Mean Green mid-season grades (2023-24)

[MeanGreenZen]

We are about halfway through the basketball year and since I love to stand in judgement of others, here are my mid-season grades for the Mean Green: 

WHO HAS EXCEEDED EXPECTATIONS? 

Ross Hodge (Grade: A+)

You never want to be the guy after the guy, but Ross Hodge might have been THE GUY all along. 

The defensive architect behind Grant McCasland’s legendary run as Mean Green head coach, Hodge has taken over the rising program and can anyone really tell a difference? 

Hodge is a couple of missed shots and an injury away from having this team ranked in the Top 25. The defense is as good as ever and we are in contention to win an upgraded conference. 

Ross is not perfect. He allegedly encouraged Tylor Perry to chase the $$$ in the transfer portal. WTF?!! But he hit a home run retaining Rubin and Scott: And adding Edwards, Noland and Allen in his first recruiting class has been just as impactful. 

His inability to develop Sissoko or add another player who can score in the paint could end up prematurely ending our season, but there is still time to figure that out. 

Hodge is a hell of a college basketball coach and I am grateful we have him. 

 

CJ Noland (Grade: A)

Offensively, Noland is big, strong and can handle the basketball. Rubin’s injury would have sunk this team without Noland. 

He’s one of the few players on this roster who can put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. If Noland can keep attacking the basket and improve his finishing (he seems to lack confidence, but shouldn’t) then North Texas could see the Round of 32. 

Defensively, Noland has fast hands and creates chaos in opponents’ passing lanes. He’s one of the best overall defenders in the conference.

 

Jason Edwards (Grade: A-)

Edwards has given us everything we could have asked of from a JUCO scorer. Sure, he plays out of control at times and is much better going to his right than his left. But this guy has courage, gets after it and would be much more effective if North Texas had another scoring threat or any kind of inside game to give him space to operate. Even with all the energy he has to output on offense, he is not a defensive liability and for a little guy, he fights for rebounds. 

 

Robert Allen (Grade: B+)

Allen is an undersized big who rebounds very well and can score in the post when he isn’t matched up against a giant. He’s not big enough to be a consistent offensive force or an elite defensive presence. But as a backup big? He’s been better than our starter.

 

WHO HAS PERFORMED AS EXPECTED? 

Aaron Scott (Grade: A)

Scott has PROVEN that he can be the third-best player on a championship team. But can a team win a championship with him as its best player? The last half of this season is his opportunity to prove that. 

Scott is a an amazing glue guy with hustle and is a borderline 3&D NBA prospect who specializes in putbacks. Can he put the ball on the floor and create his own shot? Well, North Texas needs him to and the answer so far is SOMETIMES…

Can he make the leap from great player to STAR? He hasn’t yet, but I’m expecting him to. 

 

Rubin Jones (Grade: A) 

The only reason Rubin doesn’t get an A+ is because he’s missed so much time with injury. 

This guy is about to become the winningest player in program history and he has earned it. 

He’s so smooth and cool with the ball in his hands. He makes good decisions, can create his own shot and shoot the 3. We needed him to increase his scoring this season and he has DOUBLED his scoring average while continuing to make the case that he is the best defensive guard in the conference. We are watching a Mean Green Hall-of-Famer. 

 

Rondel Walker (Grade: B)

I don’t like these unlimited transfer rules, but if it has to be this way, we might as well take advantage of it and Rondell Walker has been a much-needed boost to this roster. He is a solid all around player who can do a little bit of everything and is an especially good defender. Hodge needs to find a way to keep getting him minutes when Rubin and Buggs return. 

 

WHO HAS UNDERPERFORMED? 

Moulaye Sissoko (Grade: C-)  

For a guy who might be the most impressive looking specimen in college basketball (He’s 6’9 and has the thighs of Earl Campbell!) Sissoko sure has disappointed. 

Offensively, he deserves a grade of F for his lack of any post-up game or shooting touch, but he seems to try on defense and he is a good rebounder so that bumps his overall grade to passing. 

I will always be grateful to Sissoko for stepping up so ably when Abou quit on the team during the NIT run, but it just seems like the guy will forever be someone who doesn’t reach his potential. Prove me wrong, Moulaye. I dare you. 

