Another thread about how to increase fan engagement (besides WINNING!!)

[aztecskin]

Regarding this: 

• Loosen up media credential ability while we continue to get little coverage. Allow/encourage local Denton high school newspaper/videoproduction/photography organizations to be a part of North Texas game days.

The AD / School do a great job supporting media. I covered all of CUSA for a bit and there are some programs that actively discourage anyone not named ESPN from covering things. NT is great  at encouraging and supporting non-traditional media coverage (blogs, podcasts, small sites, etc) . No complaints. 

[Meangreen Fight]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:56 AM, jtm0097 said:

This is exactly my point, the marketing department/student outreach sucks. They need to do a better job of targeting kids currently in Denton. It seems there are a lot of people in the athletic department that do just the bare minimum and collect a paycheck. 

 

23 hours ago, greenjoe said:

A couple of years ago, my Breakfast Kiwanis Club offered to provide and operate, at no cost to UNT, passenger golf carts to help move, quickly, fans coming to and/or from the stadium.  We would rent the golf carts and simply go back and forth moving as many people as we could.  The Athletic Dept said no.  The catch-all response was “our insurance won’t let us do that.  

 

It’s hard to help when any and all ideas get shot down.  

@greenjoe perfect response to @jtm0097 comment.  Old Denton culture inside the Athletic Department is a cancer that spreads to new employees.  The transition from Wren Baker, Seth Littrell and Conference USA is endemic of that.  I am not even sure who the AD answers to and what kind of power that person is allowed to wield.  I think that is huge part of the problem.  Because during this period of time the school moved like it didn’t have a long term plan bigger than the AD, football head coach and conference we happen to be in/going to.  I think that where Coach Mac may have misjudged this university’s commitment to big long term goals.  
 

Here is where the rubber meets the road; I can’t market free tickets to my friends because when their dismal record over the last 2 decades is brought up in response to my invitation there is very little I can point to except the now not so new Apogee/DATCU stadium.

[keith]

This isn't specifically AD or attendance related, but generally speaks to how tone-deaf UNT can be.  About 4 or 5 years ago, my ATM card needed to be renewed at Wells Fargo.  They have a customization option and one of the categories is/was college and universities.  I took a shot and what do you know UNT was listed along with all the other universities.  Shocker, I know.  It was almost like we finally arrived.   So, I customized my card with the North Texas logo below.  It's not like a lot of other people see this, but I liked it.  Fast forward to a month ago and I get a notice that my card is going to expire and it's time to renew.  I go back into the Wells Fargo design studio, select colleges/universities and UNT is no where to be found.  Since the logo is trademarked, Wells Fargo will not use it for customization without the approval of the trademark holder and apparently we refused or didn't provide approval for its use.  There's protecting your brand and then there's stupidity.  

My ATM card is now customized with a photo of my dog.

 

 

Edited March 25 by keith

[greenjoe]

Cool.  What kind of dog ?

(this is the ultimate off season GMG question)

[MeanGreen22]

The school just hasn’t figured out how to engage a bigger percentage of the student body. Getting them to care while they’re on campus is so important because once they graduate, it’s much harder. For every 10 people I knew while in school, maybe 7 of them watched any college sports and probably 2-3 of them cared about UNT sports. So how do they bridge that gap is the question. 

[Matt from A700]

1 hour ago, MeanGreen22 said:

The school just hasn’t figured out how to engage a bigger percentage of the student body. Getting them to care while they’re on campus is so important because once they graduate, it’s much harder. For every 10 people I knew while in school, maybe 7 of them watched any college sports and probably 2-3 of them cared about UNT sports. So how do they bridge that gap is the question. 

It is crazy how many people I talk to - whether they went to UNT the same time I did, or whether they went to UNT 20 years ago like my boss - who have still never been to a single basketball game.

[keith]

1 hour ago, greenjoe said:

Cool.  What kind of dog ?

(this is the ultimate off season GMG question)

She’s a rescue. According to the DNA test, dominant breeds are beagle, collie, English harrier and indeterminate. 
 

