile radius of UNT than in the entire state of TN.  Memphis is a straw man argument.

They're stuck in their box of woe, which I understand.  But they're still wrong and not looking at data.

UNT should be cleaning up on players moving down for playing time, just like Dykes did at SMU, just like top G5's do.  It's right there. 

[Matt from A700]

4 hours ago, SMU2006 said:

That's the attitude of someone resigned to defeat.  UNT is in a better location and I'm certain has deeper pockets than UTSA.  You don't see UTSA using excuses of why they can't be successful despite some pretty clear limitations.  Allowing the past to determine your future is silly to me.  Find the right mix of people who capitalize on the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses.  UTSA did it.  Don't tell me UNT can't.

 

Edited April 19 by Matt from A700

[Aquila_Viridis]

Oh boo hoo. Who cares?? 32 teams will become so beholden to sports money that they turn into crap institutions that turn out gobs of crap people. Oh wait that already happened.  We will have sports teams. Support them in whatever way you can. North Texas saved my life. I'd sort of like for it to retain a soul.