 

Matthew Stone (Grade: C-)

Stone plays hard and is effective on defense. Offensively, he is so scared to shoot and so bad at it when he does that the other team doesn’t even have to cover him and if he is on the floor with Sissoko then the other team can play 5 on 3, which hasn’t worked out well for us much. 

 

John Buggs III (Grade: C)

Buggs was famously the second-best shooter in the conference last season. He’s shown an ability to hit 3’s for us but hasn’t gotten enough opportunities due to injury and the Mean Green’s struggle to attack the paint which keeps defenders glued to Buggs on the perimeter. 

Buggs is a willing defender despite a lack of elite athleticism. Still, his potential emergence when he returns from injury could propel this team into the postseason. 

 

OTHERS

Alex Cotton (Grade: Incomplete)

Cotton missed almost his entire senior season of high school to injury. He returned for the playoffs and lead his team on a deep run. 

He’s not a big scorer, so I’m not sure he has the skill set to impact our team this season (although he can in the future if he has the character to stay and try). 

Cotton is one inch taller than Stone and five pounds lighter. Could he take Stone’s minutes and provide similar defensive toughness with a little better offense? I would be interested in finding out. 

 

Mean Green Maniacs (Grade: A++) 

The students who attend our games are loud, visible and funny. And they make a big difference in the atmosphere and the outcome of games. I expect this group to keep growing. 

 

The Rest of Student Section (Grade: F-) 

No excuses. This is a winning product. The game presentation is solid. It is super fun to be a student and attend a college basketball game. Get your butts to the game and support this team. You are the only thing missing.

 

Tony DeSousa (Grade A+)

He sits in the front row at center court and no one cheers harder for the Mean Green, boos the opponents louder or hold the refs more accountable. We need a couple thousand more like him. 

 

Overall Team (Grade: A)

North Texas had to replace the most successful head coach in program history along with almost all of its scoring from last season. 

And so far? Won almost twice as many as we’ve lost, had an amazing last-second win and are in the hunt for the conference championship. 

[Andrew]

8 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Tony DeSousa (Grade A+)

He sits in the front row at center court and no one cheers harder for the Mean Green, boos the opponents louder or hold the refs more accountable. We need a couple thousand more like him. 

Who…… 🤷🏼‍♂️🤣🤣🤣

[Big Z]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

Who…… 🤷🏼‍♂️🤣🤣🤣

The guy that follows the refs out to their cars after the game  

[Big Z]

10 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

We are about halfway through the basketball year and since I love to stand in judgement of others, here are my mid-season grades for the Mean Green: 

WHO HAS EXCEEDED EXPECTATIONS? 

Ross Hodge (Grade: A+)

You never want to be the guy after the guy, but Ross Hodge might have been THE GUY all along. 

The defensive architect behind Grant McCasland’s legendary run as Mean Green head coach, Hodge has taken over the rising program and can anyone really tell a difference? 

Hodge is a couple of missed shots and an injury away from having this team ranked in the Top 25. The defense is as good as ever and we are in contention to win an upgraded conference. 

Ross is not perfect. He allegedly encouraged Tylor Perry to chase the $$$ in the transfer portal. WTF?!! But he hit a home run retaining Rubin and Scott: And adding Edwards, Noland and Allen in his first recruiting class has been just as impactful. 

His inability to develop Sissoko or add another player who can score in the paint could end up prematurely ending our season, but there is still time to figure that out. 

Hodge is a hell of a college basketball coach and I am grateful we have him. 

 

CJ Noland (Grade: A)

Offensively, Noland is big, strong and can handle the basketball. Rubin’s injury would have sunk this team without Noland. 

He’s one of the few players on this roster who can put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. If Noland can keep attacking the basket and improve his finishing (he seems to lack confidence, but shouldn’t) then North Texas could see the Round of 32. 

Defensively, Noland has fast hands and creates chaos in opponents’ passing lanes. He’s one of the best overall defenders in the conference.

 

Jason Edwards (Grade: A-)

Edwards has given us everything we could have asked of from a JUCO scorer. Sure, he plays out of control at times and is much better going to his right than his left. But this guy has courage, gets after it and would be much more effective if North Texas had another scoring threat or any kind of inside game to give him space to operate. Even with all the energy he has to output on offense, he is not a defensive liability and for a little guy, he fights for rebounds. 