[Matt from A700]

8 hours ago, aztecskin said:

Regarding this: 

• Loosen up media credential ability while we continue to get little coverage. Allow/encourage local Denton high school newspaper/videoproduction/photography organizations to be a part of North Texas game days.

The AD / School do a great job supporting media. I covered all of CUSA for a bit and there are some programs that actively discourage anyone not named ESPN from covering things. NT is great  at encouraging and supporting non-traditional media coverage (blogs, podcasts, small sites, etc) . No complaints. 

I have no problem believing they do for most of the entities that ask. But for a lot of my ideas including this one it's something we just can't wait to happen. We've got to start the dialogue with these high school student organizations.

In my short time organizing group outings at away games, I've found out that most non-art nerds would be interested in attending a game, they just never thought about it, and especially after graduating there's nobody else guiding them to go to a game.

Before the men's basketball game at Rice, I spent the last week before searching UNT alumni on LinkedIn and filtering out the Houston peeps. In that short notice I was able to woo the interest of four parties buying 8 extra tickets, and gained contacts for the future who said they'd be interested in going, but understandably already had plans that weekend.

There was some initial weird feeling before sending messages off to strangers, but that wore off. I had a lot of great conversations. The university needs to be more aggressive in forging relationships with the community in ways that don't seem like they're soley after your money.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 hour ago, MeanGreen22 said:

The school just hasn’t figured out how to engage a bigger percentage of the student body. Getting them to care while they’re on campus is so important because once they graduate, it’s much harder. For every 10 people I knew while in school, maybe 7 of them watched any college sports and probably 2-3 of them cared about UNT sports. So how do they bridge that gap is the question. 

I understand the lack of attendance in football. Too many let downs. Too much inconsistency year to year. 

The disconnect in attendance in basketball is pretty embarrassing. In the last 7 years we are 154-80. That is an average year of 22-11. I blame the students and/or the people that are supposedly doing the outreach to students. If my recollection is accurate, I only recall there being a wave of outreach for the smug game. Every game should have that level of outreach. 

[MeanGreen22]

1 hour ago, Matt from A700 said:

It is crazy how many people I talk to - whether they went to UNT the same time I did, or whether they went to UNT 20 years ago like my boss - who have still never been to a single basketball game.

There is a disgusting amount of people I know that religiously watch their T-shirt school every Saturday but is like pulling teeth to get them to UNT games. Both football and basketball. The excuses are always the same. But it all comes back to the lack of engagement when we were in school. 

[Matt from A700]

52 minutes ago, MeanGreen22 said:

There is a disgusting amount of people I know that religiously watch their T-shirt school every Saturday but is like pulling teeth to get them to UNT games. Both football and basketball. The excuses are always the same. But it all comes back to the lack of engagement when we were in school. 

This is a good reason why we need to stay engaged with Denton ISD at all ages and the surrounding schools. Let's make these kiddos Mean Green T-shirt fans before they're old enough to know what a T-shirt fan is!

I know the women's basketball team has an 11am game that is usually one of the most highest attended of the season due to all the DISD kids they bring out. I don't know if you could do a midday game during the week for any other sport. Perhaps volleyball, but they don't have any trouble filling that high school barn. Possibly soccer and softball, too.

This year in softball, the Tracey Beard Classic was in Denton, but the past two years it's been in Melissa and Celina. Maybe if the tournament is moved back to Melissa, the Friday morning game could be a field trip for one of the grades at MISD. Or make it a Monday-Wednesday tournament playing all day games to expand your reach. Develops a few new fans in Collin County. The capacity appears to be comparable to Lovelace.

[Big Z]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:26 PM, MeanGreen22 said:

There is a disgusting amount of people I know that religiously watch their T-shirt school every Saturday but is like pulling teeth to get them to UNT games. Both football and basketball. The excuses are always the same. But it all comes back to the lack of engagement when we were in school. 

Because they want to be cool and do that for social events. I went to North Texas during the Texas Longhorn and Vince Young time, never seen so many people on campus wear UT gear 

[NT80]

NIL for reluctant fans. 

