The Athletic on DFW Football recruiting

greenminer · April 20

On 4/19/2024 at 3:31 PM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

41% of our undergrads are 1st gen college students.

OT, but how does this percentage remain so high? Graduating college has been pushed so freaking hard, going back to the Boomers, that you would think this number would be much less than 20%.

20+ years ago, when I was finishing HS, it was the de-facto, this-is-just-what-you-do endeavor. And I was not even a Boomer. So how are we still seeing so many first gen college graduates?

Edited April 22 by greenminer

untphd · April 20

national data fact sheet

https://firstgen.naspa.org/journal-and-research/national-data-fact-sheets-on-first-generation-college-students-and-graduates/8677883E-2726-41DE-8299D50432527DF4#:~:text=As of 2020%2C 54 percent,not have a bachelor's degree.

untjim1995 · April 20

22 hours ago, DentonStang said:

They're stuck in their box of woe, which I understand. But they're still wrong and not looking at data.

UNT should be cleaning up on players moving down for playing time, just like Dykes did at SMU, just like top G5's do. It's right there.

Exactly how are they suppose to “clean up”? With our massive NIL? With our incredible following? Because of our incredible success?

You get talented players by offering them money, playing time, visibility, and success. We have very little money, lots of playing time, visibility is what it is here, and almost zero success in 45 years that anyone beyond the diehards know about.

untjim1995 · April 20

4 hours ago, greenminer said:

OT, but how does this percentage still so high? Graduating college has been pushed so freaking hard, going back to the Boomers, that you would think this number would be much less than 20%.

20+ years ago, when I was finishing HS, it was the de-facto, this-is-just-what-you-do endeavor. And I was not even a Boomer. So how are we still seeing so many first gen college graduates?

Our location and affordability is awesome for first gen students…and a lot of our student body are working to pay their way thru UNT. Add in a metro area that is now the 4th largest media market in the country, due to all of the folks who have moved here and it’s pretty easy to see.

DentonStang · April 23

On 4/20/2024 at 2:00 PM, untjim1995 said:

Exactly how are they suppose to “clean up”? With our massive NIL? With our incredible following? Because of our incredible success?

You get talented players by offering them money, playing time, visibility, and success. We have very little money, lots of playing time, visibility is what it is here, and almost zero success in 45 years that anyone beyond the diehards know about.

You have a billion alumni. You don't need mega donors like we do to play the game at the AAC level.

$1,000,000 would make a massive impact. That $100 from 10,000 alumni. That's doable. You can't even take a family of four out to a decent restaurant for that much.

Or $50/month from just 1600 people.

Find players looking to move up or down and sell them on coming back local to DFW so momma can watch him play. Give him some basic NIL. That's all you need.

Edited April 23 by DentonStang

NorthTexasWeLove · April 23

30 minutes ago, DentonStang said:

You have a billion alumni. You don't need mega donors like we do to play the game at the AAC level.

$1,000,000 would make a massive impact. That $100 from 10,000 alumni. That's doable. You can't even take a family of four out to a decent restaurant for that much.

Or $50/month from just 1600 people.

Find players looking to move up or down and sell them on coming back local to DFW so momma can watch him play. Give him some basic NIL. That's all you need.

10,000 UNT alum donating to athletics...

laughter laughing GIF

dodgefan · April 23

You've got two SMU guy's, working their asses off in this thread, trying to encourage us to quit mopping and get busy. Things must be really bad over here, but, I for one, appreciate your effort.

Green Otaku · April 23

4 hours ago, dodgefan said:

You've got two SMU guy's, working their asses off in this thread, trying to encourage us to quit mopping and get busy. Things must be really bad over here, but, I for one, appreciate your effort.

It's like some bizzaro world I'd thought I'd never see. 😂

Edited April 23 by Green Otaku

SMU2006 · April 23

6 hours ago, dodgefan said:

You've got two SMU guy's, working their asses off in this thread, trying to encourage us to quit mopping and get busy. Things must be really bad over here, but, I for one, appreciate your effort.

I just don't see how the general consensus is that UNT cannot compete at a high level under the current system. Who in the AAC has a better combination of location, facilities, financial infrastructure, etc.? You could maybe argue Tulane and Memphis. That's it. UNT should be cleaning up in the portal with guys from DFW looking to finish out their career and/or get more PT. That's how you build a competitive advantage over schools like UTSA, Rice, Tulsa, UAB, FAU, etc.

And as Denton aptly stated you've got hundreds of thousands of living alums in DFW. You can't find a few thousand to donate $100? Maybe one less trip to Applebee's or Olive Garden and you'd have a roster than can compete at the top of the G5.

untjim1995 · April 23

2 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

I just don't see how the general consensus is that UNT cannot compete at a high level under the current system. Who in the AAC has a better combination of location, facilities, financial infrastructure, etc.? You could maybe argue Tulane and Memphis. That's it. UNT should be cleaning up in the portal with guys from DFW looking to finish out their career and/or get more PT. That's how you build a competitive advantage over schools like UTSA, Rice, Tulsa, UAB, FAU, etc.