 

Robert Allen (Grade: B+)

Allen is an undersized big who rebounds very well and can score in the post when he isn’t matched up against a giant. He’s not big enough to be a consistent offensive force or an elite defensive presence. But as a backup big? He’s been better than our starter.

 

WHO HAS PERFORMED AS EXPECTED? 

Aaron Scott (Grade: A)

Scott has PROVEN that he can be the third-best player on a championship team. But can a team win a championship with him as its best player? The last half of this season is his opportunity to prove that. 

Scott is a an amazing glue guy with hustle and is a borderline 3&D NBA prospect who specializes in putbacks. Can he put the ball on the floor and create his own shot? Well, North Texas needs him to and the answer so far is SOMETIMES…

Can he make the leap from great player to STAR? He hasn’t yet, but I’m expecting him to. 

 

Rubin Jones (Grade: A) 

The only reason Rubin doesn’t get an A+ is because he’s missed so much time with injury. 

This guy is about to become the winningest player in program history and he has earned it. 

He’s so smooth and cool with the ball in his hands. He makes good decisions, can create his own shot and shoot the 3. We needed him to increase his scoring this season and he has DOUBLED his scoring average while continuing to make the case that he is the best defensive guard in the conference. We are watching a Mean Green Hall-of-Famer. 

 

Rondel Walker (Grade: B)

I don’t like these unlimited transfer rules, but if it has to be this way, we might as well take advantage of it and Rondell Walker has been a much-needed boost to this roster. He is a solid all around player who can do a little bit of everything and is an especially good defender. Hodge needs to find a way to keep getting him minutes when Rubin and Buggs return. 

 

WHO HAS UNDERPERFORMED? 

Moulaye Sissoko (Grade: C-)  

For a guy who might be the most impressive looking specimen in college basketball (He’s 6’9 and has the thighs of Earl Campbell!) Sissoko sure has disappointed. 

Offensively, he deserves a grade of F for his lack of any post-up game or shooting touch, but he seems to try on defense and he is a good rebounder so that bumps his overall grade to passing. 

I will always be grateful to Sissoko for stepping up so ably when Abou quit on the team during the NIT run, but it just seems like the guy will forever be someone who doesn’t reach his potential. Prove me wrong, Moulaye. I dare you. 

 

Matthew Stone (Grade: C-)

Stone plays hard and is effective on defense. Offensively, he is so scared to shoot and so bad at it when he does that the other team doesn’t even have to cover him and if he is on the floor with Sissoko then the other team can play 5 on 3, which hasn’t worked out well for us much. 

 

John Buggs III (Grade: C)

Buggs was famously the second-best shooter in the conference last season. He’s shown an ability to hit 3’s for us but hasn’t gotten enough opportunities due to injury and the Mean Green’s struggle to attack the paint which keeps defenders glued to Buggs on the perimeter. 

Buggs is a willing defender despite a lack of elite athleticism. Still, his potential emergence when he returns from injury could propel this team into the postseason. 

 

OTHERS

Alex Cotton (Grade: Incomplete)

Cotton missed almost his entire senior season of high school to injury. He returned for the playoffs and lead his team on a deep run. 

He’s not a big scorer, so I’m not sure he has the skill set to impact our team this season (although he can in the future if he has the character to stay and try). 

Cotton is one inch taller than Stone and five pounds lighter. Could he take Stone’s minutes and provide similar defensive toughness with a little better offense? I would be interested in finding out. 

 

Mean Green Maniacs (Grade: A++) 

The students who attend our games are loud, visible and funny. And they make a big difference in the atmosphere and the outcome of games. I expect this group to keep growing. 

 

The Rest of Student Section (Grade: F-) 

No excuses. This is a winning product. The game presentation is solid. It is super fun to be a student and attend a college basketball game. Get your butts to the game and support this team. You are the only thing missing.

 

Tony DeSousa (Grade A+)

He sits in the front row at center court and no one cheers harder for the Mean Green, boos the opponents louder or hold the refs more accountable. We need a couple thousand more like him. 