[Glory to the Green]

What about this for our opponents fans?!?!  😂😂😂

 

 

[SilverEagle]

On 3/24/2024 at 1:28 PM, greenjoe said:

A couple of years ago, my Breakfast Kiwanis Club offered to provide and operate, at no cost to UNT, passenger golf carts to help move, quickly, fans coming to and/or from the stadium.  We would rent the golf carts and simply go back and forth moving as many people as we could.  The Athletic Dept said no.  The catch-all response was “our insurance won’t let us do that.  

 

It’s hard to help when any and all ideas get shot down.  

North Texas has one of the largest (for its size)  entrenched bureaucracies, run by some of the most petty bureaucrats I've ever come into contact with. And I am retired (after over 33 years) from working for one of the most legalistic agencies in the State... Child Protective Services. I have joked many times that I would rather deal with the administration of the FBI and/or Homeland security than the NT bureaucrats. 

When FFR and I were selling t-shirts we attended a meeting with the Athletic Department to discuss some ideas for sports gear. We had just engaged a flag/banner company to make NT battle flags for sale and we had a sample for all the athletic department staff to look over. Well, one of the people at the table was a petty bureaucrat that I had not ever met, but FFR knew him. Almost from the day that the battle flag had been created (thank you drex) this pin head declared that it was illegal to produce such a thing. He almost single handedly shot down the use of it by his petty rantings. Well, FFR anticipated that he would be there harping about the flag, so he contacted a staff attorney at North Texas and ran this by him. The attorney said that there was no such law, and that North Texas could wave it's green Texas Battle flag all it wanted. The attorney gave permission for Rick to quote him on that at our meeting. Well, when the time came for us to present a sample of the battle flag this pin head didn't waste a moment. He conjured up his most dismissive voice and said "well, I can tell you right off what's wrong with this product.....it's against the law to produce it". FFR then proceeded to tell everyone at the table that that was wrong, and said that the NT attorney, whose name he gave, said so. The aforementioned pin head then had to finally shut up about it.......but very grudgingly. 

But the most annoying thing about it was that NOT ONE PERSON sitting at the table from the athletic department ever uttered one word of descent to this pin head. Not one question like "did you check with our attorneys about that? or "where did you get your information about that?" Had it not been for FFR's due diligence, they, (including Rick V.), would have all sat there and let him shoot the battle flag down.

This is how things got done, or not done, back in the day. And from greenjoe's own experience, it looks like things haven't changed much.

 

 

Edited April 2 by SilverEagle

[NT80]

1 hour ago, SilverEagle said:

North Texas has one of the largest (for its size)  entrenched bureaucracies, run by some of the most petty bureaucrats I've ever come into contact with. And I am retired (after over 33 years) from working for one of the most legalistic agencies in the State... Child Protective Services. I have joked many times that I would rather deal with the administration of the FBI and/or Homeland security than the NT bureaucrats. 

When FFR and I were selling t-shirts we attended a meeting with the Athletic Department to discuss some ideas for sports gear. We had just engaged a flag/banner company to make NT battle flags for sale and we had a sample for all the athletic department staff to look over. Well, one of the people at the table was a petty bureaucrat that I had not ever met, but FFR knew him. Almost from the day that the battle flag had been created (thank you drex) this pin head declared that it was illegal to produce such a thing. He almost single handedly shot down the use of it by his petty rantings. Well, FFR anticipated that he would be there harping about the flag, so he contacted a staff attorney at North Texas and ran this by him. The attorney said that there was no such law, and that North Texas could wave it's green Texas Battle flag all it wanted. The attorney gave permission for Rick to quote him on that at our meeting. Well, when the time came for us to present a sample of the battle flag this pin head didn't waste a moment. He conjured up his most dismissive voice and said "well, I can tell you right off what's wrong with this product.....it's against the law to produce it". FFR then proceeded to tell everyone at the table that that was wrong, and said that the NT attorney, whose name he gave, said so. The aforementioned pin head then had to finally shut up about it.......but very grudgingly. 

But the most annoying thing about it was that NOT ONE PERSON sitting at the table from the athletic department ever uttered one word of descent to this pin head. Not one question like "did you check with our attorneys about that? or "where did you get your information about that?" Had it not been for FFR's due diligence, they, including Rick V.,  would have all sat there and let him shoot the battle flag down.