And as Denton aptly stated you've got hundreds of thousands of living alums in DFW. You can't find a few thousand to donate $100? Maybe one less trip to Applebee's or Olive Garden and you'd have a roster than can compete at the top of the G5.

But that's the problem. We don't have those alumni that care about anything up here. Athletics or music or arts. Denton is a weird town for sure. I think we have like the third lowest alumni giving in the conference. But you cannot make people care about something that they don't want to care about. The entire city of Denton, the faculty and administration at UNT, the alumni, and the majority of the student body here have either been completely apathetic to sports or they actively loathe its existence. Its how a school with 40k in enrollment, 250k in living alumni, and being surrounded by millions of people in DFW can draw an average of about 15k in attendance for football.

So yeah, that's not nearly as simple as you want to make it out to be. Its the opposite of you guys, where you have very small numbers for everything except cash on hand. And y'all have a media that still acts sympathetic to your Death Penalty and will carry your water for you. We don't have anything like this. Hell, most DFW media barely cares that we exist, too.

SMU2006 · April 23

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

But that's the problem. We don't have those alumni that care about anything up here. Athletics or music or arts. Denton is a weird town for sure. I think we have like the third lowest alumni giving in the conference. But you cannot make people care about something that they don't want to care about. The entire city of Denton, the faculty and administration at UNT, the alumni, and the majority of the student body here have either been completely apathetic to sports or they actively loathe its existence. Its how a school with 40k in enrollment, 250k in living alumni, and being surrounded by millions of people in DFW can draw an average of about 15k in attendance for football.

So yeah, that's not nearly as simple as you want to make it out to be. Its the opposite of you guys, where you have very small numbers for everything except cash on hand. And y'all have a media that still acts sympathetic to your Death Penalty and will carry your water for you. We don't have anything like this. Hell, most DFW media barely cares that we exist, too.

Sympathetic to the death penalty? Maybe it was the most egregious and unjustified penalty ever handed down to a university while literally everyone else in the SWC was doing the same or worse at the time. Did it do anything to curtail cheating or paying players? No. All it did was nuke SMU to the stone age and put the nail in the coffin of the SWC.

Even the NCAA has admitted they had no idea just how devastating it would be to SMU. The NCAA lead on infractions thought it would maybe 5 years for SMU to recover. It took 30 years to get back to even being remotely competitive in football. Zero chance the same punishment would've been handed down to Texas, OU, Bama, UGA, etc. no matter what they did. The death penalty was a joke in 1987 and looks hilarious given where college athletics is now.

untjim1995 · April 23

1 minute ago, SMU2006 said:

Sympathetic to the death penalty? Maybe it was the most egregious and unjustified penalty ever handed down to a university while literally everyone else in the SWC was doing the same or worse at the time. Did it do anything to curtail cheating or paying players? No. All it did was nuke SMU to the stone age and put the nail in the coffin of the SWC.

Even the NCAA has admitted they had no idea just how devastating it would be to SMU. The NCAA lead on infractions thought it would maybe 5 years for SMU to recover. It took 30 years to get back to even being remotely competitive in football. Zero chance the same punishment would've been handed down to Texas, OU, Bama, UGA, etc. no matter what they did. The death penalty was a joke in 1987 and looks hilarious given where college athletics is now.

Oh, listen, I cannot believe yall haven't sued the NCAA of billions of dollars. For back pay for killing your program. Yall just laid the groundwork for how painful a Death Penalty is to a program, so fine upstanding programs like Baylor, who saw players rape and kill people, as well as Penn State. who looked the other way at pedophilia in their own facilities by coaches, never got a deserved death penalty. But I will also say that nobody else had a payroll that involved the governor of a state to keep this all under wraps. Yall made it an artform...

MeanGreenTexan · April 23

8 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Oh, listen, I cannot believe yall haven't sued the NCAA of billions of dollars. For back pay for killing your program. Yall just laid the groundwork for how painful a Death Penalty is to a program, so fine upstanding programs like Baylor, who saw players rape and kill people, as well as Penn State. who looked the other way at pedophilia in their own facilities by coaches, never got a deserved death penalty. But I will also say that nobody else had a payroll that involved the governor of a state to keep this all under wraps. Yall made it an artform...

With all of the L's the NCAA is taking lately when they're challenged in courts... they'd likely win.