 

Overall Team (Grade: A)

North Texas had to replace the most successful head coach in program history along with almost all of its scoring from last season. 

And so far? Won almost twice as many as we’ve lost, had an amazing last-second win and are in the hunt for the conference championship. 

Sissoko and Stone both are a D- 

These two need to step up or sit down 

[greenminer]

I almost never give an A+.  Implies there is no room for improvement.

I'd give Hodge an A-.  We have roster/depth issues, and that Fordham loss sucks.

I still think the world of him and our potential.

[UNTLifer]

4 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I almost never give an A+.  Implies there is no room for improvement.

I'd give Hodge an A-.  We have roster/depth issues, and that Fordham loss sucks.

I still think the world of him and our potential.

Prior to Jones and Buggs going down, we were running 9 deep.  Not sure I agree with depth issues. 

Sissoko needs to rebound and then go right back up and strong.

I would give Cotton some of Stone's minutes and use Moore for 8-10 minutes to spell our backcourt.  If they contribute, let them earn more minutes.

 

[greenminer]

25 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Prior to Jones and Buggs going down, we were running 9 deep.  Not sure I agree with depth issues. 

More than just body count.  I guess I wasn't clear. 

The lack of offense when Edwards is off.  The inability to find anyone to take Stone's minutes.  And, I know we all love Rubin, but we could potentially be even better (and find an offensive identity) if we had a true PG.

[GrandGreen]

Some excellent points, but what is your grading system?  Those grade to me are very high.  An "A" player to me should be at all conference first or second team level.   However, I do agree with your exceeding expectations list.    

Also, you are way off on Stone;  Stone has the second best fg% on the team at 58.5& only behind Sissoko at 62.5%.  He is also the third at 3 point percentage at 35% behind only Scott and Buggs.  It anything, Stone is not shooting enough.  He is also a better than average defender, or have you noticed he is usually matched up against much bigger players.  

I don't think Scott is having as good a year as many thought he could be.   He is probably the best player on the team, but is not at the all star level many were predicting. 

Buggs has not underperformed, he is injured; a completely different factor.

Sissoko has disappointed based on his play in the NIT last year, we all hoped we would see that player from now on; but it has not yet happened.  I think some of that maybe because of the offensive game that Hodge wants to run.  The old feed the post offense has just about disappeared.  

 

Edited January 23 by GrandGreen

[Censored by Laurie]

9 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Some excellent points, but what is your grading system?  Those grade to me are very high.  An "A" player to me should be at all conference first or second team level.   However, I do agree with your exceeding expectations list.    

Also, you are way off on Stone;  Stone has the second best fg% on the team at 58.5& only behind Sissoko at 62.5%.  He is also the third at 3 point percentage at 35% behind only Scott and Buggs.  It anything, Stone is not shooting enough.  He is also a better than average defender, or have you noticed he is usually matched up against much bigger players.  

I don't think Scott is having as good a year as many thought he could be.   He is probably the best player on the team, but is not at the all star level many were predicting. 

Buggs has not underperformed, he is injured; a completely different factor.

Sissoko has disappointed based on his play in the NIT last year, we all hoped we would see that player from now own; but it has not yet happened.  I think some of that maybe because of the offensive game that Hodge wants to run.  The old feed the post offense has just about disappeared.  

 

Stone's plus-percentage games have all come against inferior competition...LSUS, Towson, MVSU, Omaha, Angelo State...5 games we won by an average of nearly 24 points. 

Since Boise on 12/5...9 games v. D1 competition...he is 1-for-9 from the field, all of which were 3 point attempts. In the Charlotte game, he was terrified of the ball and was a liability on defense...he had a terrible foul on the put-back/shot-clock play, at least twice missed boards he was 100% favored for. all our runs were with Walker on the floor. 

I get that he's here and clearly he's going to continue to get minutes, especially with the current injuries...but if we're full-strength and not down to basically an 8 man rotation then I haver questions about Hodge's talent assessment and if Cotton really isn't any better on either end, then I have questions about our recruiting. 

and I'm so sick of the "he tries hard" tag. like, do the other 11 scholarship players not? you don't make a division 1 roster unless you try hard. 

[cousin oliver]

Man I love your list.   I really can't argue with any of it. I was hoping you would have graded Christian that is all I had.