This is how things got done, or not done, back in the day. And from greenjoe's own experience, it looks like things haven't changed much.

 

 

I never really thought about administrative people trying to derail their own entity until I tried to donate some NT athletic items many years ago to the department.  I had too much stuff overall and some things I knew the department didn't have on display for fans to see, like 2 flying worm helmets, ticket and program to the Hayden Fry Tennessee football win, SLC Championship ring, etc.

I talked with an asst or assoc AD back under RV, forgot his name now, and described some of what I had and showed him some of the more unique items.  But he said they get things from estates or families they don't need or have space for.   I said I wouldn't donate things if you're just going to trash them.  He continued, when you die, we'll get them anyway.  Your wife will bring all your NT items to us and most of it we'll have to get rid of.  I was like shocked, that they didn't value some historic things, things that made the department and school what it had become athletically.   They could easily auction excess or duplicate items to fans that might want them and raise $ for the department.

Luckily I held back some items, and they used a few items in display cases in the hallway of the Suite Level of the new  stadium back then.  But most non-Suite fans can never see them up there if they don't have access.  The one helmet I did leave them they have used in info about the Mean Green...

https://meangreensports.com/news/2020/9/17/general-visual-history-of-the-flying-worm

[TheColonyEagle]

I know that we're supposed to figure out how to get fans engaged without just winning.....but....

The fans sure seemed engaged when we came back to largest crowd ever at Apogee 4-0 with an SEC road win under our belt, knocking on the top 25. This was against a CUSA team. And we blew it. 

So no...winning by itself isn't the only thing, but taking advantage of what comes along with the winning is the key. The most important Marketing department at UNT is the head football coach. 

I don't know why people don't see this in its simplicity but it really is simple. Win, get ranked, get national attention...then people will engage. 

We have been in this constant state of putting lipstick on this pig and I don't care who you hire, who you talk to, how you market, who in the administration we talk to, who in the city of Denton you engage......this program will never in a million years have any engagement until it sees Boise/UCF/Houston national attention type success. There's nothing more to talk about.

11-1, 12-0, NY6 Bowl, Knock on the door of the playoff.

That's what it will take. Period

And if the expectation is anything less than that, then everything else that happens is a waste of money with no ROI.

Why would any fan, art student, business student, Denton resident, Argyle resident, Lewisville resident, former student, alumni, etc. be interested in anything regarding this football program if they're 7-5 every year. No one is going to care no matter what package you put on it.

No offense to the OP....good ideas, but go 7-5 and then implement that entire list and tell me that people will still engage.

[UNTLifer]

Fan Engagement.  In the era of NIL, the players aren't even committed to the school.  All about me.

[Mrs. Esterhouse]

4 hours ago, NT80 said:

I never really thought about administrative people trying to derail their own entity until I tried to donate some NT athletic items many years ago to the department.  I had too much stuff overall and some things I knew the department didn't have on display for fans to see, like 2 flying worm helmets, ticket and program to the Hayden Fry Tennessee football win, SLC Championship ring, etc.

I talked with an asst or assoc AD back under RV, forgot his name now, and described some of what I had and showed him some of the more unique items.  But he said they get things from estates or families they don't need or have space for.   I said I wouldn't donate things if you're just going to trash them.  He continued, when you die, we'll get them anyway.  Your wife will bring all your NT items to us and most of it we'll have to get rid of.  I was like shocked, that they didn't value some historic things, things that made the department and school what it had become athletically.   They could easily auction excess or duplicate items to fans that might want them and raise $ for the department.

Luckily I held back some items, and they used a few items in display cases in the hallway of the Suite Level of the new  stadium back then.  But most non-Suite fans can never see them up there if they don't have access.  The one helmet I did leave them they have used in info about the Mean Green...

https://meangreensports.com/news/2020/9/17/general-visual-history-of-the-flying-worm

Consider donating to UNT Libraries. They even have a University Archivist and would likely love to have your items in the collection. 