SMU2006 · April 23

24 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Oh, listen, I cannot believe yall haven't sued the NCAA of billions of dollars. For back pay for killing your program. Yall just laid the groundwork for how painful a Death Penalty is to a program, so fine upstanding programs like Baylor, who saw players rape and kill people, as well as Penn State. who looked the other way at pedophilia in their own facilities by coaches, never got a deserved death penalty. But I will also say that nobody else had a payroll that involved the governor of a state to keep this all under wraps. Yall made it an artform...

SMU was not even the most egregious cheater in the SWC in the 80's. The governor aspect made it more salacious but as far as being "an artform" all the boosters in the SWC did the same shenanigans. They called it internally as the OPEC Conference. B/c that's where the price of players was set. Everyone knew what was going on and everyone was turning each other in for doing exactly what they were doing themselves. Truly the wild west.

Edited April 23 by SMU2006

SilverEagle · April 24

22 hours ago, SMU2006 said:

SMU was not even the most egregious cheater in the SWC in the 80's. The governor aspect made it more salacious but as far as being "an artform" all the boosters in the SWC did the same shenanigans. They called it internally as the OPEC Conference. B/c that's where the price of players was set. Everyone knew what was going on and everyone was turning each other in for doing exactly what they were doing themselves. Truly the wild west.

Let's all keep in mind that the "death penalty" was not administered because of an isolated incident involving David Stanley. Stanley represented the latest in multiple violations stretching out over both the Meyers tenure there and culminating with the big investigation of the Collins coaching violations that were investigated by WFAA (God love'em).

I agree that based on what happened to SMU, other SWC schools should have been hit as well. One story that I heard, (and hope that it is true), was how Eric Dickerson drove to Dallas to sign his letter of intent, in a firebird that was purchased for him by an A$M fan. The NCAA could have gotten a 2-fer on that one.

Anyway, no SMU alum would ever seek any sort of sympathy from me regarding their death penalty debacle/mistreatment. But if they did, I would suggest that they could find sympathy in the dictionary....... it's somewhere between shit and syphilis.

Now, let me give the devil it's due......somewhat. We have blamed SMU for mishaps and/or misdeeds visited on us for the last 50 years or so. But from 1961 until 1988 we have attempted on more than one occasion to change our name to its current one....UNT. For those not familiar with NT history, our status change from College to University took place in 1960, which necessitated an official name change. We had to petition the legislature for their approval, and our first choice was UNT. The bill passed easily through the house but met strong opposition from several senators who threatened to filibuster the bill as written. We had to have a name change so we compromised on NTSU. We tried a couple of more times after that, but were thwarted again. Finally, we went at it again in 1988 and it still almost didn't go through because of some "procedural" roadblocks. But those were overcome at the last minute and the bill was signed by the Govenor. The people involved in all of the threatened filibustering, and road blocking all those years between 1961 and 1988 were UT grads.

The bill was signed by Bill (SMU grad) Clements.

Edited April 24 by SilverEagle

SMU2006 · April 24

36 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

Let's all keep in mind that the "death penalty" was not administered because of an isolated incident involving David Stanley. Stanley represented the latest in multiple violations stretching out over both the Meyers tenure there and culminating with the big investigation of the Collins coaching violations that were investigated by WFAA (God love'em).

I agree that based on what happened to SMU, other SWC schools should have been hit as well. One story that I heard, (and hope that it is true), was how Eric Dickerson drove to Dallas to sign his letter of intent, in a firebird that was purchased for him by an A$M fan. The NCAA could have gotten a 2-fer on that one.

Anyway, no SMU alum would ever seek any sort of sympathy from me regarding their death penalty debacle/mistreatment. But if they did, I would suggest that they could find sympathy in the dictionary....... it's somewhere between shit and syphilis.

Now, let me give the devil it's due......somewhat. We have blamed SMU for mishaps and/or misdeeds visited on us for the last 50 years or so. But from 1961 until 1988 we have attempted on more than one occasion to change our name to its current one....UNT. For those not familiar with NT history, our status change from College to University took place in 1960, which necessitated an official name change. We had to petition the legislature for their approval, and our first choice was UNT. The bill passed easily through the house but met strong opposition from several senators who threatened to filibuster the bill as written. We had to have a name change so we compromised on NTSU. We tried a couple of more times after that, but were thwarted again. Finally, we went at it again in 1988 and it still almost didn't go through because of some "procedural" roadblocks. But those were overcome at the last minute and the bill was signed by the Govenor. The people involved in all of the threatened filibustering, and road blocking all those years between 1961 and 1988 were UT grads.

The bill was signed by Bill (SMU grad) Clements.

SMU being given the death penalty at that time in the SWC was like being pulled over and arrested for a busted tail light and then watching six drunks drive by. It was and always will be a total joke. Cheating was rampant across the country and SMU lacked the blue blood status and became an easy target. As others have aptly stated, Baylor has dead bodies and raped students on their rap sheet. Penn State covered up child sexual abuse for decades. Lack of institutional control much?