[untbowler]

Sorry but Hodge does not get an A+, I would grade more of a B. He has lost to many close games, no good wins. Team has way to many scoring slumps

[Big Z]

14 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

Stone's plus-percentage games have all come against inferior competition...LSUS, Towson, MVSU, Omaha, Angelo State...5 games we won by an average of nearly 24 points. 

Since Boise on 12/5...9 games v. D1 competition...he is 1-for-9 from the field, all of which were 3 point attempts. In the Charlotte game, he was terrified of the ball and was a liability on defense...he had a terrible foul on the put-back/shot-clock play, at least twice missed boards he was 100% favored for. all our runs were with Walker on the floor. 

I get that he's here and clearly he's going to continue to get minutes, especially with the current injuries...but if we're full-strength and not down to basically an 8 man rotation then I haver questions about Hodge's talent assessment and if Cotton really isn't any better on either end, then I have questions about our recruiting. 

and I'm so sick of the "he tries hard" tag. like, do the other 11 scholarship players not? you don't make a division 1 roster unless you try hard. 

Bingo

[GrandGreen]

3 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

Stone's plus-percentage games have all come against inferior competition...LSUS, Towson, MVSU, Omaha, Angelo State...5 games we won by an average of nearly 24 points. 

Since Boise on 12/5...9 games v. D1 competition...he is 1-for-9 from the field, all of which were 3 point attempts. In the Charlotte game, he was terrified of the ball and was a liability on defense...he had a terrible foul on the put-back/shot-clock play, at least twice missed boards he was 100% favored for. all our runs were with Walker on the floor. 

I get that he's here and clearly he's going to continue to get minutes, especially with the current injuries...but if we're full-strength and not down to basically an 8 man rotation then I haver questions about Hodge's talent assessment and if Cotton really isn't any better on either end, then I have questions about our recruiting. 

and I'm so sick of the "he tries hard" tag. like, do the other 11 scholarship players not? you don't make a division 1 roster unless you try hard. 

I am not defending Stone, other than just looking at the stats.

As to his points coming against inferior competition, yes; but you have to be in the game to score.   Now, he is seeing extended time and I think started one or two games.   

Not sure what the tries hard comment is about.  He is on the team and I hope he and all the other players do well.  

 

[Cooley]

4 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

Stone's plus-percentage games have all come against inferior competition...LSUS, Towson, MVSU, Omaha, Angelo State...5 games we won by an average of nearly 24 points. 

Since Boise on 12/5...9 games v. D1 competition...he is 1-for-9 from the field, all of which were 3 point attempts. In the Charlotte game, he was terrified of the ball and was a liability on defense...he had a terrible foul on the put-back/shot-clock play, at least twice missed boards he was 100% favored for. all our runs were with Walker on the floor. 

I get that he's here and clearly he's going to continue to get minutes, especially with the current injuries...but if we're full-strength and not down to basically an 8 man rotation then I haver questions about Hodge's talent assessment and if Cotton really isn't any better on either end, then I have questions about our recruiting. 

and I'm so sick of the "he tries hard" tag. like, do the other 11 scholarship players not? you don't make a division 1 roster unless you try hard. 

1000% percent. Stone is an absolute liability on offense. Who should have a better shooting percentage? Someone who is wide open on shots or someone with contested shots. On a very good team, he's a bench player. The bar is so low for him that we seem to be happy when he gives us anything. (D+). 

 

[Censored by Laurie]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

I am not defending Stone, other than just looking at the stats.

As to his points coming against inferior competition, yes; but you have to be in the game to score.   Now, he is seeing extended time and I think started one or two games.   

Not sure what the tries hard comment is about.  He is on the team and I hope he and all the other players do well.  