[Mrs. Esterhouse]

There definitely needs to be more done to reach out to students, faculty and staff. I've been on campus for a long time and for most of those years, I've hardly seen any advertisements on campus promoting upcoming games in any sport. They need to get coaches and players out on campus promoting the games. Have them walking around talking to students, handing out freebies and showing them how to get tickets. You could even have them giving out free general admission tickets to games. Have pep rally type events in the Union during lunch time. Get the coaches and athletes in the dorms and the greek houses. Make it easier for people to get tickets. I love the idea of having a ticket office in the Union or somewhere on the main campus. Offer more free tickets or discounts to faculty and staff. There are over 40,000 students and a ton of faculty/staff. If we could do more to get even a fraction of those people engaged and at games, it would be amazing. 

[SilverEagle]

19 hours ago, NT80 said:

 

I talked with an asst or assoc AD back under RV, forgot his name now, and described some of what I had and showed him some of the more unique items.  But he said they get things from estates or families they don't need or have space for.   I said I wouldn't donate things if you're just going to trash them.  He continued, when you die, we'll get them anyway.  Your wife will bring all your NT items to us and most of it we'll have to get rid of.  I was like shocked, that they didn't value some historic things, things that made the department and school what it had become athletically.   They could easily auction excess or duplicate items to fans that might want them and raise $ for the department.

 

80, I'll have to say that I'm not shocked at all. This is what happens when a sports department is being run by people who never had any connection with North Texas. And their only current connection is their paycheck. My guess is that as long as they check every box on their (IMHO)  minimalist job description, they aren't going to do ONE THING past it.

You know who (IMHO) has been the best person ever at NT that was in charge of promotions? That would be drex. Guess where he got his degree?  That would be NT.

[greenminer]

I refuse to buy into this convo as if every successful AD is only successful because they hire their graduates.

we have sucked historically, and hiring UNT grads may help, but can we not talk like it will only work if we hire UNT grads? If I got hired at Georgia, I would still work to build/nurture their Georgia fanbase. I expect the same when we hire people to come to Denton.

Edited April 2 by greenminer

[NT80]

22 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

80, I'll have to say that I'm not shocked at all. This is what happens when a sports department is being run by people who never had any connection with North Texas. And their only current connection is their paycheck. My guess is that as long as they check every box on their (IMHO)  minimalist job description, they aren't going to do ONE THING past it.

You know who (IMHO) has been the best person ever at NT that was in charge of promotions? That would be drex. Guess where he got his degree?  That would be NT.

Agree.  Most Athletic department administrators, staff, and coaches are just here for the paycheck and building their resume then off to the next school...rah!   Same for most professors and school admins. 

School traditions, history and artifacts mean little to them.  Sadly, many school Athletes have become the same way now.  The only long-time supporters and fans are usually ones that were fans while attending NT or area citizens that came for the game entertainment and formed a bond.   

[NT80]

3 minutes ago, greenminer said:

If I got hired at Georgia, I would still work to build/nurture their Georgia alumni relationships. I expect the same when we hire people to come to Denton.

Yes, you would work to do your paid job and try to do it well.  But the back of your mind would be on advancing your career and paycheck with your next job you will soon apply for.  You would not be thinking of being a life-long fan of Georgia, visiting their message boards, nor going out of you job's way to support the other fans or school.

[SilverEagle]

30 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I refuse to buy into this convo as if every successful AD is only successful because they hire their graduates.

we have sucked historically, and hiring UNT grads may help, but can we not talk like it will only work if we hire UNT grads? If I got hired at Georgia, I would still work to build/nurture their Georgia fanbase. I expect the same when we hire people to come to Denton.

You know gm, I (in theory) agree with you. One of my old HS band buddies who was on a music scholarship @ NT , were "catching up" one time at a North Texas homecoming game. He said that he would like to eventually teach at NT, but their policy was that he must get a masters and/or PhD from another school before he could return to teach at NT.  

Perhaps the same policy could be put in place for people hired to be in charge of fan and student engagement. Someone who got their bachelor's at NT but their masters from a school that had significant fan/student involvement...like A$M....or OU/OSU.....or even TCU. Now there is a school that holds on to old traditions........RIFF RAM!