 

the "try hard" wasn't directed at you directly. it was in the OG post and it's cropped up sooooo much as a defense for his minutes. 

he's been averaging 15 minutes a night in the 9 D1 games since Boise. 133 minutes to be exact. he's taken 9 shots in 133 minutes. 

in his season high against Temple...25 minutes...he logged a stat line of 0 points on 0-0FG, 0-0FT, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 1 foul. it's hard to not accidentally end up with a few rebounds in 25 minutes. he's at best a passenger when he's on the floor, at worst a liability on both ends. 

if this is honestly giving more than what either Cotton or Moore can, then we have recruited poorly

[GrandGreen]

33 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

the "try hard" wasn't directed at you directly. it was in the OG post and it's cropped up sooooo much as a defense for his minutes. 

he's been averaging 15 minutes a night in the 9 D1 games since Boise. 133 minutes to be exact. he's taken 9 shots in 133 minutes. 

in his season high against Temple...25 minutes...he logged a stat line of 0 points on 0-0FG, 0-0FT, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 1 foul. it's hard to not accidentally end up with a few rebounds in 25 minutes. he's at best a passenger when he's on the floor, at worst a liability on both ends. 

if this is honestly giving more than what either Cotton or Moore can, then we have recruited poorly

My guess is that he provides much more on defense than the other named choices.  No way to prove, other than way else would Hodge use Stone in lieu of other options. 

[Censored by Laurie]

also, to be very clear since I know so much of what I've written the last few days has been negative...I like Hodge, I love what Grant has put in place, I'm still bullish on the direction of this program, and I recognize that progress isn't linear especially in what should best be considered by most metrics a "rebuilding year". 

that said, we're still talking about a lot of the same warts that we have for the the last 3 or 4 seasons. 

i like a tight rotation...but when you're playing 8 purely out of necessity because there are 3-4 empty scholarships on the roster (anyone wanna tell me their favorite Bryce Zephir or Rasheed Browne memory?) there's an issue in recruiting. 

the offense is stagnant. really there hasn't been a real discernible system here for some time, but we had individual players like TP and Javion plus a "plan B" in a Bell, Kai or Abou post back down. I don't buy "tired legs" v. Charlotte so much as I do it was all individual creation, awful ball movement and no "plan B" against a good D (a pin-down/back-cut...or why we can't get Scott iso either facing or posting from around 15-18 feet is beyond me)

all that...and the defense just isn't as good this year. Kai, Eady, Martinez, Abou were plus defenders. 

we're fresh off maybe the best moment in program history. I'm fine with some regression given all factors. but these feel like things that need to be cleaned up if this program wants to keep stepping forward. 

[NT80]

I would give Hodge a B.  We beat the cupcakes and probably lost a game or two we shouldn't have.  Can't prevent injuries but can have a better bench ready for such a situation.  It makes no sense to have cheerleaders in team uniforms sitting idle on the bench every game.  Every player was signed intentionally and must have one small thing they can do well? Even if it gives a starter only a 1 minute break...put them in the game for that skill.

[Big Z]

Stone would probably do well in NAIA or maybe on a D2/D3 team. 

He was recruited out of high school as a shooter and that hasn't been the case since his time here at UNT. 

[MrAlien]

Right now I would give Hodge a B- I think he did a good job building and recruiting this team.  There is a lot of individual talent, and they still haven't quite come together but they are on the right path.  On the defensive side of the ball they are as good as we expected.  However on the offensive side, they do seem a bit sloppy at times, they are not very good at in bounding the ball under heavy pressure, and sometimes struggle to advance the ball out of the back court. 

 

[NT80]

51 minutes ago, MrAlien said:

Right now I would give Hodge a B- I think he did a good job building and recruiting this team.  There is a lot of individual talent, and they still haven't quite come together but they are on the right path.  On the defensive side of the ball they are as good as we expected.  However on the offensive side, they do seem a bit sloppy at times, they are not very good at in bounding the ball under heavy pressure, and sometimes struggle to advance the ball out of the back court. 

 

Agree.  Hodge is obviously a defensive coach, and it shows, but maybe he needs a new offensive coordinator?  

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

offensive coordinator?  

Someone trying to bring football titles into the bball world?

[NT80]

6 hours ago, greenminer said:

Someone trying to bring football titles into the bball world?

We wanna be a football school, right? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

Stone is an F in my book, his production rate is around 4% in an average of 18.5 minutes per game. He plays hot potato with the ball.

[Big Z]

21 minutes ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Stone is an F in my book, his production rate is around 4% in an average of 18.5 minutes per game. He plays hot potato with the ball.

Agree - what's the point of playing 4 against 5 out there